Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[Scott Rowe]

The MP3K CPU wasn't emulated, though some of the I/O was.

>>> Shane Ginnane  03/26/10 8:02 PM >>>
Not sold in all markets - in fact, at present it may only be available in 
(North) America.
And as you say, it's bloody expensive.

As a sysprog I get frustrated using Dallas - much more suitable for application 
developers. A zPDT 
probably be would be better.
The MP3K was emulated, but it had a HMC to play on. Very handy at times.

Shane ...

On Sat, Mar 27th, 2010 at 1:54 AM, Jim McAlpine wrote:

> The zPDT offering has been available for some time now but it it
> considerably more expensive than the Dallas RDP offering.

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[Shane Ginnane]

Not sold in all markets - in fact, at present it may only be available in 
(North) America.
And as you say, it's bloody expensive.

As a sysprog I get frustrated using Dallas - much more suitable for application 
developers. A zPDT 
probably be would be better.
The MP3K was emulated, but it had a HMC to play on. Very handy at times.

Shane ...

On Sat, Mar 27th, 2010 at 1:54 AM, Jim McAlpine wrote:

> The zPDT offering has been available for some time now but it it
> considerably more expensive than the Dallas RDP offering.

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[Sam Siegel]

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 3:15 PM, John P. Baker wrote:

> Could you enlighten us on the cost of the Dallas RDP offering?
>

I've heard Dallas RDP is about 300 to 500 USD per month.  Includes all IBM
software (CICS, DB2, IMS, etc.) current z/OS under z/VM.  Maybe 15 to 30
hours of clock time.  (Not sure exactly how it is measured.)  Certain amount
storage.  (Again not sure on how much.)  You supply your own tapes if you
need tapes.  Ability to develop authorized code.  You configure the system
to your likings.  IBM maintains the OS with respect to maintenance.

No third party software supplied.

I'm sure there are other details.

Regards,
Sam

>
> John P. Baker
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of Jim McAlpine
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:55 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
>  Subject: Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register
>
> The zPDT offering has been available for some time now but it it
> considerably more expensive than the Dallas RDP offering.
>
> Jim McAlpine
>
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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[Ted MacNEIL]

>If you have a box for DR somewhere, I assume you don't have to pay extra for 
>any software licenses for z/OS and any of its program products.  Is that true?

It used to was one mainframe-to-mainframe (GDPS) DR solutions, except for the K 
system, until activation.
And, you were allowed 5 tests a year.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[Scott T. Harder]

My personal problem is that I have - for some stupid reason - avoided *NIX like 
the plague.  It just seemed like going backwards to me when I *did* try to 
learn it pre-GUI.  I just figured, "why go back to a DOS-like or native 
TSO-like system

But, I no longer have that excuse and - you are right, John - this (open 
source) is probably the best way for me to go at this point; unless a suitable 
mainframe shop presents itself soon.  Now... what to rename my corporation 
to???  ;-)

All the best,
Scott

Scott T. Harder
Mainframe Services, Inc.
Naples, FL  

> C#?? Yuck! Install Linux/Intel. Learn lots of languages: C/C++, Objective-
> C, Perl, Python, PHP, Ruby, Erlang, Java, Clojure, Scala, Groovy, C#
> (Mono's csharp), Io, Lua, Bash (shell scripting), Lisp (many variants),
> Haskell (2 different versions), Curry, Gambas (BASIC), Ada, Forth, Scheme
> (LISP-like), OOREXX, Regina (REXX), R (statistics), Slang, TCL/Tk, even
> more.
> 
> I need an SQL database: SQLite, MySQL, PostgreSQL, Derby
> 
> I need an editor: vi/vim/gvim, emacs, kate, nedit, eric, ...
> 
> I need an IDE: Eclipse, NetBeans, Kdevelop, Anjuta, Qt Creator, ...
> 
> I need source management: CVS, Subversion, git.
> 
> I need an office package: Koffice, OpenOffice (MS Office file read/write),
> many XML editors and document editors.
> 
> I need Visio work: Kivio, Dia .
> 
> I need virtual machine capability: KVM, Xen, VirtualBox OSE, dosbox, ...
> 
> I need ... application which is only available under Windows: Install
> Windows in a VM. But first try Wine or Crossover Linux (costs money, but
> inexpensive) to run the Windows apps under Linux.
> 
> Gee, what does all this cost ABSOLUTE FREE FOR THE DOWNLOAD. You
> supply the PC.
> 
> --
> John McKown
> Systems Engineer IV
> IT
> 
> Administrative Services Group
u/archives/ibm-main.html

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[John P. Baker]

Could you enlighten us on the cost of the Dallas RDP offering?

John P. Baker

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Jim McAlpine
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

The zPDT offering has been available for some time now but it it
considerably more expensive than the Dallas RDP offering.

Jim McAlpine

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[Eric Bielefeld]

I'm curious about one thing about the article in the Register.  If you have a 
box for DR somewhere, I assume you don't have to pay extra for any software 
licenses for z/OS and any of its program products.  Is that true?  I wonder how 
that will play out.

--
Eric Bielefeld
Systems Programmer
IBM MVS Technical Services
Dubuque, Iowa
563-845-4363

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[Scott T. Harder]

Excuse the reply to my own post, but just wanted to make this addendum...

> I'd be running z/OS and actively doing development for the platform *right > 
> now* if I had that capability.

Or, if not actually working on a specific product of my own, I'd be able to 
test solutions (and/or behaviors) related to issues/problems raised on this 
list, and others like it that are z/OS oriented.  At least I'd be able to 
contribute in a meaningful, albeit small, way to the health and welfare of the 
platform in general.  Without a system to run, I'm completely reliant on 
memory; which is spotty at best. 

All the best,
Scott

Scott T. Harder
Mainframe Services, Inc.
Naples, FL

> -Original Message-
> From: Scott T. Harder [mailto:scott.har...@embarqmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:14 AM
> To: 'IBM Mainframe Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register
> 
> I really enjoyed reading this article, but in the end it left me flat
> again; with no hope of a viable solution to the problem.  I had no idea
> that this issue went back so far in history, which also added to my dismay
> about the whole thing.
> 
> I don't know about you all, but those FLEX-ES boxes were a ton of fun to
> work on (and the P/390... never worked on a Multiprise, but those looked
> fun too).  Why can't we have that again??As it is, it seems to me that 
> IBM does nothing but hurt
> themselves and the platform in general with their current stance (sorry
> for the quite obvious statement).
> 
> Also sorry that I can't afford Dallas on my own.  What am I to do but to
> learn C#?
> 
> Scott T. Harder
> Mainframe Services, Inc.
> Naples, FL
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
> > Behalf Of McKown, John
> > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:24 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> > Subject: IBM: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register
> >
> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/26/ibm_turbohercules_response/
> >
> > 
> >
> > Comment Let's start with the obvious: there was never a poor bald geek's
> > chance with a supermodel that IBM was ever going to willingly license
> its
> > z/OS and related systems software so it could run on the commercialized
> > version of the open source Hercules mainframe hardware emulator for x64
> > iron.
> >
,> > So the launch of the
> >
> TurboHercules<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/25/turbohercules_goes_c
> > ommercial/> commercial version of the mainframe hardware emulator in
> > September 2009 was always going to end up living or dying based on what
> > some court somewhere would say.
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> >
> > John McKown
> > Systems Engineer IV
> > IT
> >
> > Administrative Services Group
> >
> > HealthMarkets®
> >
> > 9151 Boulevard 26 • N. Richland Hills • TX 76010
> > (817) 255-3225 phone • (817)-961-6183 cell
> > john.mck...@healthmarkets.com • www.HealthMarkets.com
> >
> > Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or
> > proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the
> original
> > message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and
> > issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. –The
> > Chesapeake Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance
> > Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[McKown, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott T. Harder
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:14 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register
> 
> I really enjoyed reading this article, but in the end it left 
> me flat again; with no hope of a viable solution to the 
> problem.  I had no idea that this issue went back so far in 
> history, which also added to my dismay about the whole thing.  
> 
> I don't know about you all, but those FLEX-ES boxes were a 
> ton of fun to work on (and the P/390... never worked on a 
> Multiprise, but those looked fun too).  Why can't we have 
> that again??  I'd be running z/OS and actively doing 
> development for the platform *right now* if I had that 
> capability.  As it is, it seems to me that IBM does nothing 
> but hurt themselves and the platform in general with their 
> current stance (sorry for the quite obvious statement).
> 
> Also sorry that I can't afford Dallas on my own.  What am I 
> to do but to learn C#?
> 
> Scott T. Harder

C#?? Yuck! Install Linux/Intel. Learn lots of languages: C/C++, Objective-C, 
Perl, Python, PHP, Ruby, Erlang, Java, Clojure, Scala, Groovy, C# (Mono's 
csharp), Io, Lua, Bash (shell scripting), Lisp (many variants), Haskell (2 
different versions), Curry, Gambas (BASIC), Ada, Forth, Scheme (LISP-like), 
OOREXX, Regina (REXX), R (statistics), Slang, TCL/Tk, even more.

I need an SQL database: SQLite, MySQL, PostgreSQL, Derby

I need an editor: vi/vim/gvim, emacs, kate, nedit, eric, ...

I need an IDE: Eclipse, NetBeans, Kdevelop, Anjuta, Qt Creator, ...

I need source management: CVS, Subversion, git.

I need an office package: Koffice, OpenOffice (MS Office file read/write), many 
XML editors and document editors.

I need Visio work: Kivio, Dia .

I need virtual machine capability: KVM, Xen, VirtualBox OSE, dosbox, ...

I need ... application which is only available under Windows: Install Windows 
in a VM. But first try Wine or Crossover Linux (costs money, but inexpensive) 
to run the Windows apps under Linux.

Gee, what does all this cost ABSOLUTE FREE FOR THE DOWNLOAD. You supply the 
PC. 

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 • N. Richland Hills • TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone • (817)-961-6183 cell
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com • www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. –The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA 
Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

 

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[Jim McAlpine]

On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 2:39 PM, Scott T. Harder <
scott.har...@embarqmail.com> wrote:

> Scott T. Harder
> Mainframe Services, Inc.
> Naples, FL
> 
>
>
> > The Dallas system is less expensive than a P390 (or Flex-ES) was.
>
> Yeah... That's the other thing (or, another in a long line of things) that
> doesn't make sense to me about this.  They (IBM) seem to be throwing the
> baby out with the bath water with regards to the awesome deal they give on
> the Dallas thing.  It *must* be costing them a ton of money, no?  I just
> incorporated myself recently and so my stated experience with FLEX and the
> P390 was with a company that I worked for before that *could* afford them.
>
> > The zPDT is the logical successor to the P390, but frankly it too will be
> > more expensive than using the Dallas system.
>
> Right.  Is this to become GA in the US?  32- and 64-bit versions?
>
> 
>
> All the best,
>
> Scott T. Harder
> Mainframe Services, Inc.
> Naples, FL
>
>
>

The zPDT offering has been available for some time now but it it
considerably more expensive than the Dallas RDP offering.

Jim McAlpine

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[Scott T. Harder]

Scott T. Harder
Mainframe Services, Inc.
Naples, FL
 


> The Dallas system is less expensive than a P390 (or Flex-ES) was. 

Yeah... That's the other thing (or, another in a long line of things) that 
doesn't make sense to me about this.  They (IBM) seem to be throwing the baby 
out with the bath water with regards to the awesome deal they give on the 
Dallas thing.  It *must* be costing them a ton of money, no?  I just 
incorporated myself recently and so my stated experience with FLEX and the P390 
was with a company that I worked for before that *could* afford them.

> The zPDT is the logical successor to the P390, but frankly it too will be > 
> more expensive than using the Dallas system.

Right.  Is this to become GA in the US?  32- and 64-bit versions?



All the best,

Scott T. Harder
Mainframe Services, Inc.
Naples, FL

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[John P. Baker]

IBM's introduction of the zPDT would seem to be a cost-effective and viable 
alternative for the small developer.

John P. Baker

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Scott T. Harder
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 10:14 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

I really enjoyed reading this article, but in the end it left me flat again; 
with no hope of a viable solution to the problem.  I had no idea that this 
issue went back so far in history, which also added to my dismay about the 
whole thing.  

I don't know about you all, but those FLEX-ES boxes were a ton of fun to work 
on (and the P/390... never worked on a Multiprise, but those looked fun too).  
Why can't we have that again??  I'd be running z/OS and actively doing 
development for the platform *right now* if I had that capability.  As it is, 
it seems to me that IBM does nothing but hurt themselves and the platform in 
general with their current stance (sorry for the quite obvious statement).

Also sorry that I can't afford Dallas on my own.  What am I to do but to learn 
C#?

Scott T. Harder
Mainframe Services, Inc.
Naples, FL

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[Bob Shannon]

>I really enjoyed reading this article, but in the end it left me flat again; 
>with no hope of a viable solution to the problem.  I had no >idea that this 
>issue went back so far in history, which also added to my dismay about the 
>whole thing.  

>I don't know about you all, but those FLEX-ES boxes were a ton of fun to work 
>on (and the P/390... never worked on a Multiprise, but those >looked fun too). 
> Why can't we have that again??  I'd be running z/OS and actively doing 
>development for the platform *right now* if I had >that capability.  As it is, 
>it seems to me that IBM does nothing but hurt themselves and the platform in 
>general with their current stance >(sorry for the quite obvious statement).

>Also sorry that I can't afford Dallas on my own.  What am I to do but to learn 
>C#?

The Dallas system is less expensive than a P390 (or Flex-ES) was. The zPDT is 
the logical successor to the P390, but frankly it too will be more expensive 
than using the Dallas system. If you can't afford the Dallas system then I 
really doubt you could have afforded any of the inexpensive solutions that IBM 
provided.

Bob Shannon
Rocket Software

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Re: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[Scott T. Harder]

I really enjoyed reading this article, but in the end it left me flat again; 
with no hope of a viable solution to the problem.  I had no idea that this 
issue went back so far in history, which also added to my dismay about the 
whole thing.  

I don't know about you all, but those FLEX-ES boxes were a ton of fun to work 
on (and the P/390... never worked on a Multiprise, but those looked fun too).  
Why can't we have that again??  I'd be running z/OS and actively doing 
development for the platform *right now* if I had that capability.  As it is, 
it seems to me that IBM does nothing but hurt themselves and the platform in 
general with their current stance (sorry for the quite obvious statement).

Also sorry that I can't afford Dallas on my own.  What am I to do but to learn 
C#?

Scott T. Harder
Mainframe Services, Inc.
Naples, FL

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
> Behalf Of McKown, John
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 9:24 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: IBM: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/26/ibm_turbohercules_response/
> 
> 
> 
> Comment Let's start with the obvious: there was never a poor bald geek's
> chance with a supermodel that IBM was ever going to willingly license its
> z/OS and related systems software so it could run on the commercialized
> version of the open source Hercules mainframe hardware emulator for x64
> iron.
> 
> So the launch of the
> TurboHercules<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/25/turbohercules_goes_c
> ommercial/> commercial version of the mainframe hardware emulator in
> September 2009 was always going to end up living or dying based on what
> some court somewhere would say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John McKown
> Systems Engineer IV
> IT
> 
> Administrative Services Group
> 
> HealthMarkets®
> 
> 9151 Boulevard 26 • N. Richland Hills • TX 76010
> (817) 255-3225 phone • (817)-961-6183 cell
> john.mck...@healthmarkets.com • www.HealthMarkets.com
> 
> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or
> proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original
> message. HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and
> issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. –The
> Chesapeake Life Insurance Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance
> Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

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IBM: Mainframe emulator part of a conspira cy • The Register

[McKown, John]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/26/ibm_turbohercules_response/



Comment Let's start with the obvious: there was never a poor bald geek's chance 
with a supermodel that IBM was ever going to willingly license its z/OS and 
related systems software so it could run on the commercialized version of the 
open source Hercules mainframe hardware emulator for x64 iron.

So the launch of the 
TurboHercules
 commercial version of the mainframe hardware emulator in September 2009 was 
always going to end up living or dying based on what some court somewhere would 
say.





John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets®

9151 Boulevard 26 • N. Richland Hills • TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone • (817)-961-6183 cell
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com • www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
HealthMarkets® is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. –The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company®, Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA 
Life and Health Insurance Company.SM