Re: dead zone
On Tue, 2010-01-05 at 08:45 -0600, Mohammad Khan wrote: In other words more lipstick is being applied here. When are they going to realize that it's a pig ? Hard to argue ... :-)) Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
In other words more lipstick is being applied here. When are they going to realize that it's a pig ? Hard to argue ... :-)) So what's your alternative? Abandon Java on Z? Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
No no no ... there is no suggestion / advice in my comment. Just an observation from a bemused observer on the latest installment in this effort. There was something called High Performance Compiler for Java in mid 90's IIRC. Mohammad On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 07:25:04 -0500, Bob Shannon bshan...@rocketsoftware.com wrote: In other words more lipstick is being applied here. When are they going to realize that it's a pig ? Hard to argue ... :-)) So what's your alternative? Abandon Java on Z? Bob Shannon Rocket Software -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
In other words more lipstick is being applied here. When are they going to realize that it's a pig ? Mohammad On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:41:53 -0800, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: Steve Samson ssam...@dc.rr.com writes: The bar is a thick one, from 2g to 4g, sacrificed to avoid a somewhat unlikely compatibility exposure. Undisciplined use of the high-order bit in 31-bit addresses could have led to unexpected results. The thick bar avoids such a problem. Considering the vast magnitude of 64-bit virtual addresses, why should anyone care or do anything to circumvent the omitted address range? The z/OS RSM developers introduced functionality to allow Java to acquire storage within the previously thick bar for performance reasons. -- Edward E Jaffe -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
I'm still intrigued that the (undocumented) option's name contains the substring 32G. Use2GTo32G: Satisfy this request for n 1M segments using storage in the range 2G to 32G. At some release 64-bit LE moved the CAA and other control blocks from starting at 4G to 32G. I suspect this isn't true. LE has no control whatsoever over the origin (address returned by IARV64) which determines the address at which its above-2G blocks are placed. But RSM's giving the range 2G to 32G to Java likely meant that when LE requested storage from IARV64, it no longer was given an address as low as 4G. Peter Relson z/OS Core Technology Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 10:42 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: dead zone Steve Samson ssam...@dc.rr.com writes: The bar is a thick one, from 2g to 4g, sacrificed to avoid a somewhat unlikely compatibility exposure. Undisciplined use of the high-order bit in 31-bit addresses could have led to unexpected results. The thick bar avoids such a problem. Considering the vast magnitude of 64-bit virtual addresses, why should anyone care or do anything to circumvent the omitted address range? The z/OS RSM developers introduced functionality to allow Java to acquire storage within the previously thick bar for performance reasons. -- Edward E Jaffe Hum, that is very curious to me. But I guess it expands the available/addressable storage without switching from AMODE(31) to AMODE(64) and back. Java is a storage pig. And too much stuff in z/OS still requires AMODE(31) storage (like DCBs et al.) -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:26:15 -0600 McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: : -Original Message- : From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List : [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe : Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 10:42 AM : To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu : Subject: Re: dead zone : Steve Samson ssam...@dc.rr.com writes: : The bar is a thick one, from 2g to 4g, sacrificed to avoid a : somewhat unlikely compatibility exposure. Undisciplined use of the : high-order bit in 31-bit addresses could have led to unexpected : results. The thick bar avoids such a problem. Considering the vast : magnitude of 64-bit virtual addresses, why should anyone care or do : anything to circumvent the omitted address range? : The z/OS RSM developers introduced functionality to allow Java to : acquire storage within the previously thick bar for : performance reasons. :Hum, that is very curious to me. But I guess it expands the available/addressable storage without switching from AMODE(31) to AMODE(64) and back. Java is a storage pig. And too much stuff in z/OS still requires AMODE(31) storage (like DCBs et al.) The storage between 2g and 4g is NOT accessible in 31 bit mode. -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Binyamin Dissen Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 7:50 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: dead zone snip :Hum, that is very curious to me. But I guess it expands the available/addressable storage without switching from AMODE(31) to AMODE(64) and back. Java is a storage pig. And too much stuff in z/OS still requires AMODE(31) storage (like DCBs et al.) The storage between 2g and 4g is NOT accessible in 31 bit mode. -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com You're right! So, why bother and how does it improve performance? I guess we'll never know. It is likely proprietary. Another reason that z/OS is dying. IBM wants it to be as closed as software on the i. Tell the unwashed masses nothing. And make the vendors pay through the nose for that information. Lyrics money, money, MONEY. http://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/apprenticelyrics.html Still brain dead from New Years, I guess. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:37:15 -0500, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com wrote: I was told that compressed pointers for storage below 32GB fit into a smaller space, so more compressed pointers fit in a cache line, leading to more effective cache utilization. Performance is all about the caches these days. I am not a Java person. I don't know what a compressed pointer is. From what (I think) I understand / remember from what I heard at SHARE, it is addresses of large object pages. And since they are in 1M increments / boundaries, the lower 3 bytes aren't needed as long as the thing that needs those addresses understands what they are. (So obviously you need z/OS 1.9 or above and a z10 with large page support turned on take advantage of this new function). I'm still intrigued that the (undocumented) option's name contains the substring 32G. Is 32GiB the size of a particular granule in 64-bit storage management? Or might the 32 refer to a fictitious 32-bit addressing capability? How many 32bit pointers can fit in 30G? I think 4026531840 - which would represent 3840T of virtual storage (if my math is correct - which it probably isn't). I'm getting dizzy thinking about these large numbers. The range from 2GB to 32GB is set aside for a particular intended user, which is the JVM. On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 07:58:37 -0600, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: The storage between 2g and 4g is NOT accessible in 31 bit mode. You're right! So, why bother and how does it improve performance? I guess we'll never know. It is likely proprietary. Since it was talked about at SHARE, I don't think it's proprietary. It's just not GUPI. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:37:15 -0500, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com wrote: I was told that compressed pointers for storage below 32GB fit into a smaller space, so more compressed pointers fit in a cache line, leading to more effective cache utilization. Performance is all about the caches these days. I am not a Java person. I don't know what a compressed pointer is. Just a wild guess. If all pointers are to storage on a doubleword boundary, the address can be shifted right three bits. Then you can point to any doubleword below 32 GB using an unsigned 32-bit address. How that might help performance is a mystery to me. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:27:48 -0600, Mark Zelden wrote: How many 32bit pointers can fit in 30G? I think 4026531840 - which would represent 3840T of virtual storage (if my math is correct - which it probably isn't). I'm getting dizzy thinking about these large numbers. Well, 32768 1MiB pages fit below 32GiB, so those can be identified by 15-bit pointers (reserving 1 bit for ?). I surmise this allows compaction of the page table by a factor of 2. I'd say abbreviated rather than compressed. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
IIRC, this is the type of thing they are doing, and as Jim mentioned: it improves performance because more pointers fit in a cache line, and therefor use less cache. With today's processor designs, using cache effectively can have huge performance benefits. Tom Marchant m42tom-ibmm...@yahoo.com 1/4/2010 10:45 AM On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:37:15 -0500, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com wrote: I was told that compressed pointers for storage below 32GB fit into a smaller space, so more compressed pointers fit in a cache line, leading to more effective cache utilization. Performance is all about the caches these days. I am not a Java person. I don't know what a compressed pointer is. Just a wild guess. If all pointers are to storage on a doubleword boundary, the address can be shifted right three bits. Then you can point to any doubleword below 32 GB using an unsigned 32-bit address. How that might help performance is a mystery to me. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html CONFIDENTIALITY/EMAIL NOTICE: The material in this transmission contains confidential and privileged information intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this material in error and that any forwarding, copying, printing, distribution, use or disclosure of the material is strictly prohibited. If you have received this material in error, please (i) do not read it, (ii) reply to the sender that you received the message in error, and (iii) erase or destroy the material. Emails are not secure and can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
scott.r...@joann.com (Scott Rowe) writes: Just a wild guess. If all pointers are to storage on a doubleword boundary, the address can be shifted right three bits. Then you can point to any doubleword below 32 GB using an unsigned 32-bit address. How that might help performance is a mystery to me. don't laugh, I've actually done that for an application ... which involves huge number of pointers (significantly reduced storage required before needing to roll over to 64-bit pointers). -- 40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
Here is an IBM document that answers many of the questions raised in this thread. Match 31-bit WebSphere Application Server performance with new features in 64-bit Java on System z http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/enable/site/education/wp/1d71a/1d71a.pdf Doug On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:00:25 -0500, Scott Rowe scott.r...@joann.com wrote: IIRC, this is the type of thing they are doing, and as Jim mentioned: it improves performance because more pointers fit in a cache line, and therefor use less cache. With today's processor designs, using cache effectively can have huge performance benefits. Tom Marchant m42tom-ibmm...@yahoo.com 1/4/2010 10:45 AM On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 15:37:15 -0500, Jim Mulder d10j...@us.ibm.com wrote: I was told that compressed pointers for storage below 32GB fit into a smaller space, so more compressed pointers fit in a cache line, leading to more effective cache utilization. Performance is all about the caches these days. I am not a Java person. I don't know what a compressed pointer is. Just a wild guess. If all pointers are to storage on a doubleword boundary, the address can be shifted right three bits. Then you can point to any doubleword below 32 GB using an unsigned 32-bit address. How that might help performance is a mystery to me. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
McKown, John wrote: The storage between 2g and 4g is NOT accessible in 31 bit mode. -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com You're right! So, why bother and how does it improve performance? I guess we'll never know. It is likely proprietary. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html It improves performance by avoiding the extra level of indirection when translating the virtual address to a real address on a TLB miss. Doesn't have to reference the region-table entry. -- | Jim Phoenix | Voice: (310) 338-0400 x316 | | Senior Software Developer| Fax: (310) 338-0801| | Phoenix Software International | Alt fax: (310) 337-2685| | 831 Parkview Drive North | jimphoe...@phoenixsoftware.com | | El Segundo, CA 90245 | http://www.phoenixsoftware.com | Opinions expressed by this individual are not necessarily those of the Company. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Doug Henry Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 11:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: dead zone Here is an IBM document that answers many of the questions raised in this thread. Match 31-bit WebSphere Application Server performance with new features in 64-bit Java on System z http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/enable/site/education/wp/1d71a/1d71a.pdf Doug Very interesting! Thanks for posting that URL. Using the bar for storage avoids out-of-memory errors in 31 bit Java and the overhead in 64 bit Java. The 31 bit Java pointer is 24 bytes, but 48 bytes (with some padding bytes) in 64 bit. So that reduces the storage overhead and page tables and TLB usage. At least, as best as I can tell. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:32:36 -0600, Doug Henry doug_he...@usbank.com wrote: Here is an IBM document that answers many of the questions raised in this thread. Match 31-bit WebSphere Application Server performance with new features in 64-bit Java on System z http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/enable/site/education/wp/1d71a/1d71a.pdf Thanks! I've been trying to find something like this since last week when this thread started. I couldn't even determine what Java level had the function added when looking at the Java APARs. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 09:39:35 -0800, Jim Phoenix wrote: McKown, John wrote: The storage between 2g and 4g is NOT accessible in 31 bit mode. Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com You're right! So, why bother and how does it improve performance? I guess we'll never know. It is likely proprietary. It improves performance by avoiding the extra level of indirection when translating the virtual address to a real address on a TLB miss. Doesn't have to reference the region-table entry. What? Addresses above 2 GiB need the region third index to translate them. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
Hi Mark and John, Your welcome. As always Bob Rogers was great when presenting this information. Doug On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 12:22:02 -0600, Mark Zelden mark.zel...@zurichna.com wrote: On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:32:36 -0600, Doug Henry doug_he...@usbank.com wrote: Here is an IBM document that answers many of the questions raised in this thread. http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/enable/site/education/wp/1d71a/1d71a.pdf Thanks! I've been trying to find something like this since last week when this thread started. I couldn't even determine what Java level had the function added when looking at the Java APARs. Mark -- Mark Zelden -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
It improves performance by avoiding the extra level of indirection when translating the virtual address to a real address on a TLB miss. Doesn't have to reference the region-table entry. That would imply an architecture change. The segment table index has long been 11 bits which corresponds to 2048 segment table entries which in turn corresponds to 2GiB. Everything above 2GiB needs a region first table, at least. -- Peter Hunkeler Credit Suisse -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu wrote on 01/01/2010 07:27:20 PM: Mainframe Discussion List In article listserv%201001011105537168.0...@bama.ua.edu you wrote: On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:41:53 -0800, Edward Jaffe wrote: The z/OS RSM developers introduced functionality to allow Java to acquire storage within the previously thick bar for performance reasons. I would guess, economy in page and segment tables? I was told that compressed pointers for storage below 32GB fit into a smaller space, so more compressed pointers fit in a cache line, leading to more effective cache utilization. Performance is all about the caches these days. I am not a Java person. I don't know what a compressed pointer is. I'm still intrigued that the (undocumented) option's name contains the substring 32G. Is 32GiB the size of a particular granule in 64-bit storage management? Or might the 32 refer to a fictitious 32-bit addressing capability? The range from 2GB to 32GB is set aside for a particular intended user, which is the JVM. At some release 64-bit LE moved the CAA and other control blocks from starting at 4G to 32G. I doubt that LE changed anything. Due to the RSM change, IARV64 is returning an address of 32GB instead of 4GB when LE creates the first memory object in the address space. Jim Mulder z/OS System Test IBM Corp. Poughkeepsie, NY -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main as well. Steve Samson ssam...@dc.rr.com writes: The bar is a thick one, from 2g to 4g, sacrificed to avoid a somewhat unlikely compatibility exposure. Undisciplined use of the high-order bit in 31-bit addresses could have led to unexpected results. The thick bar avoids such a problem. Considering the vast magnitude of 64-bit virtual addresses, why should anyone care or do anything to circumvent the omitted address range? one of the difference between virtual memory support on 360/67 (both 24bit *32*bit virtual address modes) and later 370xa (on 3081). -- 40+yrs virtualization experience (since Jan68), online at home since Mar1970 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
Steve Samson ssam...@dc.rr.com writes: The bar is a thick one, from 2g to 4g, sacrificed to avoid a somewhat unlikely compatibility exposure. Undisciplined use of the high-order bit in 31-bit addresses could have led to unexpected results. The thick bar avoids such a problem. Considering the vast magnitude of 64-bit virtual addresses, why should anyone care or do anything to circumvent the omitted address range? The z/OS RSM developers introduced functionality to allow Java to acquire storage within the previously thick bar for performance reasons. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:41:53 -0800, Edward Jaffe wrote: The z/OS RSM developers introduced functionality to allow Java to acquire storage within the previously thick bar for performance reasons. I would guess, economy in page and segment tables? I'm still intrigued that the (undocumented) option's name contains the substring 32G. Is 32GiB the size of a particular granule in 64-bit storage management? Or might the 32 refer to a fictitious 32-bit addressing capability? --gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
In article listserv%201001011105537168.0...@bama.ua.edu you wrote: On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 08:41:53 -0800, Edward Jaffe wrote: The z/OS RSM developers introduced functionality to allow Java to acquire storage within the previously thick bar for performance reasons. I would guess, economy in page and segment tables? I'm still intrigued that the (undocumented) option's name contains the substring 32G. Is 32GiB the size of a particular granule in 64-bit storage management? Or might the 32 refer to a fictitious 32-bit addressing capability? --gil At some release 64-bit LE moved the CAA and other control blocks from starting at 4G to 32G. -- Don Poitras - SAS Development - SAS Institute Inc. - SAS Campus Drive sas...@sas.com (919) 531-5637Cary, NC 27513 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
The USE2GTO32G parameter is intentionally not documented. It is for IBM use only. The prolog of macro IARV64 confirms this, showing the classification of USE2GTO32G as NONE This is where some doc on the clever usage of this storage from Java would come in handy. Handy for whom? -- Those who want to understand the internals of Java? Yes. -- Anyone else? To be blunt, no one who follows the rules of programming interfaces. Peter Relson z/OS Core Technology Design -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Thu, 2009-12-31 at 08:24 -0500, Peter Relson wrote: Handy for whom? -- Those who want to understand the internals of Java? Yes. -- Anyone else? To be blunt, no one who follows the rules of programming interfaces. All up, sounds like a pretty reasonable definition of java. Shane ... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:33:51 -0800, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: Mark Zelden wrote: Checked that one. Also checked opening / hot topics for MVS, EWCP and John Eells's z/OS 1.11 presentation. There was a Java update session, but I wasn't at it. Nor is the presentation on the SHARE web site. Could it have been a presentation you saw at zBLC? Nope, I'm sure it was SHARE at Denver and it was an open session. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:06:04 -0600, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote: On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:38:01 -0600, McKown, John wrote: Roland Schiradin wrote: with IARV64 and USE2GTO32G=YES. I found that parameter in the IARV64 macro. But I don't see anywhere that it is documented. I would guess from the question and answer, that it enables getting 64-bit storage in the 0x8000 to 0x address range? I would infer from the name that it refers to storage between 0x 8000 and 0x0007 [2 GiB to 32 GiB). But I had no idea there was so large a hole, nor what the rationale for it might be. The hole is (was) only from 2G to 4G. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:24:41 -0500, Peter Relson rel...@us.ibm.com wrote: The USE2GTO32G parameter is intentionally not documented. It is for IBM use only. The prolog of macro IARV64 confirms this, showing the classification of USE2GTO32G as NONE This is where some doc on the clever usage of this storage from Java would come in handy. Handy for whom? -- Those who want to understand the internals of Java? Yes. -- Anyone else? To be blunt, no one who follows the rules of programming interfaces. Handy to this discussion and to those that want a better understanding of z/OS internals. I think I understand what was / is being done, but I don't want to post any misinformation. Not that I haven't done that before, I just try not to do it intentionally. :-) Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 12:30:55 -0800, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: Tnx for all reply will change the display in SHOWzOS. Roland Roland Schiradin wrote: is the dead zone above the bar gone for all (no longer protected) or just asids with IARV64 and USE2GTO32G=YES. Only the latter case... -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
Mark Zelden wrote: Checked that one. Also checked opening / hot topics for MVS, EWCP and John Eells's z/OS 1.11 presentation. There was a Java update session, but I wasn't at it. Nor is the presentation on the SHARE web site. Could it have been a presentation you saw at zBLC? Nope, I'm sure it was SHARE at Denver and it was an open session. I went to that presentation, it was Bob Rogers' presentation, z/OS 1.11 Sysprog Goody Bag. I found quite a bit of notes that I took from that session on Java and the 2GB - 4GB bar. But when I look at the presentation on the SHARE website, there's not much mention of it and the presentation looks incomplete. There's no adios or questions? slide and the presentation just seems to stop in the middle. Adam Johanson IMS Systems Programming USAA -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:05:28 -0600, Adam Johanson adam.johan...@usaa.com wrote: Mark Zelden wrote: Checked that one. Also checked opening / hot topics for MVS, EWCP and John Eells's z/OS 1.11 presentation. There was a Java update session, but I wasn't at it. Nor is the presentation on the SHARE web site. Could it have been a presentation you saw at zBLC? Nope, I'm sure it was SHARE at Denver and it was an open session. I went to that presentation, it was Bob Rogers' presentation, z/OS 1.11 Sysprog Goody Bag. I found quite a bit of notes that I took from that session on Java and the 2GB - 4GB bar. But when I look at the presentation on the SHARE website, there's not much mention of it and the presentation looks incomplete. There's no adios or questions? slide and the presentation just seems to stop in the middle. Adam Johanson IMS Systems Programming USAA Thanks Adam. You're right! I looked back at my notes and the only note next to that session is OA26294 - dead area. I missed that yesterday when looking through them (but I did look at the presentation and didn't see anything). Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
Mark Zelden wrote: Thanks Adam. You're right! I looked back at my notes and the only note next to that session is OA26294 - dead area. I missed that yesterday when looking through them (but I did look at the presentation and didn't see anything). This just goes to show how valuable attending an on-site SHARE presentation really is. Not everything makes it into the proceedings. Also, I'm impressed that so many people take notes without handouts... ;-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 08:12:00 -0800, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: Mark Zelden wrote: Thanks Adam. You're right! I looked back at my notes and the only note next to that session is OA26294 - dead area. I missed that yesterday when looking through them (but I did look at the presentation and didn't see anything). This just goes to show how valuable attending an on-site SHARE presentation really is. Not everything makes it into the proceedings. Also, I'm impressed that so many people take notes without handouts... ;-) I understand why there aren't handouts for most sessions now, but I take much better notes with them and since the context is around the note, they make more sense and of course there is much less to write and you can figure it out easier when you are looking at it 6 months later. My notes this past SHARE consisted of the day, time, session number, session name and sometimes nothing after that other than an APAR reference or keyword that I thought would jog my memory later on. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html Mark -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
In a message dated 12/31/2009 10:42:48 A.M. Central Standard Time, mark.zel...@zurichna.com writes: My notes this past SHARE consisted of the day, time, session number, session name and sometimes nothing after that other than an APAR reference or keyword that I thought would jog my memory later on. Probably a .99 App on your droid? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
Yes, it quite definitely at SHARE Denver, I was there too. Mark Zelden mark.zel...@zurichna.com 12/31/09 9:02 AM On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 22:33:51 -0800, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: Could it have been a presentation you saw at zBLC? Nope, I'm sure it was SHARE at Denver and it was an open session. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html CONFIDENTIALITY/EMAIL NOTICE: The material in this transmission contains confidential and privileged information intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this material in error and that any forwarding, copying, printing, distribution, use or disclosure of the material is strictly prohibited. If you have received this material in error, please (i) do not read it, (ii) reply to the sender that you received the message in error, and (iii) erase or destroy the material. Emails are not secure and can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
Mark Zelden wrote: My notes this past SHARE consisted of the day, time, session number, session name and sometimes nothing after that other than an APAR reference or keyword that I thought would jog my memory later on. How's that working for you? :-) -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 11:09:58 -0800, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: Mark Zelden wrote: My notes this past SHARE consisted of the day, time, session number, session name and sometimes nothing after that other than an APAR reference or keyword that I thought would jog my memory later on. How's that working for you? :-) :-) Wouldn't have been so bad if I had actually seen what I wrote, but you can't text search hand written paper (at least without scanning it, which wouldn't be able to read my chicken scratch anyway). The last few SHAREs I was at, I also took these type of notes on my laptop, but most of the rooms I was in at Denver didn't have tables and I decided not to use it. My plan was to re-write those notes in electronic format right after SHARE while my memory was fresh. yeah right... Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
dead zone
Hi folks, is the dead zone above the bar gone for all (no longer protected) or just asids with IARV64 and USE2GTO32G=YES. Regards and happy new year Roland -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
Roland Schiradin wrote: is the dead zone above the bar gone for all (no longer protected) or just asids with IARV64 and USE2GTO32G=YES. Only the latter case... -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 2:31 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: dead zone Roland Schiradin wrote: is the dead zone above the bar gone for all (no longer protected) or just asids with IARV64 and USE2GTO32G=YES. Only the latter case... -- Edward E Jaffe I found that parameter in the IARV64 macro. But I don't see anywhere that it is documented. I would guess from the question and answer, that it enables getting 64-bit storage in the 0x8000 to 0x address range? -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 12:30:55 -0800, Edward Jaffe edja...@phoenixsoftware.com wrote: Roland Schiradin wrote: is the dead zone above the bar gone for all (no longer protected) or just asids with IARV64 and USE2GTO32G=YES. Only the latter case... I recall a session / slides at SHARE in Denver that talked about 64-bit Java V6 using this in order to perform at (or near) the levels of 31-bit, but I can't seem to recall what session it was nor find anything about it in the ones I thought it may have been in. Was I dreaming? Or did someone just put up the slides and it wasn't included in the PDF files. The RSM function to support this came in with OA26294, which just says NEW FUNCTION - JAVA SUPPORT (z/OS 1.8, 1.9 and 1.10). -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
McKown, John wrote: I found that parameter in the IARV64 macro. But I don't see anywhere that it is documented. I would guess from the question and answer, that it enables getting 64-bit storage in the 0x8000 to 0x address range? I'm not sure I would refer to it at 64-bit storage. But, you can now acquire and free large virtual memory objects above 2G and below 4G. -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
-Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:10 PM To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: dead zone McKown, John wrote: I found that parameter in the IARV64 macro. But I don't see anywhere that it is documented. I would guess from the question and answer, that it enables getting 64-bit storage in the 0x8000 to 0x address range? I'm not sure I would refer to it at 64-bit storage. But, you can now acquire and free large virtual memory objects above 2G and below 4G. -- Edward E Jaffe I see why it is not, technically, 64 bit storage. But the program must be AMODE(64) in order to address it. right? And you likely could __NOT__ use it for parms to be passed to other programs or system services, even in AMODE(64). Hum, to me, for me, fairly useless. -- John McKown Systems Engineer IV IT Administrative Services Group HealthMarkets(r) 9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010 (817) 255-3225 phone * (817)-961-6183 cell john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message may contain confidential or proprietary information. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. HealthMarkets(r) is the brand name for products underwritten and issued by the insurance subsidiaries of HealthMarkets, Inc. -The Chesapeake Life Insurance Company(r), Mid-West National Life Insurance Company of TennesseeSM and The MEGA Life and Health Insurance Company.SM -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
McKown, John wrote: I see why it is not, technically, 64 bit storage. But the program must be AMODE(64) in order to address it. right? Good point! The storage is not accessible to 31-bit programs. There is no 32-bit mode! -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:20:25 -0600 McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: : -Original Message- : From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List : [mailto:ibm-m...@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Edward Jaffe : Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 3:10 PM : To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu : Subject: Re: dead zone : McKown, John wrote: : I found that parameter in the IARV64 macro. But I don't see : anywhere that it is documented. I would guess from the : question and answer, that it enables getting 64-bit storage : in the 0x8000 to 0x address range? : I'm not sure I would refer to it at 64-bit storage. But, : you can now : acquire and free large virtual memory objects above 2G and below 4G. :I see why it is not, technically, 64 bit storage. But the program must be AMODE(64) in order to address it. right? Yes. :And you likely could __NOT__ use it for parms to be passed to other programs or system services, even in AMODE(64). Hum, to me, for me, fairly useless. Why not? Use a 64 bit pointer. The only reason the black hole was created was because the high order bit issue where a 64 bit program passed an uncleaned 31 bit address may overlay a different area. But if all 4 byte addresses are clean there is no reason to not use the x'8000'-x'' area. -- Binyamin Dissen bdis...@dissensoftware.com http://www.dissensoftware.com Director, Dissen Software, Bar Grill - Israel Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me, you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain. I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems, especially those from irresponsible companies. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:20:25 -0600, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: I see why it is not, technically, 64 bit storage. It's 32-bit storage. But the program must be AMODE(64) in order to address it. right? I suppose (along with the supporting code / PTFs / bit in the RCE set). And you likely could __NOT__ use it for parms to be passed to other programs or system services, even in AMODE(64). Hum, to me, for me, fairly useless. This is where some doc on the clever usage of this storage from Java would come in handy. Speaking of Java... and my last post about this. Maybe it was a special test version of Java 64-bit and the support isn't there yet? I did a quick search and came up empty. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
I think the session you are referring to was Bob Rogers', maybe the goody bag? Mark Zelden mark.zel...@zurichna.com 12/30/09 4:45 PM On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:20:25 -0600, McKown, John john.mck...@healthmarkets.com wrote: I see why it is not, technically, 64 bit storage. It's 32-bit storage. But the program must be AMODE(64) in order to address it. right? I suppose (along with the supporting code / PTFs / bit in the RCE set). And you likely could __NOT__ use it for parms to be passed to other programs or system services, even in AMODE(64). Hum, to me, for me, fairly useless. This is where some doc on the clever usage of this storage from Java would come in handy. Speaking of Java... and my last post about this. Maybe it was a special test version of Java 64-bit and the support isn't there yet? I did a quick search and came up empty. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html CONFIDENTIALITY/EMAIL NOTICE: The material in this transmission contains confidential and privileged information intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this material in error and that any forwarding, copying, printing, distribution, use or disclosure of the material is strictly prohibited. If you have received this material in error, please (i) do not read it, (ii) reply to the sender that you received the message in error, and (iii) erase or destroy the material. Emails are not secure and can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:50:43 -0500, Scott Rowe scott.r...@joann.com wrote: I think the session you are referring to was Bob Rogers', maybe the goody bag? Checked that one. Also checked opening / hot topics for MVS, EWCP and John Eells's z/OS 1.11 presentation. There was a Java update session, but I wasn't at it. Nor is the presentation on the SHARE web site. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:45:53 -0600, Mark Zelden wrote: On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:20:25 -0600, McKown, John wrote: I see why it is not, technically, 64 bit storage. It's 32-bit storage. What do you mean by that, Mark? AFAIK, when someone refers to storage as 64-bit, they are speaking of the addressing mode required to address it. Similarly, 24-bit storage or 31-bit storage refers to the minimum addressing mode required to address it. You wouldn't refer to PSA as 10-bit storage, would you? You can't run z/OS on a 360-67. g,d,r -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:34:42 -0600, Tom Marchant m42tom-ibmm...@yahoo.com wrote: On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:45:53 -0600, Mark Zelden wrote: On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 15:20:25 -0600, McKown, John wrote: I see why it is not, technically, 64 bit storage. It's 32-bit storage. What do you mean by that, Mark? It's not 31-bit and it isn't 64-bit either. I was trying to be cute. I meant to put a smiley after that sentence. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html AFAIK, when someone refers to storage as 64-bit, they are speaking of the addressing mode required to address it. Similarly, 24-bit storage or 31-bit storage refers to the minimum addressing mode required to address it. You wouldn't refer to PSA as 10-bit storage, would you? You can't run z/OS on a 360-67. g,d,r -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 14:38:01 -0600, McKown, John wrote: Roland Schiradin wrote: with IARV64 and USE2GTO32G=YES. I found that parameter in the IARV64 macro. But I don't see anywhere that it is documented. I would guess from the question and answer, that it enables getting 64-bit storage in the 0x8000 to 0x address range? I would infer from the name that it refers to storage between 0x 8000 and 0x0007 [2 GiB to 32 GiB). But I had no idea there was so large a hole, nor what the rationale for it might be. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
In any case, I'm pretty sure it was one of Bob's, you could always email him. Mark Zelden mark.zel...@zurichna.com 12/30/09 5:09 PM On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:50:43 -0500, Scott Rowe scott.r...@joann.com wrote: I think the session you are referring to was Bob Rogers', maybe the goody bag? Checked that one. Also checked opening / hot topics for MVS, EWCP and John Eells's z/OS 1.11 presentation. There was a Java update session, but I wasn't at it. Nor is the presentation on the SHARE web site. Mark -- Mark Zelden Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group - ZFUS G-ITO mailto:mark.zel...@zurichna.com z/OS Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/ Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html CONFIDENTIALITY/EMAIL NOTICE: The material in this transmission contains confidential and privileged information intended only for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this material in error and that any forwarding, copying, printing, distribution, use or disclosure of the material is strictly prohibited. If you have received this material in error, please (i) do not read it, (ii) reply to the sender that you received the message in error, and (iii) erase or destroy the material. Emails are not secure and can be intercepted, amended, lost or destroyed, or contain viruses. You are deemed to have accepted these risks if you communicate with us by email. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
Re: dead zone
Mark Zelden wrote: Checked that one. Also checked opening / hot topics for MVS, EWCP and John Eells's z/OS 1.11 presentation. There was a Java update session, but I wasn't at it. Nor is the presentation on the SHARE web site. Could it have been a presentation you saw at zBLC? -- Edward E Jaffe Phoenix Software International, Inc 831 Parkview Drive North El Segundo, CA 90245 310-338-0400 x318 edja...@phoenixsoftware.com http://www.phoenixsoftware.com/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@bama.ua.edu with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
