Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-07 Thread Big Iron
I went and RTFMed (C/C++ Runtime Library Reference) since my memory
obviously needed refreshing; I found this note:

If you cannot use a PDSE member or HFS file, and your program contains
C++ code, or C code that is compiled with any of the RENT, LONGNAME, DLL or
IPA compiler options, you must use the prelinker. C and C++ code compiled
with the GOFF or XPLINK compiler options cannot be processed by the prelinker.

So, the use of the prelinker allows you to avoid the use of PDSEs in some
cases. COMPAT is one binder option which should be checked.

Bill

On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:52:32 -0600, Paul Gilmartin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
In a recent note, Big Iron said:

 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:02:37 -0500

 There are also some binder options: COMPAT, CASE=MIXED, LONGNAME or DLL
 which can force the use of program objects.

I couldn't resist trying this:

//DOIT EXEC HLASMCL,PARM.C=(OBJECT,NOXOBJECT,TERM),
//  PARM.L='MAP,LET,LIST,NCAL,CASE=MIXED'
[ ... ]
//*
//L.SYSLIN DD  DISP=SHR,DSN=*.C.SYSLIN
// DD  *
NAME MixCase(R)
//L.SYSLMOD DD  DSNTYPE=PDS

... with the result in L.SYSPRINT:

SAVE OPERATION SUMMARY:

   MEMBER NAME MixCase
   LOAD LIBRARYSYS05155.T094053.RA000.MIXED.GOSET.H01
   PROGRAM TYPELOAD MODULE

... so, apparently, CASE=MIXED still doesn't require PDSE.  The only way
I can imagine to execute a program so named is with ATTACH from an
Assembler program.  I'm confident (without trying) that even Rexx
address 'ATTCHMVS' 'MixCase' wouldn't do it.  (But how about C,
COBOL, PL/I, FORTRAN?)

-- gil
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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-04 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Robert Pelletier said:

 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:01:56 -0400
 
 Thanks for the quick response John. We  don't use PDSE's either.
 Should be fun. Have a good weekend all.
 
You should, then, consider the alternative big jump:  HFS instead of
PDSE.

 -Original Message-
 From: McKown, John [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
 Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 4:00 PM
 
 Bottom line:You must link into a PDSE library and not a PDS library. I
 don't know why, but a PDSE can do things that a PDS cannot.
 
Indeed, this is puzzling.  Program Objects can otherwise reside
in HFS files, which are quite unstructured and featureless.  It
should have been quite simple to host such objects in a RECFM=U
data set.

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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-04 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Schiradin,Roland HG-Dir itb-db/dc said:

 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:48:03 +0200
 
 Unfortunally the process for the internal compress is a bit hidden to me.
 
I had thought there is no compress.  Space vacated by deleted members is
simply recycled for new members; existing members remain in place.  This
still leaves an issue of fragmentation; I don't know what addresses that.

If I migrate and recall a PDSE, does it come back optimized, defragmented,
compressed, whatever; even as happens with a PDS?

 Another issue is NON-SMS and PDSE
 
I was pleased to learn, relatively recently, that temporary PDSEs are
supported.  I assume this means something broke the logical chain
of PDSE implies SMS implies catalogued implies non-temporary.  Are
temporary PDSEs another instance that requires the SMS address space
to be active?

-- gil
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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-04 Thread john gilmore

Paul Gilmartin writes



You should, then, consider the alternative big jump:  HFS instead of PDSE.



This is good advice iff the C or C++ programs (functions) involved are to be 
executed under
USS.  It is very bad advice if they arre instead to be executed undrer MVS 
(which I suspect to be the case here since the PDS-PDSE incompatibility 
problem is most unlikely to have arisen in a USS environment).


More interesting here is of course the implicit notion that UNIX is better 
than MVS.  My own retrograde view is of course that it is not.  I use it 
when I must, but it and its dialects are still radically immature, 
labor-intensive, and unreliable.


John Gilmore
Ashland, MA 01721
U.S.A.

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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-04 Thread Edward E. Jaffe

Paul Gilmartin wrote:


... PDSE implies SMS implies ...



IIRC, non-SMS-managed PDSE became generally available March 31, 2000 
with OS/390 V2R9.


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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-04 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, john gilmore said:

 Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 14:44:04 +
 
 You should, then, consider the alternative big jump:  HFS instead of PDSE.
 
 
 This is good advice iff the C or C++ programs (functions) involved are to be
 executed under
 USS.  It is very bad advice if they arre instead to be executed undrer MVS
 (which I suspect to be the case here since the PDS-PDSE incompatibility
 problem is most unlikely to have arisen in a USS environment).
 
Thanks for the wise caution; I should have made that explicit.  I would,
however, have qualified it to ... executed under _Classic_ MVS, since
Unix Services (quiet, Shmuel!) is also under MVS.

 More interesting here is of course the implicit notion that UNIX is better
 than MVS.  My own retrograde view is of course that it is not.  I use it
 when I must, but it and its dialects are still radically immature,
 labor-intensive, and unreliable.
 
It depends.  I find make far less labor intensive than writing JCL.
Of course, there's the added environmental concern: much portable
software comes packaged with the UNIX make trappings.  I suppose
the latter was among IBM's initial motivations to provide Unix
Services.

The one apect of maturity that allows make to work at all is that
the OS maintains timestamps for all files.  MVS is haphazard and
immature in this respect.  However, SMP/E's process of tracking
dependencies outside of file attributes is more mature than makes.
I see more similarities between SMP/E and make than most observers.
Each has its advantages.

-- gil
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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-04 Thread Paul Gilmartin
In a recent note, Big Iron said:

 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:02:37 -0500
 
 There are also some binder options: COMPAT, CASE=MIXED, LONGNAME or DLL
 which can force the use of program objects.
 
I couldn't resist trying this:

//DOIT EXEC HLASMCL,PARM.C=(OBJECT,NOXOBJECT,TERM),
//  PARM.L='MAP,LET,LIST,NCAL,CASE=MIXED'
[ ... ]
//*
//L.SYSLIN DD  DISP=SHR,DSN=*.C.SYSLIN
// DD  *
NAME MixCase(R)
//L.SYSLMOD DD  DSNTYPE=PDS

... with the result in L.SYSPRINT:

SAVE OPERATION SUMMARY:

   MEMBER NAME MixCase
   LOAD LIBRARYSYS05155.T094053.RA000.MIXED.GOSET.H01
   PROGRAM TYPELOAD MODULE

... so, apparently, CASE=MIXED still doesn't require PDSE.  The only way
I can imagine to execute a program so named is with ATTACH from an
Assembler program.  I'm confident (without trying) that even Rexx
address 'ATTCHMVS' 'MixCase' wouldn't do it.  (But how about C,
COBOL, PL/I, FORTRAN?)

-- gil
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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-04 Thread Craddock, Chris
 Edward E. Jaffe wrote:
 
 Paul Gilmartin wrote:
 
 ... PDSE implies SMS implies ...
 
 IIRC, non-SMS-managed PDSE became generally available March 31, 2000 
 with OS/390 V2R9.

True enough and at the same time  non-SMS PDSE support was
retrofitted all the way back to OS/390 V2R5. But hardly anyone
heard the message; we still get whines from customers when they
see a PDSE dataset requirement. Go figure.

Its fair to say IBM made a complete mess of PDSE and related
functionality and rollout. There were marketing reasons behind
a fair bit of what went on and we are still living with the 
fall out. sigh

CC

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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-04 Thread Schiradin,Roland HG-Dir itb-db/dc
Well the term internal compress is wrong. 

There is no compress for PDSE libraries and SMS will automaticly release/reuse 
the space when no connection exists. So what is a connection/connector in terms 
of a load library in the DFHRPL concat? What about space reuse (connector) for 
a PDSE in the LNKLST?

Assume CICS is up from IPL to IPL (7*24) 

1. CICS load a program object from DFHRPL using BLDL/DESERV.
2. In some cases CICS does a compress because of SOS conditions
3. Someone binds the program object 
4. CICS require the program again and will reload using the TTR from the 
BLDL/DESERV
5. PDSE returns back the old version of program object because there was no 
NewCopy so far
6. Someone issue a CICS NewCopy

Is the connection to the old program object gone after the NewCopy and SMS 
will now reuse the space for the old program object? 

No Newcopy:
Does this mean the space for old program objects will be releases/reused after 
CICS is down during the IPL? It seems so 




-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von 
Paul Gilmartin
Gesendet: Samstag, 4. Juni 2005 16:36
An: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Betreff: Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming


In a recent note, Schiradin,Roland HG-Dir itb-db/dc said:

 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:48:03 +0200

 Unfortunally the process for the internal compress is a bit hidden to 
 me.

I had thought there is no compress.  Space vacated by deleted members is simply 
recycled for new members; existing members remain in place.  This still leaves 
an issue of fragmentation; I don't know what addresses that.

If I migrate and recall a PDSE, does it come back optimized, defragmented, 
compressed, whatever; even as happens with a PDS?

 Another issue is NON-SMS and PDSE

I was pleased to learn, relatively recently, that temporary PDSEs are 
supported.  I assume this means something broke the logical chain of PDSE 
implies SMS implies catalogued implies non-temporary.  Are temporary PDSEs 
another instance that requires the SMS address space to be active?

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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-03 Thread McKown, John
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Pelletier
 Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 2:58 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Subject: IEW2606S Doing C Programming
 
 
 Hi All. I'm trying to save the compiled 'c' code to a loadlib 
 and I'm getting the following error in my jcl during the bind process:
 IEW2606S 4B39 MODULE INCORPORATES PROGRAM MANAGEMENT 3 
 FEATURES AND CANNOT BE SAVED IN LOAD MODULE FORMAT.
 
 Would anyone no what is going on? This is the fisrt time we 
 are doing C programming.
 
 Thanks once agian group.
 
 Bob Pelletier 
 Ct. Student Loan
 Rocky Hill, Connecticut
 

Bottom line:You must link into a PDSE library and not a PDS library. I
don't know why, but a PDSE can do things that a PDS cannot.


--
John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
UICI Insurance Center
Information Technology

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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-03 Thread Bob Shannon
 Hi All. I'm trying to save the compiled 'c' code to a loadlib and I'm
getting the following error in my jcl during the bind process: IEW2606S
4B39 MODULE INCORPORATES PROGRAM MANAGEMENT 3 FEATURES AND CANNOT BE
SAVED IN LOAD MODULE FORMAT.

Your library needs to be a PDSE.

Bob Shannon 

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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-03 Thread Robert Pelletier
Thanks for the quick response John. We  don't use PDSE's either. Should be fun. 
Have a good weekend all.

-Original Message-
From: McKown, John [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 4:00 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming


 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Pelletier
 Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 2:58 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Subject: IEW2606S Doing C Programming
 
 
 Hi All. I'm trying to save the compiled 'c' code to a loadlib 
 and I'm getting the following error in my jcl during the bind process:
 IEW2606S 4B39 MODULE INCORPORATES PROGRAM MANAGEMENT 3 
 FEATURES AND CANNOT BE SAVED IN LOAD MODULE FORMAT.
 
 Would anyone no what is going on? This is the fisrt time we 
 are doing C programming.
 
 Thanks once agian group.
 
 Bob Pelletier 
 Ct. Student Loan
 Rocky Hill, Connecticut
 

Bottom line:You must link into a PDSE library and not a PDS library. I
don't know why, but a PDSE can do things that a PDS cannot.


--

John McKown
Senior Systems Programmer
UICI Insurance Center
Information Technology

This message (including any attachments) contains confidential
information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its'
content is protected by law.  If you are not the intended recipient, you
should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure,
copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action
based on it, is strictly prohibited.

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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-03 Thread Bruce Black
I was going to gently suggest to Bob that he RTFM, but I checked the 1.6 
FM myself and find that the message description doesn't help much.


  *IEW2606S* *MODULE* *INCORPORATES* feature_level *FEATURES* *AND* *CANNOT* 
*BE* *SAVED* *IN*
 format_level *FORMAT.*

*Explanation:* An attempt is being made to save a module in a format 
that is incompatible with the features being used. Certain 
characteristics of the module, such as symbol length or special classes, 
prevent it from being saved in the specified format. In the message text:


feature_level
   The VERSION /n/ PROGRAM OBJECT or Z/OS V1R/n/ PROGRAM OBJECT.
   The first form is used for features introduced in OS/390 releases,
   and corresponds to PM numbers as defined by the COMPAT option.

format_level
   Can be LOAD MODULE, VERSION /n/ PROGRAM OBJECT, or A Z/OS
   V1R/n/ COMPATIBLE PROGRAM OBJECT. A load module is stored in a
   standard PDS (DSNTYPE=PDS). A program object is stored in a LIBRARY
   or HFS file. The VERSION /n/ form is used as described for
   feature_level.

*System* *Action:* The load module or program object cannot be saved.

*User* *Response:* Correct by (1) changing the target library (for 
example, SYSLMOD) to be of DSNTYPE=LIBRARY or HFS, and/or (2) removing 
the COMPAT option or changing it to specify a more recent level.


First, the feature_level doesn't include the PROGRAM MANAGEMENT 3 
text that Bob got.  Second, it only speaks of DSNTYPE=LIBRARY, not the 
more commonly recognized term PDSE.  Since Bob was not a PDSE user, it 
would require more research to understand what DSNTYPE=LIBRARY means.  
So, Bob, you did the right think by asking here. 



--
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Senior Software Developer for FDR
Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300
personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-03 Thread Robert Pelletier
Thanks Bruce and everyone. Really appreciate it again.
Bob

-Original Message-
From: Bruce Black [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 4:17 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming


I was going to gently suggest to Bob that he RTFM, but I checked the 1.6 
FM myself and find that the message description doesn't help much.

   *IEW2606S* *MODULE* *INCORPORATES* feature_level *FEATURES* *AND* *CANNOT* 
*BE* *SAVED* *IN*
  format_level *FORMAT.*

*Explanation:* An attempt is being made to save a module in a format 
that is incompatible with the features being used. Certain 
characteristics of the module, such as symbol length or special classes, 
prevent it from being saved in the specified format. In the message text:

feature_level
The VERSION /n/ PROGRAM OBJECT or Z/OS V1R/n/ PROGRAM OBJECT.
The first form is used for features introduced in OS/390 releases,
and corresponds to PM numbers as defined by the COMPAT option.

format_level
Can be LOAD MODULE, VERSION /n/ PROGRAM OBJECT, or A Z/OS
V1R/n/ COMPATIBLE PROGRAM OBJECT. A load module is stored in a
standard PDS (DSNTYPE=PDS). A program object is stored in a LIBRARY
or HFS file. The VERSION /n/ form is used as described for
feature_level.

*System* *Action:* The load module or program object cannot be saved.

*User* *Response:* Correct by (1) changing the target library (for 
example, SYSLMOD) to be of DSNTYPE=LIBRARY or HFS, and/or (2) removing 
the COMPAT option or changing it to specify a more recent level.

First, the feature_level doesn't include the PROGRAM MANAGEMENT 3 
text that Bob got.  Second, it only speaks of DSNTYPE=LIBRARY, not the 
more commonly recognized term PDSE.  Since Bob was not a PDSE user, it 
would require more research to understand what DSNTYPE=LIBRARY means.  
So, Bob, you did the right think by asking here. 


-- 

Bruce A. Black
Senior Software Developer for FDR
Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300
personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com

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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-03 Thread Jeffrey D. Smith
I think it means you must save into a PDSE as a program
object, instead of a PDS as a load module.

Anyone know for sure?

-Original Message-
From: Robert Pelletier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 6/3/2005 1:58 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: IEW2606S Doing C Programming




Hi All. I'm trying to save the compiled 'c' code to a loadlib and I'm getting 
the following error in my jcl during the bind process:
IEW2606S 4B39 MODULE INCORPORATES PROGRAM MANAGEMENT 3 FEATURES AND CANNOT BE 
SAVED IN LOAD MODULE FORMAT.

Would anyone no what is going on? This is the fisrt time we are doing C 
programming.

Thanks once agian group.

Bob Pelletier   
Ct. Student Loan
Rocky Hill, Connecticut

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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-03 Thread Farley, Peter x23353
Bob,

The *reason* that your C compile may be using PM3 features may be due to
the compiler options that are set for your installation and/or compile PROC.
Use of options like GOFF and others cause the compiler to output object
code that can only be bound into a program object.  Other options I
know of that cause this include POSIX, which (for instance) *must* be on
if you wish to use pthreads in your programming.

Essentially, using any PM3 options or language features limits you to PDSE
(which is identical to saying DSNTYPE=LIBRARY), or to storing your bound
executable in an HFS directory (the other permitted repository for program
objects).

HTH

Peter

-Original Message-
From: Robert Pelletier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 4:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming


Thanks Bruce and everyone. Really appreciate it again.
Bob

-Original Message-
From: Bruce Black [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 4:17 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming


I was going to gently suggest to Bob that he RTFM, but I checked the 1.6 
FM myself and find that the message description doesn't help much.

   *IEW2606S* *MODULE* *INCORPORATES* feature_level *FEATURES* *AND*
*CANNOT* *BE* *SAVED* *IN*
  format_level *FORMAT.*

*Explanation:* An attempt is being made to save a module in a format 
that is incompatible with the features being used. Certain 
characteristics of the module, such as symbol length or special classes, 
prevent it from being saved in the specified format. In the message text:

feature_level
The VERSION /n/ PROGRAM OBJECT or Z/OS V1R/n/ PROGRAM OBJECT.
The first form is used for features introduced in OS/390 releases,
and corresponds to PM numbers as defined by the COMPAT option.

format_level
Can be LOAD MODULE, VERSION /n/ PROGRAM OBJECT, or A Z/OS
V1R/n/ COMPATIBLE PROGRAM OBJECT. A load module is stored in a
standard PDS (DSNTYPE=PDS). A program object is stored in a LIBRARY
or HFS file. The VERSION /n/ form is used as described for
feature_level.

*System* *Action:* The load module or program object cannot be saved.

*User* *Response:* Correct by (1) changing the target library (for 
example, SYSLMOD) to be of DSNTYPE=LIBRARY or HFS, and/or (2) removing 
the COMPAT option or changing it to specify a more recent level.

First, the feature_level doesn't include the PROGRAM MANAGEMENT 3 
text that Bob got.  Second, it only speaks of DSNTYPE=LIBRARY, not the 
more commonly recognized term PDSE.  Since Bob was not a PDSE user, it 
would require more research to understand what DSNTYPE=LIBRARY means.  
So, Bob, you did the right think by asking here. 

_
This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee 
and
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Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming

2005-06-03 Thread Big Iron
There are also some binder options: COMPAT, CASE=MIXED, LONGNAME or DLL
which can force the use of program objects.

Bill

On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 16:34:27 -0400, Farley, Peter x23353
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Bob,

The *reason* that your C compile may be using PM3 features may be due to
the compiler options that are set for your installation and/or compile PROC.
Use of options like GOFF and others cause the compiler to output object
code that can only be bound into a program object.  Other options I
know of that cause this include POSIX, which (for instance) *must* be on
if you wish to use pthreads in your programming.

Essentially, using any PM3 options or language features limits you to PDSE
(which is identical to saying DSNTYPE=LIBRARY), or to storing your bound
executable in an HFS directory (the other permitted repository for program
objects).

HTH

Peter

-Original Message-
From: Robert Pelletier [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 4:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming


Thanks Bruce and everyone. Really appreciate it again.
Bob

-Original Message-
From: Bruce Black [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 4:17 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IEW2606S Doing C Programming


I was going to gently suggest to Bob that he RTFM, but I checked the 1.6
FM myself and find that the message description doesn't help much.

   *IEW2606S* *MODULE* *INCORPORATES* feature_level *FEATURES* *AND*
*CANNOT* *BE* *SAVED* *IN*
  format_level *FORMAT.*

*Explanation:* An attempt is being made to save a module in a format
that is incompatible with the features being used. Certain
characteristics of the module, such as symbol length or special classes,
prevent it from being saved in the specified format. In the message text:

feature_level
The VERSION /n/ PROGRAM OBJECT or Z/OS V1R/n/ PROGRAM OBJECT.
The first form is used for features introduced in OS/390 releases,
and corresponds to PM numbers as defined by the COMPAT option.

format_level
Can be LOAD MODULE, VERSION /n/ PROGRAM OBJECT, or A Z/OS
V1R/n/ COMPATIBLE PROGRAM OBJECT. A load module is stored in a
standard PDS (DSNTYPE=PDS). A program object is stored in a LIBRARY
or HFS file. The VERSION /n/ form is used as described for
feature_level.

*System* *Action:* The load module or program object cannot be saved.

*User* *Response:* Correct by (1) changing the target library (for
example, SYSLMOD) to be of DSNTYPE=LIBRARY or HFS, and/or (2) removing
the COMPAT option or changing it to specify a more recent level.

First, the feature_level doesn't include the PROGRAM MANAGEMENT 3
text that Bob got.  Second, it only speaks of DSNTYPE=LIBRARY, not the
more commonly recognized term PDSE.  Since Bob was not a PDSE user, it
would require more research to understand what DSNTYPE=LIBRARY means.
So, Bob, you did the right think by asking here.

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