Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Typo corrected! I am reminded once again of the pitfalls of attempting written humor with an international audience. How embarrassing. You got me. We use to say that a joke that has to be explained is no longer funny. However, you just proved that this does not hold true in every case. I'm still smiling about your joke, now that I got it. ~~~ -- Peter Hunkeler CREDIT SUISSE AG -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
In of23453a55.73fc164a-on85257836.006d58ff-85257836.006f4...@us.ibm.com, on 02/13/2011 at 03:15 PM, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com said: Instead of an industry standard icon such as :-) to indicate humor, I used a quote from a fictional character on a recent episode of a popular situation comedy show on American television. Nor is it safe to assume that every resident of a country watches the local sitcoms. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress. (S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Ed I hope you don't mind the resetting of the Subject since this subdiscussion has no connection with list etiquette. ... I am afraid IBM can do whatever it wants to with acronyms. But the *official* IBM line - obviously not counting the numerous stray moggies - is that VTAM laid a claim to USS in the mid-1970s and that claim has *not* lapsed through lack of use given that the IP partner in the Communications Server consortium is opening up a new seam richly mined to this day. I can't stand it either and you always have to step back and think context when it comes to USS. Perhaps we can stand together, make a lot of fuss, gather some like minds and shoo out the USS for z/OS UNIX dictatorship! Hell if I thought I could get away with it I would not allow LE on my system. The term pet-peeve has been used to denigrate what it was thought - not really correctly - I have been on about. However, I did go over in my mind what other pet-peeves I could add to this supposed one - and came up with a few - a bit specialised however, for example PU 2.1, Ugh!, or FEP, Ugh again! Maybe the protest could be organised as the revolt of the pet- peeves. The only difficulty I see there is one which also mimics my obvious allusion.[1] The difficulty would be that one man's pet-peeve is another man's brilliant innovation and the protesters could fall out among themselves - which tends to be the fate of anarchists. Heck IBM has got the people on the OE list wanting to stay with command line over either GUI or ISPF. Back in the early 1990s, I was tasked with managing an education class based on the AIX IP network management product - which happened to be called NetView/6000, later NetView for AIX, and probably my suit imagined that, since I knew every last nook and cranny of MVS NetView, I was ideally suited - pun! - to move into NetView/6000. Of course, they were(/are) massively different products! Managing and giving this new class involved getting to know the AIX/traditional UNIX world. This was great fun but I became aware of a phenomenon which put me in mind of science fiction films where an ostensibly human being is strapped in a chamber, surrounded by some opaque gas and comes out still looking the same but, in effect, now belonging to another race of, say, super-human beings - still looking the same apart from a certain expression around the eyes, that is. In order too prepare for the class and get some assistance, I started working with these UNIX beings. It became clear that no task was too complex that it couldn't be performed by stringing together a series of UNIX commands, the output of one becoming the input to the next to the right and magically the answer appeared, all the typing having happened far too quickly for the definitely mere mortals to follow. All together now: They can't take that away from me. Chris Mason [1] For the archives, this is being written on the weekend following the resignation of Hosni Mubarak. On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 21:38:14 -0800, Ed Gould ps2...@yahoo.com wrote: Chris: I m not one that agrees with Ted. When it comes to USS I sort of agree with him BUT I am afraid IBM can do whatever it wants to with acronyms. I can't stand it either and you always have to setp back and think context when it comes to USS. The IBM people especially when it comes to FTP and other open system services came on board and violated practically every IBM standard. The standards we had argued for years about the OS people just said we aren't going to follow no stinkin standards here are ours and if you don't like it tough .The other people, LE are much the same way. Hell if I thought I could get away with it I would not allow LE on my system. I would much rather have some other vendors code other than LE if I had my choice. I would also look at other vendors for FTP. Anything to stay away from the damn open systems people. Heck IBM has got the people on the OE list wanting to stay with command line over either GUI or ISPF. Just wait 10 years and those same people will be so damn tired of commandline that they will be begging IBM for something else. I suspect when IBM releases a GUI on the mainframe it will be fun watching everyone back track. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Perhaps some form of hybrid acronym like zUSS could serve as being both highly compact and descriptive, while avoiding potential confusion with prior art. Jim, As much as I do respect you, I can't agree with that suggestion. z/OS' Health Checker compontent has chosen to name its z/OS UNIX related keywords beginning with the letters USS. A guess that this component had to pass naming convention, quality assurance and whatever other boards within IBM. The keys are still named USS_xyz. This somehow proves to me that the abbreviation is largely accepted with IBM itself. I'd really love to understand why on earth people like you are defending that term in the name of VTAM. You won't change this anymore, like nobody else will. USS has become the defacto standard name for z/OS UNIX System Services. -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 02/13/2011 08:48:13 AM: I'd really love to understand why on earth people like you are defending that term in the name of VTAM. You won't change this anymore, like nobody else will. USS has become the defacto standard name for z/OS UNIX System Services. I am reminded once again of the pitfalls of attempting written humor with an international audience. My entire post was intended to be humorous, and my suggested acronym was simply to set up the implied joke in the next paragraph, with respect to what a similar acronym might be on a widely used x86 operating system. However, recognition of the intended humor does require familiarity with American slang terminology. Instead of an industry standard icon such as :-) to indicate humor, I used a quote from a fictional character on a recent episode of a popular situation comedy show on American television. That also is likely ill advised with an international audience. Suitably chastened, I will attempt to control my obsession with obscure referential humor. For a while, at least. Jim Mulder z/OS System Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie, NY -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
On 2/13/2011 3:15 PM, Jim Mulder wrote: I will attempt to control my obsession with obscure referential humor. For a while, at least. Perhaps we can shift the discussion to why IBM is misusing RAMAC? g Gerhard Postpischil Bradford, VT -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Jim, I really should have caught that reference. I love Big Bang Theory. I wonder what Dr. Sheldon Cooper would say? ;-) Probably that he should decide any such weighty matters. And that mere systems programmers are below engineers. ;-) Rob On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com wrote: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 02/13/2011 08:48:13 AM: I'd really love to understand why on earth people like you are defending that term in the name of VTAM. You won't change this anymore, like nobody else will. USS has become the defacto standard name for z/OS UNIX System Services. I am reminded once again of the pitfalls of attempting written humor with an international audience. My entire post was intended to be humorous, and my suggested acronym was simply to set up the implied joke in the next paragraph, with respect to what a similar acronym might be on a widely used x86 operating system. However, recognition of the intended humor does require familiarity with American slang terminology. Instead of an industry standard icon such as :-) to indicate humor, I used a quote from a fictional character on a recent episode of a popular situation comedy show on American television. That also is likely ill advised with an international audience. Suitably chastened, I will attempt to control my obsession with obscure referential humor. For a while, at least. Jim Mulder z/OS System Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie, NY -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Rob Schramm Senior Systems Engineer w: 513.305.6224 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
A friend posted he had Chia balls for supper. I replied hoping he did not come down with an intestinal blockage from the clay center. On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Rob Schramm rob.schr...@gmail.com wrote: Jim, I really should have caught that reference. I love Big Bang Theory. I wonder what Dr. Sheldon Cooper would say? ;-) Probably that he should decide any such weighty matters. And that mere systems programmers are below engineers. ;-) Rob On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com wrote: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 02/13/2011 08:48:13 AM: I'd really love to understand why on earth people like you are defending that term in the name of VTAM. You won't change this anymore, like nobody else will. USS has become the defacto standard name for z/OS UNIX System Services. I am reminded once again of the pitfalls of attempting written humor with an international audience. My entire post was intended to be humorous, and my suggested acronym was simply to set up the implied joke in the next paragraph, with respect to what a similar acronym might be on a widely used x86 operating system. However, recognition of the intended humor does require familiarity with American slang terminology. Instead of an industry standard icon such as :-) to indicate humor, I used a quote from a fictional character on a recent episode of a popular situation comedy show on American television. That also is likely ill advised with an international audience. Suitably chastened, I will attempt to control my obsession with obscure referential humor. For a while, at least. Jim Mulder z/OS System Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie, NY -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Rob Schramm Senior Systems Engineer w: 513.305.6224 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
I am reminded once again of the pitfalls of attempting written humor with an international audience. How embarrassing. You got me. We use to say that a joke that has to be explained is no longer funny. However, you just proved that this does not hold true in every case. I'm still smiling about your joke, not that I got it. -- Peter Hunkeler CREDIT SUISSE AG -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Ted You are so arogant that I'm not going to bother responding to you ever again. It looks like you've already responded once too often! You carp over such an insignificant trifle and insult people just because they use USS in a different context than your oh so perfect world. There's none so ignorant as those who will not read. You carp ... Any carping on my part was in direct response to unwarranted carping. I refuse to be carped at, it's that simple! ... over such an insignificant trifle ... I agree and my initial post in this thread was indeed simply treating the matter as an insignificant trifle. It's the inventive responses which have inflated a triviality out of all proportion. ... insult people ... No evidence has been presented to support this accusation. It has somehow just been assumed. I wonder why. ... just because they use USS in a different context ... ... than is strictly correct - as - just to keep it simple for those who appear to prefer simplicity - is stated in this IBM web page which at least one responder seems to have had difficulty browsing: http://www-01.ibm.com/software/globalization/terminology/u.html quote unformatted system service (USS) A communications function that translates a character-coded command, such as a LOGON or LOGOFF command, into a field-formatted command for processing by formatted system services. See also formatted system service. ... USS See unformatted system service. /quote Actually even this august source is ever so slightly wrong since it really ought to be services - in the plural. Well, we are all supposed to strive for perfection, aren't we? And, if you are still resisting having your illusions shattered, you can take another look at this imprimatur which I posted in another response earlier - but bigotry has such a narrow throat: http://bama.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0907L=ibm- mainT=0F=S=P=198809 USS has been 'hijacked' ... Obviously a matter of opinion over which it is possible to differ and offer debate. Democracy doesn't apply but accuracy does. But, of course, if you abandon the debate, you abandon the field. ... and in the context of HFS we know which it means. I agree. As I explained in the post to John McKown, it's other contexts where misuse is potentially hazardous - and in one case I happened to spot eighteen months or so ago actually so. Grow up! On the contrary, you should descend from your elevated steed before you do yourself an injury! - Incidentally, I hope the principle perpetrator of such nonsense appreciates my having taken heed of his suggestion to initiate the change of Subject which he felt was required. Chris Mason P.S. I hope you won't consider this too arrogant of me to point out that there are two rs. After all, as I said, we should strive for perfection and my accuracy with the keyboard is so poor that I do rather rely on the Spelling icon. . On Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:30:50 +, Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca wrote: What tosh! I reserve the right to point out when a word such as, for example, bitching is used inappropriately and not to do so is not an option! You are so arogant that I'm not going to bother responding to you ever again. You carp over such an insignificant trifle and insult people just because they use USS in a different context than your oh so perfect world. USS has been 'hijacked' and in the context of HFS we know which it means. Grow up! - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Chris, I would only recommend to the others on the list that non-engagement is probably the only successful strategy. And to leave you to your opinion of USS. I would additionally ask that when you experience any outrage about USS uses, that you would channel the outrage into a new post. I do appreciate you finally starting your own thread. I have gone out to read some of your posts regarding a variety of subjects. While being a bit brittle at times, your posts did seem to indicate that you do possess a good handle on Communication Server issues. I can only say that you have not dissuaded me one bit from my current use of USS. I have the following take aways: 1) Information regarding a dirty look from a person deeply ensconced in VTAM-speak when I use USS for Unix System Services. 2) You have inspired me to act rather than just disagree with you ad nauseum and to take a page from Dilbert. I encourage everyone that considers USS to be Unix System Services to write te...@ca.ibm.com requesting the modification of the USS acronym definition. I have sent my first e-mail requesting the change, and I plan to encourage all System Programmers that USS should be changed in the official IBM Terminology page. Cheers, Rob Schramm -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Chris: I m not one that agrees with Ted. When it comes to USS I sort of agree with him BUT I am afraid IBM can do whatever it wants to with acronyms. I can't stand it either and you always have to setp back and think context when it comes to USS. The IBM people especially when it comes to FTP and other open system services came on board and violated practically every IBM standard. The standards we had argued for years about the OS people just said we aren't going to follow no stinkin standards here are ours and if you don't like it tough .The other people, LE are much the same way. Hell if I thought I could get away with it I would not allow LE on my system. I would much rather have some other vendors code other than LE if I had my choice. I would also look at other vendors for FTP. Anything to stay away from the damn open systems people. Heck IBM has got the people on the OE list wanting to stay with command line over either GUI or ISPF. Just wait 10 years and those same people will be so damn tired of commandline that they will be begging IBM for something else. I suspect when IBM releases a GUI on the mainframe it will be fun watching everyone back track. Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Doubtful list etiquette (Should have been: USS misuse again, Was: HFS file questions)
Perhaps some form of hybrid acronym like zUSS could serve as being both highly compact and descriptive, while avoiding potential confusion with prior art. Furthermore, it could establish a precedent for selecting acronyms for describing similar interface layers on other platforms. Some might even consider such acronyms to be apropos, especially with regard to a widely user operating system on x86. That was the last arrow in my quiver of whimsy. -Amy Farrah Fowler Jim Mulder z/OS System Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie, NY -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
