Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Farley, Peter x23353 > > -Original Message- > > > > > > > http://dtsc.dfw.ibm.com/MVSDS/'HTTPD2.ADCD.GLOBAL.HTML(READM11S)' > > > AC/DC annual updates. > > > This URI doesn't work. > > Add the trailing quote and it works OK. The mail client didn't include that quote in the URI for some > reason. Ahh. . . . That does make the difference. Still downright CHEAP compared to the P/390 offering. :-) Still out of my reach. :-( -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 7:49 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop > > http://dtsc.dfw.ibm.com/MVSDS/'HTTPD2.ADCD.GLOBAL.HTML(READM11S)' > > AC/DC annual updates. > This URI doesn't work. Add the trailing quote and it works OK. The mail client didn't include that quote in the URI for some reason. Peter -- This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the message and any attachments from your system. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Field, Alan C. > > More like $US2330. The AUD is worth more than the USD now (www.xe.com). Yep, and "The FED" (Federal Reserve Bank), the world's only "approved" counterfeiter of US currency, is trying hard to make the USD completely worthless. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Mike Schwab > > http://www.p390.com/pdf/zPDTPricingSheet120209.pdf > is the prices for the hardware, dongle, and software discs. Compared to the 1996 pricing on a P/390, even the L3 offering here is "CHEAP". Still beyond my individual means, though. > http://dtsc.dfw.ibm.com/MVSDS/'HTTPD2.ADCD.GLOBAL.HTML(READM11S)' > AC/DC annual updates. This URI doesn't work. -jc- -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
poodles...@sbcglobal.net (Dan Skomsky, PSTI) writes: > It is obvious IBM has a different direction they are pursuing. I have > been re-hosting CICS applications onto Windows platforms for over ten > years. From what I have seen, all the smaller accounts have been > converted with only the "Big Boys" left. But even they are wavering > today. It is only a matter of time... i remember Amdahl giving a talk at MIT in the early 70s ... and somebody asked him what justification did he use to get investment in his new clone processor company. His reply was that IBM customers had already invested enormous amount on 360/370 software and even if IBM were to completely walk away from 370 (might be considered a veiled reference to Future System effort which was completely different from 370 and in fact was killing off potentially competitive internal 370 projects in progress), that software base was sufficient to keep him in business through the end of the century. misc. past posts mentioning future system http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys The Future System period is credited with giving the clone processors a foothold in the market ... having killed off internal 370 competitive efforts, when Future System failed, there was a mad rush to get stuff back into the 370 product pipelines. I had continued to do 370 stuff during the period ... and the mad rush likely contributed to decision to release various of things I had been doing. In the 23jun69 unbundling announcement, there was start to charge for application software ... but they managed to make the case that kernel software should still be free. However, in the aftermath of Future System failure and clone processors in the market place, there was a decision to transition to (also) charge for kernel software. One of my things that was being released was my (dynamic adaptive) resource manager ... and it was selected to be initial guinea pig for kernel software charging ... and I got to spend a lot of time with legal and business people regarding kernel software charging policies. misc. past posts mentioning unbundling http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#unbundle A decade later, a senior disk engineer got a talk scheduled at the annual, world-wide, internal communication group talk and opened it with statement that the communication group was going to be responsible for the demise of the disk division. The issue was that the communication group had a stranglehold on the datacenters and large amount of mainframe data was starting to flee to more distributed computing friendly platforms. Many of the "big boys" spent billions on "re-engineering" projects (moving off mainframes) in the 90s that failed. many of them were using technology that looked marvelous in demos but failed miserably to scaleup (and may have worked for smaller operations). at least a couple years ago those failures (in the 90s) were still damping the appetite to try it again soon (somewhat analogous to the dark shadow that the FS failure cast over IBM for decades). -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
On 16 May 2011 20:03, John McKown wrote: > Oh, well, personally, I like the ARM architecture. But it is very > fragmented right now. I have an architecture book on ARM v6. And much of > it has the note of "IMPLEMENTATION DEFINED" on things which are not > specifically mandated. I think this is because ARM is used from small > embedded systems to things like smartphone and now iPAD and tablets. > There are also a lot of things are marked UNPREDICTABLE. Who knows what > that will do? Not guaranteed to do anything in particular. Might cause > an exception, or a hardware failure, or ??? . Very weird. Makes the z > architecture look like it was designed by a super-genius. Or somebody > with OCD. . A very quick look at the zArch POO finds around 170 occurences of the word "unpredictable". And that is a very good thing; IBM has always been very clear about what unpredictable means, and they don't use the word lightly. Certainly unpredictable does not include "causing hardware failure". Whether other hardware makers use it more casually, I don't know, but I suspect they do. Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
On Mon, 2011-05-16 at 18:33 -0500, Paul Gilmartin wrote: > On Mon, 16 May 2011 18:12:18 -0500, Dan Skomsky, PSTI wrote: > > >I know it isn't perfect, but Hercules with MVS 3.8J doesn't look too bad > >when you consider the cost, free. The combo runs just fine on a laptop even > >using MS VPC 2K7 to hold the Hercules guest O/S. > > > A few unanswerable questions: > > How much does IBM spend to support and enhance z/OS? > > How much does IBM spend to support and enhance Linux for z? > > Is IBM motivated to retain its mainframe customers on z/OS? > > -- gil I can't answer any of those reliably. But I don't see much emphasis on the z hardware and associated software at all, compared to Intel based. Which is stupid, IMO. But "you go where the money is". z hardware and software is only cost justifiable for larger companies any more. And I'd bet that z planners are betting on z/Linux under z/VM for the virtualization potential. In the past, I was on an iSeries forum. They had the same complaints as we post here - apparent lack of interest and support for the i. A "cash cow" mentality. Most companies are "Windows weenies" and simply do not seem to know any better. Like the "spreadsheet gurus" who think that they are world class programmers because they can use a formula in a cell. So they __know__ that the IT department programmers are idiots who are just goofing off when they should be working. Oh, well, personally, I like the ARM architecture. But it is very fragmented right now. I have an architecture book on ARM v6. And much of it has the note of "IMPLEMENTATION DEFINED" on things which are not specifically mandated. I think this is because ARM is used from small embedded systems to things like smartphone and now iPAD and tablets. There are also a lot of things are marked UNPREDICTABLE. Who knows what that will do? Not guaranteed to do anything in particular. Might cause an exception, or a hardware failure, or ??? . Very weird. Makes the z architecture look like it was designed by a super-genius. Or somebody with OCD. . -- John McKown Maranatha! <>< -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
It is obvious IBM has a different direction they are pursuing. I have been re-hosting CICS applications onto Windows platforms for over ten years. >From what I have seen, all the smaller accounts have been converted with only the "Big Boys" left. But even they are wavering today. It is only a matter of time... -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 6:40 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop >Is IBM motivated to retain its mainframe customers on z/OS? I used to believe they were! Now? - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
>Is IBM motivated to retain its mainframe customers on z/OS? I used to believe they were! Now? - Ted MacNEIL eamacn...@yahoo.ca Twitter: @TedMacNEIL -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
On Mon, 16 May 2011 18:12:18 -0500, Dan Skomsky, PSTI wrote: >I know it isn't perfect, but Hercules with MVS 3.8J doesn't look too bad >when you consider the cost, free. The combo runs just fine on a laptop even >using MS VPC 2K7 to hold the Hercules guest O/S. > A few unanswerable questions: How much does IBM spend to support and enhance z/OS? How much does IBM spend to support and enhance Linux for z? Is IBM motivated to retain its mainframe customers on z/OS? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
I know it isn't perfect, but Hercules with MVS 3.8J doesn't look too bad when you consider the cost, free. The combo runs just fine on a laptop even using MS VPC 2K7 to hold the Hercules guest O/S. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Eric Bielefeld Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 10:18 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Running z/OS On Your Laptop I think there was a discussion about running z/OS on your laptop or other PC recently. There is an IBM 2 day workshop on that topic coming up on June 28. Unfortuneatly, it's in Melbourne, Australia. Shane - maybe you're interested. The link is: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/workshops/GR0422?Open -- Eric Bielefeld Systems Programmer -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
It doesn't look like you come away with much at all: Day 1 : is a very detailed lecture (and demonstrations) of zPDT and a little z/OS. No student RDzUT or tokens or disks are involved. If students have a laptop with (1) wireless connection and (2) a 3270 emulator, they may connect to my zPDT system and log onto TSO. There is usually much discussion about capacity and performance. Students should have a little Linux background and some z/OS skills in order to understand the lecture. Day 2 : has the students (or student teams) installing Linux, zPDT, and z/OS. It does not involve RDzUT. We can do some basic networking to allow the various student z/OS systems to communicate with each other. So on day 1 you basically connect to the lecturer's zPDT and no RDzUT tokens or disks are involved (is this a dongle or similar device?). Day 2 is an install of zPDT and z/OS perhaps this is on the lecturers machine? Been trying for a few years now to get IBM to come up with a Flex replacement and the zPDT still seems overpriced for small developers or students. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 6:27 AM, Steve Comstock wrote: > On 5/16/2011 2:11 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >> >> On Tue, 17 May 2011 06:04:43 +1000, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: >> >>> They are charging $2200 for a two day workshop! >>> >> That's a fraction of what z/OS costs otherwise. >> >> Do participants get to keep it? >> http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/workshops/GR0422?Open >> >> -- gil > > > Excellent question, and the write up is ambiguous. > > Note it says "It produces a System z environment on > an Intel-compatible computer, capable of running > z/OS, z/VM, z/VSE or Linux for System z." So maybe > you walk away with the environment but no OS. > > Partnerworld members can get the OS, though. > > > -- > > Kind regards, > > -Steve Comstock > The Trainer's Friend, Inc. > > 303-393-8716 > http://www.trainersfriend.com > > * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! > + Training your people is an excellent investment > > * Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment > for training dollars at > http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- Wayne V. Bickerdike -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
LOL - I don't think so. Would take a lot more than that is offering to convince me to fork out my hard earned to go to Melbourne at this time of year. Shane ... On Tue, May 17th, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Eric Bielefeld wrote: > I think there was a discussion about running z/OS on your laptop or other > PC recently. There is an IBM 2 day workshop on that topic coming up on > June 28. Unfortuneatly, it's in Melbourne, Australia. Shane - maybe > you're interested. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
Steve, I think you need to update your exchange rates. AUD$2200 is around US$2328. Ron > > On 5/16/2011 2:04 PM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: > > They are charging $2200 for a two day workshop! > > That's Australian dollars, though. About USD 2077. Per > person. Yup, a little pricey. If we had such a course, > we would charge around USD 500 per person, maybe a little > more. _But_, we don't have such a course. :-) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
On 5/16/2011 2:30 PM, Field, Alan C. wrote: More like $US2330. The AUD is worth more than the USD now (www.xe.com). Ah, yes, you're right. I was using http://finance.yahoo.com/currency-converter but worked in the wrong direction. Just like our illustrious leaders wanted, I'm sure. :-) Thanks. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 15:25 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop On 5/16/2011 2:04 PM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: They are charging $2200 for a two day workshop! That's Australian dollars, though. About USD 2077. Per person. Yup, a little pricey. If we had such a course, we would charge around USD 500 per person, maybe a little more. _But_, we don't have such a course. :-) On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Eric Bielefeld wrote: I think there was a discussion about running z/OS on your laptop or other PC recently. There is an IBM 2 day workshop on that topic coming up on June 28. Unfortuneatly, it's in Melbourne, Australia. Shane - maybe you're interested. The link is: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/workshops/GR0422?Open -- Eric Bielefeld Systems Programmer -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
More like $US2330. The AUD is worth more than the USD now (www.xe.com). -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Steve Comstock Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 15:25 To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop On 5/16/2011 2:04 PM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: > They are charging $2200 for a two day workshop! That's Australian dollars, though. About USD 2077. Per person. Yup, a little pricey. If we had such a course, we would charge around USD 500 per person, maybe a little more. _But_, we don't have such a course. :-) > > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Eric Bielefeld wrote: >> I think there was a discussion about running z/OS on your laptop or other PC recently. There is an IBM 2 day workshop on that topic coming up on June 28. Unfortuneatly, it's in Melbourne, Australia. Shane - maybe you're interested. >> >> The link is: >> >> http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/workshops/GR0422?Open >> >> -- >> Eric Bielefeld >> Systems Programmer -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
On 5/16/2011 2:11 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote: On Tue, 17 May 2011 06:04:43 +1000, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: They are charging $2200 for a two day workshop! That's a fraction of what z/OS costs otherwise. Do participants get to keep it? http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/workshops/GR0422?Open -- gil Excellent question, and the write up is ambiguous. Note it says "It produces a System z environment on an Intel-compatible computer, capable of running z/OS, z/VM, z/VSE or Linux for System z." So maybe you walk away with the environment but no OS. Partnerworld members can get the OS, though. -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
On 5/16/2011 2:04 PM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: They are charging $2200 for a two day workshop! That's Australian dollars, though. About USD 2077. Per person. Yup, a little pricey. If we had such a course, we would charge around USD 500 per person, maybe a little more. _But_, we don't have such a course. :-) On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Eric Bielefeld wrote: I think there was a discussion about running z/OS on your laptop or other PC recently. There is an IBM 2 day workshop on that topic coming up on June 28. Unfortuneatly, it's in Melbourne, Australia. Shane - maybe you're interested. The link is: http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/workshops/GR0422?Open -- Eric Bielefeld Systems Programmer -- Kind regards, -Steve Comstock The Trainer's Friend, Inc. 303-393-8716 http://www.trainersfriend.com * To get a good Return on your Investment, first make an investment! + Training your people is an excellent investment * Try our new tool for calculating your Return On Investment for training dollars at http://www.trainersfriend.com/ROI/roi.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
http://www.p390.com/pdf/zPDTPricingSheet120209.pdf is the prices for the hardware, dongle, and software discs. http://dtsc.dfw.ibm.com/MVSDS/'HTTPD2.ADCD.GLOBAL.HTML(READM11S)' AC/DC annual updates. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 3:04 PM, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: > They are charging $2200 for a two day workshop! > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Eric Bielefeld > wrote: >> I think there was a discussion about running z/OS on your laptop or other PC >> recently. There is an IBM 2 day workshop on that topic coming up on June >> 28. Unfortuneatly, it's in Melbourne, Australia. Shane - maybe you're >> interested. >> >> The link is: >> >> http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/workshops/GR0422?Open >> >> -- >> Eric Bielefeld >> Systems Programmer -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
On Tue, 17 May 2011 06:04:43 +1000, Wayne Bickerdike wrote: >They are charging $2200 for a two day workshop! > That's a fraction of what z/OS costs otherwise. Do participants get to keep it? >> http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/workshops/GR0422?Open -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: Running z/OS On Your Laptop
They are charging $2200 for a two day workshop! On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 1:17 AM, Eric Bielefeld wrote: > I think there was a discussion about running z/OS on your laptop or other PC > recently. There is an IBM 2 day workshop on that topic coming up on June 28. > Unfortuneatly, it's in Melbourne, Australia. Shane - maybe you're > interested. > > The link is: > > http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/workshops/GR0422?Open > > -- > Eric Bielefeld > Systems Programmer > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- Wayne V. Bickerdike -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
