Re: ps dataset
Ted, Are you making the assumption that SMS is going to open the newly allocated dataset using an access method (BSAM/QSAM) that depends on DCB information? SMS might open the dataset via another access method (EXCP?) that doesn't give a rip about DCB parameters. The EOF marker isn't dependent upon DCB either. This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU 02/14/2007 08:15 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU cc Subject Re: ps dataset ISTR that SMS will put an EOF at the beginning of a newly allocated SMS-managed dataset if/when SMS determines that the dataset's DSORG=PS. No DCB! No EOF! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
I thought that's what I said. If I wasn't clear, I said: It has to be SMS-Managed. It has to have a data class. The data class is NOT required, as long as you specify DSORG=PS in the JCL. -- Bruce A. Black Senior Software Developer for FDR Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
Bruce, AFAIK, if SDB can figure out what the DSORG is from the DCB you also do not need a DATACLAS. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Black Sent: Friday, 16 February 2007 12:22 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ps dataset I thought that's what I said. If I wasn't clear, I said: It has to be SMS-Managed. It has to have a data class. The data class is NOT required, as long as you specify DSORG=PS in the JCL. -- Bruce A. Black Senior Software Developer for FDR Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
AFAIK, if SDB can figure out what the DSORG is from the DCB you also do not need a DATACLAS. Sorry, no. The EOF will be written at allocation time (if the DSORG=PS is specified or derived from the data class), but the DCB is not known until the dataset is open, too late to write the EOF. This is only for datasets on SMS-managed volumes, of course. -- Bruce A. Black Senior Software Developer for FDR Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
Bruce, Yeah, that's a brain-fart. We discussed this a few weeks ago... Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bruce Black Sent: Friday, 16 February 2007 12:51 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ps dataset AFAIK, if SDB can figure out what the DSORG is from the DCB you also do not need a DATACLAS. Sorry, no. The EOF will be written at allocation time (if the DSORG=PS is specified or derived from the data class), but the DCB is not known until the dataset is open, too late to write the EOF. This is only for datasets on SMS-managed volumes, of course. -- Bruce A. Black Senior Software Developer for FDR Innovation Data Processing 973-890-7300 personal: [EMAIL PROTECTED] sales info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] tech support: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.innovationdp.fdr.com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
Paul: Arthur is correct. If you delete a dataset then ask for the same allocation, the system will find the best fit which is usually the space you just deleted so you will get the same space. If you ONLY do an allocation like an IEFBR14 and do not open it for output, you will not get the eof record, consequently access methods will read the data just fine assuming blocksize etc, are correct. The field name in the F1 dscb is DS1LSTAR and is the last block pointer. Bill From: Arthur T. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ps dataset Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2007 22:45:42 -0500 On 13 Feb 2007 19:28:48 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main (Message-ID:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Jodlowski) wrote: I have a wierd problem, a programmer runs a job that creates a dsn (tst.report) then he ftp's it down to a server and then uncat/deletes it. Later on he runs the job again expecting the dsn (tst.report) to be empty. AND IT SHOULD BE. Well it's not in fact it has the same data as the first run. I go to 3.4 screen an try to browse the dataset but it says it is empty. I even ran a IEBGENER and i showed the data (of cource we DID NOT run the uncat/delete step) This is all done on the same volume (userb4) and it is NOT sms-managed. In fact We don't HAVE any SMS-managed data sets. We are running of z/os v1r7. I've hit this, before. This feature goes 'way back. I first hit some variation of it more than 25 years back. It's caused when the new allocation is in the same exact spot as the old (deleted) allocation was. This is not rare enough. Some programs (such as ISPF's 3.4) notice that the VTOC's pointer to the last record (I forget its name, but it ends with STAR) is zero. No records means an empty dataset, therefore it won't show any data. Most other programs (such as IEBGENER) will read until it hits an EOF. If you did have this under SMS management, you wouldn't have the problem. When the system allocates a PS dataset on SMS dasd, it immediately writes an EOF. You can see recent threads for details on exactly when this does and doesn't happen. -- I cannot receive mail at the address this was sent from. To reply directly, send to ar23hur at intergate dot com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html _ FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo buy and sell with people you know http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex001001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com?s_cid=Hotmail_tagline_12/06 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
If you ONLY do an allocation like an IEFBR14 and do not open it for output, you will not get the eof record, I don't believe that is 100% accurate. If you have a data class (optional under SMS), the file will be opened by SMS, therebye creating an EOF (iirc). - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
This is exactly correct for a non-sms managed dataset. If you do an allocate and never open the dataset you will not get an EOF. Any old data at that allocation will be readable with the correct dcb. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
Hello, These were recently posted in this thread (about things that can go thud when a dataset is allocated but not used). For SMS-managed datasets, this phenomenon goes away as SMS writes an EOF on the first track on the new dataset. and If you did have this under SMS management, you wouldn't have the problem. When the system allocates a PS dataset on SMS dasd, it immediately writes an EOF. You can see recent threads for details on exactly when this does and doesn't happen. If a dataset is allocated under sms management via JCL/IEFBR14 will it ALWAYS raise an end of file on the first read? A physical eof is written even though the dataset was never referenced other than alloc/de-alloc? My confusion is due to the last part of the preceeding quote when this does and doesn't happen. Thanx, d.sch. _ Turn searches into helpful donations. Make your search count. http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_donationFORM=WLMTAG -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
Ted, While a DATACLAS can be used to provide attributes for a non-SMS dataset, it is the presence of a STORCLAS that actually denotes an SMS managed dataset, which in turn gives you all the good things that come with SMS. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2007 12:11 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ps dataset If you ONLY do an allocation like an IEFBR14 and do not open it for output, you will not get the eof record, I don't believe that is 100% accurate. If you have a data class (optional under SMS), the file will be opened by SMS, therebye creating an EOF (iirc). - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
If a dataset is allocated under sms management via JCL/IEFBR14 will it ALWAYS raise an end of file on the first read? A physical eof is written even though the dataset was never referenced other than alloc/de-alloc? Data Class is the only optional construct under SMS. If you have it defined for the dataset (through the ACS routines) the EOF will be there. SMS opens and closes the data set to ensure the DCB is enforced. Without it, and without SMS, this is not done. Funny, I thought I said this a day or so ago. Either my post didn't go through, or nobody read it. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
While a DATACLAS can be used to provide attributes for a non-SMS dataset, it is the presence of a STORCLAS that actually denotes an SMS managed dataset, which in turn gives you all the good things that come with SMS. Yes. I know that. But, the dataset has to be SMS-Managed and have a data class (optional) for the EOF to be written. I wasn't going into the detail of how a dataset becomes SMS managed, rather what is required when it is SMS managed. There is no EOF written with IEFBR14 allocating a dataset that is not SMS Managed. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
Ted, I've searched for a definitive reference on this but nothing turned up quickly. However, every reference I did find specifies that the EOF is written for SMS Managed Datasets. A DATACLAS can be used by both SMS and non-SMS managed datasets, but a dataset is not SMS managed unless it has a STORCLAS and ultimately gets allocated to an SMS Volume. So I'm led to believe that the presence of a DATACLAS does not cause SMS to write an EOF when allocating a non-SMS dataset. Ron Data Class is the only optional construct under SMS. If you have it defined for the dataset (through the ACS routines) the EOF will be there. SMS opens and closes the data set to ensure the DCB is enforced. Without it, and without SMS, this is not done. Funny, I thought I said this a day or so ago. Either my post didn't go through, or nobody read it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
ISTR that SMS will put an EOF at the beginning of a newly allocated SMS-managed dataset if/when SMS determines that the dataset's DSORG=PS. It didn't seem to matter if this information came from the DATACLAS or DD statement. I don't remember where it was documented, only that I stumbled across it while on a mission to eliminate datasets that HSM wouldn't migrate because they'd never been opened. Tom This is a PRIVATE message. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete without copying and kindly advise us by e-mail of the mistake in delivery. NOTE: Regardless of content, this e-mail shall not operate to bind CSC to any order or other contract unless pursuant to explicit written agreement or government initiative expressly permitting the use of e-mail for such purpose. Ron Hawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] LE.COMTo Sent by: IBM IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Mainframe cc Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject .EDU Re: ps dataset 02/14/2007 07:44 PM Please respond to IBM Mainframe Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED] .EDU Ted, I've searched for a definitive reference on this but nothing turned up quickly. However, every reference I did find specifies that the EOF is written for SMS Managed Datasets. A DATACLAS can be used by both SMS and non-SMS managed datasets, but a dataset is not SMS managed unless it has a STORCLAS and ultimately gets allocated to an SMS Volume. So I'm led to believe that the presence of a DATACLAS does not cause SMS to write an EOF when allocating a non-SMS dataset. Ron Data Class is the only optional construct under SMS. If you have it defined for the dataset (through the ACS routines) the EOF will be there. SMS opens and closes the data set to ensure the DCB is enforced. Without it, and without SMS, this is not done. Funny, I thought I said this a day or so ago. Either my post didn't go through, or nobody read it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
So I'm led to believe that the presence of a DATACLAS does not cause SMS to write an EOF when allocating a non-SMS dataset. I thought that's what I said. If I wasn't clear, I said: It has to be SMS-Managed. It has to have a data class. I never said that a data class would guarantee an EOF for non-SMS. I've checked my posts, and only a typo would say anything different. I never delved in the details of how to get a data set SMS managed. I just stated that it had to be! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
ISTR that SMS will put an EOF at the beginning of a newly allocated SMS-managed dataset if/when SMS determines that the dataset's DSORG=PS. No DCB! No EOF! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
Ted, You said, somewhat ambiguously: If you have a data class (optional under SMS), the file will be opened by SMS, therebye creating an EOF (iirc). This is what I was responding to. You later added that a STORCLAS (SMS Managed) is also required. My understanding is that DATACLAS is not required, only DSORG=PS for an SMS Managed Dataset as posted by Tom Puddicombe. Ron -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ted MacNEIL Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2007 9:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: ps dataset So I'm led to believe that the presence of a DATACLAS does not cause SMS to write an EOF when allocating a non-SMS dataset. I thought that's what I said. If I wasn't clear, I said: It has to be SMS-Managed. It has to have a data class. I never said that a data class would guarantee an EOF for non-SMS. I've checked my posts, and only a typo would say anything different. I never delved in the details of how to get a data set SMS managed. I just stated that it had to be! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
If you have a data class (optional under SMS),
the file will be opened by SMS, therebye creating an EOF (iirc).
I thought I implied SMS.
If I missed a step, sorry.
Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.
(8-{}
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!
--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
On 13 Feb 2007 19:28:48 -0800, in bit.listserv.ibm-main (Message-ID:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Jodlowski) wrote: I have a wierd problem, a programmer runs a job that creates a dsn (tst.report) then he ftp's it down to a server and then uncat/deletes it. Later on he runs the job again expecting the dsn (tst.report) to be empty. AND IT SHOULD BE. Well it's not in fact it has the same data as the first run. I go to 3.4 screen an try to browse the dataset but it says it is empty. I even ran a IEBGENER and i showed the data (of cource we DID NOT run the uncat/delete step) This is all done on the same volume (userb4) and it is NOT sms-managed. In fact We don't HAVE any SMS-managed data sets. We are running of z/os v1r7. I've hit this, before. This feature goes 'way back. I first hit some variation of it more than 25 years back. It's caused when the new allocation is in the same exact spot as the old (deleted) allocation was. This is not rare enough. Some programs (such as ISPF's 3.4) notice that the VTOC's pointer to the last record (I forget its name, but it ends with STAR) is zero. No records means an empty dataset, therefore it won't show any data. Most other programs (such as IEBGENER) will read until it hits an EOF. If you did have this under SMS management, you wouldn't have the problem. When the system allocates a PS dataset on SMS dasd, it immediately writes an EOF. You can see recent threads for details on exactly when this does and doesn't happen. -- I cannot receive mail at the address this was sent from. To reply directly, send to ar23hur at intergate dot com -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: ps dataset
I suspect this is a problem (phenomenon? -- some think it's a feature) that has been discussed here at some length in the past few weeks. DFSMS is creating the dataset in the same location as before, and the same data is still there. Don't know enough about ISPF edit internals to know why it (alone) does not read the data. Perhaps other programs have a default RECFM, but ISPF edit will not read a dataset for which the DSCB does not already have a RECFM (shows it as empty). For SMS-managed datasets, this phenomenon goes away as SMS writes an EOF on the first track on the new dataset. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Jodlowski Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 7:28 PM To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: ps dataset I have a wierd problem, a programmer runs a job that creates a dsn (tst.report) then he ftp's it down to a server and then uncat/deletes it. Later on he runs the job again expecting the dsn (tst.report) to be empty. AND IT SHOULD BE. Well it's not in fact it has the same data as the first run. I go to 3.4 screen an try to browse the dataset but it says it is empty. I even ran a IEBGENER and i showed the data (of cource we DID NOT run the uncat/delete step) This is all done on the same volume (userb4) and it is NOT sms-managed. In fact We don't HAVE any SMS-managed data sets. We are running of z/os v1r7. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
