Re: [HOT] Gentle grump
I think that radomised controlled trials might well be useful. Perhaps we could see which projects are successful and pick out those that the mappers are more satisfied with but only on the premise that happy mappers are less likely to drop out. I haven't expressed that well but I seethe potential for the technique within HOT. Cheerio John On 9 March 2015 at 04:56, Hazel hl...@srcf.net wrote: Hello, all, I think this is a really good point. Anything that helps data quality gets my vote, too. Why not make the interface deliberately flexible and run controlled trials, as described here? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/test-learn-adapt- developing-public-policy-with-randomised-controlled-trials Accuracy, speed, and volunteer retention are quantifiable. Are there any other characteristics people want? All the best, Hazel On 2015-03-08 23:05, john whelan wrote: I would much prefer to see an officially approved method. People can give more thought to it but the basic idea of a workflow for simple tasks using JOSM I think is good. JOSM is easier than some people it credit for but more to the point we get less area=yes instead of buildings=yes, highways that almost meet, and duplicate buildings and anything that helps data quality get my vote. Cheerio John On 8 March 2015 at 18:51, althio althio.fo...@gmail.com wrote: John, Ray, I think the quick start guide is a very neat idea. I would need to try the workflow and a few variations for myself. For the time being I only have reservations about the trick upload-and-cancel. It would be IMO simpler and better to guide people to use consciously validation instead of faking an upload. (Validation window and/or Shift+V) I would say this particular aspect of the workflow is not intended for beginners (and idiots) because it is error-prone. (What if I am still trying to figure out what needs to be mapped? I am a beginner and do not know or understand the differences between projects and their instructions... What if I upload bad data? I am an idiot...) I think you must learn to walk before you can run. This kind of tricks is for people who want to map faster, understand the pros and cons, the purpose and risks. Anyway John, I fully agree your post is a nice starting point for this kind of guide with an approved and proposed workflow for simple tasks. Thank you Nick for safekeeping the idea. althio On Mar 7, 2015 8:43 AM, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org wrote: John - Wow. That was actually an amazing help. I am not sure how adding a plugin can be made intuitive for someone doing it the first time without this level of detail. I also think part of my problem is going from slippy maps, like what we have been using on the web for years, and the iPhone and so on, to JOSM. The navigation is ... different. I guess control-arrow makes sense for moving in the map, but I seem to keep looking for a grab tool of some kind. My hands know slippy maps. And your hit-update-but-dont workflow is brilliant, but the fact that it has to be done that way, or is easier done that way Well, it suggests something is off, but I do not know what. We will see. I think that, at this point, I can go to the JOSM resources and get where I need to go. It is certainly daunting at first but, OMG, for buildings, JOSM is fantastic. Well, onward and upward. - ray On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:30:59 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Right the basic idiot guide. First write down your OSM userid and password. For task 917 we only care about highways, settlements and buildings. Buildings if only because if there is one in isolation sometimes we like to map it rather than call it a landuse=residential. Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find preferences down the bottom. We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to feed it the bit to map. So look for the remote control, usually second button up on the left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest. Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is the plugin button. Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're in alphabetical order, click it and ignore the rest. go to http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917 Read the instructions. Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select edit with JOSM. Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in the existing OSM map for the tile. We want to look at the imagery so look across the top, File, Edit etc until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be using Bing so select Bing. Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two buttons directly under file, the top one is select, the second one is draw nodes. Hover the mouse over them to display the tags. Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so that roughly 90 meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at the top right corner and use Crtldown arrow to
Re: [HOT] Gentle grump
I would much prefer to see an officially approved method. People can give more thought to it but the basic idea of a workflow for simple tasks using JOSM I think is good. JOSM is easier than some people it credit for but more to the point we get less area=yes instead of buildings=yes, highways that almost meet, and duplicate buildings and anything that helps data quality get my vote. Cheerio John On 8 March 2015 at 18:51, althio althio.fo...@gmail.com wrote: John, Ray, I think the quick start guide is a very neat idea. I would need to try the workflow and a few variations for myself. For the time being I only have reservations about the trick upload-and-cancel. It would be IMO simpler and better to guide people to use consciously validation instead of faking an upload. (Validation window and/or Shift+V) I would say this particular aspect of the workflow is not intended for beginners (and idiots) because it is error-prone. (What if I am still trying to figure out what needs to be mapped? I am a beginner and do not know or understand the differences between projects and their instructions... What if I upload bad data? I am an idiot...) I think you must learn to walk before you can run. This kind of tricks is for people who want to map faster, understand the pros and cons, the purpose and risks. Anyway John, I fully agree your post is a nice starting point for this kind of guide with an approved and proposed workflow for simple tasks. Thank you Nick for safekeeping the idea. althio On Mar 7, 2015 8:43 AM, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org wrote: John - Wow. That was actually an amazing help. I am not sure how adding a plugin can be made intuitive for someone doing it the first time without this level of detail. I also think part of my problem is going from slippy maps, like what we have been using on the web for years, and the iPhone and so on, to JOSM. The navigation is ... different. I guess control-arrow makes sense for moving in the map, but I seem to keep looking for a grab tool of some kind. My hands know slippy maps. And your hit-update-but-dont workflow is brilliant, but the fact that it has to be done that way, or is easier done that way Well, it suggests something is off, but I do not know what. We will see. I think that, at this point, I can go to the JOSM resources and get where I need to go. It is certainly daunting at first but, OMG, for buildings, JOSM is fantastic. Well, onward and upward. - ray On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:30:59 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Right the basic idiot guide. First write down your OSM userid and password. For task 917 we only care about highways, settlements and buildings. Buildings if only because if there is one in isolation sometimes we like to map it rather than call it a landuse=residential. Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find preferences down the bottom. We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to feed it the bit to map. So look for the remote control, usually second button up on the left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest. Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is the plugin button. Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're in alphabetical order, click it and ignore the rest. go to http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917 Read the instructions. Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select edit with JOSM. Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in the existing OSM map for the tile. We want to look at the imagery so look across the top, File, Edit etc until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be using Bing so select Bing. Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two buttons directly under file, the top one is select, the second one is draw nodes. Hover the mouse over them to display the tags. Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so that roughly 90 meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at the top right corner and use Crtldown arrow to scan the image. The following is not the official way to do things but its fast. Draw round each settlement but don't tag it. If you're lucky enough to find a road joining settlements draw the highway in again don't tag it. As you go draw round each settlement you see on the road. Stick to one type of highway omit the others for the moment. The upload button is the fourth button from the left near Tools. When you upload JOSM will give you a warning, cancel the upload. On the right hand side normally at the bottom you'll see a Validation Results box, click on the + by the warning. You'll see untagged ways. Highlight the untagged ways and select them. In tags Add landuse=residential to them all. Click the upload button once more, again you'll get a warning this time saying landuse residential has unclosed ways, select these as a group. In tags Edit and
Re: [HOT] Gentle grump
John, Ray, I think the quick start guide is a very neat idea. I would need to try the workflow and a few variations for myself. For the time being I only have reservations about the trick upload-and-cancel. It would be IMO simpler and better to guide people to use consciously validation instead of faking an upload. (Validation window and/or Shift+V) I would say this particular aspect of the workflow is not intended for beginners (and idiots) because it is error-prone. (What if I am still trying to figure out what needs to be mapped? I am a beginner and do not know or understand the differences between projects and their instructions... What if I upload bad data? I am an idiot...) I think you must learn to walk before you can run. This kind of tricks is for people who want to map faster, understand the pros and cons, the purpose and risks. Anyway John, I fully agree your post is a nice starting point for this kind of guide with an approved and proposed workflow for simple tasks. Thank you Nick for safekeeping the idea. althio On Mar 7, 2015 8:43 AM, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org wrote: John - Wow. That was actually an amazing help. I am not sure how adding a plugin can be made intuitive for someone doing it the first time without this level of detail. I also think part of my problem is going from slippy maps, like what we have been using on the web for years, and the iPhone and so on, to JOSM. The navigation is ... different. I guess control-arrow makes sense for moving in the map, but I seem to keep looking for a grab tool of some kind. My hands know slippy maps. And your hit-update-but-dont workflow is brilliant, but the fact that it has to be done that way, or is easier done that way Well, it suggests something is off, but I do not know what. We will see. I think that, at this point, I can go to the JOSM resources and get where I need to go. It is certainly daunting at first but, OMG, for buildings, JOSM is fantastic. Well, onward and upward. - ray On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:30:59 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Right the basic idiot guide. First write down your OSM userid and password. For task 917 we only care about highways, settlements and buildings. Buildings if only because if there is one in isolation sometimes we like to map it rather than call it a landuse=residential. Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find preferences down the bottom. We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to feed it the bit to map. So look for the remote control, usually second button up on the left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest. Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is the plugin button. Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're in alphabetical order, click it and ignore the rest. go to http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917 Read the instructions. Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select edit with JOSM. Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in the existing OSM map for the tile. We want to look at the imagery so look across the top, File, Edit etc until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be using Bing so select Bing. Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two buttons directly under file, the top one is select, the second one is draw nodes. Hover the mouse over them to display the tags. Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so that roughly 90 meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at the top right corner and use Crtldown arrow to scan the image. The following is not the official way to do things but its fast. Draw round each settlement but don't tag it. If you're lucky enough to find a road joining settlements draw the highway in again don't tag it. As you go draw round each settlement you see on the road. Stick to one type of highway omit the others for the moment. The upload button is the fourth button from the left near Tools. When you upload JOSM will give you a warning, cancel the upload. On the right hand side normally at the bottom you'll see a Validation Results box, click on the + by the warning. You'll see untagged ways. Highlight the untagged ways and select them. In tags Add landuse=residential to them all. Click the upload button once more, again you'll get a warning this time saying landuse residential has unclosed ways, select these as a group. In tags Edit and change the tag to highway=unclassified. Now upload. You may need your OSM userid and password at this point. You'll notice that JOSM already has the source of the image filled in and the HOT tile etc. Now go back and look for highway=tracks. Again don't tag until JOSM warns you on uploading then tag them all at once. For rectangle buildings press b for the building plug-in, now find the longest side and mouse click one corner, follow the edge to the next
Re: [HOT] Gentle grump
Thank you for testing it. The grab handle needs to be added, press and hold the right mouse button then move the mouse. From the mapper's point of view the building tool is very nice as you say, marking the settlements then tagging them all once is much faster so you feel as if you are accomplishing more. From the maps point of view we get less wasted effort and we get a cleaner map. I've changed hundreds if not thousands of area=yes to building=yes tags, JOSM will tell you if two highways are almost touching, this is important for routing. It will spot duplicate buildings, and I've seen a number of these, sometimes both have the same author on them. Perhaps someone could add/incorporate this idiot guide to the learn OSM page? It would need to be extended to include the grab handle. Thanks Cheerio John On 7 March 2015 at 02:41, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org wrote: John - Wow. That was actually an amazing help. I am not sure how adding a plugin can be made intuitive for someone doing it the first time without this level of detail. I also think part of my problem is going from slippy maps, like what we have been using on the web for years, and the iPhone and so on, to JOSM. The navigation is ... different. I guess control-arrow makes sense for moving in the map, but I seem to keep looking for a grab tool of some kind. My hands know slippy maps. And your hit-update-but-dont workflow is brilliant, but the fact that it has to be done that way, or is easier done that way Well, it suggests something is off, but I do not know what. We will see. I think that, at this point, I can go to the JOSM resources and get where I need to go. It is certainly daunting at first but, OMG, for buildings, JOSM is fantastic. Well, onward and upward. - ray On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:30:59 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Right the basic idiot guide. First write down your OSM userid and password. For task 917 we only care about highways, settlements and buildings. Buildings if only because if there is one in isolation sometimes we like to map it rather than call it a landuse=residential. Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find preferences down the bottom. We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to feed it the bit to map. So look for the remote control, usually second button up on the left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest. Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is the plugin button. Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're in alphabetical order, click it and ignore the rest. go to http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917 Read the instructions. Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select edit with JOSM. Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in the existing OSM map for the tile. We want to look at the imagery so look across the top, File, Edit etc until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be using Bing so select Bing. Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two buttons directly under file, the top one is select, the second one is draw nodes. Hover the mouse over them to display the tags. Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so that roughly 90 meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at the top right corner and use Crtldown arrow to scan the image. The following is not the official way to do things but its fast. Draw round each settlement but don't tag it. If you're lucky enough to find a road joining settlements draw the highway in again don't tag it. As you go draw round each settlement you see on the road. Stick to one type of highway omit the others for the moment. The upload button is the fourth button from the left near Tools. When you upload JOSM will give you a warning, cancel the upload. On the right hand side normally at the bottom you'll see a Validation Results box, click on the + by the warning. You'll see untagged ways. Highlight the untagged ways and select them. In tags Add landuse=residential to them all. Click the upload button once more, again you'll get a warning this time saying landuse residential has unclosed ways, select these as a group. In tags Edit and change the tag to highway=unclassified. Now upload. You may need your OSM userid and password at this point. You'll notice that JOSM already has the source of the image filled in and the HOT tile etc. Now go back and look for highway=tracks. Again don't tag until JOSM warns you on uploading then tag them all at once. For rectangle buildings press b for the building plug-in, now find the longest side and mouse click one corner, follow the edge to the next corner then click again, now drag the mouse to the other side. Click once more and the building is done and correctly tagged for HOT. There is a lot more to JOSM but this guide's objective is to get you going productively
Re: [HOT] Gentle grump
John, Thanks for that - you've got some very good ideas there. I've created issue https://github.com/hotosm/learnosm/issues/334 for learnOSM so we don't lose it can incorporate when we get the chance. Thanks again. Nick On 07/03/15 12:02, john whelan wrote: Thank you for testing it. The grab handle needs to be added, press and hold the right mouse button then move the mouse. From the mapper's point of view the building tool is very nice as you say, marking the settlements then tagging them all once is much faster so you feel as if you are accomplishing more. From the maps point of view we get less wasted effort and we get a cleaner map. I've changed hundreds if not thousands of area=yes to building=yes tags, JOSM will tell you if two highways are almost touching, this is important for routing. It will spot duplicate buildings, and I've seen a number of these, sometimes both have the same author on them. Perhaps someone could add/incorporate this idiot guide to the learn OSM page? It would need to be extended to include the grab handle. Thanks Cheerio John On 7 March 2015 at 02:41, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org mailto:r...@ganymede.org wrote: John - Wow. That was actually an amazing help. I am not sure how adding a plugin can be made intuitive for someone doing it the first time without this level of detail. I also think part of my problem is going from slippy maps, like what we have been using on the web for years, and the iPhone and so on, to JOSM. The navigation is ... different. I guess control-arrow makes sense for moving in the map, but I seem to keep looking for a grab tool of some kind. My hands know slippy maps. And your hit-update-but-dont workflow is brilliant, but the fact that it has to be done that way, or is easier done that way Well, it suggests something is off, but I do not know what. We will see. I think that, at this point, I can go to the JOSM resources and get where I need to go. It is certainly daunting at first but, OMG, for buildings, JOSM is fantastic. Well, onward and upward. - ray On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:30:59 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com mailto:jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Right the basic idiot guide. First write down your OSM userid and password. For task 917 we only care about highways, settlements and buildings. Buildings if only because if there is one in isolation sometimes we like to map it rather than call it a landuse=residential. Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find preferences down the bottom. We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to feed it the bit to map. So look for the remote control, usually second button up on the left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest. Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is the plugin button. Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're in alphabetical order, click it and ignore the rest. go to http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917 Read the instructions. Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select edit with JOSM. Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in the existing OSM map for the tile. We want to look at the imagery so look across the top, File, Edit etc until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be using Bing so select Bing. Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two buttons directly under file, the top one is select, the second one is draw nodes. Hover the mouse over them to display the tags. Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so that roughly 90 meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at the top right corner and use Crtldown arrow to scan the image. The following is not the official way to do things but its fast. Draw round each settlement but don't tag it. If you're lucky enough to find a road joining settlements draw the highway in again don't tag it. As you go draw round each settlement you see on the road. Stick to one type of highway omit the others for the moment. The upload button is the fourth button from the left near Tools. When you upload JOSM will give you a warning, cancel the upload. On the right hand side normally at the bottom you'll see a Validation Results box, click on the + by the warning. You'll see untagged ways. Highlight the untagged ways and select them. In tags Add landuse=residential to them all. Click the upload button once more, again you'll get a warning this time saying landuse residential has unclosed ways, select these as a group. In tags Edit and change the tag to highway=unclassified. Now upload. You may need your OSM userid and password at this
Re: [HOT] Gentle grump
Probably having got them started with JOSM it might be an idea to have a small series of how to map a to extend it. My thought might be how to map a tree, its basic but by referencing the map features page of the wiki and then natural=tree http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dtree you can introduce the concept of multiple tags. Someone with a teaching or training background might be able to identify what should be in the how to part to make it relevant to HOT. Cheerio John On 7 March 2015 at 16:15, Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.com wrote: John, Thanks for that - you've got some very good ideas there. I've created issue https://github.com/hotosm/learnosm/issues/334 for learnOSM so we don't lose it can incorporate when we get the chance. Thanks again. Nick On 07/03/15 12:02, john whelan wrote: Thank you for testing it. The grab handle needs to be added, press and hold the right mouse button then move the mouse. From the mapper's point of view the building tool is very nice as you say, marking the settlements then tagging them all once is much faster so you feel as if you are accomplishing more. From the maps point of view we get less wasted effort and we get a cleaner map. I've changed hundreds if not thousands of area=yes to building=yes tags, JOSM will tell you if two highways are almost touching, this is important for routing. It will spot duplicate buildings, and I've seen a number of these, sometimes both have the same author on them. Perhaps someone could add/incorporate this idiot guide to the learn OSM page? It would need to be extended to include the grab handle. Thanks Cheerio John On 7 March 2015 at 02:41, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org wrote: John - Wow. That was actually an amazing help. I am not sure how adding a plugin can be made intuitive for someone doing it the first time without this level of detail. I also think part of my problem is going from slippy maps, like what we have been using on the web for years, and the iPhone and so on, to JOSM. The navigation is ... different. I guess control-arrow makes sense for moving in the map, but I seem to keep looking for a grab tool of some kind. My hands know slippy maps. And your hit-update-but-dont workflow is brilliant, but the fact that it has to be done that way, or is easier done that way Well, it suggests something is off, but I do not know what. We will see. I think that, at this point, I can go to the JOSM resources and get where I need to go. It is certainly daunting at first but, OMG, for buildings, JOSM is fantastic. Well, onward and upward. - ray On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:30:59 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Right the basic idiot guide. First write down your OSM userid and password. For task 917 we only care about highways, settlements and buildings. Buildings if only because if there is one in isolation sometimes we like to map it rather than call it a landuse=residential. Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find preferences down the bottom. We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to feed it the bit to map. So look for the remote control, usually second button up on the left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest. Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is the plugin button. Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're in alphabetical order, click it and ignore the rest. go to http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917 Read the instructions. Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select edit with JOSM. Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in the existing OSM map for the tile. We want to look at the imagery so look across the top, File, Edit etc until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be using Bing so select Bing. Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two buttons directly under file, the top one is select, the second one is draw nodes. Hover the mouse over them to display the tags. Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so that roughly 90 meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at the top right corner and use Crtldown arrow to scan the image. The following is not the official way to do things but its fast. Draw round each settlement but don't tag it. If you're lucky enough to find a road joining settlements draw the highway in again don't tag it. As you go draw round each settlement you see on the road. Stick to one type of highway omit the others for the moment. The upload button is the fourth button from the left near Tools. When you upload JOSM will give you a warning, cancel the upload. On the right hand side normally at the bottom you'll see a Validation Results box, click on the + by the warning. You'll see untagged ways. Highlight the untagged ways and select them. In tags Add landuse=residential to them all. Click the upload button
Re: [HOT] Gentle grump
I believe I have a more elegant way for mass taggings. For example if I want to add the roads in a community that hasn't been tagged before; usually the roads are all highway=residential. Steps: - I draw all roads, ignoring crossings, not yet adding tags - I select all drawn lines using search new type:way untagged. fow which I have an icon on the taskbar - I hit [SHIFT]i to add all crossings - I select the lines again - I tag them all as highway=residential, for which I also have an icon on the taskbar. Regards, Jan van Bekkum On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 12:10 AM john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Probably having got them started with JOSM it might be an idea to have a small series of how to map a to extend it. My thought might be how to map a tree, its basic but by referencing the map features page of the wiki and then natural=tree http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dtree you can introduce the concept of multiple tags. Someone with a teaching or training background might be able to identify what should be in the how to part to make it relevant to HOT. Cheerio John On 7 March 2015 at 16:15, Nick Allen nick.allen...@gmail.com wrote: John, Thanks for that - you've got some very good ideas there. I've created issue https://github.com/hotosm/learnosm/issues/334 for learnOSM so we don't lose it can incorporate when we get the chance. Thanks again. Nick On 07/03/15 12:02, john whelan wrote: Thank you for testing it. The grab handle needs to be added, press and hold the right mouse button then move the mouse. From the mapper's point of view the building tool is very nice as you say, marking the settlements then tagging them all once is much faster so you feel as if you are accomplishing more. From the maps point of view we get less wasted effort and we get a cleaner map. I've changed hundreds if not thousands of area=yes to building=yes tags, JOSM will tell you if two highways are almost touching, this is important for routing. It will spot duplicate buildings, and I've seen a number of these, sometimes both have the same author on them. Perhaps someone could add/incorporate this idiot guide to the learn OSM page? It would need to be extended to include the grab handle. Thanks Cheerio John On 7 March 2015 at 02:41, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org wrote: John - Wow. That was actually an amazing help. I am not sure how adding a plugin can be made intuitive for someone doing it the first time without this level of detail. I also think part of my problem is going from slippy maps, like what we have been using on the web for years, and the iPhone and so on, to JOSM. The navigation is ... different. I guess control-arrow makes sense for moving in the map, but I seem to keep looking for a grab tool of some kind. My hands know slippy maps. And your hit-update-but-dont workflow is brilliant, but the fact that it has to be done that way, or is easier done that way Well, it suggests something is off, but I do not know what. We will see. I think that, at this point, I can go to the JOSM resources and get where I need to go. It is certainly daunting at first but, OMG, for buildings, JOSM is fantastic. Well, onward and upward. - ray On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:30:59 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Right the basic idiot guide. First write down your OSM userid and password. For task 917 we only care about highways, settlements and buildings. Buildings if only because if there is one in isolation sometimes we like to map it rather than call it a landuse=residential. Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find preferences down the bottom. We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to feed it the bit to map. So look for the remote control, usually second button up on the left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest. Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is the plugin button. Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're in alphabetical order, click it and ignore the rest. go to http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917 Read the instructions. Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select edit with JOSM. Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in the existing OSM map for the tile. We want to look at the imagery so look across the top, File, Edit etc until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be using Bing so select Bing. Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two buttons directly under file, the top one is select, the second one is draw nodes. Hover the mouse over them to display the tags. Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so that roughly 90 meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at the top right corner and use Crtldown arrow to scan the image. The following is not the official way to do things but its fast. Draw round each settlement but don't
Re: [HOT] Gentle grump
Hey Ray, Some shortcuts for JOSM are here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Keyboard_Shortcuts The learning materials for OSM are constantly being developed and improved. MapGive created some nice intro materials http://mapgive.state.gov/learn-to-map/. HOT is still actively working on learnosm (http://learnosm.org/en/). HOT has also just started to develop OSM tracing guides (http://hotosm.github.io/tracing-guides/). Both of the HOT projects are GitHub repositories (https://github.com/hotosm/learnosm and https://github.com/hotosm/tracing-guides). Contributors welcome! You don't need to write tutorials, it's helpful if you even just submit issues via Github to request materials or point out deficiencies/mistakes. If you don't have/want a Github account, notify the list and I'm sure someone can log the issue for you. All the best, Dan Joseph On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 3:07 PM, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org wrote: On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 15:12:21 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Just for the heck of it I ran JOSM validation on a tile I was mapping before touching it. It turned up duplicate buildings, crossed buildings, lots of highways separated by a few inches etc. Do we need an idiot guide? A sort of this is how to provide the maximum benefit for the least effort. Speaking as an idiot, I would say that the answer to this is yes. Perhaps you think I jest Mine would probably run along the lines of for Africa the convention is only the following values of highways are used for minor highways: path, track, unclassified, use highway=road if you are uncertain. Someone will probably have tagged the secondary and primary highways. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dsecondary If possible use JOSM especially for buildings. Please map buildings as building=yes do not assume it is a house. As a 2-3 times per week mapper (who wishes I could do more), it can get frustrating. Lots of projects point to the Africa roads page but that page is hard to interpret for any particular context. There is a lot of information. And I hate to say it but I use ID and it drives me nuts. This may be from browser/js/platform issues. I am using Firefox 36.0 on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. But I have looked at JOSM and it is somewhat bewildering and I have no idea how long it would take to get over the first humps of the learning curve. For now, my annoyances with ID are tolerable. If one was able to look at a task and see what tags where being used and how often within just that task, this might help the African roads situation. People use maps to get from one place to another, if the highways are joined up then routing software such as comes as part of OSMAND can be used. Look for highways around settlements that connect to other settlements. Crtlarrow in JOSM will navigate vertically or horizontally making scanning easier. I should see if there is a cheat sheet for JOSM. It would be nice to know what control-shift-elbox-J does and all that. Of course, these may be platform specific (eg Windows keys vs Linux keys vs MacOS X keys). I assume that most of these errors have crept in because JOSM validation was not used. I suspect that the immediate feedback from JOSM might assist our less skilled mappers to improve their skills. Cheerio John There needs to be validation on input and obviously both ID and JOSM do some, but can validation be done on the server? This would be better, especially if the results can be communicated to users. A HOT task could have a Validations tab. I, for one, would like to see the things that have been already fixed in data in that task. It would let me know when there are things not to do. If I am going to make a mistake within a task's maps, it is at least a bit likely that others will make or have made similar mistakes in the same context. Again, seeing the phrase JOSM might assist our less skilled mappers, I have to wonder what you are thinking about here. Any sentence with both JOSM and less skilled mappers in it is going to lead to bad things. JOSM might be easier than it is, but I am not even very sure of that. Sometimes complex tasks require complex tools. One just hopes that there are options between the very-simple-but-also-brain-dead tool and the amazingly-powerful-but-shockingly-unintuitive tool. I am not saying that this is what JSOM and ID are, but hopefully you see my point. So, grump back at ya. :-) cheers - ray ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Gentle grump
Right the basic idiot guide. First write down your OSM userid and password. For task 917 we only care about highways, settlements and buildings. Buildings if only because if there is one in isolation sometimes we like to map it rather than call it a landuse=residential. Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find preferences down the bottom. We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to feed it the bit to map. So look for the remote control, usually second button up on the left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest. Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is the plugin button. Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're in alphabetical order, click it and ignore the rest. go to http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917 Read the instructions. Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select edit with JOSM. Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in the existing OSM map for the tile. We want to look at the imagery so look across the top, File, Edit etc until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be using Bing so select Bing. Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two buttons directly under file, the top one is select, the second one is draw nodes. Hover the mouse over them to display the tags. Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so that roughly 90 meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at the top right corner and use Crtldown arrow to scan the image. The following is not the official way to do things but its fast. Draw round each settlement but don't tag it. If you're lucky enough to find a road joining settlements draw the highway in again don't tag it. As you go draw round each settlement you see on the road. Stick to one type of highway omit the others for the moment. The upload button is the fourth button from the left near Tools. When you upload JOSM will give you a warning, cancel the upload. On the right hand side normally at the bottom you'll see a Validation Results box, click on the + by the warning. You'll see untagged ways. Highlight the untagged ways and select them. In tags Add landuse=residential to them all. Click the upload button once more, again you'll get a warning this time saying landuse residential has unclosed ways, select these as a group. In tags Edit and change the tag to highway=unclassified. Now upload. You may need your OSM userid and password at this point. You'll notice that JOSM already has the source of the image filled in and the HOT tile etc. Now go back and look for highway=tracks. Again don't tag until JOSM warns you on uploading then tag them all at once. For rectangle buildings press b for the building plug-in, now find the longest side and mouse click one corner, follow the edge to the next corner then click again, now drag the mouse to the other side. Click once more and the building is done and correctly tagged for HOT. There is a lot more to JOSM but this guide's objective is to get you going productively quickly. Cheerio John On 6 March 2015 at 15:07, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org wrote: On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 15:12:21 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Just for the heck of it I ran JOSM validation on a tile I was mapping before touching it. It turned up duplicate buildings, crossed buildings, lots of highways separated by a few inches etc. Do we need an idiot guide? A sort of this is how to provide the maximum benefit for the least effort. Speaking as an idiot, I would say that the answer to this is yes. Perhaps you think I jest Mine would probably run along the lines of for Africa the convention is only the following values of highways are used for minor highways: path, track, unclassified, use highway=road if you are uncertain. Someone will probably have tagged the secondary and primary highways. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dsecondary If possible use JOSM especially for buildings. Please map buildings as building=yes do not assume it is a house. As a 2-3 times per week mapper (who wishes I could do more), it can get frustrating. Lots of projects point to the Africa roads page but that page is hard to interpret for any particular context. There is a lot of information. And I hate to say it but I use ID and it drives me nuts. This may be from browser/js/platform issues. I am using Firefox 36.0 on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. But I have looked at JOSM and it is somewhat bewildering and I have no idea how long it would take to get over the first humps of the learning curve. For now, my annoyances with ID are tolerable. If one was able to look at a task and see what tags where being used and how often within just that task, this might help the African roads situation. People use maps to get from one place to another, if the highways are joined up then routing software such as comes as part of OSMAND can be used. Look for highways around settlements that connect to other settlements.
Re: [HOT] Gentle grump
On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 15:12:21 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Just for the heck of it I ran JOSM validation on a tile I was mapping before touching it. It turned up duplicate buildings, crossed buildings, lots of highways separated by a few inches etc. Do we need an idiot guide? A sort of this is how to provide the maximum benefit for the least effort. Speaking as an idiot, I would say that the answer to this is yes. Perhaps you think I jest Mine would probably run along the lines of for Africa the convention is only the following values of highways are used for minor highways: path, track, unclassified, use highway=road if you are uncertain. Someone will probably have tagged the secondary and primary highways. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dsecondary If possible use JOSM especially for buildings. Please map buildings as building=yes do not assume it is a house. As a 2-3 times per week mapper (who wishes I could do more), it can get frustrating. Lots of projects point to the Africa roads page but that page is hard to interpret for any particular context. There is a lot of information. And I hate to say it but I use ID and it drives me nuts. This may be from browser/js/platform issues. I am using Firefox 36.0 on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. But I have looked at JOSM and it is somewhat bewildering and I have no idea how long it would take to get over the first humps of the learning curve. For now, my annoyances with ID are tolerable. If one was able to look at a task and see what tags where being used and how often within just that task, this might help the African roads situation. People use maps to get from one place to another, if the highways are joined up then routing software such as comes as part of OSMAND can be used. Look for highways around settlements that connect to other settlements. Crtlarrow in JOSM will navigate vertically or horizontally making scanning easier. I should see if there is a cheat sheet for JOSM. It would be nice to know what control-shift-elbox-J does and all that. Of course, these may be platform specific (eg Windows keys vs Linux keys vs MacOS X keys). I assume that most of these errors have crept in because JOSM validation was not used. I suspect that the immediate feedback from JOSM might assist our less skilled mappers to improve their skills. Cheerio John There needs to be validation on input and obviously both ID and JOSM do some, but can validation be done on the server? This would be better, especially if the results can be communicated to users. A HOT task could have a Validations tab. I, for one, would like to see the things that have been already fixed in data in that task. It would let me know when there are things not to do. If I am going to make a mistake within a task's maps, it is at least a bit likely that others will make or have made similar mistakes in the same context. Again, seeing the phrase JOSM might assist our less skilled mappers, I have to wonder what you are thinking about here. Any sentence with both JOSM and less skilled mappers in it is going to lead to bad things. JOSM might be easier than it is, but I am not even very sure of that. Sometimes complex tasks require complex tools. One just hopes that there are options between the very-simple-but-also-brain-dead tool and the amazingly-powerful-but-shockingly-unintuitive tool. I am not saying that this is what JSOM and ID are, but hopefully you see my point. So, grump back at ya. :-) cheers - ray ___ HOT mailing list HOT@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot
Re: [HOT] Gentle grump
John - Wow. That was actually an amazing help. I am not sure how adding a plugin can be made intuitive for someone doing it the first time without this level of detail. I also think part of my problem is going from slippy maps, like what we have been using on the web for years, and the iPhone and so on, to JOSM. The navigation is ... different. I guess control-arrow makes sense for moving in the map, but I seem to keep looking for a grab tool of some kind. My hands know slippy maps. And your hit-update-but-dont workflow is brilliant, but the fact that it has to be done that way, or is easier done that way Well, it suggests something is off, but I do not know what. We will see. I think that, at this point, I can go to the JOSM resources and get where I need to go. It is certainly daunting at first but, OMG, for buildings, JOSM is fantastic. Well, onward and upward. - ray On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 18:30:59 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Right the basic idiot guide. First write down your OSM userid and password. For task 917 we only care about highways, settlements and buildings. Buildings if only because if there is one in isolation sometimes we like to map it rather than call it a landuse=residential. Start JOSM up, in the edit menu you'll find preferences down the bottom. We need to allow HOT to remotely control JOSM to feed it the bit to map. So look for the remote control, usually second button up on the left. Click enable remote control, ignore the rest. Now we need to add a plugin, fourth tile down is the plugin button. Download the list. Look for buildings_tool they're in alphabetical order, click it and ignore the rest. go to http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/917 Read the instructions. Click on a tile, click on start mapping, select edit with JOSM. Switch back to JOSM and you'll find its pulled in the existing OSM map for the tile. We want to look at the imagery so look across the top, File, Edit etc until you reach Imagery, for this one we will be using Bing so select Bing. Now we need to trace over the image. We'll use two buttons directly under file, the top one is select, the second one is draw nodes. Hover the mouse over them to display the tags. Zoom in to the image, generally speaking I zoom so that roughly 90 meters shows on the scale. Personally I start at the top right corner and use Crtldown arrow to scan the image. The following is not the official way to do things but its fast. Draw round each settlement but don't tag it. If you're lucky enough to find a road joining settlements draw the highway in again don't tag it. As you go draw round each settlement you see on the road. Stick to one type of highway omit the others for the moment. The upload button is the fourth button from the left near Tools. When you upload JOSM will give you a warning, cancel the upload. On the right hand side normally at the bottom you'll see a Validation Results box, click on the + by the warning. You'll see untagged ways. Highlight the untagged ways and select them. In tags Add landuse=residential to them all. Click the upload button once more, again you'll get a warning this time saying landuse residential has unclosed ways, select these as a group. In tags Edit and change the tag to highway=unclassified. Now upload. You may need your OSM userid and password at this point. You'll notice that JOSM already has the source of the image filled in and the HOT tile etc. Now go back and look for highway=tracks. Again don't tag until JOSM warns you on uploading then tag them all at once. For rectangle buildings press b for the building plug-in, now find the longest side and mouse click one corner, follow the edge to the next corner then click again, now drag the mouse to the other side. Click once more and the building is done and correctly tagged for HOT. There is a lot more to JOSM but this guide's objective is to get you going productively quickly. Cheerio John On 6 March 2015 at 15:07, Ray Kiddy r...@ganymede.org wrote: On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 15:12:21 -0500 john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Just for the heck of it I ran JOSM validation on a tile I was mapping before touching it. It turned up duplicate buildings, crossed buildings, lots of highways separated by a few inches etc. Do we need an idiot guide? A sort of this is how to provide the maximum benefit for the least effort. Speaking as an idiot, I would say that the answer to this is yes. Perhaps you think I jest Mine would probably run along the lines of for Africa the convention is only the following values of highways are used for minor highways: path, track, unclassified, use highway=road if you are uncertain. Someone will probably have tagged the secondary and primary highways. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dsecondary If
