Re: CA and zIIPs
There is a nice fairly-introductory article about zIIP and zAAP in the upcoming IBM Journal of Research and Development: http://www.research.ibm.com/journal/rd/511/wyman.html It alludes to an internal secure switch to make work eligible on a zAAP - and that this is used by the IBM JVM rather than a Java program running under the JVM. Directing work to zIIPs is much less straightforward. Jim -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Craddock, Chris Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 5:20 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: CA and zIIPs The same with using a zAAP, I'll bet. Curiously, due to an error in my installing Java 1.5, I even know the IBM supplied module which does it. Of course, I don't know how to properly invoke that module. Not exactly. There is NO external interface to the zAAP. You get on it simply by running JAVA code in the IBM JVM. On the other hand, zIIP engines have a set of formal macro interfaces that enable work to run on them. CC Well, there must be some way that the JVM indicates to the z/OS dispatcher that the unit of work now in progress can be switched to a zAAP. I will defer to your greater knowledge as to whether it has a formal interface that could be used by OEMs. I could well be wrong that I have found the interface program - I've not tried anything, but a message looked suspicious to me. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 23:20 -0500, Ed Finnell wrote: Wonder if it's correlated to today's announcements? Limited to locales close to North America only fella ... What about the rest of us ???. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
Shane, From IBM's own web-site; zIIP is designed to help free-up general computing capacity and lower software costs for select workloads such as business intelligence (BI), ERP and CRM on the mainframe. IBM will not impose software charges on zIIP capacity1. Wonder why you believe that select workloads should be limited to DB2 only applications? If IBM had wanted the zIIP's to only be for DB2, they probably would not have allowed the interface to leave IBM. Russell Witt CA-1 Level-2 Support Manager From: Shane Ginnane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2007/02/13 Tue PM 06:10:11 CST To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: CA and zIIPs Had to happen I suppose - zIIP(s) as utility engines, rather than just DB2 engines. http://www3.ca.com/press/PressRelease.aspx?CID=99107 Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
Don't know about the rest of the 'stuff' in the announcement, but the DB2 Detector item doesn't really mean a whole lot, I don't think. Detector gets it's data by hooking the SQL PC's. I would think that that means the Detector code has no choice but to run on whatever processor the operating system has chosen for the SQL statement. There may be more to this, but I think that part of the announcement is just stating the obvious. --Dave - Original Message - From: Shane Ginnane [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:10 PM Subject: CA and zIIPs Had to happen I suppose - zIIP(s) as utility engines, rather than just DB2 engines. http://www3.ca.com/press/PressRelease.aspx?CID=99107 Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Shane Ginnane Had to happen I suppose - zIIP(s) as utility engines, rather than just DB2 engines. http://www3.ca.com/press/PressRelease.aspx?CID=99107 Hmmm Doesn't say one way or the other whether presence and use of zIIPs will affect software licensing costs Is No news [] good news? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
If IBM had wanted the zIIP's to only be for DB2, they probably would not have allowed the interface to leave IBM. So how does that work? Can anyone get the zIIP interface code and use it without having to pay a license fee to IBM? Or is CA paying IBM for access to the ZIIP and that cost will eventually get passed on in their software cost? Just seems like both CA and IBM are giving up money for nothing since so many of their products are MIPS or MSU based and off-loading cycles to zIIP processors will have us staying on 'smaller' machines longer. Or are they just starting to realize a new cost model? Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Systems Engineering [EMAIL PROTECTED] 651-665-4231(v) 651-610-7670(p) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
Don't know about the rest of the 'stuff' in the announcement, but the DB2 Detector item doesn't really mean a whole lot, I don't think. Detector gets it's data by hooking the SQL PC's. I would think that that means the Detector code has no choice but to run on whatever processor the operating system has chosen for the SQL statement. There may be more to this, but I think that part of the announcement is just stating the obvious. You're correct about that part. For Detector, it's just stating the obvious. The whole announcement is a lot more comprehensive though. There are products that merely observe the behavior of work on the zIIP. They would be used for planning and tuning and other vendors have similar function too. However, the real meat of the announcement is that several of our products really are exploiting zIIP engines to offload work from the general purpose engines. They are using the formal IBM interfaces that allow them to run on a zIIP. So that's considerably different than just being a casual bystander. And there will be more coming. Maybe it's not your father's CA after all? CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
I thought that the zIIP was proprietary to IBM, I guess not anymore. A couple of snippets from the DBTA 5 Minute Briefing. Among the CA solutions announced today is Unicenter NetMaster Network Management for TCP/IP, which offloads statistical analysis of packet flows by its Packet Analyzer component and the trace processing performed by its SmartTrace component to one or more zIIP engines. Another product, BrightStor CA-Vtape Virtual Tape System, frees up capacity on general purpose processors by offloading its processing to zIIP engines, thereby reducing the cost of tape storage while adding greater scalability and reliability to virtual tape implementations, CA said. Also announced was BrightStor Tape Encryption, which employs zIIP engines to reduce general processor capacity requirements, enabling customers to protect data with existing hardware. CA also unveiled Unicenter NeuMICS Resource Management, which enables system administrators to determine workloads that will deliver maximum ROI through the zIIP processor. Additional CA solutions, including the CA IDMS and CA DATACOM database management systems, will exploit zIIP over the next 12 to 18 months, according to the company. It is kind of a slow, steady build towards serious exploitation of the zIIP, said Re. I think where we would like to end up is that the customer could think of that zIIP engine almost as an embedded management appliance. All of the management function runs there, all of the stuff that you really don't want to use general mainframe MIPS for ends up on that zIIP engine - it saves the customer a lot of money and gives him a lot of flexibility about where to put these different product functions. Craddock, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 02/14/2007 08:45 AM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject Re: CA and zIIPs Don't know about the rest of the 'stuff' in the announcement, but the DB2 Detector item doesn't really mean a whole lot, I don't think. Detector gets it's data by hooking the SQL PC's. I would think that that means the Detector code has no choice but to run on whatever processor the operating system has chosen for the SQL statement. There may be more to this, but I think that part of the announcement is just stating the obvious. You're correct about that part. For Detector, it's just stating the obvious. The whole announcement is a lot more comprehensive though. There are products that merely observe the behavior of work on the zIIP. They would be used for planning and tuning and other vendors have similar function too. However, the real meat of the announcement is that several of our products really are exploiting zIIP engines to offload work from the general purpose engines. They are using the formal IBM interfaces that allow them to run on a zIIP. So that's considerably different than just being a casual bystander. And there will be more coming. Maybe it's not your father's CA after all? CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
Jeffrey Deaver asks If IBM had wanted the zIIP's to only be for DB2, they probably would not have allowed the interface to leave IBM. So how does that work? Can anyone get the zIIP interface code and use it without having to pay a license fee to IBM? Yes. If you are an IBM PartnerWorld member you can get a license from IBM. The license is free because in essence the vendor is offering to provide a benefit to IBM customers. These days anything that helps attract or retain work on the platform is in both IBM's interests and the vendor's interests. Once you have signed the license agreement you get access to the interface spec. It is a pretty simple document and there are only a small number of macro calls required to get it going. I do want to emphasize that we are using the formal interfaces and not sneaking in through the back door. Or is CA paying IBM for access to the ZIIP and that cost will eventually get passed on in their software cost? No, we're not paying anything so there is nothing to be passed along. Just seems like both CA and IBM are giving up money for nothing since so many of their products are MIPS or MSU based and off-loading cycles to zIIP processors will have us staying on 'smaller' machines longer. Or are they just starting to realize a new cost model? IBM says offload engines don't count for software MSUs and the vendor community has a gentleman's agreement to follow suit. As far as I know everyone is sticking by that. The bottom line on all of the offload engines is that the whole industry needed a new cost model to remain competitive. There is nothing sinister about it and IBM has given all of the vendors access to the same resources and capabilities. A level playing field is good for everyone. CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Craddock, Chris [ snip ] IBM says offload engines don't count for software MSUs and the vendor community has a gentleman's agreement to follow suit. As far as I know everyone is sticking by that. The bottom line on all of the offload engines is that the whole industry needed a new cost model to remain competitive. There is nothing sinister about it and IBM has given all of the vendors access to the same resources and capabilities. A level playing field is good for everyone. How about VWLC? (Or is it there and I'm missing it?) Any other vendor reps (ASG, Compuware, etc.) care to chime in on this? -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
zIIP and chargeback. So what are people doing with their internal chargeback models and the cycles that get moved to these speciality engines? Charging the same as CP cycles? Some reduced amount? Free? Seems like they ought to perhaps still get charged something, but that it would perhaps be quite a bit less since it seems that quite a bit of capacity drivers are based on CP MIPS and their ripple effects on other charges. But how much? Thanks. Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Systems Engineering [EMAIL PROTECTED] 651-665-4231(v) 651-610-7670(p) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
John Chase asks How about VWLC? (Or is it there and I'm missing it?) Any other vendor reps (ASG, Compuware, etc.) care to chime in on this? Honestly I have no idea. I don't do pricing at all. That's a black art and I would probably be hung before dawn for even having an opinion on it. CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
In a message dated 2/14/2007 8:57:21 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Honestly I have no idea. I don't do pricing at all. That's a black art and I would probably be hung before dawn for even having an opinion on it. I had a curiosity question. How does WLM handle zIIP'd workloads? Or if you're really sneaky could you run zIIPs only? Back to the Weather Channel. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
NOTICE: All information in and attached to the e-mail(s) below may be proprietary, confidential, privileged and otherwise protected from improper or erroneous disclosure. If you are not the sender's intended recipient, you are not authorized to intercept, read, print, retain, copy, forward, or disseminate this message. If you have erroneously received this communication, please notify the sender immediately by phone (704-758-1000) or by e-mail and destroy all copies of this message (electronic, paper, or otherwise). Thank you. You have to have at least one real CP for each zIIP CP, so you still have to have some workload. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Finnell Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:08 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: CA and zIIPs In a message dated 2/14/2007 8:57:21 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Honestly I have no idea. I don't do pricing at all. That's a black art and I would probably be hung before dawn for even having an opinion on it. I had a curiosity question. How does WLM handle zIIP'd workloads? Or if you're really sneaky could you run zIIPs only? Back to the Weather Channel. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
z/IIP work loads are only enclave SRB mode units of work, and then only for an enclave that you set up for working in a z/IIP. One way to get your license to use the z/IIP interface terminated is to try and dispatch TCB work on a z/IIP. I didn't say this, but if I know about all this, do you think we aren't looking at utilizing z/IIP processors? I don't do marketing or pricing, but at this point in time, it seems z/IIP mips will not be used in mip based pricing, at least by BMC. Christopher Y. Blaicher BMC Software, Inc. Austin Development Labs (512) 340-6154 The comments made are my personal opinions. BMC Software, Inc. makes no representations or promises regarding the reliability, completeness, or accuracy of the information provided in this discussion; all readers agree not to rely on this information or take any action against BMC Software in response to this information. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ed Finnell Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:08 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: CA and zIIPs In a message dated 2/14/2007 8:57:21 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Honestly I have no idea. I don't do pricing at all. That's a black art and I would probably be hung before dawn for even having an opinion on it. I had a curiosity question. How does WLM handle zIIP'd workloads? Or if you're really sneaky could you run zIIPs only? Back to the Weather Channel. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
Rus wrote on 14/02/2007 10:35:46 PM: zIIP is designed to help free-up general computing capacity and lower software costs for select workloads such as business intelligence (BI), ERP and CRM on the mainframe. IBM will not impose software charges on zIIP capacity1. Wonder why you believe that select workloads should be limited to DB2 only applications? If IBM had wanted the zIIP's to only be for DB2, they probably would not have allowed the interface to leave IBM. What makes you think I think that ... :-) IBM put particular (marketing) effort into projecting the zIIP as a DB2 benefit. You and I and everybodies dog knew that creating an entity that could be dispatched on a zIIP just needed a little (non published) interface info. Not all the people capable of doing that work for ISVs or are Partnerworld members. For a lot of us that info *hasn't* left IBM. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shane Ginnane Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: CA and zIIPs Rus wrote on 14/02/2007 10:35:46 PM: zIIP is designed to help free-up general computing capacity and lower software costs for select workloads such as business intelligence (BI), ERP and CRM on the mainframe. IBM will not impose software charges on zIIP capacity1. Wonder why you believe that select workloads should be limited to DB2 only applications? If IBM had wanted the zIIP's to only be for DB2, they probably would not have allowed the interface to leave IBM. What makes you think I think that ... :-) IBM put particular (marketing) effort into projecting the zIIP as a DB2 benefit. You and I and everybodies dog knew that creating an entity that could be dispatched on a zIIP just needed a little (non published) interface info. Not all the people capable of doing that work for ISVs or are Partnerworld members. For a lot of us that info *hasn't* left IBM. Shane ... The same with using a zAAP, I'll bet. Curiously, due to an error in my installing Java 1.5, I even know the IBM supplied module which does it. Of course, I don't know how to properly invoke that module. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
The same with using a zAAP, I'll bet. Curiously, due to an error in my installing Java 1.5, I even know the IBM supplied module which does it. Of course, I don't know how to properly invoke that module. Not exactly. There is NO external interface to the zAAP. You get on it simply by running JAVA code in the IBM JVM. On the other hand, zIIP engines have a set of formal macro interfaces that enable work to run on them. CC -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
CA and zIIPs
Had to happen I suppose - zIIP(s) as utility engines, rather than just DB2 engines. http://www3.ca.com/press/PressRelease.aspx?CID=99107 Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
Well, let me see... CA-VTAPE is my biggest CPU user by far and CA software cost is seriously delaying a CPU upgrade. I think I'm mighty interested in what Chris' folks are up to. Bob Shane Ginnane wrote: Had to happen I suppose - zIIP(s) as utility engines, rather than just DB2 engines. http://www3.ca.com/press/PressRelease.aspx?CID=99107 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: CA and zIIPs
In a message dated 2/13/2007 6:10:36 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Had to happen I suppose - zIIP(s) as utility engines, rather than just DB2 engines. Wonder if it's correlated to today's announcements? _307-039 Modification: IBM System z9 solution for SAP rebate offering _ (http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi/fcgi-bin/ssialias?subtype=cainfotype=anappname =iSourcesupplier=897letternum=ENUSC07-010#307-039) _307-040 IBM System z9 solution for DB2 rebate offering _ (http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi/fcgi-bin/ssialias?subtype=cainfotype=anappname=iSourcesuppl ier=897letternum=ENUSC07-010#307-040) _307-041 Modification: IBM System z9 solution for Oracle rebate offering _ (http://www-306.ibm.com/common/ssi/fcgi-bin/ssialias?subtype=cainfotype=anappn ame=iSourcesupplier=897letternum=ENUSC07-010#307-041) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
