Re: HDS backup process
--- snip --- The fact that ickdsf cannot clip the volser is because the hardware knows that this secondary disk is part of a suspended pair . When you suspend , ickdsf will tell you ICK30111I DEVICE SPECIFIED IS THE SECONDARY OF A DUPLEX OR PPRC PAIR ICK31024I UNABLE TO OPEN VOLUME. ICK30003I FUNCTION TERMINATED. CONDITION CODE IS 12 ( this is happening on IBM dasd and is Zaromil description ) AFAIK this is just because of pure hardware behaviour .( shutting down your entire GDPS will not clear the condition . Hardware will remember it is part of a suspended pair . So when you say it is possible to clip the volumes , do you mean you can do it only on other hardware ? (like HDS) or is it just because your BCM software is manipulating some hardware bits in the controller , in order to fool ickdsf ? ( i was thinking of a scenario with db2 log suspend , csuspend ,db2 log resume, dump the secondary volumes on cartridges, and cestpair resynch ) --- snip --- Does the DUMPCOND(SET) parameter of ICKDSF REFORMAT get you anything? I've never tried it with a suspended Duplex secondary. John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 17:34:12 +0100, John (IBM-MAIN) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- snip --- Does the DUMPCOND(SET) parameter of ICKDSF REFORMAT get you anything? I've never tried it with a suspended Duplex secondary. Well thanks I don't know i did not even know it in ickdsf ( i know the one in dfdss but as you can see i have no flashcopy ) I'll try it on monday in the office . Bruno Bruno(dot)sugliani(at)groupemornay(dot)asso(dot)fr -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
Ron, Are you using the BCM (Business Continuity Manager) Host software, or the archaic PPRC commands? As a GDPS PPRC site I believe we are stuck to PPRC commands. Zaromil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
-- snip -- Ron, Are you using the BCM (Business Continuity Manager) Host software, or the archaic PPRC commands? As a GDPS PPRC site I believe we are stuck to PPRC commands. -- snip - By default yes. You can write your own scripts, and could possibly intergrate the BCM commands into GDPS. I suspect you wouldn't get much sympathy from IBM if you got into trouble though. John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
John, Too true, but there's nothing to stop you using BCM for Shadowimage in a GDPS environment. In regards to the original question, let me have the weekend to think of it in the context of a GDPS/PPRC environment with BCM. I'm assuming a USP for the storage. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Ticic Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 5:43 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: HDS backup process -- snip -- Ron, Are you using the BCM (Business Continuity Manager) Host software, or the archaic PPRC commands? As a GDPS PPRC site I believe we are stuck to PPRC commands. -- snip - By default yes. You can write your own scripts, and could possibly intergrate the BCM commands into GDPS. I suspect you wouldn't get much sympathy from IBM if you got into trouble though. John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 21:13:20 +0800, Ron and Jenny Hawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Too true, but there's nothing to stop you using BCM for Shadowimage in a GDPS environment. In regards to the original question, let me have the weekend to think of it in the context of a GDPS/PPRC environment with BCM. I'm assuming a USP for the storage. Ron just by curiosity The fact that ickdsf cannot clip the volser is because the hardware knows that this secondary disk is part of a suspended pair . When you suspend , ickdsf will tell you ICK30111I DEVICE SPECIFIED IS THE SECONDARY OF A DUPLEX OR PPRC PAIR ICK31024I UNABLE TO OPEN VOLUME. ICK30003I FUNCTION TERMINATED. CONDITION CODE IS 12 ( this is happening on IBM dasd and is Zaromil description ) AFAIK this is just because of pure hardware behaviour .( shutting down your entire GDPS will not clear the condition . Hardware will remember it is part of a suspended pair . So when you say it is possible to clip the volumes , do you mean you can do it only on other hardware ? (like HDS) or is it just because your BCM software is manipulating some hardware bits in the controller , in order to fool ickdsf ? ( i was thinking of a scenario with db2 log suspend , csuspend ,db2 log resume, dump the secondary volumes on cartridges, and cestpair resynch ) but ... Thanks Bruno Bruno(dot)sugliani(at)groupemornay(dot)asso(dot)fr -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
Apologies if you have already seen this posting. I'm having problems seeing posting as I only view thru the News group. I have NOMAIL set so I do not get email for any postings. I'm not sure if I also need to post to news group. Since we are not able to purchase something like FDR Instant, I'm looking for other ways to avoid having to clip volume labels. Has anyone had any experience copying volumes with DFDSS COPY with the dumpconditional and fastreplication keywords on a HDS 9900? Is Showdow Image invoked? Also what functionality does ShadowImage Flashcopy v2 Extension provide? What is the difference if I run DFDSS COPY with dumpconditional with and without this extension? Thank you Ron and Jenny Hawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] John, Too true, but there's nothing to stop you using BCM for Shadowimage in a GDPS environment. In regards to the original question, let me have the weekend to think of it in the context of a GDPS/PPRC environment with BCM. I'm assuming a USP for the storage. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Ticic Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 5:43 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: HDS backup process -- snip -- Ron, Are you using the BCM (Business Continuity Manager) Host software, or the archaic PPRC commands? As a GDPS PPRC site I believe we are stuck to PPRC commands. -- snip - By default yes. You can write your own scripts, and could possibly intergrate the BCM commands into GDPS. I suspect you wouldn't get much sympathy from IBM if you got into trouble though. John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
This thread has begun with a PPRCopy question. I am not sure if this two parts of Bruce' mails (not to cite John and Ron) talk about PPRC (Truecopy) or Flashcopy (Shadowimage). I wasn't able to see any of these features in our z/OS 1.7 PPRC environment using HDS 9980. - snip - You don't need to lose the relationship to do the backup. You probably want to backup a point-in-time copy of the volumes, so you can just SUSPEND the PPRC relationship. This freezes the copy and makes it read/write so you can relabel (CLIP) it. After the backup, you can RESYNC the PPRC copy, which just copies tracks updated since the SUSPEND. - snip - Supposing we do it in a z/OS 1.7 system I don't understand how is it possible to clip the secondary volume. I get the info about the device being a PPRC secondary device. Even if I take the primary volume offline, I get the same kind of message if I try to take the secondary volume online. Bruce wrote: - snip - I believe that RESYNC will copy any tracks which have been modified on the source OR target. - snip - The other thing that I don't understand: To be able to write on the secondary volume, I suppose I have to use CDELPAIR or at least CRECOVER. If I use CDELPAIR, I can not RESYNC anymore. If I use CRECOVER the secondary volume switches in the SIMPLEX status, so how comes its bitmap is updated? Zaromil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process (resend)
Dennis, I believe that if you have the FlashCopy v2 Extension for your HDS, DFSMSdss should act just like it is working with an ESS and attempt to use the FlashCopy interface to do an instant copy of the volume. (I can't say for sure since I haven't had the chance to try it on an HDS. We don't have any lying around to play on.) If you don't have the Extension, then we would revert to using manual I/O on the volume and the copy process would take longer to complete. Thanks, Andrew Wilt IBM DFSMSdss Architecture/Development Tucson, Arizona IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU wrote on 03/09/2006 10:53:52 AM: Retry sending this post Since we are not able to purchase something like FDR Instant, I'm looking for other ways to avoid having to clip volume labels. Has anyone had any experience copying volumes with DFDSS COPY with the dumpconditional and fastreplication keywords on a HDS 9900? Is Showdow Image invoked? Also what functionality does ShadowImage Flashcopy v2 Extension provide? What is the difference if I run DFDSS COPY with dumpconditional with and without this extension? Thank you - enD sin -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
Since we are not able to purchase something like FDR Instant, I'm looking for other ways to avoid having to clip volume labels. Has anyone had any experience copying volumes with DFDSS COPY with the dumpconditional and fastreplication keywords on a HDS 9900? Is Showdow Image invoked? Also what functionality does ShadowImage Flashcopy v2 Extension provide? What is the difference if I run DFDSS COPY with dumpconditional with and without this extension? Thank you. - enD sin -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
Dennis, You don't have o clip the labels of a conditioned volume - that's the reason for dumpconditioning. However conditioning is a function provided by DFDSS, so you will be doing a normal copy of every volume prior to dumping it. DFDSS can interact with Flashcopy so that the hardware will handle the copy. On HDS you need Shadowimage with the FC add-on so that Shadowimage executes as FC compatible. This means your DFDSS copies will be complete almost instantly and Dumpconditioning will leave the target volume online so you can DUMP it. With the FC extension you can also combine Dumpconditioning with FCNOCOPY and FCWITHDRAW. In your first e-mail you mentioned PPRCcopy, which the ensuing thread assumed you meant TrueCopy. If that's right then none of the discussion about DFDSS is applicable because FC does not interact with Remote Copy software. You also mentioned a new HDS 9900. There are no new 9900s, and in fact we stopped making them half a decade ago. IIRC the Flashcopy extension is limited to FC Version functions only. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dennis Leong Sent: Thursday, 9 March 2006 5:51 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: HDS backup process Since we are not able to purchase something like FDR Instant, I'm looking for other ways to avoid having to clip volume labels. Has anyone had any experience copying volumes with DFDSS COPY with the dumpconditional and fastreplication keywords on a HDS 9900? Is Showdow Image invoked? Also what functionality does ShadowImage Flashcopy v2 Extension provide? What is the difference if I run DFDSS COPY with dumpconditional with and without this extension? Thank you. - enD sin -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
Actually he is always right Thanks, Bruno. If only it were true (sigh) -- Bruce A. Black Senior Software Developer for FDR Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
John, Not actually true. There is a bitmap merge as part of the resynch. Ron If you CLIP the secondary DASD, just remember that a subsequent RESYNC will not copy the label since that wasn't changed on the primary subsystem. You may want to CLIP it back. John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
Bruno, Yeah, but we are talking TrueCopy not PPRC :) Bruce is correct. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruno Sugliani Sent: Wednesday, 1 March 2006 3:00 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: HDS backup process On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:45:37 -0500, Bruce Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that RESYNC will copy any tracks which have been modified on the source OR target. Ron Hawkins, can you confirm? I dont think so ( i am not Ron) A cestpair resynch in a pprc IBM disks environment will only synch from primary to secondary , only if a track in the primary has been updated. Well let's wait Ron . Bruno Bruno(dot)sugliani(at)groupemornay(dot)asso(dot)fr -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
-- snip -- John, Not actually true. There is a bitmap merge as part of the resynch. Ron If you CLIP the secondary DASD, just remember that a subsequent RESYNC will not copy the label since that wasn't changed on the primary subsystem. You may want to CLIP it back. John -- snip -- Ron, I assume that if both bitmaps indicated that the same track was changed that the latest timestamp wins. If I remember correctly, the timestamps are sourced via the MVS I/O (typically from a SYSPLEX timer). Since the primary and secondary may not be attached to the same time source, don't you see this as being a little risky! John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
On Sat, 4 Mar 2006 18:59:56 +0800, Ron and Jenny Hawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bruno, Yeah, but we are talking TrueCopy not PPRC :) Bruce is correct. Ron Actually he is always right and that was the reason i was very cautious i wrote with PPRC on IBM hardware ! :-)) Bruce ... 1000 apologies grin Bruno Bruno(dot)sugliani(at)groupemornay(dot)asso(dot)fr -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
John, There is no timestamps in a bitmaps. After the merge any tracks marked as changed in the merged bitmap will be sent from P-VOL to S-VOL. Ron Ron, I assume that if both bitmaps indicated that the same track was changed that the latest timestamp wins. If I remember correctly, the timestamps are sourced via the MVS I/O (typically from a SYSPLEX timer). Since the primary and secondary may not be attached to the same time source, don't you see this as being a little risky! John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
- snip - I was told that in order to do this the secondary volume labels' must be clipped before I can bring them online but by clipping them I also loose the primary-secondary volume relationships. Besides using another lpar or other 3rd party utilities to run the backups, how does one handle this situation? - snip - From Hitachi Freedom Storage™ Lightning 9900™ V Series Hitachi TrueCopy – S/390® User and Reference Guide snip The RCU does not allow a TC390 R-VOL to be online and rejects all host-requested read and write I/O operations for a TC390 R-VOL. The TC390 R-VOLs must be offline during normal TC390 operations. Note: TrueCopy – S/390® provides a special R-VOL read option (see section 2.2.4) which allows read-only access to the R-VOL while the pair is suspended. If you need write access to a TC390 R-VOL, you must delete the pair. 2.2.4 R-VOL Read Option For additional flexibility, TrueCopy – S/390® offers a special R-VOL read option. The Hitachi Data Systems representative enables the R-VOL read option on the RCU (mode 20). The R-VOL read option allows you to read a TC390 R-VOL only while the pair is suspended, that is, without having to delete the pair. The RCU will allow you to change only the VOLSER of the suspended R-VOL, so that the R-VOL can be online to the same host as the M-VOL while the pair is suspended. All other write I/Os will be rejected by the RCU. The MCU copies the M-VOL VOLSER back onto the R-VOL when the pair is resumed. When the R-VOL read option is not enabled and/or the pair is not suspended, the RCU rejects all read and write I/Os to a TC390 R-VOL. Note: If you need write access to an R-VOL, you must delete the pair. Note: For 2105 controller emulation, the CSUSPEND command to the R-VOL of a suspended TC390 pair will be rejected when the TC390 R-VOL read option is used. snip -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
-- snip -- I was told that in order to do this the secondary volume labels' must be clipped before I can bring them online but by clipping them I also loose the primary-secondary volume relationships. Besides using another lpar or other 3rd party utilities to run the backups, how does one handle this situation? You don't need to lose the relationship to do the backup. You probably want to backup a point-in-time copy of the volumes, so you can just SUSPEND the PPRC relationship. This freezes the copy and makes it read/write so you can relabel (CLIP) it. After the backup, you can RESYNC the PPRC copy, which just copies tracks updated since the SUSPEND. -- snip -- If you CLIP the secondary DASD, just remember that a subsequent RESYNC will not copy the label since that wasn't changed on the primary subsystem. You may want to CLIP it back. John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
If you CLIP the secondary DASD, just remember that a subsequent RESYNC will not copy the label since that wasn't changed on the primary subsystem. You may want to CLIP it back. I believe that RESYNC will copy any tracks which have been modified on the source OR target. Ron Hawkins, can you confirm? -- Bruce A. Black Senior Software Developer for FDR Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 11:45:37 -0500, Bruce Black [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that RESYNC will copy any tracks which have been modified on the source OR target. Ron Hawkins, can you confirm? I dont think so ( i am not Ron) A cestpair resynch in a pprc IBM disks environment will only synch from primary to secondary , only if a track in the primary has been updated. Well let's wait Ron . Bruno Bruno(dot)sugliani(at)groupemornay(dot)asso(dot)fr -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
-Snip-- I believe that RESYNC will copy any tracks which have been modified on the source OR target. Ron Hawkins, can you confirm? -Snip- Kinda depends whether you are talking about Trucopy of Shadowimage... That is true for Trucopy (see below from the manual): - If the RCU accepts write I/Os for a split S-VOL (S-VOL write enable pairsplit option), the RCU keeps track of the S-VOL cylinders/tracks which are updated. When the split pair is resumed, the MCU merges the P-VOL and S-VOL cylinder/track bitmaps to determine the out-of-sync cylinders/tracks and ensure accurate resynchronization. - But I don't think a normal Shadowimage resync will do that Cheers... Maurice Clark -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: HDS backup process
We've just moved to a new HDS 9900 storage device and now we are planning to use PPRCopy to replicate volumes for backup. We want to be able to run the backups on the same lpar that the primary volumes are online to using DFDSS. I was told that in order to do this the secondary volume labels' must be clipped before I can bring them online but by clipping them I also loose the primary-secondary volume relationships. Besides using another lpar or other 3rd party utilities to run the backups, how does one handle this situation? You don't need to lose the relationship to do the backup. You probably want to backup a point-in-time copy of the volumes, so you can just SUSPEND the PPRC relationship. This freezes the copy and makes it read/write so you can relabel (CLIP) it. After the backup, you can RESYNC the PPRC copy, which just copies tracks updated since the SUSPEND. You didn't mention if you are going to use HDS ShadowImage (PPRC within a subsystem) or real PPRC (HRC) between two subsystems. In either case HDS has manuals on this, I am most familiar with the ShadowImage manual. Having said that, you might want to check out our FDRINSTANT (see our web site below). It supports ShadowImage and HRC and allows you to do the backup of the point-in-time copy without relabling it or any tomfollery like that. -- Bruce A. Black Senior Software Developer for FDR Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
