Re: Damping Fields
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 9:59 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SHARE bound air traveler's TSA change liquids prohibited in snip Personally, I would like to see dampening fields used on airplanes (and in restaurants, movie theaters, etc.) that would render cell-phones and other similar transmitter/receivers completely inoperative. (That way, you could carry your personal electronics anywhere and still be able to enjoy dinner in a restaurant without having to listen to the person at the table next to you fighting with their boy/girlfriend over the phone.) The technology to do this exists. The challenge on an airplane is to implement it in a way that won't interfere with the aircraft's navigation and communications systems. snip I can't tell you the number of times that either my co-pilot (wife) or I have left our cell-phones active (live / on) while flying. They did not interfere with the Comm frequencies or the GPS navigational system nor the ground based nav systems (VOR/VORTAC, DME, Localizer, or ILS), or the transponder. Now the big iron pilots have Comm radios that operate on a higher freq set than our plane operates on (108-134? MHz compared to 4xx(?)MHz). As long as the dampening fields do not use 10MHz (First IF freq) or 400-48KHz (Second IF freqs), I don't see the problem. However, that would be the way to damp out those little buggers completely -- given what I remember of electronics theories. Later, Steve Thompson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Damping Fields
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Thompson, Steve (SCI TW) I can't tell you the number of times that either my co-pilot (wife) or I have left our cell-phones active (live / on) while flying. They did not interfere with the Comm frequencies or the GPS navigational system nor the ground based nav systems (VOR/VORTAC, DME, Localizer, or ILS), or the transponder. You're not superstitious enough. Now the big iron pilots have Comm radios that operate on a higher freq set than our plane operates on (108-134? MHz compared to 4xx(?)MHz). Actually, commercial airliners use the same VHF nav/comm band as general aviation for air traffic control and navigation purposes. The military uses the UHF nav/comm band. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Damping Fields
Isn't the 'turn your cell-phones off' while flying an FCC thing and not an FAA thing? [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/11/06 1:10 PM -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Thompson, Steve (SCI TW) I can't tell you the number of times that either my co-pilot (wife) or I have left our cell-phones active (live / on) while flying. They did not interfere with the Comm frequencies or the GPS navigational system nor the ground based nav systems (VOR/VORTAC, DME, Localizer, or ILS), or the transponder. You're not superstitious enough. Now the big iron pilots have Comm radios that operate on a higher freq set than our plane operates on (108-134? MHz compared to 4xx(?)MHz). Actually, commercial airliners use the same VHF nav/comm band as general aviation for air traffic control and navigation purposes. The military uses the UHF nav/comm band. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Damping Fields
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Rick Combest Isn't the 'turn your cell-phones off' while flying an FCC thing and not an FAA thing? I think not, because operating an airplane is beyond FCC's jurisdiction. I don't fly often enough to remember whether their on-board announcements cite FAA regulation or some other authority. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Damping Fields
I always thought it was a we want you to pay to use our phones thing. -Original Message- From: Rick Combest [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 10:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Damping Fields Isn't the 'turn your cell-phones off' while flying an FCC thing and not an FAA thing? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Damping Fields
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:10 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Damping Fields snip Actually, commercial airliners use the same VHF nav/comm band as general aviation for air traffic control and navigation purposes. The military uses the UHF nav/comm band. snip I've often wondered about that. I have sometimes heard Cleveland (CLE) approach, and Akron-Canton approach (CAK) talking to some airliner (United, American, etc.) but never heard them talking back (same kind of thing with Pittsburgh, Columbus, Indy, etc.). Now I know that some controllers are ganged to handle two or more radios (I've even been at CAK and Springfield MO after 10PM and the approach, tower and ground were all the same person - you talk about a bored controller). But I never heard the Big Iron pilots talking and I was supposed to be following them (visual approach) -- You should try this when vis is 2 mi and they are doing 160+Knots and you are firewalled doing 120Knots and you're #2 for the ILS ;-) Now, at Youngtown OH and Mansfield OH (both are C130 bases or were until very recently), I heard those guys all the time on the regular low freqs for approach, tower and ground. However, I can tell you that 151MHz does really UGLY things to the HP3000s! Hagerstown MD's HP3000 for the city was 3-4 stories above the police garage exit. The patrol car drivers had a regular policy to double tap the xmit button on their radios as they came out of the garage Well, HP was out for the umpteenth time trying to figure out why this HP3000 had locked up again. So they had effectively done a POR to get it running. So their FE walked over to the window (which was covered with metal mesh and the glass had metal mesh in it) because he was tired of staring at a scope trying to figure out what was wrong with this happy little computer system. About that time a police car drove out of the garage and the HP3000 locked up... Big Bright LIGHT goes on here The rules were if you keyed your mike before you got to the street, your paycheck would be the one that was done entirely by hand... And the lock-ups ceased. Later, Steve Thompson -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Damping Fields
Actually, it's in the FAA regs. I don't know about the FCC regs (I stopped reading them when the CB abortion took place). Later, Steve Thompson -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Combest Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Damping Fields Isn't the 'turn your cell-phones off' while flying an FCC thing and not an FAA thing? snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Damping Fields
Seems rather ridiculous that all carry on bags are checked for bombs, knives, toothpaste, shampoo,etc for fear of some kind of threat. Yet, it is left up to passengers to turn off their own phones ... If there were interference problems, navigational or otherwise, wouldn't all passengers be required to leave the phone at home or at least stow it in checked luggage? It is left up to the individual passenger to not interfere with airline navigational systems.but oral hygiene should be checked at the gate. g I guess the government is protecting us after all. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 08/11/06 2:23 PM Actually, it's in the FAA regs. I don't know about the FCC regs (I stopped reading them when the CB abortion took place). Later, Steve Thompson -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rick Combest Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 12:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Damping Fields Isn't the 'turn your cell-phones off' while flying an FCC thing and not an FAA thing? snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Damping Fields
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Thompson, Steve (SCI TW) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Chase, John snip Actually, commercial airliners use the same VHF nav/comm band as general aviation for air traffic control and navigation purposes. The military uses the UHF nav/comm band. snip I've often wondered about that. I have sometimes heard Cleveland (CLE) approach, and Akron-Canton approach (CAK) talking to some airliner (United, American, etc.) but never heard them talking back (same kind of thing with Pittsburgh, Columbus, Indy, etc.). That's known as frequency separation. :-) Now I know that some controllers are ganged to handle two or more radios (I've even been at CAK and Springfield MO after 10PM and the approach, tower and ground were all the same person - you talk about a bored controller). But I never heard the Big Iron pilots talking and I was supposed to be following them (visual approach) -- You should try this when vis is 2 mi and they are doing 160+Knots and you are firewalled doing 120Knots and you're #2 for the ILS ;-) Been there; done that. Technical nit: Visual approach requires VFR conditions (cig = 1000 and vsby = 3mi). The equivalent in less-than-VFR conditions is called contact approach (or that's the way it was pre-PATCO-strike; doubtless a lot of rules and descriptions have changed since then). Now, at Youngtown OH and Mansfield OH (both are C130 bases or were until very recently), I heard those guys all the time on the regular low freqs for approach, tower and ground. Best I can recall, the regular freqs for ground and tower were 121.9 and 118.3 respectively for VHF; 360.2 and 340.2 for UHF. I don't remember a regular approach control frequency, though it seems most of the facilities where I worked used 120.7 as the primary. -jc- Reagan Re-tread -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Damping Fields
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 2:39 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Damping Fields snip That's known as frequency separation. :-) snip If I remember correctly, FREQ SEP is the dead area between assigned centers of a frequency (long winded explanation needed here for FM v. AM v. PM). Now the FAA's idea of freq sep is probably another issue. Although I know that depending on the sector you are in, a controller may be ganged to you and another during low traffic times Now I know that some controllers are ganged to handle two or more radios (I've even been at CAK and Springfield MO after 10PM and the approach, tower and ground were all the same person - you talk about a bored controller). But I never heard the Big Iron pilots talking and I was supposed to be following them (visual approach) -- You should try this when vis is 2 mi and they are doing 160+Knots and you are firewalled doing 120Knots and you're #2 for the ILS ;-) Been there; done that. Technical nit: Visual approach requires VFR conditions (cig = 1000 and vsby = 3mi). The equivalent in less-than-VFR conditions is called contact approach (or that's the way it was pre-PATCO-strike; doubtless a lot of rules and descriptions have changed since then). snip Hence my comment about vis 2 mi. It was intended for those who have been there, done that. Isn't a Contact approach something like where a C130 reaches out and CONTACTs you while on approach (gotta love their turbulence as you STAND on the sky (up hill rudder peddle)). snip Now, at Youngtown OH and Mansfield OH (both are C130 bases or were until very recently), I heard those guys all the time on the regular low freqs for approach, tower and ground. Best I can recall, the regular freqs for ground and tower were 121.9 and 118.3 respectively for VHF; 360.2 and 340.2 for UHF. I don't remember a regular approach control frequency, though it seems most of the facilities where I worked used 120.7 as the primary. snip When there are towered fields relatively close together, they have their CTAF, Approach, ground, clearance, etc. all on different freqs to keep from confusing Pilots (and each other). What I meant by regular low freqs was that the C130 jocks were on the same freqs as us GA pilots who were out doing currency stuff. I'm gonna miss Mansfield OH (I've just moved to Dallas). You could do 6 approaches, holds, intercepts, and all in about 1.2 hours (per HOBBS) because of the VOR, GPS, ILS and LOC approaches between the 2 runways. Later, Steve Thompson PS. I miss PATCO -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
