Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In
<624206278-1264692422-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-3344620...@bda026.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>,
on 01/28/2010
   at 03:27 PM, Ted MacNEIL  said:

>Why is that not likely?
>I've always allowed it.

And of course the world revolves around you. Whether it is likely depends
on what a lot of shops do, not just yours.

>Most of the time, I've found people don't take the effort to
>change/control management classes. This is proof that you've addressed
>their needs adequately.

ROTF,LMAO! It's proof that management hasn't imposed change control, and
nothing more.

-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ted MacNEIL]

>I'd be interested to know in your conversions from PDSEs to PDSs, how you 
>converted library objects to load modules?

I thought I mentioned it in a previous post.
We converted what we could, and left the rest.
There were some that could NOT be converted, which displeased our MVS Team.

We also stopped sharing, making multiple copies (1 per LPAR), which also 
reduced the chances of hitting one of the integrity problems (this I didn't 
mention, before).
-
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Guy Gardoit]

I'd be interested to know in your conversions from PDSEs to PDSs, how you
converted library objects to load modules?

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 8:02 AM, Ted MacNEIL  wrote:

> >And I asked you to elaborate what you thought the problems were
> related specifically to non-SMS PDSEs vs. SMS controlled.
> >So far, I haven't heard any.
>
> I'm sorry I dropped the phrase non-SMS.
>
> >Were the problems you refer to above related specifically to non-SMS
> PDSEs, or PDSEs in general?  I don't think any one will argue that there
> have been issues with PDSE in general - especially in the not too distant
> past.
>
>
> They were specifically non-SMS PDSE's, at our installation.
> It got to the point where we were going to start removing SMS-Managed, as
> well.
> But, that was more of an over-reaction on the part of the MVS lead.
> Unfortunately, due to the blame-storming approach we had to assign all
> outages/problems to somebody.
> That made their department come up all the time in post mortems.
>
> But, non-SMS PDSE's left a bad taste in everybody's mouth.
>
> -
> Too busy driving to stop for gas!
>
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ted MacNEIL]

>And I asked you to elaborate what you thought the problems were
related specifically to non-SMS PDSEs vs. SMS controlled.
>So far, I haven't heard any. 

I'm sorry I dropped the phrase non-SMS.

>Were the problems you refer to above related specifically to non-SMS
PDSEs, or PDSEs in general?  I don't think any one will argue that there
have been issues with PDSE in general - especially in the not too distant
past.   


They were specifically non-SMS PDSE's, at our installation.
It got to the point where we were going to start removing SMS-Managed, as well.
But, that was more of an over-reaction on the part of the MVS lead.
Unfortunately, due to the blame-storming approach we had to assign all 
outages/problems to somebody.
That made their department come up all the time in post mortems.

But, non-SMS PDSE's left a bad taste in everybody's mouth.

-
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Mark Zelden]

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:30:41 +, Ted MacNEIL  wrote:

>>Large parts of the OS are delivered and run from non-SMS PDSE these
>days.
>>How much of an issue can it be?
>
>We had a lot of integrity an broken code a couple of years ago.
>And, it took a long time to get it fixed.
>We ended up converting a lot of PDSE files back to PDS.
>Yes. We were current.
>For us, it was a big issue.
>
>I've had a hard time trusting them, since.
>And, I was a big proponent of converting to PDSE, when they first came.
>-

You've changed the subject of the debate.  You wrote:

>>Also, there are many issues with non-SMS PDSE's.

And I asked you to elaborate what you thought the problems were
related specifically to non-SMS PDSEs vs. SMS controlled.  So far,
I haven't heard any. 

Were the problems you refer to above related specifically to non-SMS
PDSEs, or PDSEs in general?  I don't think any one will argue that there
have been issues with PDSE in general - especially in the not too distant
past.   

Mark
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ted MacNEIL]

>Large parts of the OS are delivered and run from non-SMS PDSE these
days.
>How much of an issue can it be?

We had a lot of integrity an broken code a couple of years ago.
And, it took a long time to get it fixed.
We ended up converting a lot of PDSE files back to PDS.
Yes. We were current.
For us, it was a big issue.

I've had a hard time trusting them, since.
And, I was a big proponent of converting to PDSE, when they first came.
-
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ron Hawkins]

Because some sites code the ACS routines to null the classes in the ALLOC
environment and disallow user specified classes. 

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of
> Ted MacNEIL
> Sent: Friday, January 29, 2010 3:45 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
> 
> >A better choice of words might have been Your storage admin may have
coded
> the acs routine to accept a management class value passed in via jcl but
don't
> count on it.
> 
> Still begs the same question.
> Why not?
> -
> Too busy driving to stop for gas!
> 
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[R.S.]

W dniu 2010-01-29 12:45, Ted MacNEIL pisze:

A better choice of words might have been Your storage admin may have coded the 
acs routine to accept a management class value passed in via jcl but don't 
count on it.


Still begs the same question.
Why not?


Because 90% users has very little idea about management classes - what 
is it for, etc. Even quite experienced folks do not feel it.


Such MGMTCLASS can be assigned *by mistake* i.e. using P.3.2 allocation 
panels in ISPF (just leave previous values). I remember 
Very_Important_Consultant which DEMANDED asuch privilege (to assign 
MGMTCLASS). Two days later he created some Very_Important_PDS. 
Unfortunately he was watching some "scratch-pad" dataset before that. So 
the Very_Important_PDS was deleted at 5am, no backup was done. 
Everything according to MC definitions.


The same could appy to MCIMP60 and HLQ.ANY.VERY.IMP.REPORT - Maybe IMP60 
is the key - 60 days ...or months.



--
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Lodz, Poland


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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[R.S.]

W dniu 2010-01-28 16:27, Ted MacNEIL pisze:

Your storage admin may have coded the acs routine to accept a management class 
value passed in via jcl but not likely.


Why is that not likely?
I've always allowed it.


I never allow it, I also teach why people should avoid that. Of course 
some exception could apply (i.e. PWRUSR group).




Especially, since you can over-ride it with IDCAMS.


Unless it is protected.



Most of the time, I've found people don't take the effort to change/control 
management classes.


Sometimes people try to assign MGMT class by mistake. BTDT. That's why 
they are not allowed to do it (very first reason, but not last).



This is proof that you've addressed their needs adequately.

Agreed.

Regards
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland


--
BRE Bank SA
ul. Senatorska 18
00-950 Warszawa
www.brebank.pl

Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy 
XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, 
nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237

NIP: 526-021-50-88
Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2009 r. kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA (w całości 
wpłacony) wynosi 118.763.528 złotych. W związku z realizacją warunkowego 
podwyższenia kapitału zakładowego, na podstawie uchwały XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 
2008r., oraz uchwały XVI NWZ z dnia 27 października 2008r., może ulec 
podwyższeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 zł. Akcje w podwyższonym kapitale zakładowym 
BRE Banku SA będą w całości opłacone.

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ted MacNEIL]

>A better choice of words might have been Your storage admin may have coded the 
>acs routine to accept a management class value passed in via jcl but don't 
>count on it.

Still begs the same question.
Why not?
-
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Mark Zelden]

On Thu, 28 Jan 2010 21:34:53 +, Ted MacNEIL  wrote:

>>>Also, there are many issues with non-SMS PDSE's.
>
>>Care to elaborate on what you think those issues are?
>
>
>There is the buffering/potential corruption of shared PDSE's.

Nothing to do with SMS vs. NON-SMS PDSE.

>The 100's of PTF's that came out a few years ago.

Nothing to do with SMS vs. NON-SMS PDSE.   There have been many
PTFS, but you can say that for any component (how about SMSVSAM
for example).  The actual support for non-SMS PDSE was only a few
PTFs.

>And, the separate code streams to manage them within and without SMS.
>

Only IBM can answer that,  if there is some specific dual path code for
PDSE to check if it is SMS managed or not, I still don't see that as
an issue.  The OS is full of dual code paths for various reasons and
that doesn't make it a "issue".

Large parts of the OS are delivered and run from non-SMS PDSE these
days.  How much of an issue can it be?

Mark
--
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ted MacNEIL]

>>Also, there are many issues with non-SMS PDSE's.

>Care to elaborate on what you think those issues are?


There is the buffering/potential corruption of shared PDSE's.
The 100's of PTF's that came out a few years ago.
And, the separate code streams to manage them within and without SMS.

Aside from those, nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I was a big fan of them when they first came out.
-
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[John Kington]

>>Your storage admin may have coded the acs routine to accept a management 
>>class value passed in via jcl but not likely.

>Why is that not likely?
>I've always allowed it.
>Especially, since you can over-ride it with IDCAMS.
>Most of the time, I've found people don't take the effort to change/control 
>management classes.
>This is proof that you've addressed their needs adequately.

A better choice of words might have been Your storage admin may have coded the 
acs routine to accept a management class value passed in via jcl but don't 
count on it.

Regards,
John

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ted MacNEIL]

>Your storage admin may have coded the acs routine to accept a management class 
>value passed in via jcl but not likely.

Why is that not likely?
I've always allowed it.
Especially, since you can over-ride it with IDCAMS.
Most of the time, I've found people don't take the effort to change/control 
management classes.
This is proof that you've addressed their needs adequately.

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ted MacNEIL]

Manage it, or run into problems.
There is NO need for partial release on close!
There is NO need for non-SMS managed data.
Anything is too expensive!
IMO.

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

-Original Message-
From: Hal Merritt 
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:50:54 
To: 
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

Beats me. My SMS guy is pretty sharp. I could ask, but I'm not sure I'd 
understand the answer :-) 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Schwarz, Barry A
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 3:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

When did they come up with non-SMS storage groups?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Hal Merritt
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

Thanks all for the great information!!

We have elected to use a storage group that is not SMS managed so that the 
management class release does not apply.

 
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Mark Zelden]

On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 22:20:35 +, Ted MacNEIL  wrote:

>Also, there are many issues with non-SMS PDSE's.

Care to elaborate on what you think those issues are?

Mark
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ed Finnell]

 
In a message dated 1/27/2010 3:42:39 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
barry.a.schw...@boeing.com writes:

When did they come up with non-SMS storage  groups?


>>
PUB,PRIV, STOR??? VATLSTnn...




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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ted MacNEIL]

>We have elected to use a storage group that is not SMS managed so that the 
>management class release does not apply. 

That is not necessarily a good choice!
Rather, you should use SMS as much as possible to reduce your time and cost 
having non-storage types managing storage.
You'd be better served getting the management class changed.
Also, there are many issues with non-SMS PDSE's.
-
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ron Hawkins]

LOL. I've used it as a pseudo Storage Group. Ask for STORCLAS=NONSMS and you
don't get a Storage Class.

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of
> Schwarz, Barry A
> Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 1:41 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
> 
> When did they come up with non-SMS storage groups?
> 

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Hal Merritt]

Beats me. My SMS guy is pretty sharp. I could ask, but I'm not sure I'd 
understand the answer :-) 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Schwarz, Barry A
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 3:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

When did they come up with non-SMS storage groups?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Hal Merritt
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

Thanks all for the great information!!

We have elected to use a storage group that is not SMS managed so that the 
management class release does not apply.

 
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Schwarz, Barry A]

When did they come up with non-SMS storage groups?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Hal Merritt
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

Thanks all for the great information!!

We have elected to use a storage group that is not SMS managed so that the 
management class release does not apply.

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Hal Merritt]

Thanks all for the great information!! 

We have elected to use a storage group that is not SMS managed so that the 
management class release does not apply. 

Again, thanks!!


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
Hal Merritt
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:30 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

I have a C application program that creates members in a PDSe that is allocated 
new and empty at the beginning of the job by an IEFBR14 step.

Since the program repeatedly opens and closes the PDSe, I can watch the space 
allocation via ISPF 3.4. To our concernation, the allocated space shrinks as 
the number of exents rises. No matter how  much space we specify, the file 
shrinks and eventually the program fails with an E37-04 (no more space on 
volume).

I'm guessing that somehow, somewhere, something is causing the effect of a 
space release upon every close. I am uncertian as to what to ask the programmer 
about his program, but I feel like that's the root of my problem.

Thoughts?

Thanks!!



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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[John Kelly]

Now, how do I override that? Is there a JCL parameter? 


As other have said, use a different MgmtClas (MC) is you can or make the 
PDSe nonSMS and piss off everyone. Lots of time you can't allocate with a 
different MC but you can ALTER the DSN after it's allocated.
Jack Kelly
202-502-2390 (Office)

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[John Kington]

>Good answer :-)
>
>Now, how do I override that? Is there a JCL parameter?

I used release immediate on a management class *once* and quickly changed it. 
Your storage admin may have coded the acs routine to accept a management class 
value passed in via jcl but not likely. You can use idcams alter to change the 
management class to get around it quickly but you will need to work with your 
storage admin to remove the immediate release from the management class or 
assign a different management class to your PDSE. Re-allocating the PDSE 
without either change will get you back to where you are.
Regards,
John

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Chase, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin
> 
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:43:59 -0800, Ron Hawkins wrote:
> >
> >If your Storage Admin has PDS and/or PDS-E in a Management Class with
> >Partial Release =YES_IMMED then make sure you beat him/her around the
head a
> >few times with a baseball bat.
> >
> >What a stupid thing to do.
> >
> Could this be realated to PK64372?  Or is it even stupider?

???

  APAR Identifier .. PK64372  Last Changed  10/01/11
  NEW FUNCTION
 
 
  Symptom .. IN INCORROUT Status ... OPEN
  Severity ... 4  Date Closed .
  Component .. 568819805  Duplicate of 
  Reported Release . 730  Fixed Release 
  Component Name LE C LIBRARY Special Notice
  Current Target Date ..10/03/26  Flags
  SCP ...
  Platform 
 
  Status Detail: REVIEW - APAR solution is being reviewed.
 
  PE PTF List:
 
  PTF List:
 
 
  Parent APAR:
  Child APAR list:
 
 
  ERROR DESCRIPTION:
  NEW FUNCTION
 
 
  LOCAL FIX:

Or is the absence of any information the point?

-jc-

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ron Hawkins]

Gil,

If the behavior is because of the Management Class then it's working as
designed and Stupid is with the Storage Admin.

If I read the threads on this PK64372 correctly, and Release is specified on
close no matter what is specified in JCL or Management Class then stupid is
with IBM.

I use to have this problem with SAS Version 6 datasets, where SAS opened,
closed, and reopened a new file. SPACE was released down to zero and SAS
EXCP would issue the next IO outside of the extent. Nasty IO errors and
Pinned data were the result, and a new Management Class for SAS datasets was
the fix.

Ron

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of
> Paul Gilmartin
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 5:46 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
> 
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:43:59 -0800, Ron Hawkins wrote:
> >
> >If your Storage Admin has PDS and/or PDS-E in a Management Class with
> >Partial Release =YES_IMMED then make sure you beat him/her around the
head a
> >few times with a baseball bat.
> >
> >What a stupid thing to do.
> >
> Could this be realated to PK64372?  Or is it even stupider?
> 
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> >> > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
> >> >
> >> > I have a C application program that creates members in a PDSe
> >> > that is allocated new and empty at the beginning of the job
> >> > by an IEFBR14 step.
> >> >
> >> > Since the program repeatedly opens and closes the PDSe, I can
> >> > watch the space allocation via ISPF 3.4. To our concernation,
> >> > the allocated space shrinks as the number of exents rises. No
> >> > matter how  much space we specify, the file shrinks and
> >> > eventually the program fails with an E37-04 (no more space on
volume).
> 
> -- gil
> 
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:43:59 -0800, Ron Hawkins wrote:
>
>If your Storage Admin has PDS and/or PDS-E in a Management Class with
>Partial Release =YES_IMMED then make sure you beat him/her around the head a
>few times with a baseball bat.
>
>What a stupid thing to do.
>
Could this be realated to PK64372?  Or is it even stupider?

>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
>> > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
>> >
>> > I have a C application program that creates members in a PDSe
>> > that is allocated new and empty at the beginning of the job
>> > by an IEFBR14 step.
>> >
>> > Since the program repeatedly opens and closes the PDSe, I can
>> > watch the space allocation via ISPF 3.4. To our concernation,
>> > the allocated space shrinks as the number of exents rises. No
>> > matter how  much space we specify, the file shrinks and
>> > eventually the program fails with an E37-04 (no more space on volume).

-- gil

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ron Hawkins]

Hal,

If your Storage Admin has PDS and/or PDS-E in a Management Class with
Partial Release =YES_IMMED then make sure you beat him/her around the head a
few times with a baseball bat. 

What a stupid thing to do.

Ron

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On
Behalf Of
> McKown, John
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 12:39 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
> > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
> > Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:30 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> > Subject: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
> >
> > I have a C application program that creates members in a PDSe
> > that is allocated new and empty at the beginning of the job
> > by an IEFBR14 step.
> >
> > Since the program repeatedly opens and closes the PDSe, I can
> > watch the space allocation via ISPF 3.4. To our concernation,
> > the allocated space shrinks as the number of exents rises. No
> > matter how  much space we specify, the file shrinks and
> > eventually the program fails with an E37-04 (no more space on volume).
> >
> > I'm guessing that somehow, somewhere, something is causing
> > the effect of a space release upon every close. I am
> > uncertian as to what to ask the programmer about his program,
> > but I feel like that's the root of my problem.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks!!
> 
> Possibly your ACS MGMTCLAS has an "Partial Release" set to YES_IMMEDIATE.
In
> that case, the first close will release all unused space. You then open it
> again and the first write gets another extent. You close and that releases
all
> the extra space again. Rinse and repeat until abend.
> 
> --
> John McKown
> Systems Engineer IV
> IT
> 
> Administrative Services Group
> 
> HealthMarkets(r)
> 
> 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
> (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell
> john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com
> 
> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or
> proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
contact
> the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
> HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by
the
> insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life
Insurance
> Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and
The
> MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM
> 
> 
> 
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ted MacNEIL]

>Now, how do I override that? Is there a JCL parameter? 

Only if your admins have a class without it.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Ted MacNEIL]

>I'm guessing that somehow, somewhere, something is causing the effect of a 
>space release upon every close.
>I am uncertian as to what to ask the programmer about his program, but I feel 
>like that's the root of my problem.

I doubt it's your programmer.
Check with your storeadmins.
Have they coded (partial) release on close in their ACS routines?
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[McKown, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:46 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
> 
> Good answer :-)
> 
> Now, how do I override that? Is there a JCL parameter? 

Use a different management class. If you can't, then you're dead. Why would 
anybody code this It really destroys the use of PDSes and even sequential 
DSNs which are MOD'ed to. Perhaps the storage admin needs a bit of education. 

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The 
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[O'Brien, David W. (NIH/CIT) [C]]

MGMTCLAS=name of management class that doesn't release space.
Of course that assumes you have the authority to assign management classes. The 
ACS routines may not allow you to. See your Storage Mgt. admin.
See ISMF panel 3 set CDS name to 'active' and Management class to * to list 
available management class names.

Thank You,
Dave O'Brien
NIH Contractor

From: Hal Merritt [hmerr...@jackhenry.com]
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 3:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

Good answer :-)

Now, how do I override that? Is there a JCL parameter?

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
McKown, John
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
..snip
> I'm guessing that somehow, somewhere, something is causing
> the effect of a space release upon every close. I am
> uncertian as to what to ask the programmer about his program,
> but I feel like that's the root of my problem.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks!!

Possibly your ACS MGMTCLAS has an "Partial Release" set to YES_IMMEDIATE. In 
that case, the first close will release all unused space. You then open it 
again and the first write gets another extent. You close and that releases all 
the extra space again. Rinse and repeat until abend.

--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are 
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distribution
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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[Hal Merritt]

Good answer :-)

Now, how do I override that? Is there a JCL parameter? 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of 
McKown, John
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
..snip
> I'm guessing that somehow, somewhere, something is causing 
> the effect of a space release upon every close. I am 
> uncertian as to what to ask the programmer about his program, 
> but I feel like that's the root of my problem.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks!!

Possibly your ACS MGMTCLAS has an "Partial Release" set to YES_IMMEDIATE. In 
that case, the first close will release all unused space. You then open it 
again and the first write gets another extent. You close and that releases all 
the extra space again. Rinse and repeat until abend.

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT
 
NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any files transmitted with it are 
intended
exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. The message, 
together with any attachment, may contain confidential and/or privileged 
information.
Any unauthorized review, use, printing, saving, copying, disclosure or 
distribution 
is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please 
immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete all copies.

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Re: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE

[McKown, John]

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hal Merritt
> Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 2:30 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
> Subject: The Incredible Shrinking PDSE
> 
> I have a C application program that creates members in a PDSe 
> that is allocated new and empty at the beginning of the job 
> by an IEFBR14 step.
> 
> Since the program repeatedly opens and closes the PDSe, I can 
> watch the space allocation via ISPF 3.4. To our concernation, 
> the allocated space shrinks as the number of exents rises. No 
> matter how  much space we specify, the file shrinks and 
> eventually the program fails with an E37-04 (no more space on volume).
> 
> I'm guessing that somehow, somewhere, something is causing 
> the effect of a space release upon every close. I am 
> uncertian as to what to ask the programmer about his program, 
> but I feel like that's the root of my problem.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks!!

Possibly your ACS MGMTCLAS has an "Partial Release" set to YES_IMMEDIATE. In 
that case, the first close will release all unused space. You then open it 
again and the first write gets another extent. You close and that releases all 
the extra space again. Rinse and repeat until abend.

--
John McKown 
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or 
proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact 
the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. 
HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the 
insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance 
Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The 
MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM

 

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