Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)]

Tks Thomas,

I'll try to change distance and do some tests.


Carlos E G Carvalho (Cartola)
http://cartola.org/360
http://www.panoforum.com.br/


2014-02-27 14:14 GMT-03:00 T. Modes :

> Hi,
>
> Am Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2014 18:32:15 UTC+1 schrieb Cartola:
>
>> Well, I don't know if the problem is me, but I don't remember of making a
>> good auto set of CPs ever. I've always wanted to be able to make it find
>> more spread ones.
>>
>> Some samples of mine are available at the links below. They are not the
>> ones used at this last time, which are for a job and I guess I can't share.
>> They are very similar: fish eye lens with many geometric lines at the scene.
>>
>>
> Mainly the RANSAC steps has problems with these sets. It rejects too much
> control points.
> But increasing the RANSAC distance helps for these examples: cpfind
> --ransacdist=100 and it find cp in all images (inclusive nadir) and the cps
> show a nice distribution (in my opinion).
> Maybe these is some small bug in the RANSAC code. I have not look into it
> yet. When I find time I will have a look, but I can not promise anything.
>
> Thomas
>
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[T. Modes]

Hi,

Am Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2014 18:32:15 UTC+1 schrieb Cartola:
>
> Well, I don't know if the problem is me, but I don't remember of making a 
> good auto set of CPs ever. I've always wanted to be able to make it find 
> more spread ones.
>
> Some samples of mine are available at the links below. They are not the 
> ones used at this last time, which are for a job and I guess I can't share. 
> They are very similar: fish eye lens with many geometric lines at the scene.
>
>
Mainly the RANSAC steps has problems with these sets. It rejects too much 
control points. 
But increasing the RANSAC distance helps for these examples: cpfind 
--ransacdist=100 and it find cp in all images (inclusive nadir) and the cps 
show a nice distribution (in my opinion).
Maybe these is some small bug in the RANSAC code. I have not look into it 
yet. When I find time I will have a look, but I can not promise anything.

Thomas

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)]

Well, I don't know if the problem is me, but I don't remember of making a
good auto set of CPs ever. I've always wanted to be able to make it find
more spread ones.

Some samples of mine are available at the links below. They are not the
ones used at this last time, which are for a job and I guess I can't share.
They are very similar: fish eye lens with many geometric lines at the scene.

http://cartola.org/arquivos/Samples_T2i_Opteka6.5.zip

http://cartola.org/panoramas/SamplesFor360-5DmkIII_15mm_9x3.zip



Carlos E G Carvalho (Cartola)
http://cartola.org/360
http://www.panoforum.com.br/


2014-02-26 13:20 GMT-03:00 T. Modes :

> Hi,
>
> Am Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2014 02:46:49 UTC+1 schrieb Cartola:
>
>>
>> I really liked the result. It is a shell script (sh) and surely has many
>> more things to be improved. I can share it but it is maybe a little
>> specific for a tokina 10-17 at 13mm,
>>
>
> Maybe sharing the images could help. There could be a bug inside cpfind.
> But without a testcase this can not rule out.
>
> Thomas
>
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[T. Modes]

Hi,

Am Mittwoch, 26. Februar 2014 02:46:49 UTC+1 schrieb Cartola:
>
>
> I really liked the result. It is a shell script (sh) and surely has many 
> more things to be improved. I can share it but it is maybe a little 
> specific for a tokina 10-17 at 13mm, 
>

Maybe sharing the images could help. There could be a bug inside cpfind. 
But without a testcase this can not rule out.

Thomas 

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)]

Hi all,

just to give some feedback:

the script is working quite well IMHO. It tries to find CPs in specific
parts of the image and almost always (or something like 9/10 times) works
standalone. When it really fails it gives me the file to add a specific CP
between a specific image pair, so I do that and save so it can continue.

I really liked the result. It is a shell script (sh) and surely has many
more things to be improved. I can share it but it is maybe a little
specific for a tokina 10-17 at 13mm, as I've used templates well stitched
to create the PTO file used to find CPs, so much probably everyone would
need to adapt it. It solved my main requirement, to find CPs in the bottom
of the fish eye image so the nadir gets well stitched. I've already thought
about doing the same to te upper part, but didn't do it yet as only in a
few situations it has been necessary and I did by hand.

>From this and from my previous experience I could suggest that cpfind could
have a way to find CPs in specific parts of the image, maybe using masks.
PTGui has this possibility of choosing a small part of two images and it
tries to find CPs only on it.

Tks for everyone!



Carlos E G Carvalho (Cartola)
http://cartola.org/360
http://www.panoforum.com.br/


2014-02-20 13:57 GMT-03:00 T. Modes :

> Why is nobody reading the help?
>
> > 2) What is the option --link?
>>
>> I haven't used this, but think it is used to create stacks.
>>
>
> It links image variables, like hfov, image distortion a, b, c,.. - as one
> the Photos tab (or the old lens tab).
> See http://wiki.panotools.org/Pto_var
> For creating stacks there is pto_lensstack
> http://wiki.panotools.org/Pto_lensstack
>
>
>
> I am specifying a FOV of 95 as this was the value after a good manual
>> stitching and I've put f3 as a fisheye lens. Don't know how to specify it
>> on pto_gen
>>
>
> Switch --projection? http://wiki.panotools.org/Pto_gen
>
>
>> 3) I am also trying to find a way to spread the control points. Usually
>> cpfind is not finding points in the bottom of the images. They are wide
>> fish-eye lens, don't know if this is the reason, but I've always had this
>> result in the GUI too. Usually I use manual CPs. Is it possible to split
>> the image (thought about imagemagick) to use cpfind on them and then remap
>> the CPs in a script?
>>
>> The splitting can be problematic. When supplying cropped images the
> remapping to stereographic goes wrong, if the wrong/not correctly chosen
> lens parameters are given. This happens in your example: the first pto file
> supplies a hfov of 77 deg (or a focal length of 31 mm; and this for a 10-17
> mm lens) and does not account for the cropping with d/e parameters. So
> cpfind is not able for correctly remap the images to stereographic and
> therefore the cp finding goes wrong. This is clearly a case of garbage in -
> garbage out.
> When using better lens parameters (like in your second pto file, correct
> hfov and take cropping into account), cpfind is able to detect 5 cp (ok, if
> finds 8 cp, 3 cp are disregarded by the RANSAC step, so 5 remains)
>
> So the log output for default parameters:
> --- Find matches ---
> i0 <> i1 : Find Matches...
> i0 <> i1 : Found 8 matches.
> i0 <> i1 : RANSAC Filtering with Panorama model...
> i0 <> i1 : Removed 3 matches. 5 remaining.
> i0 <> i1 : Too few matches ... removing all of them.
> i0 <> i1 : Clustering matches...
>
> If you want to keep these five cp, add --minmatches=3 to the command line
> and cpfind will add 5 cp to your project.
>
> Thomas
>
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[T. Modes]

Why is nobody reading the help?

> 2) What is the option --link? 
>
> I haven't used this, but think it is used to create stacks. 
>
 
It links image variables, like hfov, image distortion a, b, c,.. - as one 
the Photos tab (or the old lens tab).
See http://wiki.panotools.org/Pto_var
For creating stacks there is pto_lensstack
http://wiki.panotools.org/Pto_lensstack


I am specifying a FOV of 95 as this was the value after a good manual 
> stitching and I've put f3 as a fisheye lens. Don't know how to specify it 
> on pto_gen
>

Switch --projection? http://wiki.panotools.org/Pto_gen


> 3) I am also trying to find a way to spread the control points. Usually 
> cpfind is not finding points in the bottom of the images. They are wide 
> fish-eye lens, don't know if this is the reason, but I've always had this 
> result in the GUI too. Usually I use manual CPs. Is it possible to split 
> the image (thought about imagemagick) to use cpfind on them and then remap 
> the CPs in a script?
>
> The splitting can be problematic. When supplying cropped images the 
remapping to stereographic goes wrong, if the wrong/not correctly chosen 
lens parameters are given. This happens in your example: the first pto file 
supplies a hfov of 77 deg (or a focal length of 31 mm; and this for a 10-17 
mm lens) and does not account for the cropping with d/e parameters. So 
cpfind is not able for correctly remap the images to stereographic and 
therefore the cp finding goes wrong. This is clearly a case of garbage in - 
garbage out.
When using better lens parameters (like in your second pto file, correct 
hfov and take cropping into account), cpfind is able to detect 5 cp (ok, if 
finds 8 cp, 3 cp are disregarded by the RANSAC step, so 5 remains)

So the log output for default parameters:
--- Find matches ---
i0 <> i1 : Find Matches...
i0 <> i1 : Found 8 matches.
i0 <> i1 : RANSAC Filtering with Panorama model...
i0 <> i1 : Removed 3 matches. 5 remaining.
i0 <> i1 : Too few matches ... removing all of them.
i0 <> i1 : Clustering matches...

If you want to keep these five cp, add --minmatches=3 to the command line 
and cpfind will add 5 cp to your project.

Thomas

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Bruno Postle]

On Feb 20, 2014 12:46 AM, Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho wrote:
>
> I was thinking about trying autopano-sift-c, but would have to install it
and it's requisites, like mono, so I didn't do it yet.

autopano-sift-c doesn't depend on mono, in fact it is very straightforward
to build. The original autopano-sift was a mono application, but that was a
long time ago.

Though at this point cpfind is probably better all round, I wouldn't bother
with autopano-sift-c.

-- 
Bruno

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Terry Duell]

On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:14:12 +1100, Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)  
 wrote:




Also will maybe try with other set of images produced with a very well
calibrated equipment to see if the problem of detecting at the bottom  
will also happen.




Just came across this thread, which may help a little...if you haven't  
already seen it.



Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Terry Duell]

On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:36:08 +1100, Terry Duell   
wrote:



It might be useful to try a couple of test sets, one set with a  
similarly spare set of features near the edges, and one set which has a


Sorry, I meant to trypewirt 'sparse' not 'spare' :-)

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--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Terry Duell]

Hello Carlos,

On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 13:14:12 +1100, Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)  
 wrote:


[snip]



Maybe there can be some parallax, but I really believe it is very small,
based on what I've seen in another set of images with the same equipment,
where I specifically tried to evaluate it, and also in the fact that I am
being able to stitch it very well when doing the manual process - just  
need those manual CPs in the bottom of the images.


Follows another PTO of the same 2 images sent before, optimized with  
manual CPs, where the result is quite good IMHO.


Yes, that all works out very well, Much better than I managed here.
On this result I would agree that parallax isn't the issue.



Attached is also a crop of two images from a similar set (made with same
cam+lens+head+tripod) where I tried to evaluate the parallax. it makes
sense, but I think there is very few.

Also will maybe try with other set of images produced with a very well
calibrated equipment to see if the problem of detecting at the bottom  
will also happen.




OK.
It might be useful to try a couple of test sets, one set with a similarly  
spare set of features near the edges, and one set which has a good set of  
features in those regions


Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Terry Duell]

Hello Carlos,

On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 10:38:38 +1100, Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)  
 wrote:


[snip]



Yes, I've read the man and played a lot with many options, those  
mentioned

as more effective with fish eye lens, like sieve1size, sieve1width,
sieve1height, ransacmode and many others not mentioned as good for it.
Never found a single CP. It is quite easy to create manual ones and   
stitch
the pictures, but I just can't make it through a script. I've sent a   
sample

image pair and pto file in another email after this you've answered.



I had a bit more of a play with your sample image pair, and it looks to me  
as though there is quite a bit of parallax error.
I tried manually setting control points, and there wasn't one that was  
automatically found. I had to manually set the point in each image, and  
the alignment was pretty crook.

I suspect that this may be part of your problem.

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)]

2014-02-19 20:51 GMT-03:00 Terry Duell :

> I have seen your later post, and I'm pondering on it.
> I don't expect I'll see any more success that you have had, but it is a
> worthy challenge.
> In my few experiments thus far I have had Autopano-Sift-C find about 10
> points, but some were completely wrong...not that any of that really helps
> answer your question
> .
> What lens type have you been specifying?
>

I am specifying a FOV of 95 as this was the value after a good manual
stitching and I've put f3 as a fisheye lens. Don't know how to specify it
on pto_gen, so I've put it "by hand" with "sed" in the shell script.

I was thinking about trying autopano-sift-c, but would have to install it
and it's requisites, like mono, so I didn't do it yet.

Thank you,


Carlos E G Carvalho (Cartola)
http://cartola.org/360
http://www.panoforum.com.br/

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Terry Duell]

Hello Carlos,

On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 10:38:38 +1100, Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)  
 wrote:


[snip]





3) I am also trying to find a way to spread the control points. Usually
cpfind is not finding points in the bottom of the images. They are wide
fish-eye lens, don't know if this is the reason, but I've always had  
this
result in the GUI too. Usually I use manual CPs. Is it possible to  
split

the image (thought about imagemagick) to use cpfind on them and then
remap the CPs in a script?



'man cpfind' talks about how it handles fisheye, any clues there?
Have you played with CPFind options?


Yes, I've read the man and played a lot with many options, those  
mentioned

as more effective with fish eye lens, like sieve1size, sieve1width,
sieve1height, ransacmode and many others not mentioned as good for it.
Never found a single CP. It is quite easy to create manual ones and  
stitch
the pictures, but I just can't make it through a script. I've sent a  
sample

image pair and pto file in another email after this you've answered.



I have seen your later post, and I'm pondering on it.
I don't expect I'll see any more success that you have had, but it is a  
worthy challenge.
In my few experiments thus far I have had Autopano-Sift-C find about 10  
points, but some were completely wrong...not that any of that really helps  
answer your question

.
What lens type have you been specifying?

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)]

2014-02-19 19:53 GMT-03:00 Terry Duell :

> Hello Carlos,
>
>
> On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 22:12:53 +1100, Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola) <
> cartol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Thanks a lot Terry. I still have some questions.
>>
>> 1) Why use "!v0"? I mean, usually I use only one lens and optimize v and
>> !v0 sounds strange. Is it for more than one lens?
>>
>
> I grabbed bits of that script from a project that used different lenses.
>
>
Ah, ok.


>
>
>> 2) What is the option --link?
>>
>
> I haven't used this, but think it is used to create stacks.


Hmm, makes sense. Tks.


>
>
>
>> 3) I am also trying to find a way to spread the control points. Usually
>> cpfind is not finding points in the bottom of the images. They are wide
>> fish-eye lens, don't know if this is the reason, but I've always had this
>> result in the GUI too. Usually I use manual CPs. Is it possible to split
>> the image (thought about imagemagick) to use cpfind on them and then
>> remap the CPs in a script?
>>
>
> 'man cpfind' talks about how it handles fisheye, any clues there?
> Have you played with CPFind options?
>
>
Yes, I've read the man and played a lot with many options, those mentioned
as more effective with fish eye lens, like sieve1size, sieve1width,
sieve1height, ransacmode and many others not mentioned as good for it.
Never found a single CP. It is quite easy to create manual ones and stitch
the pictures, but I just can't make it through a script. I've sent a sample
image pair and pto file in another email after this you've answered.

Thank you again.


> Cheers,
> --
> Regards,
> Terry Duell
>
> --
> A list of frequently asked questions is available at:
> http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Terry Duell]

Hello Carlos,

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 22:12:53 +1100, Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)  
 wrote:



Thanks a lot Terry. I still have some questions.

1) Why use "!v0"? I mean, usually I use only one lens and optimize v and
!v0 sounds strange. Is it for more than one lens?


I grabbed bits of that script from a project that used different lenses.



2) What is the option --link?


I haven't used this, but think it is used to create stacks.



3) I am also trying to find a way to spread the control points. Usually
cpfind is not finding points in the bottom of the images. They are wide
fish-eye lens, don't know if this is the reason, but I've always had this
result in the GUI too. Usually I use manual CPs. Is it possible to split
the image (thought about imagemagick) to use cpfind on them and then  
remap the CPs in a script?


'man cpfind' talks about how it handles fisheye, any clues there?
Have you played with CPFind options?

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)]

Thanks a lot Terry. I still have some questions.

1) Why use "!v0"? I mean, usually I use only one lens and optimize v and
!v0 sounds strange. Is it for more than one lens?

2) What is the option --link?

3) I am also trying to find a way to spread the control points. Usually
cpfind is not finding points in the bottom of the images. They are wide
fish-eye lens, don't know if this is the reason, but I've always had this
result in the GUI too. Usually I use manual CPs. Is it possible to split
the image (thought about imagemagick) to use cpfind on them and then remap
the CPs in a script?

Thank you!

Carlos E G Carvalho (Cartola)
http://cartola.org/360
http://www.panoforum.com.br/


2014-02-19 0:10 GMT-03:00 Terry Duell :

> Hello Carlos,
>
>
> On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:27:21 +1100, Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola) <
> cartol...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Hi,
>>
>> I am trying to make an optimization script to do as I do in the GUI. When
>> I
>> use Hugin in general I optimize little by little, like:
>>
>> (y, p, r)
>> (y, p, r, v)
>> (y, p, r, v, b)
>> Everything without translation
>>
>> I tried to find how to script this and found autooptimizer, but it doesn't
>> have options for it. Does Hugin uses PToptimizer instead? I've tested here
>> and there is a lot of errors when I use it on a pto file.
>>
>>
> Is it possible to run something the following?
>
> pto_gen --projection=x -o project.pto *.jpg
> cpfind -o project1.pto project.pto
> cpclean -o project2.pto project1.pto
> pto_var --opt y,p,r -o project3.pto project2.pto
> autooptimiser -n -o autooptim.pto project3.pto
> pto_var --opt y,p,r,v ,!v0 -o autooptim2.pto autooptim.pto
> autooptimisr -n -o autooptim3.pto autooptim2.pto
> .
> and so on until you have run the optimisation steps you want
> .
> pto2mk -o project.mk -p prefix autooptimx.pto
> make -f project.mk all
>
> Not tested, so not sure if this is on the right track.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Regards,
> Terry Duell
>
> --
> A list of frequently asked questions is available at:
> http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ
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>

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Command line to optimize like GUI

[Terry Duell]

Hello Carlos,

On Wed, 19 Feb 2014 13:27:21 +1100, Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)  
 wrote:



Hi,

I am trying to make an optimization script to do as I do in the GUI.  
When I

use Hugin in general I optimize little by little, like:

(y, p, r)
(y, p, r, v)
(y, p, r, v, b)
Everything without translation

I tried to find how to script this and found autooptimizer, but it  
doesn't
have options for it. Does Hugin uses PToptimizer instead? I've tested  
here

and there is a lot of errors when I use it on a pto file.



Is it possible to run something the following?

pto_gen --projection=x -o project.pto *.jpg
cpfind -o project1.pto project.pto
cpclean -o project2.pto project1.pto
pto_var --opt y,p,r -o project3.pto project2.pto
autooptimiser -n -o autooptim.pto project3.pto
pto_var --opt y,p,r,v ,!v0 -o autooptim2.pto autooptim.pto
autooptimisr -n -o autooptim3.pto autooptim2.pto
.
and so on until you have run the optimisation steps you want
.
pto2mk -o project.mk -p prefix autooptimx.pto
make -f project.mk all

Not tested, so not sure if this is on the right track.

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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