Re: About 1 in 5 IBM employees now in India - so what ?
Mohammad Khan writes: >Even that's not so clear cut anymore. Indian company Hindustan Aeronautics >Limited(HAL) has been supplying parts to Boeing for some time. Yes, indeed. Boeing sources parts from around the world, including India. Japan is a major supplier of aircraft parts and subassemblies to Boeing, for example. (And Boeing thoroughly dominates the Japanese airliner market.) However, again, the growth figure I cited was in net U.S. dollar terms, not Indian Rupees. HAL's aircraft parts get counted as exports from India to the U.S. (imports to the U.S.), and then Boeing's whole assembled airplane gets counted as a much bigger export from the U.S. to India. The 25+ growth (2006 v. 2005) measures exports. I can safely assume that U.S. labor productivity did not grow at 25 percent, even including extra overtime, so by definition that export growth created jobs in the United States. There's no question there are both "winners" and "losers" (from the U.S. employment perspective) in U.S.-India bilateral trade, and there's also no question that changes in trade flows are disruptive. But there are many, many winners, and that's my point. I leave it to others to compare, contrast, and quantify the winners v. losers, but hopefully not in IBM-MAIN. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: About 1 in 5 IBM employees now in India - so what ?
Even that's not so clear cut anymore. Indian company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited(HAL) has been supplying parts to Boeing for some time. On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 16:29:50 +0900, Timothy Sipples <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I really wonder what readers from India would think about what you're >saying and whether they would have different views. I suspect they would. >Same with Boeing workers busy filling orders for Indian airlines. > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: About 1 in 5 IBM employees now in India - so what ?
Edward Jaffe writes: >Econ-101. Increased U.S. exports in the wake of declining dollar is >expected and should be no surprise to anyone. And, with the exception of >Poughkeepsie-made mainframes, the exports you listed are not IBM's product. The year 2007 hasn't ended yet, so it's only possible to compare 2006 versus 2005 (and prior) for whole year comparisons. The U.S. export growth I cited predated recent declines in the U.S. dollar. You are correct in the sense that the declining dollar should boost exports, but it should boost them above the already impressive growth baseline, ceteris paribus. I think it should have been obvious that my parentheticals were examples and not exhaustive lists. And I think I only listed "hard" goods. Software is another category I could have listed. If IBM sells DB2 for z/OS, for example, the primary beneficiaries are developers living in the vicinity of Santa Teresa, California, although there are certainly other beneficiaries. I do actually try to think about life and economic impacts beyond IBM and beyond the industry I belong to professionally. If the great and growing Indian middle class is demanding more Boeing airplanes, Caterpillar construction equipment (to build infrastructure they want), and CNH plows to grow their food, and (hypothetically) 100 jobs get generated in those industries for every 50 that IBM transfers, that's a good deal, right? Regardless -- and brace yourselves everybody :-) -- I think it's a mistake to view trade with India strictly in terms of a single industry or single company, even if it is IBM. >They want you to believe the shift is due to new hiring in "hot" >markets. But, in addition to a 20% workforce shift to India, IBM has >exported many jobs to Brazil (the Poughkeepsie operations staff, their >sysprogs, their software ordering center, etc. all gone) and Communist >China (info development -- even z/OS doc -- is now there, among others). As I mentioned before, I grew up in Connecticut, and my grandparents used to work in the button factory. That button factory is long gone: the work transferred to the southern United States. (It's now in Asia probably.) I expect they or their friends had some choice words for Carolinians or Georgians. :-) But now Connecticut makes helicopters, and insurance, and jet engines, and defense-related products, and aviation lighting systems, and cigar wrapper tobacco leaves, and deep sea exploration and recovery, and professional broadcasters, and Yale degrees, and new Broadway-bound musicals, and lots of other products and services. Nowadays Connecticut typically ranks #1 in per capita income among the 50 U.S. states. Good? Bad? Disruptive, for sure, but probably good. (Connecticut also has more forest than it did 100 years ago, because most agriculture moved elsewhere, mostly to the Midwest.) A large number of the employees IBM is hiring in places like India and China are selling and servicing products IBM exports into those markets. Not all, but many. IBM sells products and services that are most analogous to construction equipment, aircraft, and power transmission systems. IBM supplies "capital goods" to build core corporate and national infrastructure. India and China are buying lots of that sort of stuff as they grow, to keep growing. >IBM is actively engaged in a policy of firing whole divisions of >extremely capable workers from the U.S. and Europe -- the very countries >to whom they owe their great success -- and replacing them with entry >level trainees from the so-called BRIC countries. I have no idea if what you say is true. I suspect it's true to a lesser degree. The unfortunate fact is that "capable" doesn't mean "valuable," but that's not a new phenomenon. Labor markets value workers in very "strange" ways. I happen to think they grossly undervalue school teachers, for example. I really wonder what readers from India would think about what you're saying and whether they would have different views. I suspect they would. Same with Boeing workers busy filling orders for Indian airlines. Also, somebody added "so what?" to the subject line. Is this topic devolving into a discussion that has nothing to do with what people might think of as IBM-MAIN topics? - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: About 1 in 5 IBM employees now in India - so what ?
Timothy Sipples wrote: U.S. exports to India are increasing at about 25+ percent per year, or over 2.5 times faster than India's GDP growth, last I checked. Major export categories include engineering goods and machinery (e.g. construction equipment, agricultural equipment), electrical and electronic machinery (e.g. power generation and transmission equipment, Poughkeepsie-made mainframes), precious stones and metals, optical and medical instruments, and aviation-related products, among others. Econ-101. Increased U.S. exports in the wake of declining dollar is expected and should be no surprise to anyone. And, with the exception of Poughkeepsie-made mainframes, the exports you listed are not IBM's product. They want you to believe the shift is due to new hiring in "hot" markets. But, in addition to a 20% workforce shift to India, IBM has exported many jobs to Brazil (the Poughkeepsie operations staff, their sysprogs, their software ordering center, etc. all gone) and Communist China (info development -- even z/OS doc -- is now there, among others). IBM is actively engaged in a policy of firing whole divisions of extremely capable workers from the U.S. and Europe -- the very countries to whom they owe their great success -- and replacing them with entry level trainees from the so-called BRIC countries. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: About 1 in 5 IBM employees now in India - so what ?
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main as well. [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > Nothing wrong with India - but selfishly, I want jobs where I am, even > though I have it better off than those who need jobs there. > > Of course, in a global economy, you have a lot better chance to sell > your wares in countries that you spend money in. there is also issue that knowledge work is pretty distance insensitve in a global economy ... and knowledge work frequently is one of the highest valued work. recent posts about recently published study on educational ranking of different countries http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#78 Educational ranking http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#80 Educational ranking -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: About 1 in 5 IBM employees now in India - so what ?
U.S. exports to India are increasing at about 25+ percent per year, or over 2.5 times faster than India's GDP growth, last I checked. Major export categories include engineering goods and machinery (e.g. construction equipment, agricultural equipment), electrical and electronic machinery (e.g. power generation and transmission equipment, Poughkeepsie-made mainframes), precious stones and metals, optical and medical instruments, and aviation-related products, among others. There are a lot of jobs getting created in those industries, I would imagine. - - - - - Timothy Sipples IBM Consulting Enterprise Software Architect Specializing in Software Architectures Related to System z Based in Tokyo, Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: About 1 in 5 IBM employees now in India - so what ?
On 16 Dec 2007 05:28:27 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (R.S.) wrote: >So why should we pay our attention to India ? >What's wrong with India ? Nothing wrong with India - but selfishly, I want jobs where I am, even though I have it better off than those who need jobs there. Of course, in a global economy, you have a lot better chance to sell your wares in countries that you spend money in. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: About 1 in 5 IBM employees now in India - so what ?
Number of IBM employees in Poland have been tripled lately (last few years). CICS, REXX are developed in UK, VSE i Germany. Tape drives are manufactured in Mexico, disk drives were manufactured in Hungary, Sharks were assembled in Germany, partially using Polish parts. Mainframes are assembled in France and Ireland, and Japan. AFAIK, JES2 development was moved to India quite few years ago. ISPF is developed in Australia, DB2 in Canada. So why should we pay our attention to India ? What's wrong with India ? -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2007 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci opacony) wynosi 118.064.140 z. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchwa XVI WZ z dnia 21.05.2003 r., kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 118.760.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
