Re: [Hpr] HTML notes accessibility pointer
My 2p. On Thu, 7 Apr 2016, 11:56 Ken Fallon, wrote: > The policy of having complete links is so that RSS readers will render > the links. So the link 'find episode 1 of galvanic frogs leg spasm here' > would not be rendered as a hyper link. This is why we deliberately put > the text before the link and then the link. > That's really interesting to hear... I've used a number of different RSS readers: commercial and libre, newsreaders and podcatchers; and I've never used one that wasn't capable of rendering a hyperlink as standard (unless told specifically not to by some plain-text mode or such like). I should have trimmed the email down like you did and post in > between. You still need to make sure to include some context. > Context-posting, that's what it should be called. Dave ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
Re: [Hpr] HTML notes accessibility pointer
On 2016-04-06 22:59, Bob Jonkman wrote: > Accessible linking practices is probably worth pointing out in an HPR > episode. We are very aware of the fact of keeping things accessible. However we also need to keep it accessible for all users and not just those with screen readers. The policy of having complete links is so that RSS readers will render the links. So the link 'find episode 1 of galvanic frogs leg spasm here' would not be rendered as a hyper link. This is why we deliberately put the text before the link and then the link. For example find episode 1 of galvanic frogs leg spasm: http://example.com/frogs If there is a better way of doing this then I want to hear about it. I also want more people to hear about it. For that reason it is better to record a show which will reach 16,000 people versus the mail list which will hit 160 people. > Also, the issue of mailing list top and bottom posting. I've been told > by people using screen readers that it's REALLY annoying to have to > listen to the same quoted text message after message, only to hear "I > agree" at the end of it all. Screen reader people seem to prefer top > posting. Apologies for doing that one liner. However I disagree about top posting. I should have trimmed the email down like you did and post in between. You still need to make sure to include some context. -- Regards, Ken Fallon http://kenfallon.com http://hackerpublicradio.org/correspondents.php?hostid=30 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
Re: [Hpr] HTML notes accessibility pointer
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Accessible linking practices is probably worth pointing out in an HPR episode. Also, the issue of mailing list top and bottom posting. I've been told by people using screen readers that it's REALLY annoying to have to listen to the same quoted text message after message, only to hear "I agree" at the end of it all. Screen reader people seem to prefer top posting. - --Bob, who doesn't mean to start a flame war. - -- Bob Jonkman Phone: +1-519-635-9413 SOBAC Microcomputer Services http://sobac.com/sobac/ Software --- Office & Business Automation --- Consulting GnuPG Fngrprnt:04F7 742B 8F54 C40A E115 26C2 B912 89B0 D2CC E5EA On 2016-04-06 08:45 AM, Mike Ray wrote: > Hello folks. > > I just wanted to point out a little thing about how to make HTML > show notes more accessible to blind folks like me. > > When you're linking to something in your notes, like the previous > episode in your series, please consider the method most > screen-reader users use to navigate between links. > > All of the readers I have come across have a navigation key > dedicated to stepping through varieties of landmarks in an HTML > page. For example the 'l' key to jump from link to link or the 'h' > key to jump between headers. > > So, when using the keypress method of jumping from one link to the > next it is very poor practice to, for example, make only the word > 'here' a link in the middle of a sentence like 'Find the notes for > episode N here'. > > If there are multiple links on a page of that kind then repeated > presses of 'l' will just make the screen-reader say 'here, here, > here, here, here' as you go from link to link. > > So, we then have to look at the surrounding text to identify what > the link is. > > Likewise, if your notes contain the actual text 'http:// ... etc > ... ' after words which say what it is, we just get a Web address > and it's not always obvious what it is. > > Better to make the whole of the 'find episode 1 of galvanic frogs > leg spasm here' a hyperlink. > > Here endeth the lesson on the third Wednesday after muck > spreading. > > Mike > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Ensure confidentiality, authenticity, non-repudiability iEYEARECAAYFAlcFeL0ACgkQuRKJsNLM5eqJqgCdHkAb+vcApRankZXFGnTYCkIP Yc8AoPVqrdS9IsVGLF1chYzlzAZYSt5o =1D53 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
Re: [Hpr] HTML notes accessibility pointer
On 06/04/16 16:28, Mike Ray wrote: > On 06/04/2016 16:09, Dave Morriss wrote: >> On 06/04/16 13:45, Mike Ray wrote: >>> Hello folks. >>> >>> I just wanted to point out a little thing about how to make HTML show >>> notes more accessible to blind folks like me. >>> >>> When you're linking to something in your notes, like the previous >>> episode in your series, please consider the method most screen-reader >>> users use to navigate between links. >>> >>> All of the readers I have come across have a navigation key dedicated to >>> stepping through varieties of landmarks in an HTML page. For example >>> the 'l' key to jump from link to link or the 'h' key to jump between >>> headers. >>> >>> So, when using the keypress method of jumping from one link to the next >>> it is very poor practice to, for example, make only the word 'here' a >>> link in the middle of a sentence like 'Find the notes for episode N here'. >>> >>> If there are multiple links on a page of that kind then repeated presses >>> of 'l' will just make the screen-reader say 'here, here, here, here, >>> here' as you go from link to link. >>> >>> So, we then have to look at the surrounding text to identify what the >>> link is. >>> >>> Likewise, if your notes contain the actual text 'http:// ... etc ... ' >>> after words which say what it is, we just get a Web address and it's not >>> always obvious what it is. >>> >>> Better to make the whole of the 'find episode 1 of galvanic frogs leg >>> spasm here' a hyperlink. >>> >>> Here endeth the lesson on the third Wednesday after muck spreading. >> >> Thanks Mike, that's very informative. >> >> I use Markdown for my notes (which I process with Pandoc, which give me >> a few extra features). I generate links in the text by using references >> such as: >> >> In the [last episode][2] we looked at >> >> This refers to reference 2 which is defined as: >> >> [2]: http://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=1986 "Introduction to sed - >> part 2" >> >> The result is that the hyperlink is the text "last episode" but there's >> also a title attribute of "Introduction to sed - part 2". >> >> I had assumed that that generated the most informative result. >> >> I also use what has come to be the HPR standard of making lists and a >> link section where the hyperlink is the URL itself, preceded by text >> explaining what it is. >> >> I'm slightly dismayed to find that this is not ideal. I even have >> scripts that generate it! >> >> By the way, how did you know I was planning an episode about galvanic >> frog's leg spasms? > > 'Galvanic frogs leg spasm' is a phrase that appears in 'Count Zero', > book 2 of William Gibson's Sprawl Trilogy. I have just got into the > habit of using it when I need a chunk of meaningless text. I was "triggered" by your phrase :-) I trained as a Biologist and remember doing the lab session about galvanic response of frog's gastrocnemius muscle using so-called "pithed" frogs (with their heads cut off, and spinal cord destroyed). Biologists can be nasty. > I love markdown and use the reference style links all the time. In that case I'll continue doing what I have been doing. > I've also just started using 'kramdown' which is markdown plus a lovely > table syntax. It's written in Ruby. Interesting. Markdown and Pandoc tables are not very usable I reckon. I used to use Asciidoc a lot and its table markup is better. > I used one of your sed tricks this morning...sed -ne '/^xxx/,$p'. Very > handy. There's a lot in sed that is worth knowing about but is a bit hidden or poorly explained. Glad you're finding the series useful. Dave ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
Re: [Hpr] HTML notes accessibility pointer
On 06/04/2016 16:09, Dave Morriss wrote: > On 06/04/16 13:45, Mike Ray wrote: >> Hello folks. >> >> I just wanted to point out a little thing about how to make HTML show >> notes more accessible to blind folks like me. >> >> When you're linking to something in your notes, like the previous >> episode in your series, please consider the method most screen-reader >> users use to navigate between links. >> >> All of the readers I have come across have a navigation key dedicated to >> stepping through varieties of landmarks in an HTML page. For example >> the 'l' key to jump from link to link or the 'h' key to jump between >> headers. >> >> So, when using the keypress method of jumping from one link to the next >> it is very poor practice to, for example, make only the word 'here' a >> link in the middle of a sentence like 'Find the notes for episode N here'. >> >> If there are multiple links on a page of that kind then repeated presses >> of 'l' will just make the screen-reader say 'here, here, here, here, >> here' as you go from link to link. >> >> So, we then have to look at the surrounding text to identify what the >> link is. >> >> Likewise, if your notes contain the actual text 'http:// ... etc ... ' >> after words which say what it is, we just get a Web address and it's not >> always obvious what it is. >> >> Better to make the whole of the 'find episode 1 of galvanic frogs leg >> spasm here' a hyperlink. >> >> Here endeth the lesson on the third Wednesday after muck spreading. > > Thanks Mike, that's very informative. > > I use Markdown for my notes (which I process with Pandoc, which give me > a few extra features). I generate links in the text by using references > such as: > > In the [last episode][2] we looked at > > This refers to reference 2 which is defined as: > > [2]: http://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=1986 "Introduction to sed - > part 2" > > The result is that the hyperlink is the text "last episode" but there's > also a title attribute of "Introduction to sed - part 2". > > I had assumed that that generated the most informative result. > > I also use what has come to be the HPR standard of making lists and a > link section where the hyperlink is the URL itself, preceded by text > explaining what it is. > > I'm slightly dismayed to find that this is not ideal. I even have > scripts that generate it! > > By the way, how did you know I was planning an episode about galvanic > frog's leg spasms? > > Dave > 'Galvanic frogs leg spasm' is a phrase that appears in 'Count Zero', book 2 of William Gibson's Sprawl Trilogy. I have just got into the habit of using it when I need a chunk of meaningless text. I love markdown and use the reference style links all the time. I've also just started using 'kramdown' which is markdown plus a lovely table syntax. It's written in Ruby. I used one of your sed tricks this morning...sed -ne '/^xxx/,$p'. Very handy. Mike -- Michael A. Ray Analyst/Programmer Witley, Surrey, South-east UK Eyes-free Linux: http://eyesfreelinux.ninja/ Raspberry VI: http://www.raspberryvi.org/ ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
Re: [Hpr] HTML notes accessibility pointer
On 06/04/16 13:45, Mike Ray wrote: > Hello folks. > > I just wanted to point out a little thing about how to make HTML show > notes more accessible to blind folks like me. > > When you're linking to something in your notes, like the previous > episode in your series, please consider the method most screen-reader > users use to navigate between links. > > All of the readers I have come across have a navigation key dedicated to > stepping through varieties of landmarks in an HTML page. For example > the 'l' key to jump from link to link or the 'h' key to jump between > headers. > > So, when using the keypress method of jumping from one link to the next > it is very poor practice to, for example, make only the word 'here' a > link in the middle of a sentence like 'Find the notes for episode N here'. > > If there are multiple links on a page of that kind then repeated presses > of 'l' will just make the screen-reader say 'here, here, here, here, > here' as you go from link to link. > > So, we then have to look at the surrounding text to identify what the > link is. > > Likewise, if your notes contain the actual text 'http:// ... etc ... ' > after words which say what it is, we just get a Web address and it's not > always obvious what it is. > > Better to make the whole of the 'find episode 1 of galvanic frogs leg > spasm here' a hyperlink. > > Here endeth the lesson on the third Wednesday after muck spreading. Thanks Mike, that's very informative. I use Markdown for my notes (which I process with Pandoc, which give me a few extra features). I generate links in the text by using references such as: In the [last episode][2] we looked at This refers to reference 2 which is defined as: [2]: http://hackerpublicradio.org/eps.php?id=1986 "Introduction to sed - part 2" The result is that the hyperlink is the text "last episode" but there's also a title attribute of "Introduction to sed - part 2". I had assumed that that generated the most informative result. I also use what has come to be the HPR standard of making lists and a link section where the hyperlink is the URL itself, preceded by text explaining what it is. I'm slightly dismayed to find that this is not ideal. I even have scripts that generate it! By the way, how did you know I was planning an episode about galvanic frog's leg spasms? Dave ___ Hpr mailing list Hpr@hackerpublicradio.org http://hackerpublicradio.org/mailman/listinfo/hpr_hackerpublicradio.org
