Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[Bruno Postle]

On Fri 10-Jun-2011 at 11:51 +0200, Carl von Einem wrote:


I just wish there was a way to duplicate a new crop circle from image 
no. 0 to the rest of the loaded images.


You can select multiple photos in the Crop tab and adjust the crop 
area for all of them at the same time.


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[hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[tom_a_spa...@yahoo.com.au]

On Jun 11, 2:59 am, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 10 Jun., 14:50, Jan Martin  wrote:
>
> > What is it good for to have 2 lenses if you have to turn the camera anyway?
>
> Seems pointless indeed.
single shot camera you would have to 4 photos

> And using two separate lenses, you have parallactic errors. It works
> if there's nothing nearby, but otherwise it gets messy. The example is
> indoors; parallax is definitely an issue.
>
> > What's clearly missing is 5 to 10 degrees more overlap.
>
> The images looked like the overlap might be just about enough, but the
> stitch wouldn't come out nice, and I think it might be because of the
> parallax between the two lenses.
that photo was a test photo that was done camera developer
>
> Are there fisheyes with more than 180 degrees fov?
yes
>
> Kay

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[Jan Martin]

For overview on fisheye lenses see:
http://panopticus.altervista.org/fishlist/fishlist.htm


On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 6:59 PM, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 10 Jun., 14:50, Jan Martin  wrote:
>
> > What is it good for to have 2 lenses if you have to turn the camera
> anyway?
>
> Seems pointless indeed.
> And using two separate lenses, you have parallactic errors. It works
> if there's nothing nearby, but otherwise it gets messy. The example is
> indoors; parallax is definitely an issue.
>
> > What's clearly missing is 5 to 10 degrees more overlap.
>
> The images looked like the overlap might be just about enough, but the
> stitch wouldn't come out nice, and I think it might be because of the
> parallax between the two lenses.
>
> Are there fisheyes with more than 180 degrees fov?
>
> Kay
>
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[hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[kfj]

On 10 Jun., 14:50, Jan Martin  wrote:

> What is it good for to have 2 lenses if you have to turn the camera anyway?

Seems pointless indeed.
And using two separate lenses, you have parallactic errors. It works
if there's nothing nearby, but otherwise it gets messy. The example is
indoors; parallax is definitely an issue.

> What's clearly missing is 5 to 10 degrees more overlap.

The images looked like the overlap might be just about enough, but the
stitch wouldn't come out nice, and I think it might be because of the
parallax between the two lenses.

Are there fisheyes with more than 180 degrees fov?

Kay

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[Carl von Einem]

tom_a_spa...@yahoo.com.au schrieb am 10.06.11 14:19:


On Jun 10, 6:55 pm, Carl von Einem  wrote:

BTW is it the same lens taking two
exposures one after the other (so a/b/c would be matching) or is it a
dual lens system (own params for a/b/c)?


the camera is a modern version of the spherecam (
http://www.sandydan.com/photo/wide/sphere/index.htm ),
the camera combines the fisheyes into stereoscopic image


Dan Slater's wonderful 2x 6mm Spherecam...
BTW "Dan Slater" is the main character in the 1967 movie The Double Man 
starring Yul Brynner  :-)


Carl

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[Jan Martin]

Well,

the main feature of the original Spherecam was to take the two images needed
at once?

What is it good for to have 2 lenses if you have to turn the camera anyway?
What's clearly missing is 5 to 10 degrees more overlap.

Jan

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 2:22 PM, tom_a_spa...@yahoo.com.au <
tom_a_spa...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

> On Jun 10, 6:37 pm, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On 10 Jun., 09:52, Tom Sparks  wrote:
> >
> > > Can hugin support two fisheyes in one image?
> >
> > > here is a sample imagehttp://
> www.lightningridgecommunity.com/panorama/elphelimg_2421643.jpeg
> >
> > I tried it and - yes, it can. But you're really pushing it. As your
> > images are just about over 180 degrees, there is virtually no overlap
> > and the automatic CPGs fail - I hardly found CPs manually. Also, the
> > edges of the images are already shaded by the lense's rim and the
> > seams will be visible. I recommend you do three shots at least.
>
> When I start taking photo I'll be rotating the camera 90 degrees
> between the next step of photos
>
> >
> > Btw - wasn't there a possibility somewhere to apply circular masks -
> > or a circular cropping - to circular fisheye shots?
> >
> > Kay
>
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[hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[tom_a_spa...@yahoo.com.au]

On Jun 10, 6:37 pm, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 10 Jun., 09:52, Tom Sparks  wrote:
>
> > Can hugin support two fisheyes in one image?
>
> > here is a sample 
> > imagehttp://www.lightningridgecommunity.com/panorama/elphelimg_2421643.jpeg
>
> I tried it and - yes, it can. But you're really pushing it. As your
> images are just about over 180 degrees, there is virtually no overlap
> and the automatic CPGs fail - I hardly found CPs manually. Also, the
> edges of the images are already shaded by the lense's rim and the
> seams will be visible. I recommend you do three shots at least.

When I start taking photo I'll be rotating the camera 90 degrees
between the next step of photos

>
> Btw - wasn't there a possibility somewhere to apply circular masks -
> or a circular cropping - to circular fisheye shots?
>
> Kay

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[hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[tom_a_spa...@yahoo.com.au]

On Jun 10, 6:55 pm, Carl von Einem  wrote:
> Hi Tom,
>
> Tom Sparks schrieb am 10.06.11 09:52:
>
> > Can hugin support two fisheyes in one image?
>
> > here is a sample image
> >http://www.lightningridgecommunity.com/panorama/elphelimg_2421643.jpeg
>
> yes, that should be possible. I duplicated the image and renamed both to
> "up" resp. "down". In Hugin's "camera & lens" tab I allowed each image
> to have its own a/b/c/d/e parameters. BTW is it the same lens taking two
> exposures one after the other (so a/b/c would be matching) or is it a
> dual lens system (own params for a/b/c)?

the camera is a modern version of the spherecam (
http://www.sandydan.com/photo/wide/sphere/index.htm ),
the camera combines the fisheyes into stereoscopic image

tom

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[Carl von Einem]

kfj schrieb am 10.06.11 13:12:



On 10 Jun., 12:32, Carl von Einem  wrote:

kfj schrieb am 10.06.11 12:08:



You select only the first image with that lens number and load the
lens.ini for that, then, if the images of that lens are linked, they
will all get those lens parameters. Just make sure all these images
have the same lens number.


They sure have all lens no. 0 as a default (in the c&l tab). I don't get
it, this doesn't work for me somehow. The other images have the same
lens parameters, true, but they still miss the crop values of my first
image.

I know it works if I load one image alone first, apply a lens.ini on
that and after that load the missing images. They will now have the same
crop params that my first image has from the lens ini.

Maybe you missed my point what I try to achieve: a lens ini also saves
the crop values which I want to apply on more than one image at a time.


I did miss your point - didn't know of this obscure feature, either,
but the crop is there in my lens.ini and won't load automatically
here, either.


And I always had the faint memory that it used to work earlier... I just 
tried Hugin 0.7.0 
() and 
it did it correctly: load a bunch of images, apply a lens ini that 
contains [Lens/crop] values on one image, this gets inherited on all 
other images.


Hugin 0.8.0 does it correctly, too
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/files/hugin/hugin-0.8.0/

Hugin 2009.2 is also ok
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/files/hugin/hugin-2009.2/

Hugin 2009.4.0 is ok, too
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/files/hugin/hugin-2009.4/

Hugin 2010.0.0 works
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/files/hugin/hugin-2010.0/

Hugin 2010.2.0: here it breaks!
http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/files/hugin/hugin-2010.2/

I think I'll file a bug report...

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[hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[kfj]

On 10 Jun., 12:32, Carl von Einem  wrote:
> kfj schrieb am 10.06.11 12:08:

> > You select only the first image with that lens number and load the
> > lens.ini for that, then, if the images of that lens are linked, they
> > will all get those lens parameters. Just make sure all these images
> > have the same lens number.
>
> They sure have all lens no. 0 as a default (in the c&l tab). I don't get
> it, this doesn't work for me somehow. The other images have the same
> lens parameters, true, but they still miss the crop values of my first
> image.
>
> I know it works if I load one image alone first, apply a lens.ini on
> that and after that load the missing images. They will now have the same
> crop params that my first image has from the lens ini.
>
> Maybe you missed my point what I try to achieve: a lens ini also saves
> the crop values which I want to apply on more than one image at a time.

I did miss your point - didn't know of this obscure feature, either,
but the crop is there in my lens.ini and won't load automatically
here, either.

Kay

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[Carl von Einem]

kfj schrieb am 10.06.11 12:08:

On 10 Jun., 11:27, Jan Martin  wrote:

On 10 Jun., 11:51, Carl von Einem  wrote:


You will get a circle instead of a rectangle in the crop tab when you
set the lens type in the "Assistant" tab (or in the dialog that pops up
when you load images) to "circular fisheye". Now in the "Crop" tab
activate one image and as soon as you drag the crop frame from one image
border a little bit to the image center you should see that circle.

Does that work for you?


Does indeed. I'd say it's a bit of an obscure feature ;-)


Indeed :-)


I just wish there was a way to duplicate a new crop circle from image
no. 0 to the rest of the loaded images. IMHO one solution would be to
save those lens parameters with my new crop circle in the "camera&
lens" tab, then select all other images and load the params. Only the
"load lens" button is greyed as soon as I select more than one image.


You select only the first image with that lens number and load the
lens.ini for that, then, if the images of that lens are linked, they
will all get those lens parameters. Just make sure all these images
have the same lens number.


They sure have all lens no. 0 as a default (in the c&l tab). I don't get 
it, this doesn't work for me somehow. The other images have the same 
lens parameters, true, but they still miss the crop values of my first 
image.


I know it works if I load one image alone first, apply a lens.ini on 
that and after that load the missing images. They will now have the same 
crop params that my first image has from the lens ini.


Maybe you missed my point what I try to achieve: a lens ini also saves 
the crop values which I want to apply on more than one image at a time.


A different approach would be to click on my image in the "crop" tab 
that has the correct crop values. Strg-C to copy these values, select 
one or more other images in the "crop" tab and paste the values (Str-V) 
to the other images.


Carl

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[hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[kfj]

On 10 Jun., 11:27, Jan Martin  wrote:

> On the "Crop" tab.
> You need to untick "Always center Crop on d,e" first.

Thanks! I didn't know that trick, or if I ever did I forgot.

On 10 Jun., 11:51, Carl von Einem  wrote:

> You will get a circle instead of a rectangle in the crop tab when you
> set the lens type in the "Assistant" tab (or in the dialog that pops up
> when you load images) to "circular fisheye". Now in the "Crop" tab
> activate one image and as soon as you drag the crop frame from one image
> border a little bit to the image center you should see that circle.
>
> Does that work for you?

Does indeed. I'd say it's a bit of an obscure feature ;-)

> I just wish there was a way to duplicate a new crop circle from image
> no. 0 to the rest of the loaded images. IMHO one solution would be to
> save those lens parameters with my new crop circle in the "camera &
> lens" tab, then select all other images and load the params. Only the
> "load lens" button is greyed as soon as I select more than one image.

You select only the first image with that lens number and load the
lens.ini for that, then, if the images of that lens are linked, they
will all get those lens parameters. Just make sure all these images
have the same lens number.

Kay

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[Carl von Einem]

kfj schrieb am 10.06.11 11:22:


On 10 Jun., 10:55, Carl von Einem  wrote:


I selected 'circular fisheye' and preset it to 200 deg. for a start. In
the 'crop' tab I set a crop circle for the upper image circle


I don't seem to have that 'crop circle' option. Where is it?


You will get a circle instead of a rectangle in the crop tab when you 
set the lens type in the "Assistant" tab (or in the dialog that pops up 
when you load images) to "circular fisheye". Now in the "Crop" tab 
activate one image and as soon as you drag the crop frame from one image 
border a little bit to the image center you should see that circle.


Does that work for you?

Jan is right about the need to deselect the "center d and e" option in 
the "crop" tab which enables dragging the image circle's center to a 
different place on the canvas. When selected a click+drag inside the 
crop circle will scale it.


I just wish there was a way to duplicate a new crop circle from image 
no. 0 to the rest of the loaded images. IMHO one solution would be to 
save those lens parameters with my new crop circle in the "camera & 
lens" tab, then select all other images and load the params. Only the 
"load lens" button is greyed as soon as I select more than one image. 
Why is that so?


Carl

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[Jan Martin]

On the "Crop" tab.
You need to untick "Always center Crop on d,e" first.


On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 11:22 AM, kfj <_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 10 Jun., 10:55, Carl von Einem  wrote:
>
> > I selected 'circular fisheye' and preset it to 200 deg. for a start. In
> > the 'crop' tab I set a crop circle for the upper image circle
>
> I don't seem to have that 'crop circle' option. Where is it?
>
> Kay
>
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[hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[kfj]

On 10 Jun., 10:55, Carl von Einem  wrote:

> I selected 'circular fisheye' and preset it to 200 deg. for a start. In
> the 'crop' tab I set a crop circle for the upper image circle

I don't seem to have that 'crop circle' option. Where is it?

Kay

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[hugin-ptx] Re: two fisheye in one image

[kfj]

On 10 Jun., 09:52, Tom Sparks  wrote:
> Can hugin support two fisheyes in one image?
>
> here is a sample image 
> http://www.lightningridgecommunity.com/panorama/elphelimg_2421643.jpeg
>

I tried it and - yes, it can. But you're really pushing it. As your
images are just about over 180 degrees, there is virtually no overlap
and the automatic CPGs fail - I hardly found CPs manually. Also, the
edges of the images are already shaded by the lense's rim and the
seams will be visible. I recommend you do three shots at least. But
technically, it's no problem. Set your lens to circular fisheye and
the hfov to 190 (if you take square sections slightly larger than the
exposed parts), apply masks, set CPs and optimize position, hfov and
b.

Btw - wasn't there a possibility somewhere to apply circular masks -
or a circular cropping - to circular fisheye shots?

Kay

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