Re: [IAEP] International Society for Technology in Education 2016 Conference and Expo?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

You mean the https://kidswrite.org blog? :)

On 13 June 2016 at 21:47, Sora Edwards-Thro  wrote:
> I'll be printing a poster, which I can put on my blog linked to
> planet.laptop.org if I figure out how to format it so it displays properly
> on a screen. I plan to write up my results in a formal paper once we get the
> data from the pilot concluding in June.
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>> Hi Sora
>>
>> I'm curious about your presentation that is coming up in a couple of
>> weeks - will your slides be available online? :)
>>
>> On 31 March 2016 at 12:31, Sora Edwards-Thro  wrote:
>> > I'll be there presenting research on a literacy project with XOs in
>> > Haiti.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:32 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hi
>> >>
>> >> Is anyone involved in Sugar Labs going to
>> >> https://conference.iste.org/2016/ ?
>> >>
>> >> Has anyone gone from SL attended previous years?
>> >>
>> >> ISTE 2016 says it is "the premier education technology conference," and
>> >> will be held June 26-29 in Denver, Colorado, USA.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Cheers
>> >> Dave
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>
>
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep



-- 
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Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 13 June 2016 at 22:06, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:
>
> I do not believe we would get significant new traction by trying to sell
> XO-1s.

Please enumerate why you think this.

Would XO-4s be any better?

> If we truly are going to force end of support in 2020, we should be
> having the developers focus on the next system and not going crazy trying to
> keep backwards support with the first.

What do you think 'the' next system should be?

Whatever it is, it has zero users and zero brand equity, so I think it
will be less successful at driving traction with new contributors.

All developers have old generic laptops lying around. Why would they
buy something generic, when they can just use what they already have
that's otherwise gathering dust?

None of them are GREEN and work in SUNLIGHT and are RUGGED and FLIP
and are LOW POWER.

The green case is probably the most important thing, I think, because
of that brand equity.

> As long as everything is routed through 501(c)3s and we do not go too crazy,
> the recycler might be willing to split the pallet.

The photos show the palette is wrapped and ready to ship out, so I
don't think so, but worth asking - eg we could splitt them between
NYC, SF, Fla and Boston areas, plus a couple of those known good
homes.

> If a few developers need them for testing, we could then siphon them
> as-needed.

Adam, how many XOs (any model) do you/unleashkids have available to
sell to developers?

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Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Samuel Greenfeld]

Having thought about this a bit more since this morning, I believe the best
course of action would be to ask the recycler to directly donate the XO-1s
to one or more projects which already accept them on a donation basis.
These include the Columbus School for Girls (http://csgolpc.weebly.com/ ),
Unleash Kids (www.unleashkids.org), etc.

I do not have a full list of all projects that are still active.

I do not believe we would get significant new traction by trying to sell
XO-1s.  If we truly are going to force end of support in 2020, we should be
having the developers focus on the next system and not going crazy trying
to keep backwards support with the first.

As long as everything is routed through 501(c)3s and we do not go too
crazy, the recycler might be willing to split the pallet.

If a few developers need them for testing, we could then siphon them
as-needed.




On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:03 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> On 13 June 2016 at 17:16, Sean DALY  wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:09 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> >>
> >> what do you see as the difference in terms of sugar feedback?
> >
> > Students not using their native language, teachers at far lower level,
> > daunting infrastructure difficulties which mean limited laptop time, very
> > limited connectivity... believe me, the contexts will have as many
> > differences as similarities
>
> Sure, I understand the socioeconomic contexts are different.
>
> How does this difference relate to getting feedback on what to work on?
> ___
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> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
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Re: [IAEP] International Society for Technology in Education 2016 Conference and Expo?

[Sora Edwards-Thro]

I'll be printing a poster, which I can put on my blog linked to
planet.laptop.org if I figure out how to format it so it displays properly
on a screen. I plan to write up my results in a formal paper once we get
the data from the pilot concluding in June.

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:39 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Hi Sora
>
> I'm curious about your presentation that is coming up in a couple of
> weeks - will your slides be available online? :)
>
> On 31 March 2016 at 12:31, Sora Edwards-Thro  wrote:
> > I'll be there presenting research on a literacy project with XOs in
> Haiti.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:32 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> Is anyone involved in Sugar Labs going to
> >> https://conference.iste.org/2016/ ?
> >>
> >> Has anyone gone from SL attended previous years?
> >>
> >> ISTE 2016 says it is "the premier education technology conference," and
> >> will be held June 26-29 in Denver, Colorado, USA.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Cheers
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> ___
> >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers
> Dave
>
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Re: [IAEP] International Society for Technology in Education 2016 Conference and Expo?

[Dave Crossland]

Hi Sora

I'm curious about your presentation that is coming up in a couple of
weeks - will your slides be available online? :)

On 31 March 2016 at 12:31, Sora Edwards-Thro  wrote:
> I'll be there presenting research on a literacy project with XOs in Haiti.
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 12:32 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> Is anyone involved in Sugar Labs going to
>> https://conference.iste.org/2016/ ?
>>
>> Has anyone gone from SL attended previous years?
>>
>> ISTE 2016 says it is "the premier education technology conference," and
>> will be held June 26-29 in Denver, Colorado, USA.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>>
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>



-- 
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 13 June 2016 at 17:16, Sean DALY  wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:09 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>> what do you see as the difference in terms of sugar feedback?
>
> Students not using their native language, teachers at far lower level,
> daunting infrastructure difficulties which mean limited laptop time, very
> limited connectivity... believe me, the contexts will have as many
> differences as similarities

Sure, I understand the socioeconomic contexts are different.

How does this difference relate to getting feedback on what to work on?
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:09 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> what do you see as the difference in terms of sugar feedback?



Students not using their native language, teachers at far lower level,
daunting infrastructure difficulties which mean limited laptop time, very
limited connectivity... believe me, the contexts will have as many
differences as similarities

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 13 June 2016 at 13:52, Samuel Greenfeld  wrote:
> I think if you tell the sponsor you want a stash to sell them, they'll be
> more than happy to keep them to sell for themselves.

I doubt it - due to the labour costs you describe below :)

> What Walter and I are getting at is that is servicing & reshipping 172 XOs
> (even if they come with 254 chargers + extra batteries) takes a lot more
> work than you may realize.

Are we supporting the XO-1 or not? :)

> While $4k might be trivial for a developer in the US to pay,

I'm sorry if I was unclear; I meant that $200 (or even $500) is pocket
money for most developers, easily fitting into their discretionary
budget for a single month.

> moving ~550 pounds/~250 kg dropped outside on a pallet into your
> apartment is not.  You will need room to store/charge/diagnose/etc.
> them - and not stacked while closed (they may overheat and melt).

Aren't they ruggedised?

> Reconditioning them could take another $4k man-hours worth of work.

The sales volume will be small so the labour time will be massively
spread out; and Sugar Labs won't pay that labour cost in USD.

> If you ship more than one or a few at a time (depending on
> origin/destination), the Lithium batteries in the laptops make them a
> hazardous shipment.  Having that many lithium batteries in one location
> might violate fire code on its own.

Its a tiny palette; storage in a shed or rented storage unit won't be
expensive for that storage volume even here in Manhattan.

> The sheer number of XO-1s put on sale at once could lower the viable sales
> price.

We could be so lucky! :)

> And in the event that some have torn keyboards/bad batteries/etc., you're
> just going to end up recycling those parts again.  It will be clear from the
> quantity that this isn't personal use, so you may have to pay for that.

I don't understand what you mean, here.

> Anyways, if done, doing this would be best handled by one of the local
> groups (OLPC-SF, etc.) where they get the room to store the laptops across
> several locations as well as several hands involved with them.

AFAICT only OLPC SF, OLPC France, and OLPC Canada are active in 2016.
Only SF is in the US.

Aaron, what do you think the OLPC SF appetite for this project is?
Would anyone in OLPC SF have access to storage and hands to process or
distribute them?

> I anticipate it would require a lot of labor & time to do this properly, and 
> anyone who
> remembers the first Give-One Get-One event would know how OLPC completely
> screwed up in this area.

That was 100,00s of laptops! This is barely 150.
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Samuel Greenfeld]

I think if you tell the sponsor you want a stash to sell them, they'll be
more than happy to keep them to sell for themselves.

What Walter and I are getting at is that is servicing & reshipping 172 XOs
(even if they come with 254 chargers + extra batteries) takes a lot more
work than you may realize.

While $4k might be trivial for a developer in the US to pay, moving ~550
pounds/~250 kg dropped outside on a pallet into your apartment is not.  You
will need room to store/charge/diagnose/etc. them - and not stacked while
closed (they may overheat and melt).

Reconditioning them could take another $4k man-hours worth of work.

If you ship more than one or a few at a time (depending on
origin/destination), the Lithium batteries in the laptops make them a
hazardous shipment.  Having that many lithium batteries in one location
might violate fire code on its own.

The sheer number of XO-1s put on sale at once could lower the viable sales
price.

And in the event that some have torn keyboards/bad batteries/etc., you're
just going to end up recycling those parts again.  It will be clear from
the quantity that this isn't personal use, so you may have to pay for that.


Anyways, if done, doing this would be best handled by one of the local
groups (OLPC-SF, etc.) where they get the room to store the laptops across
several locations as well as several hands involved with them.  I
anticipate it would require a lot of labor & time to do this properly, and
anyone who remembers the first Give-One Get-One event would know how OLPC
completely screwed up in this area.


On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> On 13 June 2016 at 04:19, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
> > $100 seems steep for an XO1.
>
> We could also offer a 100% buy-back scheme to get them back if they
> aren't used regularly, and various discounts up to 100% for developers
> who want to pay $0 but are actively contributing.
>
> > In the USA, apparently less than $100 yeilds
> > you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just searched
> it
> > on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and see if we
> need to
> > go lower?
>
> And that's the retail price! :)
>
> I'm very sure you could get those units for less if we bought 150 from
> an OEM distributor, and like Sam G and Walter said, if we send enough
> well written donation requests we'd probably get a stash for $0 down.
>
> While, I think the XOs have immediate visceral excitement power, and
> it will help us support XO-1s, perhaps we should abandon XO-1 support
> and shift more modern but generic devices.
>
> Also, FedEx can sponsor shipments.
> ___
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>
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 13 June 2016 at 04:19, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
> $100 seems steep for an XO1.

We could also offer a 100% buy-back scheme to get them back if they
aren't used regularly, and various discounts up to 100% for developers
who want to pay $0 but are actively contributing.

> In the USA, apparently less than $100 yeilds
> you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just searched it
> on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and see if we need to
> go lower?

And that's the retail price! :)

I'm very sure you could get those units for less if we bought 150 from
an OEM distributor, and like Sam G and Walter said, if we send enough
well written donation requests we'd probably get a stash for $0 down.

While, I think the XOs have immediate visceral excitement power, and
it will help us support XO-1s, perhaps we should abandon XO-1 support
and shift more modern but generic devices.

Also, FedEx can sponsor shipments.
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 13 June 2016 at 11:54, Sean DALY  wrote:
> What duplication? An island fishing community with a single one-room
> school is quite a different place from an American classroom

I think there's probably more education going on in the former, but
what do you see as the difference in terms of sugar feedback?

> OK, if I understand you correctly, your idea is to recruit Sugar developers
> by selling them XO-1s individually?

Partly yes, and also to raise funds.

If a computer science professor or someone else comes along and wants
a larger order that would be great, though
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Its a big market.



OK, if I understand you correctly, your idea is to recruit Sugar developers
by selling them XO-1s individually?

This would be more efficient than engaging a computer science professor
with a class, supporting an inner-city elementary school?

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> > OLPC France has managed the Nosy Komba, Madagascar microdeployment for
> years
> > now in partnership with other NGOs and the learnings have been fantastic.
>
> Great! No need to duplicate that :)



What duplication? An island fishing community with a single one-room school
is quite a different place from an American classroom

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Walter Bender]

Off the top of my head, the bulk chargers do 10 batteries at a time. I have
two to donate to a large order.

-walter

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Hi
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 04:07, Sean DALY  wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Chihurumnaya Ibiam
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi, i think this is a good idea, but i don't think buying and selling to
> >> make profit is part of SL's agenda. I'm i wrong?
> >
> > If proceeds from the sale(s) benefit the organization and not
> individuals,
> > there is no "profit".
>
> Profit in a technical sense means surplus remaining after all fixed
> capital costs and labour costs have been paid; some of this surplus is
> typically distributed to a tax authority, and some is reinvested into
> the organization, and in a for-profit org, some is paid out to the
> shareholders as dividends.
>
> Sugar Labs is a project of a US charity, and so the US tax authority
> gives the charity a break on most tax distributions, and there are no
> shareholders so there are no dividends. However, the org still pays
> fixed capital costs and labour costs, and our project contributes to
> both of those by allocating 10% of all revenue to the org.
>
> So buying and selling anything to pay out dividends to private
> individuals is not part of SL's agenda; but buying and selling
> something to create surplus to reinvest into the project is part of
> the agenda (or ought to be, if it is to be an effective project.)
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 04:20, Sean DALY  wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:07 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
> >>
> >> individual units regularly clear $100 each
> >
> > If these are functioning units, I support the idea,
>
> The listing says are functioning:
>
> This full listing says: "Qty 172 - OLPC - One Laptop Per Child XO-1
> w/7.5" TFT, 256MB RAM & 1024KB Flash ROM...All have been tested to
> post...More information about these units can be found on line at link
> below...Includes 254 chargers, 90 extra batteries plus 10 charging
> racks, if desired..Customer is responsible for arrangement of
> freight trucking pickup and insurance from our dock, FOB Destination.
> One pallet of laptops, 2 pallets of charging racksSold as
> is...Payment must be made within 24 hours of purchase."
>
> "All have been tested to post" suggest to me that they have tested
> them to at least boot and have the screen turn on. I think that is
> good enough for a developer excited about the project, which is the
> market I propose targeting.
>
> > but perhaps what should
> > be done is to try to keep them together in a single microdeployment by
> > partnering with another nonprofit, a sponsor, or a university.
>
> If this raises the same amount of funds for SL, I think that is fine,
> but I am skeptical of that.
>
> > For example a
> > college could do a project for a local elementary school. Sales logistics
> > for individual shipments are difficult, with no benefit to SL.
>
> I totally disagree, I think this is super easy; we get the bulk
> shipment to somewhere in the US (like Walter's house or my apartment)
> and then we ask members to volunteer to share the fulfillment workload
> by taking X units and sticking them under the bed or whatever; then as
> orders trickle in, we send them out one by one, using this list or a
> wiki page to co-ordinate.
>
> > Kept together, we could study the XO's place in the 2016 context,
> showing how the
> > software has evolved.
>
> Per the Pareto principle I am skeptical of the value of studying a
> group of 80 or 160 users, compared to studying a group of 3-5 users.
>
> We do not have a shortage of passive users who don't contribute code to
> Sugar.
>
> We do have a shortage of active developers who do contribute code to Sugar.
>
> > OLPC France has managed the Nosy Komba, Madagascar microdeployment for
> years
> > now in partnership with other NGOs and the learnings have been fantastic.
>
> Great! No need to duplicate that :)
>
> > These units have US keyboards and would be suited to a deployment there
> - it
> > could be problematic to deploy them elsewhere.
>
> US keyboards are ideal for developers; and are fine for anyone being
> instructed in English.
>
> On 13 June 2016 at 04:19, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
> >
> > They are XO1s... does Sugar run OK on the XO1?
>
> Yes, and it seems to me that it is essential that Sugar runs OK on the
> XO-1 for another 5 years.
>
> > $100 seems steep for an XO1.  In the USA, apparently less than $100
> yeilds
> > you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just searched
> it
> > on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and see if we
> need to
> > go lower?
>
> For less!?
>
> Actually I would start at $200 (the RRP ;) and asking people to
> enquire about discounts if they need 'em.
>
> Software developers are one of the most expensive labour 

Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

On 13 June 2016 at 04:07, Sean DALY  wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Chihurumnaya Ibiam
>  wrote:
>>
>> Hi, i think this is a good idea, but i don't think buying and selling to
>> make profit is part of SL's agenda. I'm i wrong?
>
> If proceeds from the sale(s) benefit the organization and not individuals,
> there is no "profit".

Profit in a technical sense means surplus remaining after all fixed
capital costs and labour costs have been paid; some of this surplus is
typically distributed to a tax authority, and some is reinvested into
the organization, and in a for-profit org, some is paid out to the
shareholders as dividends.

Sugar Labs is a project of a US charity, and so the US tax authority
gives the charity a break on most tax distributions, and there are no
shareholders so there are no dividends. However, the org still pays
fixed capital costs and labour costs, and our project contributes to
both of those by allocating 10% of all revenue to the org.

So buying and selling anything to pay out dividends to private
individuals is not part of SL's agenda; but buying and selling
something to create surplus to reinvest into the project is part of
the agenda (or ought to be, if it is to be an effective project.)

On 13 June 2016 at 04:20, Sean DALY  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 7:07 AM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>
>> individual units regularly clear $100 each
>
> If these are functioning units, I support the idea,

The listing says are functioning:

This full listing says: "Qty 172 - OLPC - One Laptop Per Child XO-1
w/7.5" TFT, 256MB RAM & 1024KB Flash ROM...All have been tested to
post...More information about these units can be found on line at link
below...Includes 254 chargers, 90 extra batteries plus 10 charging
racks, if desired..Customer is responsible for arrangement of
freight trucking pickup and insurance from our dock, FOB Destination.
One pallet of laptops, 2 pallets of charging racksSold as
is...Payment must be made within 24 hours of purchase."

"All have been tested to post" suggest to me that they have tested
them to at least boot and have the screen turn on. I think that is
good enough for a developer excited about the project, which is the
market I propose targeting.

> but perhaps what should
> be done is to try to keep them together in a single microdeployment by
> partnering with another nonprofit, a sponsor, or a university.

If this raises the same amount of funds for SL, I think that is fine,
but I am skeptical of that.

> For example a
> college could do a project for a local elementary school. Sales logistics
> for individual shipments are difficult, with no benefit to SL.

I totally disagree, I think this is super easy; we get the bulk
shipment to somewhere in the US (like Walter's house or my apartment)
and then we ask members to volunteer to share the fulfillment workload
by taking X units and sticking them under the bed or whatever; then as
orders trickle in, we send them out one by one, using this list or a
wiki page to co-ordinate.

> Kept together, we could study the XO's place in the 2016 context, showing how 
> the
> software has evolved.

Per the Pareto principle I am skeptical of the value of studying a
group of 80 or 160 users, compared to studying a group of 3-5 users.

We do not have a shortage of passive users who don't contribute code to Sugar.

We do have a shortage of active developers who do contribute code to Sugar.

> OLPC France has managed the Nosy Komba, Madagascar microdeployment for years
> now in partnership with other NGOs and the learnings have been fantastic.

Great! No need to duplicate that :)

> These units have US keyboards and would be suited to a deployment there - it
> could be problematic to deploy them elsewhere.

US keyboards are ideal for developers; and are fine for anyone being
instructed in English.

On 13 June 2016 at 04:19, Sam Parkinson  wrote:
>
> They are XO1s... does Sugar run OK on the XO1?

Yes, and it seems to me that it is essential that Sugar runs OK on the
XO-1 for another 5 years.

> $100 seems steep for an XO1.  In the USA, apparently less than $100 yeilds
> you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just searched it
> on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and see if we need to
> go lower?

For less!?

Actually I would start at $200 (the RRP ;) and asking people to
enquire about discounts if they need 'em.

Software developers are one of the most expensive labour commodities,
and buying equipment is a tax write-off for anyone who has their shit
together.

> But at $75 or $50, that's a nice thing to put on the frontpage of the site.
> This will be amazing.  We can setup the infrastructure for selling devices,
> sending updates to people, etc.  We can empower deployment who need the
> hardware.

:D

> The "profit" can probably be invested in things we need.  

Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Dave Crossland]

On 13 June 2016 at 07:05, Walter Bender  wrote:
> Google just donated 8000 chromebooks to the X-Prize. Maybe we could try to
> go that route?

Well, are we supporting XO-1s in the next 3 releases or not?

If we are, I think people get EXCITED about 'the little green $100
laptop' and even if these units did not come with ANY batteries but
came with PSUs, we would be able to shift 172 units worldwide out of
my studio apartment in NYC to the next 172 Sugar developers.
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Walter Bender]

I have to say I with Samuel Greenfeld on this one. There are lots of
potential issues with these machines (depending upon how they have been
stored and maintained.) They could well have dead batteries (both the main
battery and the battery for the RTC). They most certainly will need an
investment in time by someone getting them unlocked and reflashed as well.
That said, if we go that route, I have two bulk battery charging racks we
could add to the mix.

Google just donated 8000 chromebooks to the X-Prize. Maybe we could try to
go that route?

-walter

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:20 AM, Samuel Greenfeld 
wrote:

> FOB (Freight on Board) means that the responsibility for customs fees,
> shipping charges, etc. belongs to the buyer.  XOs directly purchased from
> OLPC historically had similar terms.
>
> The shipping calculator on that listing can give you a rough idea of what
> it would cost to get to you in the US (around $500-$1000 uninsured).
>
> Personally I think it is a waste of funds and time given that someone will
> have to go through all 172 XOs to verify their functionality, determine
> which 10-year-old batteries still can hold a charge, make repairs, etc.  It
> would primarily be of interest to projects which already get donated XO-1s
> and could salvage parts of necessary, but not necessarily at the $4k price
> point.
>
> Reselling the laptops as usable also would incur a bit of liability that
> the recycler (selling as-is) is not willing to take.  About the only good
> thing is that this recycler does not appear to be shipping from
> Massachusetts, where one recycler was selling pre-release parts even after
> being told they were not usable by anyone else.
>
>
> While we seem to have discovered Sugar Labs has money this year, Sugar
> Labs is not a bank for everyone's little pet project.  *Before* we spend
> any significant portion of funds beyond the significant amount already
> allocated for stipends & translation, I would like to see proof that Sugar
> Labs can fund raise most of the money already spent back.
>
> The only valid way I could see doing this would be to ask the recycler if
> they would be willing to just donate the laptops to the SFC (or another
> 501(c)3 registered XO-using nonprofit) and take the profit as a tax
> writeoff.  But *before* this gets done, it really needs to be discussed by
> Sugar Labs' board {NOT people begging the recycler to do so via individual
> actions - if anything that would encourage them to raise their expected
> price}.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 6:08 AM, Sean DALY  wrote:
>
>> they mean loading dock i.e. where you send the truck
>> Sean
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Sam Parkinson > > wrote:
>>
>>> Dave, I don't frequent EBay listings, but it says:
>>>
>>> >  Customer is responsible for arrangement of freight trucking pickup
>>> and insurance from our dock
>>>
>>> Is that referring to the charging docks or the palette of laptops?
>>>
>>> Obviously this is a small detail that doesn't effect the discussion, but
>>> it would probably change the figures a bit.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sam
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514
>>> I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110 release, and
>>> sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly clear $100 each, so
>>> this will raise around $13,000
>>> --
>>> Cheers Dave ___ IAEP -- It's
>>> An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
>> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>>
>
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

they mean loading dock i.e. where you send the truck
Sean


On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Sam Parkinson 
wrote:

> Dave, I don't frequent EBay listings, but it says:
>
> >  Customer is responsible for arrangement of freight trucking pickup and
> insurance from our dock
>
> Is that referring to the charging docks or the palette of laptops?
>
> Obviously this is a small detail that doesn't effect the discussion, but
> it would probably change the figures a bit.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:
>
> Hi
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514
> I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110 release, and
> sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly clear $100 each, so
> this will raise around $13,000
> --
> Cheers Dave ___ IAEP -- It's
> An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
>
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
>
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sam Parkinson]

Dave, I don't frequent EBay listings, but it says:

>  Customer is responsible for arrangement of freight trucking pickup 
and insurance from our dock


Is that referring to the charging docks or the palette of laptops?

Obviously this is a small detail that doesn't effect the discussion, 
but it would probably change the figures a bit.


Thanks,
Sam

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

Hi

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514

I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110
release, and sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly
clear $100 each, so this will raise around $13,000

--
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sam Parkinson]

Hi Dave,

They are XO1s... does Sugar run OK on the XO1?

$100 seems steep for an XO1.  In the USA, apparently less than $100 
yeilds you a "tablet" from "Walmart" (can't vouch for anything... just 
searched it on the net) [1].  Maybe sell it for less?  Or try $100 and 
see if we need to go lower?


But at $75 or $50, that's a nice thing to put on the frontpage of the 
site.  This will be amazing.  We can setup the infrastructure for 
selling devices, sending updates to people, etc.  We can empower 
deployment who need the hardware.


The "profit" can probably be invested in things we need.  Devel work?  
More capital for selling more devices (aka. things other than XO1)?  
Anyway, that is off topic... we can deal with that if the money 
actually eventuates.


But it is also great for our growth.  Not everybody installs OSes, but 
most people are familiar with the idea of buying a box of hardware.  Is 
$75 expensive?  In a school budget yes probably.  But there are 
defiantly some people who would be willing to spend it.


This is a very good use of the SL capital.

We obviously need to think about the risk.  If we spend $4000 on XOs, 
at the price of $75, we need to sell 50 (+more to cover postage costs) 
to make the money back.  Is that likely?  I would say yes... that is 
about 2 classes of students.


Of course, people will argue that it is not SL's job to get involved in 
selling hardware.  On the same token, nobody would say that is NOT SL's 
job to promote Sugar.  Selling a small batch of hardware is just a way 
of promoting our software.  This isn't OLPC scale, SL is not becoming 
an OEM... it is "Uncle Dave's Phone Repair Shop" scale.


Thanks,
Sam

[1]  
http://www.walmart.com/ip/RCA-Viking-Pro-10.1-2-in-1-Tablet-32GB-Quad-Core/45804384


On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

Hi

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514

I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110
release, and sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly
clear $100 each, so this will raise around $13,000

--
Cheers
Dave
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Sean DALY]

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 9:53 AM, Chihurumnaya Ibiam <
ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, i think this is a good idea, but i don't think buying and selling to
> make profit is part of SL's agenda. I'm i wrong?



If proceeds from the sale(s) benefit the organization and not individuals,
there is no "profit".

Sean
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Re: [IAEP] 172 XO-1s for $24 each (+ freight) $4,000 total

[Chihurumnaya Ibiam]

Hi, i think this is a good idea, but i don't think buying and selling to
make profit is part of SL's agenda. I'm i wrong?

On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 10:07 PM, Dave Crossland  wrote:

> Hi
>
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Qty-172-OLPC-One-Laptop-Per-Child-XO-1-w-7-5-TFT-256MB-RAM-1024KB-ROM-/262478690514
>
> I propose that Sugar Labs buy these, image them with the 0.110
> release, and sale them to raise funds; individual units regularly
> clear $100 each, so this will raise around $13,000
>
> --
> Cheers
> Dave
> ___
> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep
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