Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Hugin WITHOUT enblend

[tennevin.yves]

Another option I had tried, is to color the source image, like in
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Basilique_St_Maximim_La_Sainte_Baume_-_colored_version_equirectangular.jpg

I think it might be interesting to add a functionnality to hugin to 
output a blend map, just to check the blended area for stitching issues.


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Le 19/01/2012 11:58, Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola) a écrit :

To do that use one of the "Remapped images" option in the Stitcher tab.

Cheers,

Carlos E G Carvalho (Cartola)
http://cartola.org/360



2012/1/19 kfj <_...@yahoo.com >

On 19 Jan., 01:28, Chris Dennis mailto:cgdenni...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hello panoramists
>
> Enblend does a wonderful job, but sometimes I want to create a
> panorama without it.
>
> For example, I want to demonstrate how hugin lays out the images by
> added a thin black border to each image that will show the edge of
> each image in the final panorama.
>
> That works fine -- the borders show up in the preview.  But when I
> stitch it, enblend cleverly blends away the borders!
>
> Is there a way to turn off enblend from within the hugin GUI?  I
tried
> various combinations of options, but none of them have worked.

Just stitch to individual images and blend the images with something
else.
You just have to check the appropriate box in the stitcher tab and
you'll have all the individual warped images, which you can proceed to
process any way you like.

Kay

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Re: [hugin-ptx] [Off-Topic?] Nodal ninja

[tennevin.yves]

For the rorator:
RD-8 is good for 360 panoramas imo, as the mininmal stop is 20°
RD-16 is when you intend to use shorter angles, meaning longer focal 
length (eg: 200mm) as it allows stops by 3.75°.


Imo, the main advantage is that you don't have to be that much cautious 
and gaining time when doing a panorama.

It also reduce the risk that you miss/forget an area...
On the other advantages, consider it's difficult to break a nodal ninja, 
as it is composed of hard plastic / metal part without electronics (that 
you would find in lens)...


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On 14/04/2011 14:42, Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola) wrote:
Hi all, I have been studying panorama tools for a while and have 
finally made what I think I can call a good 360 image:

http://www.cartola.org/panoramas/20110409-Village_Rio_Verde/

I did it with an Opteka 6.5mm without a tripod. I just hold the camera 
on my hands and turn around trying to make 45 degrees steps and trying 
to rotate using an imaginary no-parallax-point. I used hugin, 
panoramatools perl scripts, nona, enblend, enfuse and _*a lot*_ of GIMP.


Note the evolution comparing to the first one I made in 2003 with an 
Olympus C-120 shooting 42 pictures:

http://www.cartola.org/panoramas/sala360/

Now I have a Canon 550D and I have already made an adapter to the 
tripod to try to rotate around the npp, but the result was about the 
same. I mean, there was still too much to do on GIMP. At that time I 
didn´t have calibrated my lens very well nor took care of the rotation 
angle (I didn´t know fish eye lens had variant npp´s). That is why I 
am asking you here if a nodal ninja makes that much difference. I have 
some relatives traveling to the USA and this could be an opportunity 
to buy it much cheaper than here in Brazil where I live (it costs more 
than double here).


Does it worth what it costs? I can see it at about US$ 230,00 or at 
US$ 370,00 with a rotator R-D16 at amazon. Does a rotator make difference?


As photography is only a hobby to me, I also thought about making my 
own tripod head like those:

http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Panoramic-Tripod-Head
http://www.diyphotography.net/homemade-camera-panoramic-head
http://www.mejiatryti.com/Panoramas/newdiyqtvrhead.html

But I am also evaluating if spending the time doing this didn´t worth 
spending some money to buy.


Sorry for the long email and thank you for any opinion,

Carlos.
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Possible fast preview enhancements

[tennevin.yves]

Tom Sharpless wrote:

Hi hugin developers,

While integrating the general panini projection, I have become a fan
of the fast preview window, which is now working very well indeed.
But it could work even better.  I have a few suggestions.

The numeric boxes for yaw, pitch, roll on the  "Move/Drag" tab of the
fast preview window do not display the current settings for the
panorama.  That should be easy to fix.  Maybe they could be changed to
spin boxes at the same time.

The numeric display boxes for the projection parameters should also be
spin boxes, so one could enter them numerically.

In the longer term, I wonder if we could add another tab to this
window that would let one adjust lens parameters interactively.  That
would be a big help when using hugin as a "de-fish" tool, and possibly
for manual lens calibration.

Regards, Tom

  

Since we are in the fast preview window field:
I am asking here, I don't know if anything I'll ask is planned or not.

First, I noticed that hugin is finally started to handle bracketting,
could there be some option to only display one image of a bracket and 
not all?
I think one way of doing it would be to just display the bracket and 
choosing a reference image per bracket to display.


Secondly, about bracket handling, are the bracket detectors available or 
planned?


Thirdly, is there (or could there be) some option to work with 
downsampled images in the preview? Does the caching works on full 
resolution actually, or is there some sort of scheme already used here?


Finally, about bracket handling and enfuse:
I do brackets with 7 shots ( from -2 EV to +2EV) with my camera.
Enfuse can offer the choice to enfuse 3,4,5,6 or 7 images of each 
bracket together.
Could this, in theory, be used to develop another way of correcting the 
luminance of the whole panorama,

(the typical case of having the sun somewhere in your panorama)
by merging specific images of the bracket according to a different 
settings for each bracket, supposedly we take the combinaison with the 
best luminance matches.
That supposes doing the alignement of brackets first, downsampling the 
image (eg: 4000x3000 to 120x90), merging all the possibility with 
enfuse, calculating the luminance distance from a set of points choosen 
between the two enfused version, and picking the setting with the least 
distance.







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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Moral questions

[tennevin.yves]

This has nothing to do with hugin.

Free / nonfree software can be pirated everywhere in the world, what
ever the local laws allowing this or not.
Using an illegal copy of a software, being photoshop, hugin, windows or
God know what is usually the user's responsability.

For the materials producted by the those illegaly packaged software,
they are usually legit.
That does not mean the one using them risk nothing.

It just means the copyright status of such medias is unrelated to how
they were created.

-- 
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http://esby.free.fr/contact.html



DaveN wrote:
> Copyright is largely ignored in China and other places so can people
> in those places copy your images or repackage Hugin?
>
> Bruno:  Where is the other place to discuss Hugin where I can find
> answers?
>
> On Dec 17, 7:31 am, "tennevin.yves"  wrote:
>   
>> Patents hold no ground in Europe.
>> The Berne convention can still be applied, what ever the licence you
>> choose for your image.
>> And to DaveN comment, I ain't infringing any patent while located in
>> Europe, so the moralistic opinion is bogus, but copyright laws can still
>> be applied in Europe.
>>
>> --
>> Yves Tennevin / esby  free.fr
>>
>> http://esby.free.fr/contact.html
>>
>> DaveN wrote:
>> 
>>> Sure the IP rights are separate but that was not the question.  If you
>>> create an image infringing on a patent, can you in all honesty be
>>> outraged if someone infringes on your rights to your image?
>>>   
>>> On Dec 17, 12:39 am, ArAgost  wrote:
>>>   
>>>> IANAL and I'm no expert on patents, but note that whatever are the
>>>> issues with the software, the intellectual property of the image is
>>>> completely separate.
>>>> 
>>>> On 17 Dic, 06:30, DaveN  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The best control point generators out there are SIFT based (or the
>>>>> software company doesn't tell you what the function is but it sure
>>>>> seems to operate like SIFT).  SIFT is patented however that patent is
>>>>> largely ignored on the grounds that such patents don't apply in all
>>>>> parts of the world.  The current downloads for Hugin barely mention
>>>>> the patent issue.
>>>>>   
>>>>> Copyrights are also largely ignored in some parts of the world.  Using
>>>>> the same logic as above, is it ok for someone in one of the parts of
>>>>> the world that largely ignore copyrights to repackage a version of
>>>>> Hugin and sell it as their own worldwide?  Would it be ok if they did
>>>>> so and only casually mentioned to the buyer to check their local laws
>>>>> for any issues that may concern them locally?
>>>>>   
>>>>> If someone makes a commercial image from Hugin using a SIFT control
>>>>> point generator and then posts the stitched image on the Internet and
>>>>> someone copies it, is that ok?
>>>>>   
>>>>> I'll duck now.
>>>>>   
>
>   

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: Moral questions

[tennevin.yves]

Patents hold no ground in Europe.
The Berne convention can still be applied, what ever the licence you
choose for your image.
And to DaveN comment, I ain't infringing any patent while located in
Europe, so the moralistic opinion is bogus, but copyright laws can still
be applied in Europe.

-- 
Yves Tennevin / esby  free.fr

http://esby.free.fr/contact.html



DaveN wrote:
> Sure the IP rights are separate but that was not the question.  If you
> create an image infringing on a patent, can you in all honesty be
> outraged if someone infringes on your rights to your image?
>
> On Dec 17, 12:39 am, ArAgost  wrote:
>   
>> IANAL and I'm no expert on patents, but note that whatever are the
>> issues with the software, the intellectual property of the image is
>> completely separate.
>>
>> On 17 Dic, 06:30, DaveN  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>> The best control point generators out there are SIFT based (or the
>>> software company doesn't tell you what the function is but it sure
>>> seems to operate like SIFT).  SIFT is patented however that patent is
>>> largely ignored on the grounds that such patents don't apply in all
>>> parts of the world.  The current downloads for Hugin barely mention
>>> the patent issue.
>>>   
>>> Copyrights are also largely ignored in some parts of the world.  Using
>>> the same logic as above, is it ok for someone in one of the parts of
>>> the world that largely ignore copyrights to repackage a version of
>>> Hugin and sell it as their own worldwide?  Would it be ok if they did
>>> so and only casually mentioned to the buyer to check their local laws
>>> for any issues that may concern them locally?
>>>   
>>> If someone makes a commercial image from Hugin using a SIFT control
>>> point generator and then posts the stitched image on the Internet and
>>> someone copies it, is that ok?
>>>   
>>> I'll duck now.
>>>   
>
>   

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[hugin-ptx] Re: manually creating fake control points with already aligned images.

[tennevin.yves]

Bruno Postle wrote:
> On Sun 02-Aug-2009 at 22:08 +0200, tennevin.yves wrote:
>   
>> Assuming the hugin model awaits images linked together via control 
>> points, could it be modified to allow hints to be passed to the 
>> control point maker, so only the matching images have to be 
>> compared?
>> 
>
> Yes, the way to do it is to extend the current system of specifying 
> input to autopano-sift-c via a .pto project.
>
> If this .pto project has approximate photo positions then 
> autopano-sift-c can use this to decide which photos are worth 
> comparing, and even which technique to use.
>
> (it can do this by precisely calculating overlapping area or simply 
> measuring angular distance and comparing it to photo angle of view)
>
>   
Wouldn't it better to let another tool do the job in detecting if two 
images overlap, or do you mean to have autopano-sift-c use the exact 
angle to detect cp in the control point area?
In the first case that would allow to not be dependant of 
autopano-sift-c for this task, (with a tool a bit like celeste but 
earlier in the chain...) for the second point that can help speeding the 
process, but would be limited to only autopano-sift-c, from my 
understanding.

esby / Y. Tennevin

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[hugin-ptx] Re: manually creating fake control points with already aligned images.

[tennevin.yves]

Bruno Postle wrote:
> On Fri 31-Jul-2009 at 11:05 +0200, tennevin yves wrote:
>   
>> Could there be a way to:
>> - mass align image manually? ( + or -36 72 108 or any other multiple of
>> a given angle)
>> 
>
> You can use an existing project as a template.
>
>   
>> - create fake control point with the fast preview window, so the
>> adjacent images become glued together.
>> 
>
> Not really, you can open each pair in the Control Point tab and hit  
> the 'g' key to create some control points, but this will be slow.
>
>   
>> So the resulting panorama can be shifted in the hugin fast preview.
>> 
>
> Not at the moment, it would be nice to have a modifier key to be 
> able to drag everything together, you could add this as a feature 
> request in the tracker.  Ctrl and Shift already do stuff in the Fast 
> Preview window drag mode, and Alt is grabbed by window managers, so 
> I would suggest Ctrl-Shift as a modifier combination.
>
>   
Assuming the hugin model awaits images linked together via control points,
could it be modified to allow hints to be passed to the control point 
maker, so only the matching images have to be compared?

By hint, I mean, an exact list of image to compare with, calculated with 
a given position of the images in the space, this position being either:
* not entered (all images match by default and all will be compared 
together, like hugin does it actually automatically.),
* entered manually (eg: we did an horizontal pano and added moved the 
images in the fast preview so they overlap correctly and the cp can be 
created between these.)
* entered via some GUI tricks or via templates, so the overlap are 
determined and the cp can be invoked correctly.

esby / Y. Tennevin

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Normal Output: What is Difference Between Blended and Remapped?

[tennevin.yves]

blended panorama creates the final output as one panorama file.

remapped images create remapped images that will need to be stitched
together with the corresponding software ( photoshop / gimp I think.)

-- 
Yves Tennevin / esby  free.fr




TomBrooklyn wrote:
>
> In Hugin's Stitcher Normal Output, what is the difference between a) Blended
> panorama and b) Remapped images?
>   

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[hugin-ptx] Re: What is difference between regular output and fused output?

[tennevin.yves]

Fused is supposed to be used when you have several images of the same
area with different exposure or different focused area.

-- 
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TomBrooklyn wrote:
>
> Why do I get two output files from hugin that look the same, but one labled
> "-fused?"
>
> When I create a pano in Hugin I get two output files.The second one
> looks identical to the first one and has the same file name but with the
> addition of the term "-fused."
>   

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[hugin-ptx] Re: upgrading hugin to 0.8

[tennevin.yves]

Under which OS?

-- 
Yves Tennevin / esby  free.fr




Doug wrote:
> Is it OK to install 0.8.0.rc5 on top of 0.7.0? Or do I need to remove 
> some files first?
> Doug
>
> >
>
>
>   

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Handling monopano HDR project with Hugin

[tennevin.yves]

Yuval Levy wrote:
> tennevin yves wrote:
>   
>> I've been using Hugin to created enfused or exr HDR files from sets of 
>> image that are not a panorama.
>> 
>
> is there a reason why you don't use Qtpfsgui or other HDR tools?
>   
The last time I tested Qtpsfsgui under Windows, the processing time was 
overkilling.
I remember trying FDRtools Basic and not finding it acceptable for my needs.
Picturenaut works fine in most of the cases, but there are cases where:
* alignement fails for some unknown reason, I am getting an error 
message in chinese at this step usually (as weird it seems).
* bracketting with my new camera is not detected correctly in 50% of the 
cases of recents sets I did.
I used hugin to do create an exr and to tonemap it with Picturenaut, but 
there were some cases where the OpenEXR bug strikes... so it makes 
things difficult.
In the worst case, I would be forced to rely on enfuse, with my old 
camera which did 3 exposures it could look crap.
With 7 exposures, it looks way better and becomes acceptable for my usage.
Still the solution is not practical.


esby / Y. Tennevin

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Handling monopano HDR project with Hugin

[tennevin.yves]

paul womack wrote:
> tennevin.yves wrote:
>   
>> paul womack wrote:
>> 
>
>   
>>> In particular, if you shoot using a tripod,
>>> alignment becomes a non issue, and your photos
>>> will probably be sharper as a side benefit.
>>>   
>>>   
>> Untrue.
>> Bracketed shots are still (slightly) shifted, even with a tripod, having 
>> a shift of 4-12 pixels is still possible.
>> 
>
> That's very odd - I've done many HDR sets on a tripod,
> and get 0 pixel error every time. I'm don't even see
> how they'd occur.
>
> What tripod/camera combination are you using?
>
> I'm using Canon A630 on a Manfrotto (old #144, from memory)
>
>   
Panasonic G1 with Manfrotto 715SHB.

>BugBear
>
>
>
>
>   

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[hugin-ptx] Re: Handling monopano HDR project with Hugin

[tennevin.yves]

paul womack wrote:
> tennevin yves wrote:
>   
>> So the question is:
>> Could we get a button in first tab like the current 'align' but named 
>> 'align monopano HDR images' (or something similar) to perform all the 
>> previously named operations 1- (2-) 3- and 4-.
>> so the user has to do 3-4 clicks and not 20 clicks here.
>> I am assuming the point (2-) needs some coding, but the points 1- 3- and 
>> 4- are just automation I think.
>> 
>
> I think altering the GUI of a panorama tool
> to improve a "special case" that isn't a
> panorama would be a poor GUI design approach
> for the majority of users.
>   
The button 'align' on the first tab is already a special case: should it 
be removed according to your argumentation?
How do you define the 'majority of users'? By the list of users which 
usages falls under one unique scenario covered by the 'align' button?
Or by the possible users that can use hugin extensively now and in the 
future?
Considering there are three scenarios of usage:
* bracketted photographs leading to HDR or enfused no-panorama.
* normal panorama (no-HDR / no-enfused).
* bracketted panorama leading to HDR or enfused panorama .
Offering the possibility to go faster when you are under those three 
cases would not be a poor gui design.
> I think what you need is better addressed
> using other tools, more directly intended
> for your task.
>   
So you are asking me to use other tools which are either non free, 
bugged, slower or not developped anymore?
> In particular, if you shoot using a tripod,
> alignment becomes a non issue, and your photos
> will probably be sharper as a side benefit.
>   
Untrue.
Bracketed shots are still (slightly) shifted, even with a tripod, having 
a shift of 4-12 pixels is still possible.
>BugBear
>
>   
Yves Tennevin / esby


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[hugin-ptx] Re: Stitching 128 pictures

[tennevin.yves]

Maxxer wrote:
> Hi...
>
> After some troubles, I manage to map the points of 128 pictures for a
> panorama. Now, after 10h of enblend, I got the following error:
> enblend: some images are redundant and will not be blended.
> Loading next image: pan0127.tif
> enblend: some images are redundant and will not be blended.
> Writing final output...
> Maximum supported image dimension is 65500 pixels
>
> enblend: an exception occured
> error in jpeg_start_compress()
>
>
> any hope to compose this pano?
>
> Thanks
> maxxer
>
> >
>
>
>   
You tried outputting to tif files?


-- 
Yves Tennevin  Tel:  04.94.14.24.91
Système d'Information, Applications et Développement
___
Centre de Ressources Informatiques Université du Sud Toulon - Var 
Fax:  04.94.14.26.87
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[hugin-ptx] Re: Enfuse artifact -- "Fairy ring"

[tennevin.yves]

I noticed the same kind of effect when trying to do non panorama HDR 
with vignetting correction enabled.
Did you tried without the vignetting correction?

esby  / Y. Tennevin

icysubdweller wrote:
> I'm wondering if anyone could give me a couple pointers on using
> Enfuse.  I decided to try it for the first time today, and you can see
> what happened by looking at the file "enfuse_fairy_ring.jpg" that I've
> uploaded.
>
> I put my camera on a tripod in my living room and was shooting towards
> the window in natural light.  I metered a proper exposure on the back
> of the couch at 2.5 secs at f5.6.  Up in the top left corner of the
> window (sky with branches) the meter said 1/1600th sec at f5.6.  It's
> a total difference of 10 EV.  I snapped 5 pictures, spaced somewhat
> unevenly through that exposure range.  When I blended them with Hugin,
> I went ahead and used autopano-sift-C to generate a few control points
> between the images (max of 8 points between each pair of images), and
> after that, I added a few other control points myself where I thought
> they might be useful.
>
> Then I stitched the images with the following process:
> 1.  On the Optimizer tab, I just clicked the "Optimize Now" button
> with whatever was the default.  It reported good alignment between all
> the images with average distance of 0.15 pixels.
> 2.  On the Exposure tab, I selected the "High dynamic range, fixed
> exposure" option on the menu and clicked "Optimize Now."  It reported
> what seemed like a large number (in the 25 range), but I didn't know
> what to expect, so I ignored that and went on.
> 3.  On the Stitcher tab, I pressed the Calculate the Field of View and
> Optimal Size buttons.  Then under Exposure Blending, I selected only
> the "Blended panorama (enfuse)" option... it was the only one of the
> boxes selected, nothing under Normal or Merge to HDR... and in File
> Formats area, I set both the Normal and HDR settings to TIFF.  Then I
> clicked "Stitch Now."
>
> And you see the result in the file "enfuse_fairy_ring.jpg".
>
> So... can anybody tell me what likely went wrong that produced that
> mondo bizarre artifact?  Is 10 EV just too wide an exposure range to
> expect good results from enfuse?  Is my method incorrect?  Do I even
> need control points to use enfuse, or does Hugin just ignore them?
> Or, even if Hugin doesn't ignore them, can I skip that step and JUST
> use enfuse and forget about perspective correction?  Do I need to
> select different options for the Optimizer, Exposure, or Stitcher tabs
> to get the best results?
>
> Thanks for any help you can give me!
> Rodney
>
>
>
>
> >
>
>
>   

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[hugin-ptx] Re: nona -r hdr creates INF pixels

[tennevin.yves]

This looks related to  this bug:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1850361&group_id=77506&atid=550441

Yves Tennevin / esby


David Brodsky wrote:
> Hi,
>
> [ Andrew, I'm Ccing you because I don't know if you're on the list ]
>
> first of all, thanks for the great tool (hugin). But I've run into a
> problem I can't solve. When I try to create hdr panorama with hugin,
> some areas looks like [1]. The red areas actually represents pixels with
> infinite values in red channel.
>
> At first I thought it was an error in enblend, but now I've discovered
> that nona creates one pixel with infinite value in red channel. I've put
> all necessary files at [2]. If I do
>
> nona -r hdr -m EXR_m -o small1-small9_hdr_ -i 4 small1-small9.pto
>
> then the output contains bad pixel. Its coords are x: 227 y: 247,
> counting from zero. I can imagine that this makes enblend create bad
> areas, because infinity propagates all the way through the pyramids.
> (This is only my guess).
>
> So I think that it is an error that nona creates a pixel with infinite
> value and therefor looses any precision.
>
> One final thing: As you can see on the image [1] there is something what
> looks like black dashed horizontal lines. This is caused by
> hugin_hdrmerge which creates images like [3]. See dots on the left and
> line on the bottom. Again I thing this can make enblend create pictures
> with errors.
>
> Please let me know if there is anything I can do to correct these errors
> or help invastigating.
>
> Regards
>
> David Brodsky
>
> P.S. Andrew, as you can see you can discard my previous email to you
> because it may not be an error in enfuse. Thanks.
>
> [1]: http://trekie.sinister.cz/enblend.jpg
> [2]: http://trekie.sinister.cz/nona-inf.zip
> [3]: http://trekie.sinister.cz/nona.jpg
>
> >
>
>
>   



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