Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
Lack of funding is certainly slowing the ERP project here. Dave Gibney Information Technology Services Washington State University > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of Edward Jaffe > Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 11:16 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing > > Howard Brazee wrote: > > But I disagree that the poor economy is to blame for this > > "down-sizing", and I expect that when the economy gets better, the > > process will accelerate. > > > > The poor economy has breathed new life into legacy core systems. > Systems > that were scheduled for replacement are now being upgraded and > outfitted > with SOA interfaces instead... > > http://banktech.com/core- > systems/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=ABUQ45GGKTR3IQSNDLRSKH0CJUNN2JVN?a > rticleID=216402980&_requestid=544552 > > -- > Edward E Jaffe > Phoenix Software International, Inc > 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 > Los Angeles, CA 90045 > 310-338-0400 x318 > edja...@phoenixsoftware.com > http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
-- I don't think so - as much as management would like to get rid of the mainframe, they know that change is expensive.The budget to replace everything is huge in the short term, and the short term is very important to them. I think you need to re-think that. Ask Eric Bielefield (if I mis-spelled that, Eric, I appologise), me, and a few others that have been down-sized due to M/F re-engineering (euphemism) projects. Regardless of the 'high' cost, it does happen. Remember, politics can/does trump budgeting! GOT THAT RIGHT! Rick -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
Howard Brazee wrote: But I disagree that the poor economy is to blame for this "down-sizing", and I expect that when the economy gets better, the process will accelerate. The poor economy has breathed new life into legacy core systems. Systems that were scheduled for replacement are now being upgraded and outfitted with SOA interfaces instead... http://banktech.com/core-systems/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=ABUQ45GGKTR3IQSNDLRSKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=216402980&_requestid=544552 -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
I saw this whole downsizing thing with a large big 8 accting f Guys, I saw this whole downsizing thing with a large big 8 accting firm who consults ( i will not mention the name), tried to move z/OS applications over to Unix and when it failed after millions of dollar expendedthey just threw their hands up and we moved it back to z/OS. Scott J Ford From: Howard Brazee To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 1:04:51 PM Subject: Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing On 5 Oct 2009 09:49:08 -0700, eamacn...@yahoo.ca (Ted MacNEIL) wrote: >>I don't think so - as much as management would like to get rid of the >>mainframe, they know that change is expensive. The budget to replace >>everything is huge in the short term, and the short term is very important to >>them. > >I think you need to re-think that. >Ask Eric Bielefield (if I mis-spelled that, Eric, I appologise), me, and a few >others that have been down-sized due to M/F re-engineering (euphemism) >projects. > >Regardless of the 'high' cost, it does happen. >Remember, politics can/does trump budgeting! It does. Always. But I disagree that the poor economy is to blame for this "down-sizing", and I expect that when the economy gets better, the process will accelerate. Note that I have "down-sizing" in quotes. The new downsized IS that I've seen are bigger than what they replaced. They are more spread out though, with different budgets, and a lot more people in security and infrastructure. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
>But I disagree that the poor economy is to blame for this "down-sizing", and I >expect that when the economy gets better, the process will accelerate. The economy is a red herring! I've been involved in down-sizing exercises since the early 1990's. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
>The name wasn't too far off - see below. Would you believe ... Missed it by that much! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
On 5 Oct 2009 09:49:08 -0700, eamacn...@yahoo.ca (Ted MacNEIL) wrote: >>I don't think so - as much as management would like to get rid of the >>mainframe, they know that change is expensive.The budget to replace >>everything is huge in the short term, and the short term is very important to >>them. > >I think you need to re-think that. >Ask Eric Bielefield (if I mis-spelled that, Eric, I appologise), me, and a few >others that have been down-sized due to M/F re-engineering (euphemism) >projects. > >Regardless of the 'high' cost, it does happen. >Remember, politics can/does trump budgeting! It does.Always. But I disagree that the poor economy is to blame for this "down-sizing", and I expect that when the economy gets better, the process will accelerate. Note that I have "down-sizing" in quotes. The new downsized IS that I've seen are bigger than what they replaced.They are more spread out though, with different budgets, and a lot more people in security and infrastructure. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
The name wasn't too far off - see below. I actually think P&H Mining save money after a couple of years when they got off the mainframe. The biggest factor involved in that was the existense of a running platform that was already running their sister company in another state. The project was supposed to take 18 months, and finally got done in 21 months. Also, a huge factor was the SAP system. For a long time SAP said if you merged your datacenters, you would have to pay all new licenses. Then, at some point, they said if you merger the 2 companies data, all on the same machine, we won't charge you for another SAP license. I don't know much more than that, but I know that played a big factor in getting rid of the mainframe. A unique set of circumstances, as I'm sure every company's decision to stay on the mainframe or get off of it. Eric Bielefeld Sr. Systems Programmer Milwaukee, Wisconsin 414-475-7434 - Original Message - From: "Ted MacNEIL" >I don't think so - as much as management would like to get rid of the >mainframe, they know that change is expensive.The budget to replace >everything is huge in the short term, and the short term is very >important to them. I think you need to re-think that. Ask Eric Bielefield (if I mis-spelled that, Eric, I appologise), me, and a few others that have been down-sized due to M/F re-engineering (euphemism) projects. Regardless of the 'high' cost, it does happen. Remember, politics can/does trump budgeting! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
On 5 Oct 2009 09:22:03 -0700, nduf...@uottawa.ca (Neil Duffee) wrote: >These days, with our burgeoning squatty box farm, I like to challenge >tour folx (being shown the 'squatty boxen') to determine which >machine is the mainframe since we take the least amount of space in >the room. (ok, the 3494 ATL doesn't help since it's larger than the >both Dasd & Cpu boxes combined.) The only clue most pick up on is >the shiny Green or Blue stripe up the door. We've had Unix boxes a long time that were bigger than the mainframe. Fortunately it doesn't matter if we lose the mainframe in the computer room - it's the other stuff that need maintenance. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
>I don't think so - as much as management would like to get rid of the >mainframe, they know that change is expensive.The budget to replace >everything is huge in the short term, and the short term is very important to >them. I think you need to re-think that. Ask Eric Bielefield (if I mis-spelled that, Eric, I appologise), me, and a few others that have been down-sized due to M/F re-engineering (euphemism) projects. Regardless of the 'high' cost, it does happen. Remember, politics can/does trump budgeting! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
On 2009.10.05 09:45, concerning "500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing", Warner Mach wrote to IBM-Main : > [snip] the Maximus Leader would bring tours through the computer room. > [snip] maintain and support the "big number cruncher" [snip] something > that big and that important. These days, with our burgeoning squatty box farm, I like to challenge tour folx (being shown the 'squatty boxen') to determine which machine is the mainframe since we take the least amount of space in the room. (ok, the 3494 ATL doesn't help since it's larger than the both Dasd & Cpu boxes combined.) The only clue most pick up on is the shiny Green or Blue stripe up the door. --> signature = 6 lines follows <-- Neil Duffee, Joe SysProg, U d'Ottawa, Ottawa, Ont, Canada telephone:1 613 562 5800 x4585 fax:1 613 562 5161 mailto:NDuffee of uOttawa.ca http:/ /aix1.uottawa.ca/ ~nduffee "How *do* you plan for something like that?" Guardian Bob, Reboot "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism." "Systems Programming: Guilty, until proven innocent" John Norgauer 2004 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
Have seen this too..Best one ever...was working with a collegu Guys, Have seen this too..Best one ever...was working with a collegue..with a large client doing a SNA/VTAM type conversion. He quoted her a rate for a RFP and she said thats a lot of money to convert 11 lpars.He told her this is a type of job that you dont hire rookies for, the ppl are experienced , had accomplished this many times before and besides...you pay the Microsoft ppl $175 / hr to go in and press the power/off power/on button of a server when it stops working...Unfortuately, I think some of the management ppl listen to much to ppl who really dont know what is going on in the MF world . Scott J Ford From: Howard Brazee To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 10:22:41 AM Subject: Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing On 5 Oct 2009 06:45:17 -0700, ma...@resa.net (Warner Mach) wrote: >It occurs to me that there is one aspect of the downsize mentality >that has not been discussed, and that is the "500 >pound gorilla" aspect ... When there is an economic crunch >and management looks around for where to cut they can >not help but notice the 500 pound gorilla in the room. >So, notwithstanding the technical aspects and the >financial aspects; notwithstanding "return on investment" >and "total cost of ownership," there is that gorilla. I don't think so - as much as management would like to get rid of the mainframe, they know that change is expensive. The budget to replace everything is huge in the short term, and the short term is very important to them. When good times return, is when they are more likely to be fooled into spending lots in the short term expecting to save money in the long term (when it's someone else's problem when it doesn't work). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: 500 Pound Gorilla & Downsizing
On 5 Oct 2009 06:45:17 -0700, ma...@resa.net (Warner Mach) wrote: >It occurs to me that there is one aspect of the downsize mentality >that has not been discussed, and that is the "500 >pound gorilla" aspect ... When there is an economic crunch >and management looks around for where to cut they can >not help but notice the 500 pound gorilla in the room. >So, notwithstanding the technical aspects and the >financial aspects; notwithstanding "return on investment" >and "total cost of ownership," there is that gorilla. I don't think so - as much as management would like to get rid of the mainframe, they know that change is expensive.The budget to replace everything is huge in the short term, and the short term is very important to them. When good times return, is when they are more likely to be fooled into spending lots in the short term expecting to save money in the long term (when it's someone else's problem when it doesn't work). -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
