Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
Listers - Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good distance between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which could be used as a DR site. Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this topic? And what is your feelings on this issue. Is 4 miles between two data centers too close? is 100 miles between two data centers to far? Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this? I have been trying to determine this in a generic way. Not based on what we have for connectivity. But what would be a good business case to show upper management that if we had XX miles between our data centers, then a regional issue would not take out our business. But if we were only 4 miles apart, we would be in a world of hurt. Thanks for your input Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good distance between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which could be used as a DR site. In the good old days, at least 50 megatons away. -- Will -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:52:23 -0400 Lizette Koehler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: :Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good distance between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which could be used as a DR site. :Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this topic? And what is your feelings on this issue. :Is 4 miles between two data centers too close? is 100 miles between two data centers to far? :Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this? The objective is to protect against a disaster, thus the DR site should be far enough away so that it will not be affected by the same disaster (like making sure that your backup power is carried over different lines and your backup network connection is in a different cable, etc.) It also depends on which disasters your company can recover from, and what the recovery would be. For example, if your single factory was destroyed, what would be the plan? Rebuild, or take the insurance and run? (objoke - How do you make a hurricane?) -- Binyamin Dissen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
I doubt there is a single answer, it all depends on where your data center is located. Look at power grid, telecom, flood plain, tornado/hurricane paths, fault lines, transportation, etc. Your idea of staying far enough away to ensure relative safety from a regional issue sounds about right. Building your own DR datacenter might have different requirements than a contracted DR site (e.g. if I use Sungard I can theoretically recover at any of their sites so having the primary site close by might not be that big of an issue). -Original Message- Lizette Koehler Listers - Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good distance between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which could be used as a DR site. Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this topic? And what is your feelings on this issue. Is 4 miles between two data centers too close? is 100 miles between two data centers to far? Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this? I have been trying to determine this in a generic way. Not based on what we have for connectivity. But what would be a good business case to show upper management that if we had XX miles between our data centers, then a regional issue would not take out our business. But if we were only 4 miles apart, we would be in a world of hurt. Thanks for your input Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
Lizette Koehler Gesendet: Donnerstag, 2. August 2007 16:52 Listers - Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good distance between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which could be used as a DR site. Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this topic? And what is your feelings on this issue. Is 4 miles between two data centers too close? is 100 miles between two data centers to far? Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this? I have been trying to determine this in a generic way. Not based on what we have for connectivity. But what would be a good business case to show upper management that if we had XX miles between our data centers, then a regional issue would not take out our business. But if we were only 4 miles apart, we would be in a world of hurt. Thanks for your input Lizette Can't help with numbers here but was reminded of a colleague who once said that it's not only the horizontal distance that should be considered but also the vertical one. (Think of massive floodings as an example.) -- Robert -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C] Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:02 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR IBM answer #3 - It depends It depends on the risks in your operating environment. If you're in Oklahoma and the primary threat to life and limb stems from tornadoes then 10 miles might be enough. snip _ Puzzles, trivia teasers, word scrambles and more. Play for your chance to win! http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=CLUB_hotmailtextlink -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
Lizette, It depends! (Of course) What are the naturally occurring problems within the primary data centers location? Things like power grids, weather problems, transportation issues, telco coverage, etc. What are the business reasons for a PPRC setup over an XRC setup? What is the cost of downtime to the business? This one dictates the solution. There are many, many more questions, but you get the idea. I have had my 2nd site at 400 yards and at 500 miles. Bob Richards -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR Listers - Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good distance between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which could be used as a DR site. Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this topic? And what is your feelings on this issue. Is 4 miles between two data centers too close? is 100 miles between two data centers to far? Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this? I have been trying to determine this in a generic way. Not based on what we have for connectivity. But what would be a good business case to show upper management that if we had XX miles between our data centers, then a regional issue would not take out our business. But if we were only 4 miles apart, we would be in a world of hurt. Thanks for your input Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html LEGAL DISCLAIMER The information transmitted is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of or taking action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. SunTrust and Seeing beyond money are federally registered service marks of SunTrust Banks, Inc. [ST:XCL] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
IBM answer #3 - It depends It depends on the risks in your operating environment. If you're in Oklahoma and the primary threat to life and limb stems from tornadoes then 10 miles might be enough. If you're located on the coast of the Gulf of Mexico and the threat is hurricanes, then 10 miles doesn't get you out of the danger zone. Worried about terrorism? Depends on the attack but 10 miles probably is enough unless they get their hands on a nuke in which case you'll want to be considerably farther away. Risk analysis is the key to DR location. Just my 2 cents worth. Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good distance between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which could be used as a DR site. Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this topic? And what is your feelings on this issue. Is 4 miles between two data centers too close? is 100 miles between two data centers to far? Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this? I have been trying to determine this in a generic way. Not based on what we have for connectivity. But what would be a good business case to show upper management that if we had XX miles between our data centers, then a regional issue would not take out our business. But if we were only 4 miles apart, we would be in a world of hurt. Thanks for your input Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it feels right. They want hard facts. You need a BIA - Business Impact Analysis - to show how much it costs your business to be down. That then gets weighed against the cost of providing protection for certain disasters and that weighed against the possibility of any particular disaster happening in your area. Sounds simple, doesn't it. Its not. Its a HUGE undertaking that involves people who do this for a living and know how the risk analysis math works = actuaries.When I was getting into this and started talking to the risk managment folks we have I was amazed at how many aspects of it I had not thought of - I was concentrating on the IT recovery part of it, but there is a lot more that they have to consider. Start here - http://www.drj.com/ to find consultants that could help. Jeffrey Deaver, Engineer Systems Engineering [EMAIL PROTECTED] 651-665-4231(v) 651-610-7670(p) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
Have there been any 'disasters' or near disasters in the area (go back 10-20-30 years). If there was a (pick disaster of your choice) how close did it come to affecting you AND the area 4 miles away and did it affect an area 10-20-50 miles away. -Original Message- Lizette Koehler As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other... Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question? My issue with this problem is the it depends clause. I know that there are hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations. However, if I am trying to pursuade management that our current configuration of 4 miles is badness. How or what can I use to show that a larger distance is better. That is why I was looking for papers or some other documentation. A regional outage, be it hurricans, flooding, earthquakes, tornados, or structure collapses are all part of my equation to start with. Management is not concerned about those. Just the why go farther? question. But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it feels right. They want hard facts. Any other concepts. (And I do appreciate all the thoughts so far. But I need something a little more concrete.) Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR SNIP I have been trying to determine this in a generic way. Not based on what we have for connectivity. But what would be a good business case to show upper management that if we had XX miles between our data centers, then a regional issue would not take out our business. But if we were only 4 miles apart, we would be in a world of hurt. SNIP 1) Where do you need to be to have a different electric power provider (different grid attachment)? 2) Where do you need to be to have a different Gas provider? 3) Where do you need to be to have a different water supply? 4) Where do you need to be to not be affected by a transportation crash? (truck, air, train) 5) Where do you need to be to have different supplier warehouse basis? 6) Where do you need to be to have different communications trunks? 7) How do you get sufficient temporary housing for your critical people? (Hotels may not cut it) 8) Do you need a hot, warm or cold facility? And as other posters have said, much of this kind of thing depends on what level of disaster you can or want to recover from. Regards, Steve Thompson This e-mail message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply e-mail immediately. Use, disclosure or reproduction of any information in this e-mail by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. Sterling Commerce is not liable for any loss or damage arising in any way from transmission of the message or use of its attachments. This email may contain links to third party web sites. Sterling Commerce is not responsible for the content or privacy policies of such other sites and the existence of a link in this email does not imply an endorsement of the linked web site or the goods or services offered therein. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other... Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question? My issue with this problem is the it depends clause. I know that there are hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations. However, if I am trying to pursuade management that our current configuration of 4 miles is badness. How or what can I use to show that a larger distance is better. That is why I was looking for papers or some other documentation. A regional outage, be it hurricans, flooding, earthquakes, tornados, or structure collapses are all part of my equation to start with. Management is not concerned about those. Just the why go farther? question. But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it feels right. They want hard facts. Any other concepts. (And I do appreciate all the thoughts so far. But I need something a little more concrete.) Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
On 2 Aug 2007 07:52:37 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote: Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good distance between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which could be used as a DR site. Consider what disasters might befall that might require activating the backup. Blizzards, hurricanes, and power outages can cover large areas.Use Katrina as an example. Your backup system can be in an economically remote site as well, saving considerable money. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
-snip- Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good distance between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which could be used as a DR site. remainder snipped--- Short answer: it depends on what kind of disasters you're concerned about. We had our DR site 60 km from the primary site. That put us on different major power grid, different telephone grid and reasonably well away from the area of contamination from chemical/biological/nuclear threats. XRC connections over T3 kept sites fairly well synchronized. Primary site in downtown Chicago; DR sight at far edge of adjacent county. Both sites highly secured physically, especially since 9/11. Unfortunately, senior management chose to relax electronic security somewhat, against my better judgement as security administrator. Your mileage may vary. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
I don't have any real answers, just some comments. One bank I worked for had as their disaster recovery a 370/158 computer left in the basement of the bank after the datacenter moved 4 blocks away. No I/O equipment. My last full time job, we paid for a hot site. We never did a disaster recovery test until 2004 (I think). Had a disaster struck our datacenter before then, it would have been interesting. After that, they never did another because the z/OS datacenter was closing. I think a lot of the potential disasters are things that are totally unexpected. The problem several years ago in downtown Chicago comes to mind, when many of the buildings were shut down because of a hole between some unused underground passageways and the Chicago River. The possibility of a widespread nuclear war presents the possibility of almost all business and commerce shutting down. Even if your data was in the side of a mountain and safe, if all the banks are destroyed, and all of the refineries are destroyed, you won't get fuel for your generators and you won't have money to do anything. Hopefully that will never happen, but how do you prepare for it? Eric Bielefeld Sr. z/OS Systems Programmer Milwaukee, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 11:33:24 -0400, Lizette Koehler wrote: As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other... Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question? My issue with this problem is the it depends clause. I know that there are hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations. Back in the days following September 11, 2001 there were recommendations and edicts floating around that 350 miles is a good number. Within the financial markets industry, there was even talk that this would become part of SEC rules and enforced. I don't believe that ever happened. Although I can't find the SEC draft papers on this anymore, I'm sure there is doc available. I have these book marks: http://labmice.techtarget.com/disaster.htm http://www.continuitycentral.com/ http://www.disaster-resource.com/ And there is also a certification group for Disaster Recovery Planners that should have lots of recommendations. I can't find their website link at the moment. Google BCP DR and you'll get a ton of hits. You might even be able to find something relevant to your industry. We are about 1800 miles from our hot site, so we are fairly confident that a regional disaster won't affect both sites. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
Is it possible to find the probability of various disaster scenarios occurring in your area? If you could find the probability of a hurricane or tornado or flooding occurring at your primary site then you would be better able to determine how far away your DR site would need to be. Maybe some internet searches would give you some of those probabilities. However, 4 miles away is a little to close for anything except maybe your main building catching fire. Tom Kelman Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other... Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question? My issue with this problem is the it depends clause. I know that there are hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations. However, if I am trying to pursuade management that our current configuration of 4 miles is badness. How or what can I use to show that a larger distance is better. That is why I was looking for papers or some other documentation. A regional outage, be it hurricans, flooding, earthquakes, tornados, or structure collapses are all part of my equation to start with. Management is not concerned about those. Just the why go farther? question. But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it feels right. They want hard facts. Any other concepts. (And I do appreciate all the thoughts so far. But I need something a little more concrete.) Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
-snip Back in the days following September 11, 2001 there were recommendations and edicts floating around that 350 miles is a good number. Within the financial markets industry, there was even talk that this would become part of SEC rules and enforced. I don't believe that ever happened. Although I can't find the SEC draft papers on this anymore, I'm sure there is doc available. I have these book marks: http://labmice.techtarget.com/disaster.htm http://www.continuitycentral.com/ http://www.disaster-resource.com/ --unsnip--- It never happened. But my company, Board of Trade Clearing Corp., got high marks for doing regular testing (quarterly). Something to keep in mind! snip And there is also a certification group for Disaster Recovery Planners that should have lots of recommendations. I can't find their website link at the moment. Google BCP DR and you'll get a ton of hits. You might even be able to find something relevant to your industry. We are about 1800 miles from our hot site, so we are fairly confident that a regional disaster won't affect both sites. ---unsnip--- Hard to get that distance in Germany! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
Our DR site is about 20 miles from our Data Center. Lizette Koehler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Listers - Poll question of the day: How one goes about determining a good distance between 2 data centers. One which is primary and one which could be used as a DR site. Is there any papers, manuals, redbooks that give a good ROT for this topic? And what is your feelings on this issue. Is 4 miles between two data centers too close? is 100 miles between two data centers to far? Any thoughts or a pundit's 2cents worth on this? I have been trying to determine this in a generic way. Not based on what we have for connectivity. But what would be a good business case to show upper management that if we had XX miles between our data centers, then a regional issue would not take out our business. But if we were only 4 miles apart, we would be in a world of hurt. Thanks for your input Lizette -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! TV's Comedy with an Edge to see what's on, when. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
Sorry, just a little Oklahoma humor - except I got it bollixed.. Should have said NW/SE since tornadoes generally travel north east.. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 11:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other... Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question? snip _ Now you can see troubleĀ before he arrives http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
You don't create a DR recovery for the heck of it. You do so because you analyze the risks of various things happening. If the sun goes nova, then you need several light years separation - but the value of such doesn't help your company. So what you need to start with is a list of risks with their likelihoods. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
On Aug 2, 2007, at 11:32 AM, Eric Bielefeld wrote: I don't have any real answers, just some comments. One bank I worked for had as their disaster recovery a 370/158 computer left in the basement of the bank after the datacenter moved 4 blocks away. No I/O equipment. My last full time job, we paid for a hot site. We never did a disaster recovery test until 2004 (I think). Had a disaster struck our datacenter before then, it would have been interesting. After that, they never did another because the z/OS datacenter was closing. Eric: Got you beat on this one. One place I worked for had their DR site at a electrical switching station. Needless to say it was a standing joke, Air conditioning we don't need no stinking AC. Power conditioning? we don't need no stinking conditioning. Will the machine even power up hay it worked when it left the building. Its a machine that used to work but will it IPL why not, the OS doesn't make a difference. On and on... Ed -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
I agree that a risk/cost/impact on business analysis is critical. For example some years ago I worked for a utility in downtown Chicago, that at time had the datacenter in the headquarters, and had a DR cold site at one of the companies outlying facilities (also in Chicago, but well out of downtown). Once at a class, people pointed out that the centers were far too close together to be of use, if say the disaster wiped out the city, to which I pointed out that, since the company only had customers in the Chicago area, it might not matter. Then came April 1992, and the headquarters building lost power for 5 days due to the tunnel flooding, and we were able to go to the cold site and get the critical systems up and running, with network connectivity, in a fairly short time. For most aspects, the two centers were far too close together, put in this case, they were just far enough. Wayne Driscoll Product Developer JME Software LLC NOTE: All opinions are strictly my own. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Howard Brazee Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:18 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR You don't create a DR recovery for the heck of it. You do so because you analyze the risks of various things happening. If the sun goes nova, then you need several light years separation - but the value of such doesn't help your company. So what you need to start with is a list of risks with their likelihoods. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
Such choices are purely business. Let's flip the coin. Why, exactly, is 4 miles too close? I can think of some scenarios where being so close offers some business/technical advantages. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 10:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other... Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question? My issue with this problem is the it depends clause. I know that there are hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations. However, if I am trying to pursuade management that our current configuration of 4 miles is badness. How or what can I use to show that a larger distance is better. That is why I was looking for papers or some other documentation. A regional outage, be it hurricans, flooding, earthquakes, tornados, or structure collapses are all part of my equation to start with. Management is not concerned about those. Just the why go farther? question. But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it feels right. They want hard facts. Any other concepts. (And I do appreciate all the thoughts so far. But I need something a little more concrete.) Lizette NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
4 miles is essentially around the corner. I am curious as to the hard facts you are looking for? It is a business decision. And the new center will be subject to potential disasters as well. It is best to be geographically diverse. The second center I think should be in another part of the country. It was stated to put it in a rural, depressed area. That is fine, as long as there is sufficient infrastructure. Where does the power come from? Wholesaler and last mile. Comm facilities. Vendor coverage for computing gear and HVAC and UPS gear. It is not a quick, hey whaddya think question. It is alot of work. But by ANY measure, 4 miles is insane. Doug snip -Original Message- Lizette Koehler As long as each is 10 miles NE/SW from each other... Now, did I include Vector Analysis in this question? My issue with this problem is the it depends clause. I know that there are hardware, telecom, power, etc... considerations. However, if I am trying to pursuade management that our current configuration of 4 miles is badness. How or what can I use to show that a larger distance is better. That is why I was looking for papers or some other documentation. A regional outage, be it hurricans, flooding, earthquakes, tornados, or structure collapses are all part of my equation to start with. Management is not concerned about those. Just the why go farther? question. But I cannot convince management to go 10, 20, 50 miles, just because it feels right. They want hard facts. Any other concepts. (And I do appreciate all the thoughts so far. But I need something a little more concrete.) Lsnip Doug Fuerst Consultant BK Associates Brooklyn, NY (718) 921-2620 (Office) (718) 921-0952 (Fax) (917) 572-7364 (Cell) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Poll - Distance between Data Center and DR
Hello Lizette, We were quite happy with 2 datacenters about 50 Km apart. But then 911 happened. and SOX. etc... so now the DR center has to be in a different country, about 3 hours flying time away. Something about sovereign risk. This new direction has caused many rethinks in how our DR is done. Regards Bruce Hewson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
