[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
Hi Matt, Matt Williams wrote: 2009/9/22 Pablo d'Angelo pablo.dang...@web.de: At work, we have a full frame camera system ( 3xCanon EOS-1d) with 50 mm lenses. Flying that at 1000m gives reasonable detail when looking straight down and the imaged area is much larger than with your example images, making them easier to handle. Ok. That's definitely something worth considering for the future. For the shots you've seen, the camera was provided by whoever in the area had a camera and free time for when the plane was booked. It's possible we could obtain a higher quality camera as a community. Actually, the camera was ok, but maybe just use a wider angle lens and do mostly downward looking shots, and fly higher, if possible. Flying higher will also make the mosaicing and interpretation of the pictures easier. Btw. real aerial cameras (for example. UltraCam http://www.microsoft.com/ultracam/default.mspx ), as used by the mapping agencies, are probably 50 to 100 times as expensive as a Canon EOS 1D something. ciao Pablo --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching (using new mosaic mode)
I toyed with this (in Linux, and with the latest SVN). Being me, I tried to push the envelope and see if it can be used for a large linear panorama riddled with obstacles, parallax, and all funny things to deal with. The good news is that TiX, TiY, TiZ is *very promising*. The bad news is that the process is extremely dependent on having all CPs on a single plane - just the relief on the brick walls I shot seems to be enough to generate significant error. The best I got it down was around RMS 6, although at one attempt I even got to RMS 4. Bruno Postle wrote: On Wed 23-Sep-2009 at 00:37 +0200, Pablo d'Angelo wrote: Quick procedure: 1. panomatic -o 539-549.pto *.jpg lots of CPs to prune after this stage. I guess I am better off with manually setting them. Do I understand correctly that if I use a calibrated lens and optimize only for y,p,r,TiX,TiY,TiZ I need six CPs per image pair? 2. hugin 539-549.pto - set focal length to 50mm (~ HFOV 26°) I guess this is specific to the 539-549 project? I left the focal length from EXIF. - open fast preview - set projection to rectilinear, - select hfov and vfov ~ 100 - show only the first image. - use the drag tool to move the first image so that it roughly looking like a nadir image I moved the middle image in my sequence to be the first image on the list; and then I moved it down to the nadir by editing the pitch value in the Images tab. When I was using rectilinear projection in the rest of the process, it would only render a part of the image. I ended up setting projection to equirect HFOV360 VFOV180. - select all images again - Go to the optimizer tab, select (optimize y,p,r) - tick edit script - copy script into a text file 539.549.txt - Edit script, add Tx0.1 Ty0.1 Tz0.1 to i lines, except for the first one. - modify the v lines to include Tx# Ty# Tz# (where # is the image number) - run PToptimizer 539-549.txt - run PTmender -o 539-549 539-549.txt - run PTroller -o 539-549.tif 539-5490*.tif done everything as above. then I loaded the resuting equirect in Hugin. The image is on the nadir. I reprojected it to rectilinear and set the appropriate view. Because it is quite long I get some distorsion at the extremes (and the rectilinear needs to be projected on 150°). maybe I should have set a longer focal length / smaller HFOV at step 2 instead of using the EXIF, to simulate more distance from the sphere and thus get a longer panorama within a reasonable HFOV for the rectilinear projection? Works for me, I also found that I can successfully optimise lens parameters: I also tried with optimizing lens parameters. a/b/c work. I did not try to optimize FOV (v?). When I tried to optimize d and e I got the btter RMS but the images where very much shifted. ..so when can we have this in Hugin? ;-) I guess the answer is: when the layout branch is merged to trunk. what is its status? Yuv --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching (using new mosaic mode)
On Wed 23-Sep-2009 at 15:54 -0700, Daniel M. German wrote: did you try optimizing using the tilt model? Tx, Ty and Ts (try those before you try Tz). I'll be curious to see what happens. Sorry, I only tried Pablo's modified version. Could you post the script so I can try it? Thanks! I think I put all the photos and the script here: http://bugbear.postle.net/~bruno/misc/DSC00169-DSC00184.zip This is quite an extreme example, I deliberately took photos from lots of different angles and distances. Works for me, I also found that I can successfully optimise lens parameters: http://www.flickr.com/photos/36383...@n00/3947727801/ -- Bruno --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching (using new mosaic mode)
2009/9/23 Oskar Sander oskar.san...@gmail.com: Is it possible to view the source images to this example? Go to http://78.46.66.234/jpeg1600/ and scroll down to image DSC00539.jpg Pablo used DSC00539.jpg through to DSC00549.jpg to create the image above. There are higher resolution versions at http://78.46.66.234/jpeghigh/. -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Dale Beams schreef: There is software out there for model RC planes that will allow you to use an altimeter and get a constant height with a gps combo It'll fly a grid pattern as well. Yeah right, does that 'software out there' also stitch photo's taken from different altitudes? Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkq6HV8ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0/8gCfcv6MpQHZ65bSMypEsBLiKUGY fjcAmQGe6HA6zZXgqIsnFfMdHpaGoeHY =AxDZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching (using new mosaic mode)
Thanks, I see. So the method was to take one shot as straight down as possible and then to take consecutive shots panning out towards the horizon perpendicular to the flightpath, and then repeat that procedure from the downward view, right? I think the result looks really nice Pablo! It would be really interesting if the result continue to come out as nice if some more pic in the flightpath (= even more x y camera shift) are included in the project like with adding these pictures. DSC00554-555 558-559-560 562-563-564 Cheers /O --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Dale Beams schreef: One doesn't need to take at different heights if your locking in your height from ground to plane. I live in the Plains and everything is flat. Likewise here. But still if one blow of wind can take a quad copter about 2 meters down. That *does* matter, optically. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkq6QP0ACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2UhACbBiLfIQK8Oa37mz5xZOg5GSjt 2VYAn0HHSbWKUoMrUZ94ZclhBYyr4JRk =ykDT -END PGP SIGNATURE- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching (using new mosaic mode)
On Wed 23-Sep-2009 at 00:37 +0200, Pablo d'Angelo wrote: Quick procedure: 1. panomatic -o 539-549.pto *.jpg 2. hugin 539-549.pto - set focal length to 50mm (~ HFOV 26°) - open fast preview - set projection to rectilinear, - select hfov and vfov ~ 100 - show only the first image. - use the drag tool to move the first image so that it roughly looking like a nadir image - select all images again - Go to the optimizer tab, select (optimize y,p,r) - tick edit script - copy script into a text file 539.549.txt - Edit script, add Tx0.1 Ty0.1 Tz0.1 to i lines, except for the first one. - modify the v lines to include Tx# Ty# Tz# (where # is the image number) - run PToptimizer 539-549.txt - run PTmender -o 539-549 539-549.txt - run PTroller -o 539-549.tif 539-5490*.tif - crop 539-549.tif in your favorite image editor. Works for me, I also found that I can successfully optimise lens parameters: http://www.flickr.com/photos/36383...@n00/3947727801/ ..so when can we have this in Hugin? ;-) -- Bruno --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching (using new mosaic mode)
Hi Bruno, did you try optimizing using the tilt model? Tx, Ty and Ts (try those before you try Tz). I'll be curious to see what happens. Could you post the script so I can try it? Thanks! --dmg On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 11:44 AM, Bruno Postle br...@postle.net wrote: On Wed 23-Sep-2009 at 00:37 +0200, Pablo d'Angelo wrote: Quick procedure: 1. panomatic -o 539-549.pto *.jpg 2. hugin 539-549.pto - set focal length to 50mm (~ HFOV 26°) - open fast preview - set projection to rectilinear, - select hfov and vfov ~ 100 - show only the first image. - use the drag tool to move the first image so that it roughly looking like a nadir image - select all images again - Go to the optimizer tab, select (optimize y,p,r) - tick edit script - copy script into a text file 539.549.txt - Edit script, add Tx0.1 Ty0.1 Tz0.1 to i lines, except for the first one. - modify the v lines to include Tx# Ty# Tz# (where # is the image number) - run PToptimizer 539-549.txt - run PTmender -o 539-549 539-549.txt - run PTroller -o 539-549.tif 539-5490*.tif - crop 539-549.tif in your favorite image editor. Works for me, I also found that I can successfully optimise lens parameters: http://www.flickr.com/photos/36383...@n00/3947727801/ ..so when can we have this in Hugin? ;-) -- Bruno -- --dmg --- Daniel M. German http://turingmachine.org --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
Hi Matt, If you experiment on this further, it would be really sweet if you did a tutorial writeup here even if it doesn't work out perfect right now. 0. Get and compile the current trunk of libpano13 If you so happens to build panotools on windows, pls drop me a mail. (and I'll give this a try too) 4. Now you need to select which variables to optimize, using by adding them to the v line in optimize.txt. I would try optimizing roll, pitch, yaw and Tx, Ty, Ts for all but the first image. Run $ PToptimizer optimize.txt to perform the optimisation. Check the file to see some information about the errors. Here some trial and error with different parameter sets is probably needed. I would think you should optimize for x(d), y(e), Tx, Ty, Tz and Ts. Yaw, pitch and roll would put the result off, as it is done though panorama center and not camera center. Cheers -- /O --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
2009/9/21 Pablo d'Angelo pablo.dang...@web.de: Hi Matt, The general workflow for proper orthorectification (as used by the professionals) is: 1. Measure some ground control points (GCPs) in the images. These associate an image point with a 3D world position (lat, lon, height). If a full bundle adjustment is used, this is not needed for every images as tie points (called control points in hugin) can also be used. These are usually measured against maps, orthoimages, gps traces. The height is often derived from the SRTM dataset, or from high precision GPS measurements with post processing at specific corner (centre of roundabouts etc.). 2. With the GCPs and tie points, the position and orientation of each photo is estimated using bundle adjustment. This works a bit similar to what hugin/panotools does, but it solves for full 3D geometry. 3. Orthorectification is preformed using the estimated positions and orientations and a digital terrain model. If there is a lot of overlap in the photos, the terrain model can also be computed from the photos itself (This is actually what I currently do in my day job). All data that is required for this is freely available. You can use well traces streets in OSM for establishing the ground control points in step 1). The SRTM model required for orthorectification is available in the public domain (at least for areas south of 60° northern latitude). The main problem is that there is no complete open source software package for this job. All the components are available in various software packages, but they are not integrated: - Tie points can be created in hugin or with other matching software. With a bit of scripting, GCPs can be derived from tie points measured against OSM maps (its just coordinate transformation and lookup in the elevation model). - A complete package that takes care of most steps required for 1) and 2) is bundler, http://phototour.cs.washington.edu/bundler/ however, this is not designed to handle ground control points, so it won't give you absolute coordinates. It uses a customized version of SBA http://www.ics.forth.gr/~lourakis/sba/ for the bundle adjustment. SBA recently been extended so that it supports both tie points and ground control points. Yes, I've been experimenting with using bundler for analysing the camera positions but it's fairly undocumented so it'll be a while before I can get it to work for me. I'll also have a closer look at SBA. I've compiled the latest version so I'll see what it can tell me. - Orthorectification can be done using open source remote sensing software packages such as http://www.ossim.org or http://www.orfeo-toolbox.org. However, these packages are mostly designed for handling commercial satellite and aerial imagery, and I'm not sure if the support a simple camera model. I'll have a look at them to see if they can be of any use. Even if they're not suitable for our purpose, I'm sure that I'll learn something :) Then there is e-foto, which I have just downloaded as tried, but I didn't manage to do something useful with it. Yes, I've got e-foto but I couldn't get it to do anything useful either yet. It seems it's more of a research project and as such, it's rather underdocumented (at least in English). So the correct way to produce nice orthophotos as shown by the map providers is not that simple using open source software, and needs quite some gluing together of several packages. Hugin is currently not really suited for aligning all your images. However, the latest work in panotools (as mentioned in the reply by Lukas) might help if your area is reasonably flat. The new parameters Tx, Ty and Ts parameters in panotools should allow you to orthorectify your images to a plane. As these are are very new, they are not supported in hugin yet. This means that you need to use the panotools script interface from the command line directly. Maybe the following procedure might work (disclamer: I haven't tried anything of that myself!): 0. Get and compile the current trunk of libpano13 1. Load a few overlapping images captured from different viewpoints (maybe start with 3 or so) into hugin, and create a few good control points between them (make sure that they are good, to avoid confusion due to mismatched control points later on). Try to load a very well downwards looking image as first image. This image will define the plane to which the other images are warped later on. Do not optimize yet. Make sure that the field of view of the images is reasonably correct. (Computation from EXIF data is probably good for the first try). 2. Set the projection to rectilinear, and choose a wide HFOV and VFOV, such as 90 degrees or so. Press the compute optimum size button. 3. Export everything as panotools compatible project. The 100% bulletproof way is to go to the optimisation tab, tick the edit script before optimisation (or similar) checkbox,
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
2009/9/22 Oskar Sander oskar.san...@gmail.com: Hi Matt, If you experiment on this further, it would be really sweet if you did a tutorial writeup here even if it doesn't work out perfect right now. I absolutely will. This won't be the last time that OSM hire a plane for some aerial photography and so it's important that we find a decent way of doing it. The final images (like the source images) will be creative-commons licensed and will be available to the public for tracing (or whatever) so I'll be sure to update this list when I've got something good-looking. 0. Get and compile the current trunk of libpano13 If you so happens to build panotools on windows, pls drop me a mail. (and I'll give this a try too) Sorry, I'm on Linux. I found Panotools really quick and easy to build though. 4. Now you need to select which variables to optimize, using by adding them to the v line in optimize.txt. I would try optimizing roll, pitch, yaw and Tx, Ty, Ts for all but the first image. Run $ PToptimizer optimize.txt to perform the optimisation. Check the file to see some information about the errors. Here some trial and error with different parameter sets is probably needed. I would think you should optimize for x(d), y(e), Tx, Ty, Tz and Ts. Yaw, pitch and roll would put the result off, as it is done though panorama center and not camera center. Ok, I'll have a try with those parameters to see if it gives any better results. I'm still getting used to the notations and parameters used by Panotools so I'm pretty much going by what people suggest and trial and error at the moment. -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Matt Williams schreef: 2009/9/22 Oskar Sander oskar.san...@gmail.com: Hi Matt, If you experiment on this further, it would be really sweet if you did a tutorial writeup here even if it doesn't work out perfect right now. I absolutely will. This won't be the last time that OSM hire a plane for some aerial photography and so it's important that we find a decent way of doing it. Thats why we got money for http://www.openstreetphoto.org/ see our blog: http://blog.opengeo.nl/ We have two aircrafts and get two more, this time 3 meter wide electro-gliders :) Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkq42eAACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn1VaQCeNMnl08L9SyZTzM8zIkexmDCt GaoAoIFiKZtVOpH4N7jW7Nl/eydxBoIw =9oji -END PGP SIGNATURE- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
2009/9/22 Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de: Matt Williams schreef: 2009/9/22 Oskar Sander oskar.san...@gmail.com: Hi Matt, If you experiment on this further, it would be really sweet if you did a tutorial writeup here even if it doesn't work out perfect right now. I absolutely will. This won't be the last time that OSM hire a plane for some aerial photography and so it's important that we find a decent way of doing it. Thats why we got money for http://www.openstreetphoto.org/ see our blog: http://blog.opengeo.nl/ We have two aircrafts and get two more, this time 3 meter wide electro-gliders :) Hey Stefan. I was wondering when you might turn up. I guessed you don't read talk...@osm.org but I knew you were working on stuff in this area. From what I could tell, you haven't made much progress with processing the images yet (although I do like the quadcopter thing :D). If I'm mistaken or if you could be of help with the Stratford Imagery it would be much appreciated. I haven't been able to find any mailing list discussions of your work. In the mean time, I've found that some people have started a project based on Orfeo-toolbox for simplifying the workflow and it sounds like it could be useful for our purpose, they even mention OpenStreetMap (http://wiki.orfeo-toolbox.org/index.php/Monteverdi). Perhaps we'd do well to take this discussion to an OSM list of some kind (maybe 'photos@' or 'talk@')? -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Matt Williams schreef: Hey Stefan. I was wondering when you might turn up. I have posted bounties on this list for increasing documentation and for features ;) So I turned up well before you ;) I guessed you don't read talk...@osm.org but I knew you were working on stuff in this area. From what I could tell, you haven't made much progress with processing the images yet (although I do like the quadcopter thing :D). If I'm mistaken or if you could be of help with the Stratford Imagery it would be much appreciated. I haven't been able to find any mailing list discussions of your work. We did; we have a rectifying program, and like I posted before I was pointed myself to efoto. From there on we can use qgis and mapserver for final positioning. Come and idle in #osp on oftc ;) In the mean time, I've found that some people have started a project based on Orfeo-toolbox for simplifying the workflow and it sounds like it could be useful for our purpose, they even mention OpenStreetMap (http://wiki.orfeo-toolbox.org/index.php/Monteverdi). I guess we should all focus on implementations that already exist? Perhaps we'd do well to take this discussion to an OSM list of some kind (maybe 'photos@' or 'talk@')? Also a possibility. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkq5A0IACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2APwCfczUDKoqrodPiNVdbp/H8kYar mogAn0hnBJuWS3MZamAAXdPzFFlIrnpr =ZbO+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
Hi Matt, This is the method I had been using before, but obviously without the Tilt parameters and so it really struggled. Actually, I played around a little, and I wasn't satisfied with the tilt parameters, so changed libpano to allow estimate the X,Y and Z camera position (assuming a planar earth). I still need to do some final testing, but so far it doesn't look too bad. Thanks a lot for all your suggestions. I think I'm going to have to get a working group together within OSM to try to work on these problems. This experiment with aerial photography will likely be repeated again and so I feel it's worthwhile for us to create a strong open source workflow for creating full stitched images. Please keep me updated. Where do you discuss these issues? ciao Pablo --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
Matt Williams wrote: 2009/9/22 Oskar Sander oskar.san...@gmail.com: Hi Matt, If you experiment on this further, it would be really sweet if you did a tutorial writeup here even if it doesn't work out perfect right now. I absolutely will. This won't be the last time that OSM hire a plane for some aerial photography and so it's important that we find a decent way of doing it. I have played a little with the images, and from my perspective, it would be more usable, if the camera with a wide angle lens (maybe 28 mm instead of 50 mm) would be used especially for the nadir shots. Flying at a higher altitude will probably also help. They probably still have enough detail for mapping (you probably do not need 5 cm ground resolution or so, 10 or 20 cm are probably enough to recognize most details required for mapping. At work, we have a full frame camera system ( 3xCanon EOS-1d) with 50 mm lenses. Flying that at 1000m gives reasonable detail when looking straight down and the imaged area is much larger than with your example images, making them easier to handle. ciao Pablo --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
Stefan de Konink wrote: We did; we have a rectifying program, and like I posted before I was pointed myself to efoto. From there on we can use qgis and mapserver for final positioning. Come and idle in #osp on oftc ;) Do you have a procedure that works nicely for the large amount of image? I couldn't find anything on http://www.openstreetphoto.org ? ciao Pablo --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
2009/9/22 Pablo d'Angelo pablo.dang...@web.de: Hi Matt, This is the method I had been using before, but obviously without the Tilt parameters and so it really struggled. Actually, I played around a little, and I wasn't satisfied with the tilt parameters, so changed libpano to allow estimate the X,Y and Z camera position (assuming a planar earth). I still need to do some final testing, but so far it doesn't look too bad. I see you've checked some of these changes into SVN, I've uncommented the '#define MOSAIC_XYZ 1' line in adjust.c. Is there anything I need to do elsewhere to allow it estimate these variables? Thanks a lot for all your suggestions. I think I'm going to have to get a working group together within OSM to try to work on these problems. This experiment with aerial photography will likely be repeated again and so I feel it's worthwhile for us to create a strong open source workflow for creating full stitched images. Please keep me updated. Where do you discuss these issues? Well, I only got involved in this a few days ago but Stefan de Konink has been looking at this for a while now. As I understand it, most discussion has gone on in the Dutch language list so far. -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
2009/9/22 Pablo d'Angelo pablo.dang...@web.de: Matt Williams wrote: 2009/9/22 Oskar Sander oskar.san...@gmail.com: Hi Matt, If you experiment on this further, it would be really sweet if you did a tutorial writeup here even if it doesn't work out perfect right now. I absolutely will. This won't be the last time that OSM hire a plane for some aerial photography and so it's important that we find a decent way of doing it. I have played a little with the images, and from my perspective, it would be more usable, if the camera with a wide angle lens (maybe 28 mm instead of 50 mm) would be used especially for the nadir shots. Flying at a higher altitude will probably also help. They probably still have enough detail for mapping (you probably do not need 5 cm ground resolution or so, 10 or 20 cm are probably enough to recognize most details required for mapping. At work, we have a full frame camera system ( 3xCanon EOS-1d) with 50 mm lenses. Flying that at 1000m gives reasonable detail when looking straight down and the imaged area is much larger than with your example images, making them easier to handle. Ok. That's definitely something worth considering for the future. For the shots you've seen, the camera was provided by whoever in the area had a camera and free time for when the plane was booked. It's possible we could obtain a higher quality camera as a community. I guess Stefan won't want to spend his grant money on a camera that is too heavy for a Quadcopter :) -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
Matt Williams wrote: 2009/9/22 Pablo d'Angelo pablo.dang...@web.de: Hi Matt, This is the method I had been using before, but obviously without the Tilt parameters and so it really struggled. Actually, I played around a little, and I wasn't satisfied with the tilt parameters, so changed libpano to allow estimate the X,Y and Z camera position (assuming a planar earth). I still need to do some final testing, but so far it doesn't look too bad. I see you've checked some of these changes into SVN, I've uncommented the '#define MOSAIC_XYZ 1' line in adjust.c. Is there anything I need to do elsewhere to allow it estimate these variables? No. With these you could just try to optimize y,p,r,Tx,Ty,Tz for all images except the first one. ciao Pablo --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching (using new mosaic mode)
Pablo d'Angelo schrieb: Matt Williams wrote: 2009/9/22 Pablo d'Angelo pablo.dang...@web.de: Hi Matt, This is the method I had been using before, but obviously without the Tilt parameters and so it really struggled. Actually, I played around a little, and I wasn't satisfied with the tilt parameters, so changed libpano to allow estimate the X,Y and Z camera position (assuming a planar earth). I still need to do some final testing, but so far it doesn't look too bad. I see you've checked some of these changes into SVN, I've uncommented the '#define MOSAIC_XYZ 1' line in adjust.c. Is there anything I need to do elsewhere to allow it estimate these variables? No. With these you could just try to optimize y,p,r,Tx,Ty,Tz for all images except the first one. There is a bug in panotools. Sometimes it does not optimize parameters if they are exactly set to 0. This seems to affect the Tx, Ty and Tz parameters as well (a,b,c parameters are the other parameter that suffer from this). So simply add Tx0.1 Ty0.1 Tz0.1 to i lines, except for the first one. Note: the names of the Tx, Ty, Tz parameters are only valid with the current svn and the MOSAIC_XYZ define in adjust.c. They will be available under another name in the future (probably just X Y Z). Here is the result of merging images 539-549 from http://vps-1005786-1584.united-hoster.de/tmp/539-549.jpg It is not referenced to an OSM map (too late in the evening...), but the result looks very promising. It also shows that the sideward views are probably not that helpful for mapping, at least when reprojecting them. Quick procedure: 1. panomatic -o 539-549.pto *.jpg 2. hugin 539-549.pto - set focal length to 50mm (~ HFOV 26°) - open fast preview - set projection to rectilinear, - select hfov and vfov ~ 100 - show only the first image. - use the drag tool to move the first image so that it roughly looking like a nadir image - select all images again - Go to the optimizer tab, select (optimize y,p,r) - tick edit script - copy script into a text file 539.549.txt - Edit script, add Tx0.1 Ty0.1 Tz0.1 to i lines, except for the first one. - modify the v lines to include Tx# Ty# Tz# (where # is the image number) - run PToptimizer 539-549.txt - run PTmender -o 539-549 539-549.txt - run PTroller -o 539-549.tif 539-5490*.tif - crop 539-549.tif in your favorite image editor. ciao Pablo --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Pablo d'Angelo schreef: Do you have a procedure that works nicely for the large amount of image? Next to just adding them to Hugin and per photo stitching we don't have it. But I saw your last email and I wonder: How did you solve the altitude difference? Because we have many problems with that. If in one flight different altitudes were flown hugin really can't stitch it. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkq5UtYACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2qmQCfTiYr4LxyjFtMO+HVa1em2Jw9 Lw0AnjryTx1OfjSylBBltgHSAh68yvIW =VKWd -END PGP SIGNATURE- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
There is software out there for model RC planes that will allow you to use an altimeter and get a constant height with a gps combo It'll fly a grid pattern as well. Dale Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 00:42:30 +0200 From: ste...@konink.de To: hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com Subject: [hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Pablo d'Angelo schreef: Do you have a procedure that works nicely for the large amount of image? Next to just adding them to Hugin and per photo stitching we don't have it. But I saw your last email and I wonder: How did you solve the altitude difference? Because we have many problems with that. If in one flight different altitudes were flown hugin really can't stitch it. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkq5UtYACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn2qmQCfTiYr4LxyjFtMO+HVa1em2Jw9 Lw0AnjryTx1OfjSylBBltgHSAh68yvIW =VKWd -END PGP SIGNATURE- _ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that’s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
Hi Matt 2009/9/21 Matt Williams li...@milliams.com: Hi guys, I've only recently discovered Hugin so I'm still getting used to it so bear in mind that there's probably still plenty I'm missing. I'm a mapper for OpenStreetMap (http://openstreetmap.org), a project to create a free map of the world. Recently someone sponsored a round of amateur aerial photography of the area around the town of Stratford- upon-Avon in the UK. We now have the full set of aerial imagery (around 900 photos) of the whole town from various directions and at various angles to the vertical. You can see a summary of the data at http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/stats.php and http://milliams.com/verticalitymetre/map.html (where a low number score is more vertical). Now, we've got to the stage where we would like to be able to rectify this imagery to the map and stitch all this imagery together in a mostly seamless way. Perhaps Hugin/Panorama Tools isn't really what I should be using for this but it's so close to doing what we need, I'd be surprised if it couldn't be coerced into shape. The method I've been using so far (and I've only done a few small tests with it, nothing large scale) is based on http://www.dojoe.net/tutorials/linear-pano/ and is to select a few (that's only 2 or 3 so far) overlapping images which are very nearly vertical, add them to Hugin and deselect the 'Image Center Shift' link for the lens. I've autopano-sift'd them to add control points. Then, I've added a png of a map image (from openstreetmap) as the first image, set a different lens number for it (made up a DoV of about 10 degrees) and set it as the position anchor. Then I've manually added control points (by hand) between each of the images and the map in order to try to coerce Hugin to align the images to the map. I then enblend the remapped images together (excluding the map png) and upload it to http://warper.geothings.net/ which is our map warper for aligning it to the map. This allows me to slightly tweak the rectification to make it match the map more closely. This mostly works for small image clusters but I am ofter getting divergence from the map at the edge of the image. What I would like to ask is whether anyone has any experience with this sort of work and has some suggestions about the best way to do it or if Hugin/Panorama Tools really isn't suitable for the job. I've looked through a paper published on this topic at http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~pesti/pubs/mapstitcher.pdf and it seems to suggest the best results are achieved when doing the stitching and ortho-rectification (and map alignment) at the same time to avoid cumulative errors (as seen at http://warper.geothings.net/uploads/1315/original/test3.jpg, that main road should be almost straight). Thoughts/suggestions/revelations? Regards, Matt Williams http://milliams.com First, there are some new tilt options to the panorama tools (Tx, Ty, Tz and Ts) but doesn't use them yet. I'd try to load map into hugin and manually add control points to photos and corresponding parts of map. Then optimize with map set as anchor image. This would hopefully transform images to fit map directly in hugin. And for stitching I'de disable the map so it doesn't blend with photos by coincidence. Anyway, interesting project. regards, Lukas --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
2009/9/21 Lukáš Jirkovský l.jirkov...@gmail.com: First, there are some new tilt options to the panorama tools (Tx, Ty, Tz and Ts) but doesn't use them yet. I've had a look through the archives and I see that the options you mention could indeed be very useful. What version of Hugin are these likely to turn up in? I don't mind building from source but I'd like to know which branch to get. Or should I just grab trunk? I'd try to load map into hugin and manually add control points to photos and corresponding parts of map. Then optimize with map set as anchor image. This would hopefully transform images to fit map directly in hugin. And for stitching I'de disable the map so it doesn't blend with photos by coincidence. Yes, that's what I've been doing so far but I'm unable to stitch together more than about 3 images before it significantly deviates (as in ~20 ground distance) from the map. The tilt options should help with this, even if they don't allow me to stitch any more together at once but only allow the images to be more accurate. Really for our purposes, accurately conforming to the ground truth is more important than seamless blending or colour balance (though they would help). -- Matt Williams http://milliams.com --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
Hi Matt, The general workflow for proper orthorectification (as used by the professionals) is: 1. Measure some ground control points (GCPs) in the images. These associate an image point with a 3D world position (lat, lon, height). If a full bundle adjustment is used, this is not needed for every images as tie points (called control points in hugin) can also be used. These are usually measured against maps, orthoimages, gps traces. The height is often derived from the SRTM dataset, or from high precision GPS measurements with post processing at specific corner (centre of roundabouts etc.). 2. With the GCPs and tie points, the position and orientation of each photo is estimated using bundle adjustment. This works a bit similar to what hugin/panotools does, but it solves for full 3D geometry. 3. Orthorectification is preformed using the estimated positions and orientations and a digital terrain model. If there is a lot of overlap in the photos, the terrain model can also be computed from the photos itself (This is actually what I currently do in my day job). All data that is required for this is freely available. You can use well traces streets in OSM for establishing the ground control points in step 1). The SRTM model required for orthorectification is available in the public domain (at least for areas south of 60° northern latitude). The main problem is that there is no complete open source software package for this job. All the components are available in various software packages, but they are not integrated: - Tie points can be created in hugin or with other matching software. With a bit of scripting, GCPs can be derived from tie points measured against OSM maps (its just coordinate transformation and lookup in the elevation model). - A complete package that takes care of most steps required for 1) and 2) is bundler, http://phototour.cs.washington.edu/bundler/ however, this is not designed to handle ground control points, so it won't give you absolute coordinates. It uses a customized version of SBA http://www.ics.forth.gr/~lourakis/sba/ for the bundle adjustment. SBA recently been extended so that it supports both tie points and ground control points. - Orthorectification can be done using open source remote sensing software packages such as http://www.ossim.org or http://www.orfeo-toolbox.org. However, these packages are mostly designed for handling commercial satellite and aerial imagery, and I'm not sure if the support a simple camera model. Then there is e-foto, which I have just downloaded as tried, but I didn't manage to do something useful with it. So the correct way to produce nice orthophotos as shown by the map providers is not that simple using open source software, and needs quite some gluing together of several packages. Hugin is currently not really suited for aligning all your images. However, the latest work in panotools (as mentioned in the reply by Lukas) might help if your area is reasonably flat. The new parameters Tx, Ty and Ts parameters in panotools should allow you to orthorectify your images to a plane. As these are are very new, they are not supported in hugin yet. This means that you need to use the panotools script interface from the command line directly. Maybe the following procedure might work (disclamer: I haven't tried anything of that myself!): 0. Get and compile the current trunk of libpano13 1. Load a few overlapping images captured from different viewpoints (maybe start with 3 or so) into hugin, and create a few good control points between them (make sure that they are good, to avoid confusion due to mismatched control points later on). Try to load a very well downwards looking image as first image. This image will define the plane to which the other images are warped later on. Do not optimize yet. Make sure that the field of view of the images is reasonably correct. (Computation from EXIF data is probably good for the first try). 2. Set the projection to rectilinear, and choose a wide HFOV and VFOV, such as 90 degrees or so. Press the compute optimum size button. 3. Export everything as panotools compatible project. The 100% bulletproof way is to go to the optimisation tab, tick the edit script before optimisation (or similar) checkbox, press Optimize and select the text of the checkbox and save it into a textfile named optimize.txt 4. Now you need to select which variables to optimize, using by adding them to the v line in optimize.txt. I would try optimizing roll, pitch, yaw and Tx, Ty, Ts for all but the first image. Run $ PToptimizer optimize.txt to perform the optimisation. Check the file to see some information about the errors. Here some trial and error with different parameter sets is probably needed. 5. Test remapping the images with PTmender: $ PTmendler optimize.txt 6. Combine the without any blending using PTroller $ PTroller -o output.tif remapped1.tif remapped2.tif
[hugin-ptx] Re: Aerial Photography Stitching
Pablo d'Angelo wrote: Hi Matt, The general workflow for proper orthorectification (as used by the professionals) is: 1. Measure some ground control points (GCPs) in the images. These associate an image point with a 3D world position (lat, lon, height). If a full bundle adjustment is used, this is not needed for every images as tie points (called control points in hugin) can also be used. These are usually measured against maps, orthoimages, gps traces. The height is often derived from the SRTM dataset, or from high precision GPS measurements with post processing at specific corner (centre of roundabouts etc.). Sorry, this was confusing. This is a better explanation: Tie point are measured between the images, Ground Control points are measured between the image and some reference data (maps, gps traces, digital elevation models, geodetic gps measurements etc.). ciao Pablo --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups hugin and other free panoramic software group. A list of frequently asked questions is available at: http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ To post to this group, send email to hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to hugin-ptx-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hugin-ptx -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
