Re: zAAp on zIIP Question
George, glad be of help. DataDirect is not a party in the IBM lawsuit, in fact, we are strongly in favor of IBM's specialty engine strategy. We have been able to achieve almost 100% zIIP eligibility in our Shadow products and deliver real TCO savings to our customers while remaining in strict compliance with IBM's zIIP offload rules. This could not have been done without IBM and their support. If your clients need further validation regarding the integrity of our approach, they may contact Mark Anzani, VP, Chief Technology Officer, System z. Best, Gregg -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of George Henke Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:57 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: zAAp on zIIP Question Thank you very much, Gregg, for the enlightenment. My current client is seriously considering your product, SHADOW, after I informed them last week that a previous client was able to extend the life of their 2 GPP configuration enormously by installing your product, SHADOW. My previous client, who has been running your product now for some time, spoke very highly of it. I have read your posts and find them very helpful in removing any legal concerns to which my client is very sensitive. Does this mean that DataDirect has not been named as a party in the IBM suit? On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Gregg Willhoit wrote: > George, while I appreciate you calling Shadow a great program product, I > have to remind you that we at Progress|DataDirect have absolutely nothing in > common with NEON regarding our approaches to TCO, zIIP utilization, and most > importantly how we conduct ourselves with regard to our relationships with > IBM, other ISVs, and our customers. Hopefully some of the following blogs I > posted last year will clarify this for you. > > Best, > Gregg Willhoit > Chief Software Architect > Progress|DataDirect > > > http://blogs.datadirect.com/2009/07/setting-the-record-straight-datadirect-shadow-is-not-affiliated-with-neon-enterprise-software.html > > > http://blogs.datadirect.com/2009/08/violation-vs-exploitation-ibm-clarifies-authorized-use-of-ibm-specialty-enginesprocessors.html > > > http://blogs.datadirect.com/2009/07/ibm-cautions-customers-about-neon-enterprise-softwares-zprime-product.html > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of George Henke > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 6:37 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: zAAp on zIIP Question > > BTW: There are 2 great program products out there, Shadow and Neon, that > will do some TCB SRB footwork under the covers and let you run a > significant > amount of ineligible non-ENCLAVE TCB workloads, like CICS, on a Ziip > processor. > > I know of one implementation of Shadow at a previous client which has > extended the life of their 2 GPP's enormously with no ill effects. > > IBM has started some litigation over this, so it is probably a very good > tool. :-) And time is of the essence before they start metering and > throttling Ziip/Zaap processors. > > > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Edward Jaffe > wrote: > > > Klein, Kevin wrote: > > > >> I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with the ZAAPZIIP > feature > >> of z/OS 1.11 yet. > >> > >> > > > > Yes. We use it here. > > > > > > We know not all zIIP-eligible work is dispatched to a zIIP engine (about > >> 50% of DB2 9 DDF work if what I've read is correct). If one has only > zIIP > >> engines and uses the ZAAPZIIP option on z/OS 1.11 is the same "penalty" > >> applied or will all zAAP-eligible work be dispatched to the zIIP > engines. > >> > >> > > > > The creator of the enclave specifies the percentage of SRB mode work > > running in the enclave that is eligible for redirection to zIIP. DB2 is > > deliberately setting the percentage below 100%. In our products, we > always > > set the percentage to 100%. > > > > zAAP on zIIP does not use this instrumentation. No enclaves; no SRBs. The > > feature simply allows all work that would have been queued to the WUQ for > > zAAPs (if there were any) to be queued to the WUQ for zIIPs. > > > > -- > > Edward E Jaffe > > Phoenix Software International, Inc > > 831 Parkview Drive North > > El Segundo, CA 90245 > > 310-338-0400 x318 > > edja...@phoenixsoftware.com > > http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ > > > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instr
Re: zAAp on zIIP Question
Thank you very much, Gregg, for the enlightenment. My current client is seriously considering your product, SHADOW, after I informed them last week that a previous client was able to extend the life of their 2 GPP configuration enormously by installing your product, SHADOW. My previous client, who has been running your product now for some time, spoke very highly of it. I have read your posts and find them very helpful in removing any legal concerns to which my client is very sensitive. Does this mean that DataDirect has not been named as a party in the IBM suit? On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Gregg Willhoit wrote: > George, while I appreciate you calling Shadow a great program product, I > have to remind you that we at Progress|DataDirect have absolutely nothing in > common with NEON regarding our approaches to TCO, zIIP utilization, and most > importantly how we conduct ourselves with regard to our relationships with > IBM, other ISVs, and our customers. Hopefully some of the following blogs I > posted last year will clarify this for you. > > Best, > Gregg Willhoit > Chief Software Architect > Progress|DataDirect > > > http://blogs.datadirect.com/2009/07/setting-the-record-straight-datadirect-shadow-is-not-affiliated-with-neon-enterprise-software.html > > > http://blogs.datadirect.com/2009/08/violation-vs-exploitation-ibm-clarifies-authorized-use-of-ibm-specialty-enginesprocessors.html > > > http://blogs.datadirect.com/2009/07/ibm-cautions-customers-about-neon-enterprise-softwares-zprime-product.html > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of George Henke > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 6:37 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: zAAp on zIIP Question > > BTW: There are 2 great program products out there, Shadow and Neon, that > will do some TCB SRB footwork under the covers and let you run a > significant > amount of ineligible non-ENCLAVE TCB workloads, like CICS, on a Ziip > processor. > > I know of one implementation of Shadow at a previous client which has > extended the life of their 2 GPP's enormously with no ill effects. > > IBM has started some litigation over this, so it is probably a very good > tool. :-) And time is of the essence before they start metering and > throttling Ziip/Zaap processors. > > > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Edward Jaffe > wrote: > > > Klein, Kevin wrote: > > > >> I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with the ZAAPZIIP > feature > >> of z/OS 1.11 yet. > >> > >> > > > > Yes. We use it here. > > > > > > We know not all zIIP-eligible work is dispatched to a zIIP engine (about > >> 50% of DB2 9 DDF work if what I've read is correct). If one has only > zIIP > >> engines and uses the ZAAPZIIP option on z/OS 1.11 is the same "penalty" > >> applied or will all zAAP-eligible work be dispatched to the zIIP > engines. > >> > >> > > > > The creator of the enclave specifies the percentage of SRB mode work > > running in the enclave that is eligible for redirection to zIIP. DB2 is > > deliberately setting the percentage below 100%. In our products, we > always > > set the percentage to 100%. > > > > zAAP on zIIP does not use this instrumentation. No enclaves; no SRBs. The > > feature simply allows all work that would have been queued to the WUQ for > > zAAPs (if there were any) to be queued to the WUQ for zIIPs. > > > > -- > > Edward E Jaffe > > Phoenix Software International, Inc > > 831 Parkview Drive North > > El Segundo, CA 90245 > > 310-338-0400 x318 > > edja...@phoenixsoftware.com > > http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ > > > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > > > > > > -- > George Henke > (C) 845 401 5614 > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- George Henke (C) 845 401 5614 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAp on zIIP Question
George, while I appreciate you calling Shadow a great program product, I have to remind you that we at Progress|DataDirect have absolutely nothing in common with NEON regarding our approaches to TCO, zIIP utilization, and most importantly how we conduct ourselves with regard to our relationships with IBM, other ISVs, and our customers. Hopefully some of the following blogs I posted last year will clarify this for you. Best, Gregg Willhoit Chief Software Architect Progress|DataDirect http://blogs.datadirect.com/2009/07/setting-the-record-straight-datadirect-shadow-is-not-affiliated-with-neon-enterprise-software.html http://blogs.datadirect.com/2009/08/violation-vs-exploitation-ibm-clarifies-authorized-use-of-ibm-specialty-enginesprocessors.html http://blogs.datadirect.com/2009/07/ibm-cautions-customers-about-neon-enterprise-softwares-zprime-product.html -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of George Henke Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 6:37 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: zAAp on zIIP Question BTW: There are 2 great program products out there, Shadow and Neon, that will do some TCB SRB footwork under the covers and let you run a significant amount of ineligible non-ENCLAVE TCB workloads, like CICS, on a Ziip processor. I know of one implementation of Shadow at a previous client which has extended the life of their 2 GPP's enormously with no ill effects. IBM has started some litigation over this, so it is probably a very good tool. :-) And time is of the essence before they start metering and throttling Ziip/Zaap processors. On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Edward Jaffe wrote: > Klein, Kevin wrote: > >> I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with the ZAAPZIIP feature >> of z/OS 1.11 yet. >> >> > > Yes. We use it here. > > > We know not all zIIP-eligible work is dispatched to a zIIP engine (about >> 50% of DB2 9 DDF work if what I've read is correct). If one has only zIIP >> engines and uses the ZAAPZIIP option on z/OS 1.11 is the same "penalty" >> applied or will all zAAP-eligible work be dispatched to the zIIP engines. >> >> > > The creator of the enclave specifies the percentage of SRB mode work > running in the enclave that is eligible for redirection to zIIP. DB2 is > deliberately setting the percentage below 100%. In our products, we always > set the percentage to 100%. > > zAAP on zIIP does not use this instrumentation. No enclaves; no SRBs. The > feature simply allows all work that would have been queued to the WUQ for > zAAPs (if there were any) to be queued to the WUQ for zIIPs. > > -- > Edward E Jaffe > Phoenix Software International, Inc > 831 Parkview Drive North > El Segundo, CA 90245 > 310-338-0400 x318 > edja...@phoenixsoftware.com > http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- George Henke (C) 845 401 5614 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAp on zIIP Question
One thing to be aware of is that once you turn on zAAP on zIIP you no longer get the zAAP information in the SMF records (i.e. zAAP elligible, etc.). It is now all considered zIIP work and shows up in those buckets. Tom Kelman Enterprise Capacity Planner Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of Edward Jaffe > Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 5:25 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: zAAp on zIIP Question > > Klein, Kevin wrote: > > I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with the ZAAPZIIP > feature of z/OS 1.11 yet. > > > > Yes. We use it here. > > > We know not all zIIP-eligible work is dispatched to a zIIP engine (about > 50% of DB2 9 DDF work if what I've read is correct). If one has only zIIP > engines and uses the ZAAPZIIP option on z/OS 1.11 is the same "penalty" > applied or will all zAAP-eligible work be dispatched to the zIIP engines. > > > > The creator of the enclave specifies the percentage of SRB mode work > running in the enclave that is eligible for redirection to zIIP. DB2 is > deliberately setting the percentage below 100%. In our products, we > always set the percentage to 100%. > > zAAP on zIIP does not use this instrumentation. No enclaves; no SRBs. > The feature simply allows all work that would have been queued to the > WUQ for zAAPs (if there were any) to be queued to the WUQ for zIIPs. > > -- > Edward E Jaffe > Phoenix Software International, Inc > 831 Parkview Drive North > El Segundo, CA 90245 > 310-338-0400 x318 > edja...@phoenixsoftware.com > http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclusively for the use of the individual or entity intended as the recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, copying, printing, reviewing, retention, disclosure, distribution or forwarding of the message or any attached file is not authorized and is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please advise the sender by reply electronic mail immediately and permanently delete the original transmission, any attachments and any copies of this message from your computer system. * -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAp on zIIP Question
BTW: There are 2 great program products out there, Shadow and Neon, that will do some TCB SRB footwork under the covers and let you run a significant amount of ineligible non-ENCLAVE TCB workloads, like CICS, on a Ziip processor. I know of one implementation of Shadow at a previous client which has extended the life of their 2 GPP's enormously with no ill effects. IBM has started some litigation over this, so it is probably a very good tool. :-) And time is of the essence before they start metering and throttling Ziip/Zaap processors. On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Edward Jaffe wrote: > Klein, Kevin wrote: > >> I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with the ZAAPZIIP feature >> of z/OS 1.11 yet. >> >> > > Yes. We use it here. > > > We know not all zIIP-eligible work is dispatched to a zIIP engine (about >> 50% of DB2 9 DDF work if what I've read is correct). If one has only zIIP >> engines and uses the ZAAPZIIP option on z/OS 1.11 is the same "penalty" >> applied or will all zAAP-eligible work be dispatched to the zIIP engines. >> >> > > The creator of the enclave specifies the percentage of SRB mode work > running in the enclave that is eligible for redirection to zIIP. DB2 is > deliberately setting the percentage below 100%. In our products, we always > set the percentage to 100%. > > zAAP on zIIP does not use this instrumentation. No enclaves; no SRBs. The > feature simply allows all work that would have been queued to the WUQ for > zAAPs (if there were any) to be queued to the WUQ for zIIPs. > > -- > Edward E Jaffe > Phoenix Software International, Inc > 831 Parkview Drive North > El Segundo, CA 90245 > 310-338-0400 x318 > edja...@phoenixsoftware.com > http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > -- George Henke (C) 845 401 5614 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAp on zIIP Question
Klein, Kevin wrote: I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with the ZAAPZIIP feature of z/OS 1.11 yet. Yes. We use it here. We know not all zIIP-eligible work is dispatched to a zIIP engine (about 50% of DB2 9 DDF work if what I've read is correct). If one has only zIIP engines and uses the ZAAPZIIP option on z/OS 1.11 is the same "penalty" applied or will all zAAP-eligible work be dispatched to the zIIP engines. The creator of the enclave specifies the percentage of SRB mode work running in the enclave that is eligible for redirection to zIIP. DB2 is deliberately setting the percentage below 100%. In our products, we always set the percentage to 100%. zAAP on zIIP does not use this instrumentation. No enclaves; no SRBs. The feature simply allows all work that would have been queued to the WUQ for zAAPs (if there were any) to be queued to the WUQ for zIIPs. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAp on zIIP Question
Actually, it will be interesting to see what IBM will let you do. Once you have a zAAP installed, I don't believe IBM will let you convert it to a zIIP. But, strangely, you can easily convert a zIIP to a zAAP. Since you already have a zAAP on a z9 and have paid for it, you can (logically) move it to the z10 without paying for it. The real issue to look at is: do you have enough work for an entire zIIP? Same question for the zAAP. If you have a lot of zIIP work, and only a little zAAP work, then zIIP on zAAP can be attractive. You will have to know your workloads well, and have a very good WLM Service Policy in place with Report Classes set up. All the work on the zIIP has only one bucket for metrics. You won't be able to tell if it was actually zAAP work that ran on the zIIP. It can get confusing; but it can also be a good thing to do. znor...@ca.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Klein, Kevin Sent: Friday, February 19, 2010 SYSN 01:56 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: zAAp on zIIP Question Greetings All, I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with the ZAAPZIIP feature of z/OS 1.11 yet. We know not all zIIP-eligible work is dispatched to a zIIP engine (about 50% of DB2 9 DDF work if what I've read is correct). If one has only zIIP engines and uses the ZAAPZIIP option on z/OS 1.11 is the same "penalty" applied or will all zAAP-eligible work be dispatched to the zIIP engines. We have one zAAP engine now and are looking to upgrade our CPU to a z10 and add a zIIP. We're wondering if we'd be better off putting two zIIPs on (no zAAP) and using ZAAPZIIP=YES. We wouldn't want to do it this way if there is a "penalty". Current zAAP usage is 30-40% in peak hours on a z9. zIIP-eligible work looks like it will only save us 3-6% of our GP CPU but we're expecting growth in DDF processing. Attention: The information contained in this message and or attachments is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any system and destroy any copies. (GWCC) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
Sam, I have it installed as well and have it on 12 LPARs. Working just fine from what I can tell. ___ Jim Petersen MVS - Lead Systems Engineer Home Depot Technology Center 1300 Park Center Drive, Austin, TX 78753 www.homedepot.com email:jim_peter...@homedepot.com 512-977-2615 direct 512-977-2930 fax 210-859-9887 cell phone -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Knutson, Sam Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:04 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=isg1OA27495 http://tinyurl.com/ya3ofrg The zAAP on zIIP enhancement OA27495 NEW FUNCTION - ZAAP ON ZIPP ENHANCEMENT closed with PTFs available yesterday for z/OS 1.9 and z/OS 1.10. It is included as a base function in z/OS 1.11. We installed this today on 1.10 so far so good. As an aside a really good short overview of specialty processors is Glenn Anderson's zIIPs and zAAPs: Understanding the Basics presentation from SHARE in Denver http://tinyurl.com/ycshnhu http://ew.share.org/client_files/callpapers/attach/SHARE_in_Denver/S2244 GA211651.pdf Kathy Walsh Hot Topics also SHARE in Denver had an update on zAAP on zIIP and some other specialty engine topics http://tinyurl.com/yezztyf http://ew.share.org/client_files/callpapers/attach/SHARE_in_Denver/S2100 KW105426.pdf Best Regards, Sam Knutson, GEICO System z HW/SW/Automation Team Leader mailto:sknut...@geico.com (office) 301.986.3574 (cell) 301.996.1318 "Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast..." This email/fax message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this email/fax is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all paper and electronic copies of the original message. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html - The information contained in this e-mail and any attached documents may contain information that is confidential or otherwise protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, or if this message has been sent to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply e-mail and then delete this message, including any attachments. Any dissemination, distribution or other use of the contents of this message by anyone other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=isg1OA27495 http://tinyurl.com/ya3ofrg The zAAP on zIIP enhancement OA27495 NEW FUNCTION - ZAAP ON ZIPP ENHANCEMENT closed with PTFs available yesterday for z/OS 1.9 and z/OS 1.10. It is included as a base function in z/OS 1.11. We installed this today on 1.10 so far so good. As an aside a really good short overview of specialty processors is Glenn Anderson's zIIPs and zAAPs: Understanding the Basics presentation from SHARE in Denver http://tinyurl.com/ycshnhu http://ew.share.org/client_files/callpapers/attach/SHARE_in_Denver/S2244 GA211651.pdf Kathy Walsh Hot Topics also SHARE in Denver had an update on zAAP on zIIP and some other specialty engine topics http://tinyurl.com/yezztyf http://ew.share.org/client_files/callpapers/attach/SHARE_in_Denver/S2100 KW105426.pdf Best Regards, Sam Knutson, GEICO System z HW/SW/Automation Team Leader mailto:sknut...@geico.com (office) 301.986.3574 (cell) 301.996.1318 "Think big, act bold, start simple, grow fast..." This email/fax message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution of this email/fax is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy all paper and electronic copies of the original message. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Edward Jaffe wrote: > As I understand it, ONE useless IPL-time instruction program checks on an > IFL (and possibly other specialty engines). This conveniently prevents z/OS > from IPLing on a specialty engine. > > I know one ISV that wanted their software to come up stand-alone on an IFL. > They had copied their IPL procedure from MVS code back in the old days > before OCO. They discovered which ONE instruction caused them grief and they > simply removed it. Now, everything works perfectly. Right, and it's not a big secret (in fact, it's been named on this list fairly recently). The key is that all of these checks mean that a site cannot "accidentally" run production on an IFL. This protects both IBM and the customers (IBM from loss of revenue, customers from getting sued by IBM). Note that a similar argument has been applied to source code for vendor products: I worked for a vendor whose products were all sourced (so no CPUIDs or other keys). The one and only time we found a company using a product on more CPUs than they were licensed for, it was a bluebird for the sales rep. Full price, too. Customer couldn't exactly argue, since the alternative was to get sued for damages in a fairly slam-dunk case. Before you say, "How do you know there weren't dozens of others?" I guess we don't. But (a) real companies don't deliberately steal enterprise software, and (b) we were interactive enough with our customers that we would *probably* have known. At a minimum, the "cost" of given them source code paid off in good will, as they knew what they were dealing with and could identify issues themselves. Of course, this was long ago and far away; not clear how many of today's so-called sysprogs (this august group excluded) would know what to do with assembler source. SAS/C (and perhaps SAS itself) used to use a CPUID that didn't disable the product if it didn't match, but always wrote a banner saying the company name to whom the software was licensed. Thus if you borrowed a copy of SAS/C from Merrill Lynch (as we did, legitimately and with SAS's agreement), we'd run it and it would say "LICENSED TO MERRILL LYNCH". Again, the theory was that in a real company, someone would eventually ask "Why does our compiler claim it's licensed to someone else?" and a manager would take action. Dunno how that worked out, but it made sense to me. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
McKown, John wrote: But there must be some way for the dispatcher to somehow know that CPU#n is a zIIP or a zAAP as opposed to a general CP. Otherwise how would the dispatcher know not to dispatch general work onto that CPU? I would guess that there is something in the PCCA(?) that says "this is a zIIP" or "this is a zAAP". Which I guess would be determined via some instruction at NIP time? Just a wild guess on my part. Hum. If that is true along with what you said, then the easy way to dispatch general work onto a zIIP or zAAP would be to "zap" that flag so that the dispatcher would think the zIIP or zAAP was a general CP. The processor type is queried via a DIAGNOSE instruction. This information is used to set the PCCAIFA (zAAP) and PCCAzIIP flags. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 13:57:43 -0500, McKown, John wrote: >But there must be some way for the dispatcher to somehow know that CPU#n is a zIIP or a zAAP as opposed to a general CP. Otherwise how would the dispatcher know not to dispatch general work onto that CPU? I would guess that there is something in the PCCA(?) that says "this is a zIIP" or "this is a zAAP". Which I guess would be determined via some instruction at NIP time? Just a wild guess on my part. Hum. If that is true along with what you said, then the easy way to dispatch general work onto a zIIP or zAAP would be to "zap" that flag so that the dispatcher would think the zIIP or zAAP was a general CP. > >-- Well, now. there is something. The PCCAATTR field. x'04' is a zIIP. x'01' seems to be a zAAP (name PCCAIFA where IFA was he original name for a zAAP). Anybody want to try zapping that on a sandbox z/OS to see what happens? I don't have a zIIP or zAAP. -- John -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:56 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP > > >But the millicode in an IFL is different from that in a CP > is different >from that in an ICF (?) is different from that > in a zAAP(?) is different >from that in a zIIP (?). > > I was once told that one cannot IPL off an ICF (or maybe it > was an IFL) because NIP issues an instruction that is not > supported on the specialty engine. If that's true, then NIP > is a special case. > > zIIPs and zAAPs support the full range of instructions. The > decision to route to zIIP or zAAP is made by the dispatcher. > The dispatcher can't examine the work to see what > instructions will be run, and the pathlength to run through > the FLIH and re-dispatch the work on a CP would be too long. > Hence once work is dispatched on a zIIP/zAAP everything has to work. > > Bob Shannon > Rocket Software But there must be some way for the dispatcher to somehow know that CPU#n is a zIIP or a zAAP as opposed to a general CP. Otherwise how would the dispatcher know not to dispatch general work onto that CPU? I would guess that there is something in the PCCA(?) that says "this is a zIIP" or "this is a zAAP". Which I guess would be determined via some instruction at NIP time? Just a wild guess on my part. Hum. If that is true along with what you said, then the easy way to dispatch general work onto a zIIP or zAAP would be to "zap" that flag so that the dispatcher would think the zIIP or zAAP was a general CP. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
Bob Shannon wrote: I was once told that one cannot IPL off an ICF (or maybe it was an IFL) because NIP issues an instruction that is not supported on the specialty engine. If that's true, then NIP is a special case. As I understand it, ONE useless IPL-time instruction program checks on an IFL (and possibly other specialty engines). This conveniently prevents z/OS from IPLing on a specialty engine. I know one ISV that wanted their software to come up stand-alone on an IFL. They had copied their IPL procedure from MVS code back in the old days before OCO. They discovered which ONE instruction caused them grief and they simply removed it. Now, everything works perfectly. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
>I was once told that one cannot IPL off an ICF (or maybe it was an IFL) >because NIP issues an instruction that is not supported on the specialty >engine. If that's true, then NIP is a special case. ICFs load CFCC -- is that an IPL/NIP implementation? IFLs allow the initialisation of z/VM -- same question. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
>But the millicode in an IFL is different from that in a CP is different >from >that in an ICF (?) is different from that in a zAAP(?) is different >from that >in a zIIP (?). I was once told that one cannot IPL off an ICF (or maybe it was an IFL) because NIP issues an instruction that is not supported on the specialty engine. If that's true, then NIP is a special case. zIIPs and zAAPs support the full range of instructions. The decision to route to zIIP or zAAP is made by the dispatcher. The dispatcher can't examine the work to see what instructions will be run, and the pathlength to run through the FLIH and re-dispatch the work on a CP would be too long. Hence once work is dispatched on a zIIP/zAAP everything has to work. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Bob Shannon > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:25 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP > > >However, by doing this, IBM has implicitly revealed that > there cannot be >much, if any, difference between an zAAP and > a zIIP, hardware-wise. > > IBM has never hidden this fact. It has been discussed > numerous times on this list. A PU is a PU. Period. How else > could they dynamically configure PUs for selective purposes > if there was some physical difference? > > Bob Shannon > Rocket Software I was in-exact, sorry. All PUs are created equal. But the millicode running in the PUs is not. I know, I said microcode before - I'm old, sorry. But the millicode in an IFL is different from that in a CP is different from that in an ICF (?) is different from that in a zAAP(?) is different from that in a zIIP (?). -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 08:26:45 -0500, McKown, John wrote: > >Thanks. I was under the impression that the microcode load in a >zAAP and a zIIP was different from the microcode load in a CP. I >guess that I was thinking that because there definately is a >difference (minor) in the microcode load in an IFL and a CP. That's >what stops z/OS from IPL'ing on an IFL (check stop as I recall >from "messing around"). Of course, the argument then becomes if >a difference in the microcode is a "hardware difference" or not. >And if a zAAP and a zIIP had the identical microcode to each >other or a CP, how would z/OS know which was which? That >was my attempted point, which was poorly stated. If I understand correctly, there is no microcode on a z10 processor. There is millicode, which differs from microcode in this regard - it is implemented using a superset of z/Architecture instructions. The processor can run in a special mode in which it executes the millicode to emulate an instruction that was not implemented in hardware. Millicode can also be used to alter the behavior of an instruction, for example if it is determined that there is an error in the hardware implementation. Unfortunately, the IBM journals are no longer available free. There was an excellent article about millicode a while ago. I see now that individual articles can now be purchased for $1.99. You might want to read the IBM System z10 Enterprise Class Technical Introduction, available at http://www.redbooks.ibm.com/redpieces/abstracts/sg247515.html In there, it says, "The z10 EC implements 894 instructions, of which 668 are implemented entirely in hardware." That is, there is no millicode (or microcode) to implement those 668 instructions. The Charles Webb presentation two years ago on what was then called the z6 processor said the same thing. By the way, you might want to be careful with "messing around" with trying to IPL z/OS on IFL, zIIP or zAAP. You might find yourself in violation of the T's & C's of those specialty engines by doing that. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
And it appears that Neon Enterprise Software is exploiting that "similarity" by somehow marking work, other than the "standard" IBM work, to be dispatched to a zIIP or a zAAP via their new zPrime product. Tom Kelman Enterprise Capacity Planner Commerce Bank of Kansas City (816) 760-7632 > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of Horne, Jim - James S > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:17 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP > > John, > > I don't think you understand zIIPs and zAAPs. There is NO hardware > difference between zIIPs, zAAPs, GPs or any other engine (IFL, ICF, SAP - > have I left out any?). The difference is the work marked for dispatch on > them. > > Jim Horne > Systems Programmer > Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT > Lowe's Companies, Inc. > 1000 Lowe's Boulevard > Mooresville, NC > 704-758-5354 > jim.ho...@lowes.com > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On > Behalf Of McKown, John > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:13 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Peter Relson > > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:36 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > > Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP > > > > The zAAP on zIIP support should not be construed to imply > > that zAAPs are > > going away. > > It was intended primarily for customers with small enough > > amounts of zAAP > > and zIIP offload that it might not make sense to purchase > > both a zAAP and a > > zIIP. > > The support is not limited, however, only to that "small" case. > > > > Peter Relson > > z/OS Core Technology Design > > However, by doing this, IBM has implicitly revealed that there cannot be > much, if any, difference between an zAAP and a zIIP, hardware-wise. At > least from an application viewpoint. I wish that I had one so that I could > "fiddle around" to see what would fail. I am very confident that all > "general purpose" (user mode) instructions are fully supported. But > perhaps not all of the privileged instructions. > > -- > John McKown > Systems Engineer IV > IT > > Administrative Services Group > > HealthMarkets(r) > > 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 > (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell > john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com > > Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or > proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please > contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original > message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and > issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The > Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance > Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html > > NOTICE: > All information in and attached to the e-mail(s) below may be proprietary, > confidential, privileged and otherwise protected from improper or > erroneous disclosure. If you are not the sender's intended recipient, you > are not authorized to intercept, read, print, retain, copy, forward, or > disseminate this message. If you have erroneously received this > communication, please notify the sender immediately by phone > (704-758-1000) or by e-mail and destroy all copies of this message > (electronic, paper, or otherwise). Thank you. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO > Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html * If you wish to communicate securely with Commerce Bank and its affiliates, you must log into your account under Online Services at http://www.commercebank.com or use the Commerce Bank Secure Email Message Center at https://securemail.commercebank.com NOTICE: This electronic mail message and any attached files are confidential. The information is exclu
Re: zAAP on zIIP
>IBM always hide it on every presentation addressed to non-technical people >>(read: mamangement).It causes a lot of effort for techies to clarify the >>things our managers. I'm not sure the technical implementation of specialty engines is something that IBM should discuss with management. Did anyone ask? Most management is concerned with money; not bits and bytes. Perhaps you could write an article for one of the airline magazines. Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
Bob Shannon pisze: However, by doing this, IBM has implicitly revealed that there cannot be >much, if any, difference between an zAAP and a zIIP, hardware-wise. IBM has never hidden this fact. It has been discussed numerous times on this list. A PU is a PU. Period. How else could they dynamically configure PUs for selective purposes if there was some physical difference? IBM always hide it on every presentation addressed to non-technical people (read: mamangement). It causes a lot of effort for techies to clarify the things our managers. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Wedug stanu na dzie 01.01.2009 r. kapita zakadowy BRE Banku SA (w caoci wpacony) wynosi 118.763.528 zotych. W zwizku z realizacj warunkowego podwyszenia kapitau zakadowego, na podstawie uchway XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchway XVI NWZ z dnia 27 padziernika 2008r., moe ulec podwyszeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 z. Akcje w podwyszonym kapitale zakadowym BRE Banku SA bd w caoci opacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Horne, Jim - James S > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:17 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP > > John, > > I don't think you understand zIIPs and zAAPs. There is NO > hardware difference between zIIPs, zAAPs, GPs or any other > engine (IFL, ICF, SAP - have I left out any?). The > difference is the work marked for dispatch on them. > > Jim Horne > Systems Programmer Thanks. I was under the impression that the microcode load in a zAAP and a zIIP was different from the microcode load in a CP. I guess that I was thinking that because there definately is a difference (minor) in the microcode load in an IFL and a CP. That's what stops z/OS from IPL'ing on an IFL (check stop as I recall from "messing around"). Of course, the argument then becomes if a difference in the microcode is a "hardware difference" or not. And if a zAAP and a zIIP had the identical microcode to each other or a CP, how would z/OS know which was which? That was my attempted point, which was poorly stated. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
>However, by doing this, IBM has implicitly revealed that there cannot be >>much, if any, difference between an zAAP and a zIIP, hardware-wise. IBM has never hidden this fact. It has been discussed numerous times on this list. A PU is a PU. Period. How else could they dynamically configure PUs for selective purposes if there was some physical difference? Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
John, I don't think you understand zIIPs and zAAPs. There is NO hardware difference between zIIPs, zAAPs, GPs or any other engine (IFL, ICF, SAP - have I left out any?). The difference is the work marked for dispatch on them. Jim Horne Systems Programmer Large Systems Engineering & Messaging NC4IT Lowe's Companies, Inc. 1000 Lowe's Boulevard Mooresville, NC 704-758-5354 jim.ho...@lowes.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of McKown, John Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 9:13 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Peter Relson > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:36 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP > > The zAAP on zIIP support should not be construed to imply > that zAAPs are > going away. > It was intended primarily for customers with small enough > amounts of zAAP > and zIIP offload that it might not make sense to purchase > both a zAAP and a > zIIP. > The support is not limited, however, only to that "small" case. > > Peter Relson > z/OS Core Technology Design However, by doing this, IBM has implicitly revealed that there cannot be much, if any, difference between an zAAP and a zIIP, hardware-wise. At least from an application viewpoint. I wish that I had one so that I could "fiddle around" to see what would fail. I am very confident that all "general purpose" (user mode) instructions are fully supported. But perhaps not all of the privileged instructions. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html NOTICE: All information in and attached to the e-mail(s) below may be proprietary, confidential, privileged and otherwise protected from improper or erroneous disclosure. If you are not the sender's intended recipient, you are not authorized to intercept, read, print, retain, copy, forward, or disseminate this message. If you have erroneously received this communication, please notify the sender immediately by phone (704-758-1000) or by e-mail and destroy all copies of this message (electronic, paper, or otherwise). Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Peter Relson > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 6:36 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP > > The zAAP on zIIP support should not be construed to imply > that zAAPs are > going away. > It was intended primarily for customers with small enough > amounts of zAAP > and zIIP offload that it might not make sense to purchase > both a zAAP and a > zIIP. > The support is not limited, however, only to that "small" case. > > Peter Relson > z/OS Core Technology Design However, by doing this, IBM has implicitly revealed that there cannot be much, if any, difference between an zAAP and a zIIP, hardware-wise. At least from an application viewpoint. I wish that I had one so that I could "fiddle around" to see what would fail. I am very confident that all "general purpose" (user mode) instructions are fully supported. But perhaps not all of the privileged instructions. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:35:45 -0400, Peter Relson wrote: >It was intended primarily for customers with small enough amounts of zAAP >and zIIP offload that it might not make sense to purchase both a zAAP and a >zIIP. What about the opposite? Any plans to allow zIIP on zAAP? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009 07:35:45 -0400, Peter Relson wrote: >The zAAP on zIIP support should not be construed to imply that zAAPs are >going away. >It was intended primarily for customers with small enough amounts of zAAP >and zIIP offload that it might not make sense to purchase both a zAAP and a >zIIP. >The support is not limited, however, only to that "small" case. > >Peter Relson >z/OS Core Technology Design > Peter, I understand that those users as you mentioned could order only 1 or more zIIP's and use it for zAAP / zIIP eligable workload. But what if a customer already has zAAP (for several Java-Apps like WAS) and a zIIP with only 5-10 % load ? Why the limitation of zAAP absence for usage of ZAAPZIIP-parameter ? ciao Lutz -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
The zAAP on zIIP support should not be construed to imply that zAAPs are going away. It was intended primarily for customers with small enough amounts of zAAP and zIIP offload that it might not make sense to purchase both a zAAP and a zIIP. The support is not limited, however, only to that "small" case. Peter Relson z/OS Core Technology Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
Perhaps ZAAPs are going away? _ Dave Jousma Assistant Vice President, Mainframe Services david.jou...@53.com 1830 East Paris, Grand Rapids, MI 49546 MD RSCB1G p 616.653.8429 f 616.653.8497 -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hunkeler Peter (KIUP 4) Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 4:19 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP > Not quite. The "zAAP on zIIP" feature in z/OS 1.11 applies > only if there are no zAAPs in the configuration. "zAAP on zIIP" woke me up. I just got aware of this. >From the announcement letter: >z/OS V1.11 is enhanced with a new function that can enable >System z Application Assist Processor (zAAP) eligible workloads >to run on System z Integrated Information Processors (zIIPs). >This function can enable you to run zIIP- and zAAP-eligible >workloads on the zIIP. ROTFL! (No offence intended) -- Peter Hunkeler CREDIT SUISSE -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html This e-mail transmission contains information that is confidential and may be privileged. It is intended only for the addressee(s) named above. If you receive this e-mail in error, please do not read, copy or disseminate it in any manner. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. Please reply to the message immediately by informing the sender that the message was misdirected. After replying, please erase it from your computer system. Your assistance in correcting this error is appreciated. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
> Not quite. The "zAAP on zIIP" feature in z/OS 1.11 applies > only if there are no zAAPs in the configuration. "zAAP on zIIP" woke me up. I just got aware of this. >From the announcement letter: >z/OS V1.11 is enhanced with a new function that can enable >System z Application Assist Processor (zAAP) eligible workloads >to run on System z Integrated Information Processors (zIIPs). >This function can enable you to run zIIP- and zAAP-eligible >workloads on the zIIP. ROTFL! (No offence intended) -- Peter Hunkeler CREDIT SUISSE -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
Ted MacNEIL pisze: You are allowed to have as many zIIPs and zAAPs as CPs, so 2+2+2 is a legitimate combination. Only IFL's don't require you to match with general CPs. And ICF's as well. BTW: There are also SAP's, but: 1. I never observed them as busy (usually it is approcx 3%) 2. You can add SAP by substracting CP (there are/were panels on SE for that). Quite expensive game. -- Radoslaw Skorupka Lodz, Poland -- BRE Bank SA ul. Senatorska 18 00-950 Warszawa www.brebank.pl Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237 NIP: 526-021-50-88 Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2009 r. kapitał zakładowy BRE Banku SA (w całości wpłacony) wynosi 118.763.528 złotych. W związku z realizacją warunkowego podwyższenia kapitału zakładowego, na podstawie uchwały XXI WZ z dnia 16 marca 2008r., oraz uchwały XVI NWZ z dnia 27 października 2008r., może ulec podwyższeniu do kwoty 123.763.528 zł. Akcje w podwyższonym kapitale zakładowym BRE Banku SA będą w całości opłacone. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
>You are allowed to have as many zIIPs and zAAPs as CPs, so 2+2+2 is a >legitimate combination. Only IFL's don't require you to match with general CPs. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Phoenix > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 1:04 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: zAAP on zIIP > > John, > > You are allowed to have as many zIIPs and zAAPs as CPs, so 2+2+2 is a > legitimate combination. > > David, > > You might still want to purchase a zAAP if your JAVA workload > is large > enough to consume more than your zIIP's unused cycles. Plus the JVM > won't have to compete for cycles with other workloads on the zAAP. > Think of it this way, you will be able to have almost a 2 to1 > specialty > engine to CP advantage for JAVA workloads Thanks. The likelihood of ever getting anything "approaches zero from beneath" as we used to say in mathematics. I'd love a zAAP especially. But that would require a commitment to Java (on CICS and maybe batch to start), which could lead to WAS on z/OS (or JBOSS or Tomcat for that matter). But, at least for the foreseeable future, we are still trying to decrease our costs (and increasing a cost now for a decrease later is not generally considered). The only other exploiter of zAAP, as I recall under z/OS 1.10, is System XML which requires COBOL 4.1 (and we won't get that because it costs more than 3.4 and we don't even use all the new stuff in 3.4). -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
Jim Phoenix wrote: You might still want to purchase a zAAP if your JAVA workload is large enough to consume more than your zIIP's unused cycles. Plus the JVM won't have to compete for cycles with other workloads on the zAAP. Think of it this way, you will be able to have almost a 2 to1 specialty engine to CP advantage for JAVA workloads Not quite. The "zAAP on zIIP" feature in z/OS 1.11 applies only if there are no zAAPs in the configuration. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
McKown, John wrote: Perhaps you can clear up a confusion on my part. I know that for each zIIP, you must have a CP. Likewise, for each zAAP, you must have a CP. Now, If I have 2 CPs, can I have 2 zIIPs and 2 zAAPs? Or is it that I must have at least as many CPs as I have zIIPs+zAAPs? For each CP, you may have up to one zIIP and one zAAP. So, if you have two CPs, you can have two zIIPs and two zAAPs. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 5200 W Century Blvd, Suite 800 Los Angeles, CA 90045 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
John, You are allowed to have as many zIIPs and zAAPs as CPs, so 2+2+2 is a legitimate combination. David, You might still want to purchase a zAAP if your JAVA workload is large enough to consume more than your zIIP's unused cycles. Plus the JVM won't have to compete for cycles with other workloads on the zAAP. Think of it this way, you will be able to have almost a 2 to1 specialty engine to CP advantage for JAVA workloads McKown, John wrote: David Andrews wrote: Is there any reason to buy a zAAP now? Perhaps you can clear up a confusion on my part. I know that for each zIIP, you must have a CP. Likewise, for each zAAP, you must have a CP. Now, If I have 2 CPs, can I have 2 zIIPs and 2 zAAPs? Or is it that I must have at least as many CPs as I have zIIPs+zAAPs? -- John McKown -- | Jim Phoenix | Voice: (310) 338-0400 x316 | | Senior Software Developer| Fax: (310) 338-0801| | Phoenix Software International | Alt fax: (310) 337-2685| | 5200 W. Century Blvd., Suite 800 | jimphoe...@phoenixsoftware.com | | Los Angeles, CA 90045| http://www.phoenixsoftware.com | Opinions expressed by this individual are not necessarily those of the Company. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: zAAP on zIIP
> -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 12:45 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu > Subject: zAAP on zIIP > > David Andrews wrote: > > I hadn't looked at the V1.11 announcement before this, and > just noticed > > the "zAAP on zIIP" support. Is there any reason to buy a zAAP now? > > > > There is a limit on the number of zIIPs you can have in a > configuration. > > -- > Edward E Jaffe Perhaps you can clear up a confusion on my part. I know that for each zIIP, you must have a CP. Likewise, for each zAAP, you must have a CP. Now, If I have 2 CPs, can I have 2 zIIPs and 2 zAAPs? Or is it that I must have at least as many CPs as I have zIIPs+zAAPs? -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
