Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-31 Thread Rob Wunderlich
On Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:22:35 +0100, Jim McAlpine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

Rob, do you run this directly from TSO.

Jim McAlpine

Yes, batch TSO. It runs as part of a program generation job. Could run 
foreground TSO if we had an application.

-Rob

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-28 Thread Jim McAlpine

Rob, do you run this directly from TSO.

Jim McAlpine


On 7/25/06, Rob Wunderlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:25:00 +0100, Jim McAlpine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Are ther any CVS clients available that allow source to be brought into
PDS
datasets as opposed to HFS file systems.


I update CVS indirectly from PDS members. I accomplsh this by using a
bridge exec that OCOPYs the PDS member to temp HFS files before invoking
CVS client on the temp HFS files.

-Rob

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread Jim McAlpine

Are ther any CVS clients available that allow source to be brought into PDS
datasets as opposed to HFS file systems.

Jim McAlpine


On 7/25/06, Rob Wunderlich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:08:58 +0900, Timothy Sipples
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Jim McAlpine wrote:
Can someone point me to a url for the latest version of the above along
with
some installation instructions.

There is a CVS for z/OS (server and client) available here:

http://cvsmvs.dccmn.com

I'm using this z/os client to communicate with a CVSNT server. Only
significant issue I've run across is that passwords longer than 8
characters will not work (they appear to get truncated to 8 chars), even
though the target server supports longer passwords.

You might also want to consider using one of the java CVS clients -- they
should run on z/os as well.

-Rob

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Jim McAlpine said:

 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:25:00 +0100
 
 Are ther any CVS clients available that allow source to be brought into PDS
 datasets as opposed to HFS file systems.
 
This should be less a concern nowadays, since there's (at least
limited) BPAM support for HFS file systems.

-- gil
-- 
StorageTek
INFORMATION made POWERFUL

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread Rob Wunderlich
On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:25:00 +0100, Jim McAlpine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

Are ther any CVS clients available that allow source to be brought into PDS
datasets as opposed to HFS file systems.


I update CVS indirectly from PDS members. I accomplsh this by using a 
bridge exec that OCOPYs the PDS member to temp HFS files before invoking 
CVS client on the temp HFS files. 

-Rob

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Rob Wunderlich said:

 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:04:28 -0500
 
 I update CVS indirectly from PDS members. I accomplsh this by using a
 bridge exec that OCOPYs the PDS member to temp HFS files before invoking
 CVS client on the temp HFS files.
 
But, then, why do you need the PDS at all?  OCOPY, instead, to a
durable HFS file, delete the PDS, and be done with it.

-- gil
-- 
StorageTek
INFORMATION made POWERFUL

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread McKown, John
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
 Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 2:35 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: CVS for MVS
 
 
 In a recent note, Rob Wunderlich said:
 
  Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:04:28 -0500
  
  I update CVS indirectly from PDS members. I accomplsh this 
 by using a
  bridge exec that OCOPYs the PDS member to temp HFS files 
 before invoking
  CVS client on the temp HFS files.
  
 But, then, why do you need the PDS at all?  OCOPY, instead, to a
 durable HFS file, delete the PDS, and be done with it.
 
 -- gil

IIRC, BPAM support for HFS directories is read-only. If somebody want
to use legacy programs to update a member of an emulated PDS in an
HFS, then it would fail. So the PDS may still be needed. E.g. using
IEBUPDTE shudder or maybe, like me, they have some ISPF edit macros
which they run in batch which scan and update members of a given PDS.

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

This message (including any attachments) contains confidential
information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its
content is protected by law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you
should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action
based on it, is strictly prohibited. 
 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, McKown, John said:

 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:44:59 -0500
 
 IIRC, BPAM support for HFS directories is read-only. If somebody want
 to use legacy programs to update a member of an emulated PDS in an
 HFS, then it would fail. So the PDS may still be needed. E.g. using
 IEBUPDTE shudder or maybe, like me, they have some ISPF edit macros
 which they run in batch which scan and update members of a given PDS.
 
Good points.  I agree (and I stated) the support is partial.
I hope it's on IBM's agenda to provide ISPF LM, BPAM
write, and DESERV support for HFS directories.

I'd certainly use patch rather than IEBUPDTE.

-- gil
-- 
StorageTek
INFORMATION made POWERFUL

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread McKown, John
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
 Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 2:54 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: CVS for MVS
 
 
 In a recent note, McKown, John said:
 

snip

 Good points.  I agree (and I stated) the support is partial.
 I hope it's on IBM's agenda to provide ISPF LM, BPAM
 write, and DESERV support for HFS directories.

That would be very nice. However, around here, we are not likely to ever
use HFS/ZFS instead of PDS or PDSE files for a number of reasons. Some
are good, others are bad.

1) Nobody recognized me, I didn't look the same. That is, people
around here tend to not be too interested in new things. They are too
busy trying to bail the boat to worry about painting it a new color.
Very few here have any notion of UNIX concepts. Even fewer care. Perhaps
a bit short sighted, but what can I do? I try, but nobody wants to
listen.

2) Our application backup methodology is based on a product called VFI.
VFI does not currently support HFS/ZFS resident files, only legacy
files (PDS, sequential - disk and tape resident, and VSAM). VFI finds
changed/created files by processing SMF records. HFS file activity does
not cut SMF type 14/15 records when a file is closed. As best as I can
tell, there is no way to track HFS file activity via SMF records.

3) Speaking of the above, we often use MXG to answer the question: Who
is using a particular file? We do this to determine if a file can be
eliminated.

4) DFSMShsm does not support UNIX resident files. I think that some
Tivoli product does, but that is more money for no better
functionality.

5) Cannot use a UNIX subdirectory in a STEPLIB/JOBLIB. This really
destroys any desire on my part to put any legacy programs in a UNIX
subdirectory.

6) Increased RACF work to assign everybody a unique UNIX UID. This could
likely be automated, using the AUTOUID in the ADDUSER. This assumes that
people would want to replace their personal PDSes with UNIX
subdirectories. A very unlikely scenario, in my opinion. see #1 above


Having said all of that, I would really LOVE to try to NFS export, or
use SMB, so that my z/OS UNIX home would be accessable from my
workstation. I am aware that people have done this, but I think it would
require some help from the Windows server people. Or at least their
acquiesce to let me try. I feel this is very unlikely. Right now we are
in detente with them. In the past, open warfare. Some of which I will
admit is my fault.

 
 I'd certainly use patch rather than IEBUPDTE.

I very much agree! Especially since I generate them using diff and
never by hand.

 
 -- gil


--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

This message (including any attachments) contains confidential
information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its
content is protected by law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you
should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action
based on it, is strictly prohibited. 
 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread Ted MacNEIL
VFI finds changed/created files by processing SMF records.

That seems excessive.
Wouldn't it be better to just go and look at VTOCs?


When in doubt.
PANIC!!

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread McKown, John
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL
 Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:00 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: CVS for MVS
 
 
 VFI finds changed/created files by processing SMF records.
 
 That seems excessive.
 Wouldn't it be better to just go and look at VTOCs?

I am not the designer. Luckily, neither am I the support person. And
looking at VTOCs is fine for DASD resident datasets. But it could take a
long time to scan all the online DASD. An how can you be sure that you
really found all the changed files? Something might have changed the
needs backup bit.

Also, VFI will copy tape datasets. This allows the application to create
a single tape output and let VFI worry about making an off-site disaster
copy.

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

This message (including any attachments) contains confidential
information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its
content is protected by law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you
should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action
based on it, is strictly prohibited. 
 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread Ted MacNEIL
But it could take a long time to scan all the online DASD.

Processing SMF data is not a quick process.
We do it successfully with HSM in parallel tasks for 9.5TB.


An how can you be sure that you really found all the changed files?

If I lost SMF, how can I be sure.
You also have to make an assumption that your definitions and the software are 
both correct.
Either for HSM or for VFI.

When in doubt.
PANIC!!

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, McKown, John said:

 Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:18:21 -0500
 
  I'd certainly use patch rather than IEBUPDTE.
 
 I very much agree! Especially since I generate them using diff and
 never by hand.
 
SuperC will generate IEBUPDTE input (option UPDMVS8).  But
it's so unreliable that when I want to do this, I use
option UPDCMS8 (CMS UPDATE format) and run a Rexx filter
to convert to IEBUPDTE format.

-- gil
-- 
StorageTek
INFORMATION made POWERFUL

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-25 Thread Timothy Sipples
Rob Wunderlich writes:
You might also want to consider using one of the java CVS clients -- they
should run on z/os as well.

That's another good idea, Rob.  To expand on that, here's one such Java
implementation:

http://javacvs.netbeans.org/library/index.html

- - - - -
Timothy F. Sipples
Consulting Enterprise Software Architect, z9/zSeries
Tokyo (Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific)
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


CVS for MVS

2006-07-24 Thread Jim McAlpine

Can someone point me to a url for the latest version of the above along with
some installation instructions.

Jim McAlpine

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-24 Thread Bruce Black
Can someone point me to a url for the latest version of the above 
along with
some installation instructions. 
Jim, I hate to pick on you, but one of my hot buttons is posters who 
throw out initials or acronyms and expect everyone on the list to know 
what they are.   The only CVS I know of is a drugstore gr.  Except for 
very well-known MVS terms, a little explanation is appreciated.


--
Bruce A. Black
Senior Software Developer for FDR
Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300
personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-24 Thread Edward Jaffe

Bruce Black wrote:
Can someone point me to a url for the latest version of the above 
along with
some installation instructions. 
Jim, I hate to pick on you, but one of my hot buttons is posters who 
throw out initials or acronyms and expect everyone on the list to know 
what they are.   The only CVS I know of is a drugstore gr.  Except 
for very well-known MVS terms, a little explanation is appreciated.


http://www.nongnu.org/cvs/

--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-24 Thread Jim McAlpine

Sorry Bruce, I didn't know anything about it myself until today, so I should
have known better.  CVS stands for Concurrent Versions System and it is an
open source system which is unix based and is used for version control of
source code in a development environment.  Something akin to the
commercially available system PVCS if you have come across that. I'm afraid
I don't remember what PVCS stands for :-)

Jim McAlpine


On 7/24/06, Bruce Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 Can someone point me to a url for the latest version of the above
 along with
 some installation instructions.
Jim, I hate to pick on you, but one of my hot buttons is posters who
throw out initials or acronyms and expect everyone on the list to know
what they are.   The only CVS I know of is a drugstore gr.  Except for
very well-known MVS terms, a little explanation is appreciated.

--
Bruce A. Black
Senior Software Developer for FDR
Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300
personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html



--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-24 Thread Edward Jaffe

Jim McAlpine wrote:
Sorry Bruce, I didn't know anything about it myself until today, so I 
should
have known better.  CVS stands for Concurrent Versions System and it 
is an

open source system which is unix based and is used for version control of
source code in a development environment.  Something akin to the
commercially available system PVCS if you have come across that. I'm 
afraid

I don't remember what PVCS stands for :-)


It used to be Polytron Version Control System. After Polytron sold it 
to Sage, it has been owned by Intersolv, Merant, and now Serena (who 
acquired Merant). Not sure what Serena claims the P stands for now.


--
Edward E Jaffe
Phoenix Software International, Inc
5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800
Los Angeles, CA 90045
310-338-0400 x318
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-24 Thread McKown, John
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Black
 Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 11:00 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: CVS for MVS
 
 
  Can someone point me to a url for the latest version of the above 
  along with
  some installation instructions. 
 Jim, I hate to pick on you, but one of my hot buttons is posters who 
 throw out initials or acronyms and expect everyone on the 
 list to know 
 what they are.   The only CVS I know of is a drugstore gr.  
 Except for 
 very well-known MVS terms, a little explanation is appreciated.
 
 -- 
 Bruce A. Black

CVS is a change control type system for UNIX. Concurrent Version
System, or something like that. Very old and so perhaps a bit crufty,
but generally reliable. Most Linux people have moved to Subversion or
git as their change control software. git was designed and written
by Linus Thorvalds for maintaining the Linux kernel.

--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

This message (including any attachments) contains confidential
information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its
content is protected by law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you
should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action
based on it, is strictly prohibited. 
 

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-24 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], on 07/24/2006
   at 11:59 AM, Bruce Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

Jim, I hate to pick on you, but one of my hot buttons is posters who 
throw out initials or acronyms and expect everyone on the list to
know  what they are.  The only CVS I know of is a drugstore gr.

Yes, but it's a drugstore that does configuration control. Concurrent
Version System (sp?) used to be a very popular CM system; these days
it's facing some competition from Subversion.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html


Re: CVS for MVS

2006-07-24 Thread Timothy Sipples
Jim McAlpine wrote:
Can someone point me to a url for the latest version of the above along
with
some installation instructions.

There is a CVS for z/OS (server and client) available here:

http://cvsmvs.dccmn.com

along with information on a mailing list discussing this version.  This is
Version 1.11.0.5.  The current version is 1.11.22, and the source code for
that version is available here:

http://ftp.gnu.org/non-gnu/cvs/source/stable/

if you'd like to merge the two and create a new, updated z/OS version. I
would recommend letting the CVS MVS group know of your efforts and
contribute back to this open source community if you do take this step.

You will need zFS (or HFS) file space to run CVS for z/OS.

Another option is mainframe Linux. Most Linux distributions include CVS.

I should also point out that everyone who has z/OS (or OS/390) also has IBM
SCLM.

Hope that helps!

- - - - -
Timothy F. Sipples
Consulting Enterprise Software Architect, z9/zSeries
Tokyo (Serving IBM Japan and IBM Asia-Pacific)
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html