Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
JT wrote: Thanks for all the responses here and offline. Here are some answers to questions about our environment: - The 2096-T01 is our only processor. We are running z/OS 1.11. - We do not currently use sub-capacity processing. We do not submit monthly SCRT reports. - The T01 runs at 100% every night for 10 hours. - The IMS address space and MPRs are up from 6AM-8PM daily. These address spaces average LT 3% utilization during this time. The peak for a 30 minute interval is almost always under 5%. - There is a small amount batch IMS during the nightly cycle (after 8PM). - We run IMS TM/DM. Some IMS TM also use DB2. - We currently use CA-MIM when the TECH LPAR is up - not GRS. - IMS DM and TM are currently under EWLC pricing. The main IMS application is critical to our business. It is not scheduled to be replaced for at least 5 years. Several folks commented off-line that if we only use a single CEC there is no possibility of savings. Planning for Sub-capacity Pricing on z/OS indicates the sub-capacity pricing metric operates at the LPAR level. I did not see anything about CEC limitations. Did I miss something? You did not. Start at http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/z/resources/swprice/ and discover that, if you establish a second LPAR and run IMS (and, potentially DB2) only in that LPAR you can indeed use sub-capacity pricing. There's a link to the sub-capacity-eligible software from the EWLC description. Are there any small shops out there that have been successful at controlling IMS costs by creating a separate 'IMS LPAR'? Not IMS, but CICS/TS and DB2. The hardest part was determining beforehand just how much savings we could expect. Use your business partner to find out the cost given the MSU consumption by the (new) LPAR. Bob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
Also beware of a non-dedicated processer for the CF LPAR. This does many poor things to performance. Also, last I heard the Rule of Thumb (ROT ) for logical to physical processors was between 2 and 3 logical to one physical. Beware of defining too many LPARs on a single physical CP, by creating an IMS LPAR, possibly a CF LPAR etc. ROT for the number of physical vs. logical processors is about 1:5. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
> Several folks commented off-line that if we only use a single CEC there is > no possibility of savings. > Planning for Sub-capacity Pricing on z/OS indicates the sub-capacity pricing > metric operates at the LPAR level. I did not see anything about CEC > limitations. Did I miss something? Toss a few shekels Al Sherkows way and find out for sure. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
W dniu 2011-05-19 15:12, Vernooij, CP - SPLXM pisze: [...] Beware of defining too many LPARs on a single physical CP, by creating an IMS LPAR, possibly a CF LPAR etc. ROT for the number of physical vs. logical processors is about 1:5. ^^ What does it mean? Is it ROT to have (at least) 1 physical CP per 5 logical processors? -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- Tre tej wiadomoci moe zawiera informacje prawnie chronione Banku przeznaczone wycznie do uytku subowego adresata. Odbiorc moe by jedynie jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem niniejszej wiadomoci lub pracownikiem upowanionym do jej przekazania adresatowi, informujemy, e jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie zawiadomi nadawc wysyajc odpowied oraz trwale usun t wiadomo wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku. This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is intended solely for business use of the addressee. This e-mail may only be received by the addressee and may not be disclosed to any third parties. If you are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorised to forward it to the addressee, be advised that any dissemination, copying, distribution or any other similar activity is legally prohibited and may be punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your e-mail software and delete permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to hard drive. BRE Bank SA, 00-950 Warszawa, ul. Senatorska 18, tel. +48 (22) 829 00 00, fax +48 (22) 829 00 33, e-mail: i...@brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2011 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 168.346.696 zotych. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
"JT" wrote in message news:... > Thanks for all the responses here and offline. Here are some answers to > questions about our environment: > > - The 2096-T01 is our only processor. We are running z/OS 1.11. > - We do not currently use sub-capacity processing. We do not submit > monthly SCRT reports. > - The T01 runs at 100% every night for 10 hours. > - The IMS address space and MPRs are up from 6AM-8PM daily. These > address spaces average LT 3% utilization during this time. The peak for a 30 > minute interval is almost always under 5%. > - There is a small amount batch IMS during the nightly cycle (after 8PM). > - We run IMS TM/DM. Some IMS TM also use DB2. > - We currently use CA-MIM when the TECH LPAR is up - not GRS. > - IMS DM and TM are currently under EWLC pricing. > > The main IMS application is critical to our business. It is not scheduled to be > replaced for at least 5 years. > > Several folks commented off-line that if we only use a single CEC there is no > possibility of savings. > Planning for Sub-capacity Pricing on z/OS indicates the sub-capacity pricing > metric operates at the LPAR level. I did not see anything about CEC > limitations. Did I miss something? > > Are there any small shops out there that have been successful at controlling > IMS costs by creating a separate 'IMS LPAR'? > > Thanks for the responses. > Beware of defining too many LPARs on a single physical CP, by creating an IMS LPAR, possibly a CF LPAR etc. ROT for the number of physical vs. logical processors is about 1:5. Kees. For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
Thanks for all the responses here and offline. Here are some answers to questions about our environment: - The 2096-T01 is our only processor. We are running z/OS 1.11. - We do not currently use sub-capacity processing. We do not submit monthly SCRT reports. - The T01 runs at 100% every night for 10 hours. - The IMS address space and MPRs are up from 6AM-8PM daily. These address spaces average LT 3% utilization during this time. The peak for a 30 minute interval is almost always under 5%. - There is a small amount batch IMS during the nightly cycle (after 8PM). - We run IMS TM/DM. Some IMS TM also use DB2. - We currently use CA-MIM when the TECH LPAR is up - not GRS. - IMS DM and TM are currently under EWLC pricing. The main IMS application is critical to our business. It is not scheduled to be replaced for at least 5 years. Several folks commented off-line that if we only use a single CEC there is no possibility of savings. Planning for Sub-capacity Pricing on z/OS indicates the sub-capacity pricing metric operates at the LPAR level. I did not see anything about CEC limitations. Did I miss something? Are there any small shops out there that have been successful at controlling IMS costs by creating a separate 'IMS LPAR'? Thanks for the responses. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
> I'm guessing your definition of acceptable performance is different than > mine. Probably not. As techos we want the "latest and greatest" with the best "speeds and feeds". Having dealt with a few smaller shops, I'm just reconciled to the fact that not all customers are prepared to pay for the privilege. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
>Seems likely they will run predominantly as 2 (active) system even with the >new LPAR. >Performance impacts can be mitigated. I don't believe so, based on my experience. Even an 'inactive' system, if running, has to participate in the ring for every toss of the GRS token. Anything over two systems will degrade. We went to GRS* as soon as we could because of that and we had 'inactive' systems in the ring. I'm guessing your definition of acceptable performance is different than mine. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
> >If you already have GRS ring, adding a system won't be too big a deal. > > That's true only if performance doesn't matter. Rubbish. Performance matters to everyone - GRS ring users included. If they already have a ring, they already have a handle on 2 system impacts when they bring up the sandpit. Seems likely they will run predominantly as 2 (active) system even with the new LPAR. Performance impacts can be mitigated. If they can be made acceptable, ring (or base sysplex) can be a good cheap answer. Maybe not the best, but possibly acceptable none-the-less. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
>If you already have GRS ring, adding a system won't be too big a deal. That's true only if performance doesn't matter. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
Anybody asked *why* you need a sysplex at all ?. Not that I'm against it, a base sysplex seems an eminent fit You currently fire up 2 LPARs - let's hope you use GRS (lots of small sites think they can be careful enough not to need it for a sandbox ...). If you already have GRS ring, adding a system won't be too big a deal. Likewise an upgrade to base sysplex. If you can isolate (HCD) all the disk for all systems, no need for anything. I prefer they can't even be seen by other systems, but people always want to "sneak" volumes online to two or more systems so they can move stuff over. Your gun, your foot ... Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
>Most forms of 'data sharing' in the DB2 sense (I don't know about IMS) require >CF structures. There are two structures IMS must have. One is a VSAM extent map. The second is locks (I think). There are optional ones for shared queues, iirc. - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
As others have said, you do not need a coupling facility to run a sysplex. We have a 'basic sysplex' with three members that communicate via CTC. Sharable functions are quite limited, however. Most forms of 'data sharing' in the DB2 sense (I don't know about IMS) require CF structures. Furthermore, to qualify for PSLC across two or more CECs, you *must* have a true parallel sysplex, i.e. common CF structures. I don't understand 'MLC' and how running IMS in two LPARs on the same CEC would have money over running in only one LPAR. But if 'sysplex' is all that's required for savings, then CTC connections will suffice. . . JO.Skip Robinson SCE Infrastructure Technology Services Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 626-302-7535 Office 323-715-0595 Mobile jo.skip.robin...@sce.com From: John Thinnes To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Date: 05/18/2011 01:53 PM Subject:Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List In order to save on IMS MLC charges (uses about 3%), we are investigating adding a second 'IMS LPAR' to our configuration (on same CEC). Currently we are running a 2096-T01. We run a production LPAR and occasionally a TECH sandbox LPAR. In 2012 we may be looking at replacing the T01 with a 2 engine z10 or z196 box. When I was discussing these plans with our IBM business partner, they indicated to run a SYSPLEX, we were going to needed to have a Coupling Facility - and that the CF engine was rather expensive. I had been reviewing the MVS Setting up a SYSPLEX manual. I am probably being dense, but it is not obvious that a CF is required. Are there any little z/OS shops out there doing this? Is a CF required? Is there any other special hardware or software required. We already run with XCF, WLM and LOGR datasets. I did see info in the archives in the 2009 thread 'how to - sysplex'. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
John Thinnes wrote: In order to save on IMS MLC charges (uses about 3%), we are investigating adding a second 'IMS LPAR' to our configuration (on same CEC). Currently we are running a 2096-T01. We run a production LPAR and occasionally a TECH sandbox LPAR. In 2012 we may be looking at replacing the T01 with a 2 engine z10 or z196 box. When I was discussing these plans with our IBM business partner, they indicated to run a SYSPLEX, we were going to needed to have a Coupling Facility - and that the CF engine was rather expensive. No. You can run a basic sysplex using only CTCs. I had been reviewing the MVS Setting up a SYSPLEX manual. I am probably being dense, but it is not obvious that a CF is required. Are there any little z/OS shops out there doing this? Is a CF required? Is there any other special hardware or software required. We already run with XCF, WLM and LOGR datasets. We have been doing precisely this for a few years on a 3-engine z9. Our smaller, capped LPAR runs pretty much only CICS and DB2 in support of a single application. (We share very little data between the LPARs.) The money saved with sub-capacity licensing for those two products is significant. I did see info in the archives in the 2009 thread 'how to - sysplex'. Bob -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
John, Your z9 already has an internal coupling links and theoretically you can run a CF lpar in your z9. Since you have a single engine T01, IBM warns against doing this. You may want to check with your IBM business partner about getting sub-capacity pricing for IMS. You would pay for the amount of usage of IMS as opposed to monthly licensing fees. If you have a CF, it will likely take about a large a machine as you currently have to run it. Ernie. "John Thinnes" wrote in message news: ... In order to save on IMS MLC charges (uses about 3%), we are investigating adding a second 'IMS LPAR' to our configuration (on same CEC). Currently we are running a 2096-T01. We run a production LPAR and occasionally a TECH sandbox LPAR. In 2012 we may be looking at replacing the T01 with a 2 engine z10 or z196 box. When I was discussing these plans with our IBM business partner, they indicated to run a SYSPLEX, we were going to needed to have a Coupling Facility - and that the CF engine was rather expensive. I had been reviewing the MVS Setting up a SYSPLEX manual. I am probably being dense, but it is not obvious that a CF is required. Are there any little z/OS shops out there doing this? Is a CF required? Is there any other special hardware or software required. We already run with XCF, WLM and LOGR datasets. I did see info in the archives in the 2009 thread 'how to - sysplex'. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running a SYSPLEX - what's needed
A CF absolutely *NOT REEQUIRED*. It is only *HIGHLY DESIRABLE* . A SYSPLEX can be implemented with only XCF (over CTC). I speak from experience. I am doing this today. There are many functions available with a CF that will have to be forgone (e.g. VTAM persistent nodes, HSM common recall queue, IRLM,...) However, it does function at the cost of performance. HTH, In 2012 we may be looking at replacing the T01 with a 2 engine z10 or z196 box. When I was discussing these plans with our IBM business partner, they indicated to run a SYSPLEX, we were going to needed to have a Coupling Facility - and that the CF engine was rather expensive. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
