Re: IBM z890 Update.

[Connor Krukosky]

On 12/4/2015 11:26 PM, Tony Harminc wrote:

Your box has a floppy drive? Really?

The SE does yes.

Just so I'm clear... Your z890 plugs in to your SCSI disk box, but it won't
IPL from it? That is, these are separate features? If I have this right,
then it should be possible to write a small program that could, at worst,
be keyed in to storage. This program would then perform the I/O
instructions to emulate the SCSI IPL. Sort of like the way VM emulates IPL
in a virtual machine. Well maybe this is just what FC 9904 does...


So let me explain how everything is attached:
I have an old HP SCSI hard drive array attached to a SAN Data Gateway 
model 2108-G07.
Then I have that go into a SAN switch via SW FCP connection SAN switch 
is model 2005-b16.
Finally I have a LW fiber SFP in one of the ports of the SAN switch 
which then goes into the mainframe through a FICON-LX module.

The FICON port is configured as an FCP interface in the IOCDS.

I am not sure how one would go about writing such code as I am so new to 
all this but I will say that it sounds feasible...

I just came across this though:
http://linuxvm.org/present/SHARE104/S9259vs.pdf
Which mentions some tools specifically "zipl" which sounds like it may 
be-able to help me?

Found it available to download here along with quite a few other tools:
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/linux390/s390-tools-overview.html

I must get to bed now and will be out this weekend, but I will 
definitely look into this late next week after my finals at college.


-Connor K

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Re: OT: What's a "ton" of JCL?

[Ed Gould]

Haven't you seen the WORD "JCL" on card boxes I have:)

Ed

On Dec 4, 2015, at 6:48 PM, Thomas Kern wrote:


I have never written any JCL on the boxes, just labels and notes.

/Tom Kern

On 12/04/2015 00:33, Ted MacNEIL wrote:

Is that counting the weight of the boxes themselves?

-
-teD
-
   Original Message
From: Thomas Kern
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 00:14
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: OT: What's a "ton" of JCL?

Approximately 274905 cards.

2000 cards per box is about 14.55 lbs.
137.45 boxes per ton(2000lbs)

It is Friday now.

/Tom Kern

On 12/03/2015 22:40, Joel C. Ewing wrote:

On 12/03/2015 12:16 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 10:43:38 -0600, Joel C. Ewing wrote:

... Because DOS/VS had native support for source and object
libraries, those were kept online, but there was no decent native
support to effectively submit production job JCL from  
libraries ...



Astonishing. You could RYO editor but not RYO "SUBMIT".
OLE' was envisioned and implemented by one person, James Stevens,  
the
head of Tech Services at a time when it was a one or two man  
operation
(I raised the body count to 3) -- he probably created OLE' as  
late night
entertainment for his own convenience and benefit to make  
development of
his Mini-Task on-line environment and other utilities less  
tedious. It
went company-wide since it significantly improved the efficiency  
of 40+
programmers versus fiddling with individual cards in a deck. JCL  
didn't
get changed as much and Operator's time was considered less  
valuable;
and since they only picked up the entire job deck and moved it  
around
as a unit it wasn't that obvious that a significant amount of  
time would

be saved by avoiding the use of decks for production JCL.

OLE' did have the ability to submit jobs to DOS, but the interactive
OLE' work areas assigned to individual users were each a pre-defined
number of "pages" of 24 80-byte records and the total size of all  
areas
was constrained by the capacity of a 3330. With those space  
constraints,
the normal practice was to keep in one's OLE' area(s) only data  
actively
being edited along with some shorter job streams used for testing  
and

development. It would have been possible to submit a short batch job
from OLE' to extract a production job stream from a source  
library and

load it into part of the an OLE' area (as was done for source code
editing), wait for that job to run, and then submit the  
production job

from OLE'; but by the time an Operator had done that they could have
already loaded a physical deck. There just didn't seem to be enough
cost-benefit to justify converting JCL from cards to DASD until MVS
changed the equation.

... and the
company was averse to spending on "unneeded" additional  
software, so
production JCL was created in OLE' but punched and kept on  
cards for use

by Operations.


The supplies must have been cheap.
My impression was that the volume of new cards was low enough to  
be a
trivial cost compared to the cost of printer paper, and I never  
saw a

card filing cabinet wear out. Maintenance on the card reader/punch
became more of a nuisance and issue after the units aged at least a
decade, but the cost of that was a minor part of the hardware
maintenance contract.
When we started DOS/VSE to MVS/XA migration in 1985, we were  
already
running the maximum of four, shared-SPOOL DOS/VSE systems under  
VM ...



Was that limit imposed by VM or by the DOS/VSE shared spool? I'd
suspect the latter.

-- gil

Definitely was not a VM limitation. DOS/VSE had a shared "lock"  
file to
coordinate library and other inter-system sharing and that file  
could be
shared by a maximum of four systems (and with four systems one  
did at

times see performance problems with that drive). I can't remember at
this point whether the SPOOLER ("POWER"), was limited to four  
systems
for shared spool because it depended on the "lock" file or  
whether it

had its own internal design limits as well.

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Re: IBM z890 Update.

[Porowski, Ken]

I would imagine that anything requiring microcode/millicode would be impossible 
without IBM's blessing.  Maybe you could get a one-time exception as long as 
you have no commercial (including development of Mainframe products) usage 
planned for your system..   Of course IBM would not want development on older 
systems regardless.  Anything that gives life to off support systems (at this 
point z890/z990 and possibly z114/Z196)  would be strongly discouraged.  JMHO 
and ICBW.  Even if you own an older off support system I would bet that IBM 
would give you an incentive (however small) to get the older hardware out of 
the market.  Makes sense from an IBM business perspective even if you want to 
continue running your old 360/370/434x/438x/308x/309x/9672/z800/z900 etc. 
Upwards and downwards compatibility is a two edged sword.  Positive in 
some/many cases but hindering advancement and condoning complacency (for better 
or worse) in others. What other system exists that will continue to run 20+ 
year old mission critical code without failing (even if it is inefficient by 
today's standards)?



CIT | Ken Porowski | VP Mainframe Engineering | Information Technology | +1 973 
740 5459 (tel) | ken.porow...@cit.com




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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of R.S.
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 6:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] IBM z890 Update.

AFAIK SCSI IPL was paid feature, so it would be piracy to share it.
Note, this is rather "hardware piracy". ;-) I'm not sure about terms and 
conditions, but possibly it is allowed to transfer such license, so someone 
could give it to you from some no longer used machine.

BTW: You can obtain some CKD disks and install Linux on 3390 devices. I think 
it's more funny. Last but not least: it does not require SCSI IPL.




--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 2015-12-04 o 23:39, Connor Krukosky pisze:
> Ok so I'm sure many have been wondering what happened with the z890.
> I have after many road blocks I have gotten the FCP SCSI storage
> working and actually did complete an install of CentOS 4.7 on it last
> night!
> But the new problem is IPLing said install. I would be-able to
> directly IPL from SCSI if I had Feature Code FC 9904, which I do not.
> This was supposedly a free Feature Code back in the day but was only
> available till Dec. 31, 2007.
> So if anyone has FC 9904 and is able to send me a copy (If that's how
> that works? I assume this is loaded into the system via floppy.) it
> would make my life a million times easier :)
> Otherwise I will have to find a way to mount the drives in an
> installer and boot with the installer.
> Which I have yet to find a way to do this, any documented way anyway,
> I will have to play with it.
> This should be last step to have Linux running!
> So hopefully someone can get me a copy of FC 9904 or I can find some
> other way to IPL.
>
> -Connor K
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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Re: IBM z890 Update.

[Tony Harminc]

On 4 December 2015 at 17:39, Connor Krukosky 
wrote:

> Ok so I'm sure many have been wondering what happened with the z890.
>

Indeed.


> I have after many road blocks I have gotten the FCP SCSI storage working
> and actually did complete an install of CentOS 4.7 on it last night!
>

Woo-hoo!


> But the new problem is IPLing said install. I would be-able to directly
> IPL from SCSI if I had Feature Code FC 9904, which I do not.
> This was supposedly a free Feature Code back in the day but was only
> available till Dec. 31, 2007.
> So if anyone has FC 9904 and is able to send me a copy (If that's how that
> works? I assume this is loaded into the system via floppy.) it would make
> my life a million times easier :)
>

Your box has a floppy drive? Really?


> Otherwise I will have to find a way to mount the drives in an installer
> and boot with the installer.
> Which I have yet to find a way to do this, any documented way anyway, I
> will have to play with it.
> This should be last step to have Linux running!
> So hopefully someone can get me a copy of FC 9904 or I can find some other
> way to IPL.
>

Just so I'm clear... Your z890 plugs in to your SCSI disk box, but it won't
IPL from it? That is, these are separate features? If I have this right,
then it should be possible to write a small program that could, at worst,
be keyed in to storage. This program would then perform the I/O
instructions to emulate the SCSI IPL. Sort of like the way VM emulates IPL
in a virtual machine. Well maybe this is just what FC 9904 does...

I must say that CCW programming is a lot simpler than what I see of TCWs
and such.

Tony H.

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Re: length of "executable"

[John McKown]

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Frank Swarbrick  wrote:

> Currently we have some assembler 'data only programs' that we load under
> CICS and point to, i.e.:
>
> EXEC CICS LOAD
> PROGRAM ('XML1V2K')
> SET (ADDRESS OF CRD-SOURCE-AREA)
> FLENGTH (CRD-SOURCE-LEN)
> END-EXEC
>
> Now field CDR-SOURCE-AREA is mapped to the data.
>
> I need to do something similar in a batch COBOL program.  I am able to use
> the LOAD macro to get the address, but I also need to get the length.  I've
> tried using the EXTINFO parameter of LOAD, but the length it provides is
> not the length I am looking for.  For example, one of these 'programs' is
> named XML1V2K.  Here's what it looks like in ISPF:
>  Name PromptAlias-of Size  TTR AC   AM   RM
> XML1V2K36B0   0020FE   0031  ANY
>
> Also under CICS:
> I PROG(XML1V2K)
> STATUS:  RESULTS - OVERTYPE TO MODIFY
>  Prog(XML1V2K ) Leng(014000) Ass Pro Ena Pri Ced
>
> 36B0 hex = 14000 decimal, and that is the length I am expecting.  With
> LOAD/EXTINFO I am getting "1 extent, with a length of 4000 hex (16384
> decimal)".  I am guessing this is because its either being "rounded up" to
> the size of a full extent, or maybe including binder information or
> something.
>

​I don't know what EXTINFO refers to off-hand, but supposedly R1 upon
return contains the length, in double word increments, of the module in
bytes 1..3 .​

 LOAD EP=XML1V2K,LOADPT=LOADPT
 ST R0,EPA
 *ICM R1,B'1000',X'00' CLEAR BYTE 0
 NILH R1,X'00FF' CLEAR BITS 32..35 OF 64-BIT R1
 SLA R1,3 MULTIPLY BY 8 TO GET SIZE IN BYTES.





>
> So how can I get the number I am looking for?  It's obviously available
> somewhere, since both ISPF and CICS can get to it.  I just don't know where
> to look.
>
> Thanks!
> Frank
>

-- 

Schrodinger's backup: The condition of any backup is unknown until a
restore is attempted.

Yoda of Borg, we are. Futile, resistance is, yes. Assimilated, you will be.

He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: IBM z890 Update.

[Mike Schwab]

A Luminex box can emulate CKD on SAN FBA.  Does anyone have a used one
available?

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 6:36 PM, Connor Krukosky
 wrote:
> I know it was a free option because I asked the price from someone at IBM
> and informed me it was actually a free feature code.
> But they just don't offer it anymore.
>
> "Feature Code 9904 was available at no charge back in the day. Unfortunately
> Feature Code 9904 was only available for ordering from IBM through December
> 31, 2007.
>
> You could try putting out a request in IBM-MAIN for Feature Code 9904 for
> your machine to see if anyone can help, but don't be too surprised if this
> just isn't possible to obtain. :-("
>
> Its likely a long shot but I thought I'd ask anyway.
>
> A DS6000 host controller, not even the whole chassis and drives, has a
> minimum price on ebay at the moment for $1,800.
> ESCON/FICON based DASD is EXPENSIVE!
> If someone has some storage laying around they don't need and are in a
> reasonable distance from me I'd greatly appreciate it.
> But I think I have to stick with SCSI storage as of now due to price of
> 'real' storage.
> It'll definitely be way more than the 50-100 or so bucks I spent on a whole
> 3TB SCSI storage box, SAN box, and SAN switch.
>
> -Connor K
>
> On 12/4/2015 6:54 PM, R.S. wrote:
>>
>> AFAIK SCSI IPL was paid feature, so it would be piracy to share it. Note,
>> this is rather "hardware piracy". ;-)
>> I'm not sure about terms and conditions, but possibly it is allowed to
>> transfer such license, so someone could give it to you from some no longer
>> used machine.
>>
>> BTW: You can obtain some CKD disks and install Linux on 3390 devices. I
>> think it's more funny. Last but not least: it does not require SCSI IPL.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: length of "executable"

[Mike Schwab]

A PDS load module block is a multiple of 1K.  PDSEs are built on
linear datasets (VSAM) so it might be a 4K multiple.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Frank Swarbrick
 wrote:
> Currently we have some assembler 'data only programs' that we load under CICS 
> and point to, i.e.:
>
> EXEC CICS LOAD
> PROGRAM ('XML1V2K')
> SET (ADDRESS OF CRD-SOURCE-AREA)
> FLENGTH (CRD-SOURCE-LEN)
> END-EXEC
>
> Now field CDR-SOURCE-AREA is mapped to the data.
>
> I need to do something similar in a batch COBOL program.  I am able to use 
> the LOAD macro to get the address, but I also need to get the length.  I've 
> tried using the EXTINFO parameter of LOAD, but the length it provides is not 
> the length I am looking for.  For example, one of these 'programs' is named 
> XML1V2K.  Here's what it looks like in ISPF:
>  Name PromptAlias-of Size  TTR AC   AM   RM
> XML1V2K36B0   0020FE   0031  ANY
>
> Also under CICS:
> I PROG(XML1V2K)
> STATUS:  RESULTS - OVERTYPE TO MODIFY
>  Prog(XML1V2K ) Leng(014000) Ass Pro Ena Pri Ced
>
> 36B0 hex = 14000 decimal, and that is the length I am expecting.  With 
> LOAD/EXTINFO I am getting "1 extent, with a length of 4000 hex (16384 
> decimal)".  I am guessing this is because its either being "rounded up" to 
> the size of a full extent, or maybe including binder information or something.
>
> So how can I get the number I am looking for?  It's obviously available 
> somewhere, since both ISPF and CICS can get to it.  I just don't know where 
> to look.
>
> Thanks!
> Frank
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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length of "executable"

[Frank Swarbrick]

Currently we have some assembler 'data only programs' that we load under CICS 
and point to, i.e.:

EXEC CICS LOAD  
PROGRAM ('XML1V2K')   
SET (ADDRESS OF CRD-SOURCE-AREA)
FLENGTH (CRD-SOURCE-LEN)
END-EXEC

Now field CDR-SOURCE-AREA is mapped to the data.

I need to do something similar in a batch COBOL program.  I am able to use the 
LOAD macro to get the address, but I also need to get the length.  I've tried 
using the EXTINFO parameter of LOAD, but the length it provides is not the 
length I am looking for.  For example, one of these 'programs' is named 
XML1V2K.  Here's what it looks like in ISPF:
 Name PromptAlias-of Size  TTR AC   AM   RM 
XML1V2K36B0   0020FE   0031  ANY

Also under CICS:
I PROG(XML1V2K)  
STATUS:  RESULTS - OVERTYPE TO MODIFY
 Prog(XML1V2K ) Leng(014000) Ass Pro Ena Pri Ced 

36B0 hex = 14000 decimal, and that is the length I am expecting.  With 
LOAD/EXTINFO I am getting "1 extent, with a length of 4000 hex (16384 
decimal)".  I am guessing this is because its either being "rounded up" to the 
size of a full extent, or maybe including binder information or something.

So how can I get the number I am looking for?  It's obviously available 
somewhere, since both ISPF and CICS can get to it.  I just don't know where to 
look.

Thanks!
Frank

  
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Re: OT: What's a "ton" of JCL?

[Thomas Kern]

I have never written any JCL on the boxes, just labels and notes.

/Tom Kern

On 12/04/2015 00:33, Ted MacNEIL wrote:

Is that counting the weight of the boxes themselves?

-
-teD
-
   Original Message
From: Thomas Kern
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 00:14
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: OT: What's a "ton" of JCL?

Approximately 274905 cards.

2000 cards per box is about 14.55 lbs.
137.45 boxes per ton(2000lbs)

It is Friday now.

/Tom Kern

On 12/03/2015 22:40, Joel C. Ewing wrote:

On 12/03/2015 12:16 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 10:43:38 -0600, Joel C. Ewing wrote:

... Because DOS/VS had native support for source and object
libraries, those were kept online, but there was no decent native
support to effectively submit production job JCL from libraries ...


Astonishing. You could RYO editor but not RYO "SUBMIT".

OLE' was envisioned and implemented by one person, James Stevens, the
head of Tech Services at a time when it was a one or two man operation
(I raised the body count to 3) -- he probably created OLE' as late night
entertainment for his own convenience and benefit to make development of
his Mini-Task on-line environment and other utilities less tedious. It
went company-wide since it significantly improved the efficiency of 40+
programmers versus fiddling with individual cards in a deck. JCL didn't
get changed as much and Operator's time was considered less valuable;
and since they only picked up the entire job deck and moved it around
as a unit it wasn't that obvious that a significant amount of time would
be saved by avoiding the use of decks for production JCL.

OLE' did have the ability to submit jobs to DOS, but the interactive
OLE' work areas assigned to individual users were each a pre-defined
number of "pages" of 24 80-byte records and the total size of all areas
was constrained by the capacity of a 3330. With those space constraints,
the normal practice was to keep in one's OLE' area(s) only data actively
being edited along with some shorter job streams used for testing and
development. It would have been possible to submit a short batch job
from OLE' to extract a production job stream from a source library and
load it into part of the an OLE' area (as was done for source code
editing), wait for that job to run, and then submit the production job
from OLE'; but by the time an Operator had done that they could have
already loaded a physical deck. There just didn't seem to be enough
cost-benefit to justify converting JCL from cards to DASD until MVS
changed the equation.

... and the
company was averse to spending on "unneeded" additional software, so
production JCL was created in OLE' but punched and kept on cards for use
by Operations.


The supplies must have been cheap.

My impression was that the volume of new cards was low enough to be a
trivial cost compared to the cost of printer paper, and I never saw a
card filing cabinet wear out. Maintenance on the card reader/punch
became more of a nuisance and issue after the units aged at least a
decade, but the cost of that was a minor part of the hardware
maintenance contract.

When we started DOS/VSE to MVS/XA migration in 1985, we were already
running the maximum of four, shared-SPOOL DOS/VSE systems under VM ...


Was that limit imposed by VM or by the DOS/VSE shared spool? I'd
suspect the latter.

-- gil


Definitely was not a VM limitation. DOS/VSE had a shared "lock" file to
coordinate library and other inter-system sharing and that file could be
shared by a maximum of four systems (and with four systems one did at
times see performance problems with that drive). I can't remember at
this point whether the SPOOLER ("POWER"), was limited to four systems
for shared spool because it depended on the "lock" file or whether it
had its own internal design limits as well.


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Re: IBM z890 Update.

[Connor Krukosky]

I know it was a free option because I asked the price from someone at 
IBM and informed me it was actually a free feature code.

But they just don't offer it anymore.

"Feature Code 9904 was available at no charge back in the day. 
Unfortunately Feature Code 9904 was only available for ordering from IBM 
through December 31, 2007.


You could try putting out a request in IBM-MAIN for Feature Code 9904 
for your machine to see if anyone can help, but don't be too surprised 
if this just isn't possible to obtain. :-("


Its likely a long shot but I thought I'd ask anyway.

A DS6000 host controller, not even the whole chassis and drives, has a 
minimum price on ebay at the moment for $1,800.

ESCON/FICON based DASD is EXPENSIVE!
If someone has some storage laying around they don't need and are in a 
reasonable distance from me I'd greatly appreciate it.
But I think I have to stick with SCSI storage as of now due to price of 
'real' storage.
It'll definitely be way more than the 50-100 or so bucks I spent on a 
whole 3TB SCSI storage box, SAN box, and SAN switch.


-Connor K

On 12/4/2015 6:54 PM, R.S. wrote:
AFAIK SCSI IPL was paid feature, so it would be piracy to share it. 
Note, this is rather "hardware piracy". ;-)
I'm not sure about terms and conditions, but possibly it is allowed to 
transfer such license, so someone could give it to you from some no 
longer used machine.


BTW: You can obtain some CKD disks and install Linux on 3390 devices. 
I think it's more funny. Last but not least: it does not require SCSI 
IPL.







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Re: IBM z890 Update.

[R.S.]

AFAIK SCSI IPL was paid feature, so it would be piracy to share it. 
Note, this is rather "hardware piracy". ;-)
I'm not sure about terms and conditions, but possibly it is allowed to 
transfer such license, so someone could give it to you from some no 
longer used machine.


BTW: You can obtain some CKD disks and install Linux on 3390 devices. I 
think it's more funny. Last but not least: it does not require SCSI IPL.





--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 2015-12-04 o 23:39, Connor Krukosky pisze:

Ok so I'm sure many have been wondering what happened with the z890.
I have after many road blocks I have gotten the FCP SCSI storage 
working and actually did complete an install of CentOS 4.7 on it last 
night!
But the new problem is IPLing said install. I would be-able to 
directly IPL from SCSI if I had Feature Code FC 9904, which I do not.
This was supposedly a free Feature Code back in the day but was only 
available till Dec. 31, 2007.
So if anyone has FC 9904 and is able to send me a copy (If that's how 
that works? I assume this is loaded into the system via floppy.) it 
would make my life a million times easier :)
Otherwise I will have to find a way to mount the drives in an 
installer and boot with the installer.
Which I have yet to find a way to do this, any documented way anyway, 
I will have to play with it.

This should be last step to have Linux running!
So hopefully someone can get me a copy of FC 9904 or I can find some 
other way to IPL.


-Connor K

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <5661ca41.2040...@codemagus.com>, on 12/04/2015
   at 05:15 PM, Patrick Hayward  said:

>Some people have beaten the lottery!

They're called ""The House".
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: HMC Defining a new LOAD "object" under the TEST Lpar group.

[John Mattson]

Thanks, everyone, Especially Dana.  It was easy once you pointed the way.
Wow, HMC has changed a lot in the last 15 years, but still a bit quirky.

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IBM z890 Update.

[Connor Krukosky]

Ok so I'm sure many have been wondering what happened with the z890.
I have after many road blocks I have gotten the FCP SCSI storage working 
and actually did complete an install of CentOS 4.7 on it last night!
But the new problem is IPLing said install. I would be-able to directly 
IPL from SCSI if I had Feature Code FC 9904, which I do not.
This was supposedly a free Feature Code back in the day but was only 
available till Dec. 31, 2007.
So if anyone has FC 9904 and is able to send me a copy (If that's how 
that works? I assume this is loaded into the system via floppy.) it 
would make my life a million times easier :)
Otherwise I will have to find a way to mount the drives in an installer 
and boot with the installer.
Which I have yet to find a way to do this, any documented way anyway, I 
will have to play with it.

This should be last step to have Linux running!
So hopefully someone can get me a copy of FC 9904 or I can find some 
other way to IPL.


-Connor K

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Ted MacNEIL]

Easier to get a Royal Flush.
265,000:1

-
-teD
-
  Original Message  
From: Vince Coen
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 16:17
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation - UK) does *NOT* run any lottery.

There are more than one (and a bit) different lotteries licensed in the
UK and no I do not subscribe to any.

The odds as you point out are horrendous.

Originally it was bad enough with 6 numbers at odds of 14.5M : 1



On 04/12/15 14:18, Shane Ginnane wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 07:34:25 -0600, John McKown wrote:
>
>> ​too true. I may even start playing the state lottery, even though that's
>> not really a good idea. I understand enough statistics to know that. ​
> Don't do that.
> I was listening to the BBC overnight a few weeks back, and they must have 
> been amending their lottery to have more numbers so the ultimate prize was 
> bigger.
> They had a maths/stats prof on - he said for the current lottery, if you 
> stood in line for six and a half minute waiting for a ticket you had more 
> chance of dying in that 6.5 minutes than winning the money.
> They added more numbers, so the time delta went down accordingly.
>
> Sobering  ;0)
>
> Shane ...
>
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Re: HMC Defining a new LOAD "object" under the TEST Lpar group.

[Field, Alan]

On our HMC (2.13) under DAILY I have GROUPING (logged on as SYSPROG).  Don't 
remember back to 2.9.2. Don’t think it has changed though. 

Alan Field
Systems Engineer Principal
Blue Cross Blue Shield of MN

651.662.3546

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Mattson
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 3:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: HMC Defining a new LOAD "object" under the TEST Lpar group.

Inherited an HMC for my z9 at 2.9.2 level.  Trying how to remember how do 
define a new object to activate/load that lpar with my experimental testing 
stuff.  Been beating thru the HMC and SE manuals and cannot find what should be 
the simplest of tasks.
Under GROUPS I have CPC Images, Defined CPCs, PROD and TEST groups Under TEST 
are...
P006163C -
P006163C:TEST (TESTPLEX:TEST)
Test IPL F800

Below Test IPL F800 is
P006163C:TEST (TESTPLEX:TEST)
/* yes again, but clicking on this I can actually set an activation profile */

I want to set up a new "group" similar to "Test IPL F800" called Test IPL TEST
and I guess another occurance of P006163C:TEST (TESTPLEX:TEST)   below it
so that I can use My TESTing Activation profile.

Problem is I cannot figure out how to add anything below "TEST"
I know it will be embarassingly simple once I see it, but I am stumped right 
now.
Is there an HMC Guru in the house?

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Re: HMC Defining a new LOAD "object" under the TEST Lpar group.

[Dana Mitchell]

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 13:19:49 -0800, John Mattson  
wrote:

>Inherited an HMC for my z9 at 2.9.2 level.  Trying how to remember how do
>define a new object to activate/load that lpar with my experimental testing
>stuff.  Been beating thru the HMC and SE manuals and cannot find what

John,

Highlight the one or more CPC images you want in the new group.  Then 
double-click the 'Grouping'  Icon in the Daily  pane.  It should give you the 
option to add them to an existing group or create a new group.   Then you can 
assign what load profile to it you want. 

Hope that helps.

Dana

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HMC Defining a new LOAD "object" under the TEST Lpar group.

[John Mattson]

Inherited an HMC for my z9 at 2.9.2 level.  Trying how to remember how do
define a new object to activate/load that lpar with my experimental testing
stuff.  Been beating thru the HMC and SE manuals and cannot find what
should be the simplest of tasks.
Under GROUPS I have CPC Images, Defined CPCs, PROD and TEST groups
Under TEST are...
P006163C -
P006163C:TEST (TESTPLEX:TEST)
Test IPL F800

Below Test IPL F800 is
P006163C:TEST (TESTPLEX:TEST)
/* yes again, but clicking on this I can actually set an activation profile
*/

I want to set up a new "group" similar to "Test IPL F800" called Test IPL
TEST
and I guess another occurance of P006163C:TEST (TESTPLEX:TEST)   below it
so that I can use My TESTing Activation profile.

Problem is I cannot figure out how to add anything below "TEST"
I know it will be embarassingly simple once I see it, but I am stumped
right now.
Is there an HMC Guru in the house?

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Vince Coen]

The BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation - UK) does *NOT* run any lottery.

There are more than one (and a bit) different lotteries licensed in the
UK and no I do not subscribe to any.

The odds as you point out are horrendous.

Originally it was bad enough with 6 numbers at odds of 14.5M : 1



On 04/12/15 14:18, Shane Ginnane wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 07:34:25 -0600, John McKown wrote:
>
>> ​too true. I may even start playing the state lottery, even though that's
>> not really a good idea. I understand enough statistics to know that. ​
> Don't do that.
> I was listening to the BBC overnight a few weeks back, and they must have 
> been amending their lottery to have more numbers so the ultimate prize was 
> bigger.
> They had a maths/stats prof on - he said for the current lottery, if you 
> stood in line for six and a half minute waiting for a ticket you had more 
> chance of dying in that 6.5 minutes than winning the money.
> They added more numbers, so the time delta went down accordingly.
>
> Sobering   ;0)
>
> Shane ...
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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>


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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Robert Harrison]

IBM has some "IBM EnterPrise Storage Server" books at 
http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/Shelves/EZ2HW125

There is also a smattering of the 3990 manuals there.

Robert Harrison
State of Oklahoma
Office of Management and Enterprise Services.

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Mike Schwab]

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Patrick Hayward  wrote:
> Some people have beaten the lottery!
> http://www.jordanellenberg.com/how-not-to-be-wrong/
>
> A fun book to read.

Or bought 5M tickets (ran out of time trying to get all 7M possible
combinations).
http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/25/us/group-invests-5-million-to-hedge-bets-in-lottery.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

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Re: DFDSS RESTORE with RENUNC

[Joel C. Ewing]

On 12/04/2015 12:56 PM, Toni Cecil wrote:
> Hello,
> I've the following RESTORE SYSIN:
> RESTORE-
> DATASET(INCLUDE(PHAAXCX.FXX122)) -
> RENUNC((PHAAXCX.FXX122,PHAAXCX.FXX122.RO2244V1)) -
> INDDNAME(INPUT)-
> CATALOG-
> SPHERE -
> CANCELERROR
>
> RESTORE runs fine but the output dsn(PHAAXCX.FXX122.RO2244V1) got the same
> SMS characteristics has the input dsn(PHAAXCX.FXX122), it seems that the
> output dsn did not passed through SMS ACS routines.
>
> Is this WAD ?? Doesn't SMS ACS act on the "RENUNCed" dsn??
> I'm on Z/OS V1.13
>
> Any hint is appreciated.
> Many thx, A.Cecilio.
>
>
Perhaps you need the NULLSTORCLAS, and/or NULLMGMTCLAS  options to
override the default dss action of passing STORCLAS MGMTCLAS attributes
of the original dataset to the ACS routines, as the ACS routines may
designed to honor any passed values (similar to the way JCL overrides
are honored) rather than let the new dsname influence a different choice
of values.  If that doesn't work, check out the MGMTCLAS(x) STORCLAS(x)
and BYPASSACS parameters (which may require appropriate RACF authority
to be effective in overriding normal ACS actions).

-- 
Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR   jcew...@acm.org 

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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Mike Schwab]

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Ed Gould  wrote:
>
> Back in the 70's (early) we had a limit of somewhere around 1600 (sorry
> exact number is foggy) devices on MVS.
> In our case we were top heavy in the number of 3270's (local). When IBM
> introduced the 3274-1A (1 UCB 32 devices)  we couldn't migrate off of the 1D
> (local 3274's) fast enough. We had to keep some 1D's for consoles though.
> It allowed us to get the 3850 and the scads of DASD that it needed.
>
> Ed
>
> ps: We had hundreds of people doing data entry on he 3270's
>
000-5FF, 6 * 256 = 1536.
-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: DFDSS RESTORE with RENUNC

[Lizette Koehler]

How is the SMS routines set up?  
Did  you nullify the SMS on the RESTORE.

Can you provide the message from the restore? 

Lizette




> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Toni Cecil
> Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 11:56 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: DFDSS RESTORE with RENUNC
> 
> Hello,
> I've the following RESTORE SYSIN:
> RESTORE-
> DATASET(INCLUDE(PHAAXCX.FXX122)) -
> RENUNC((PHAAXCX.FXX122,PHAAXCX.FXX122.RO2244V1)) -
> INDDNAME(INPUT)-
> CATALOG-
> SPHERE -
> CANCELERROR
> 
> RESTORE runs fine but the output dsn(PHAAXCX.FXX122.RO2244V1) got the same
> SMS characteristics has the input dsn(PHAAXCX.FXX122), it seems that the 
> output dsn
> did not passed through SMS ACS routines.
> 
> Is this WAD ?? Doesn't SMS ACS act on the "RENUNCed" dsn??
> I'm on Z/OS V1.13
> 
> Any hint is appreciated.
> Many thx, A.Cecilio.
> 

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DFDSS RESTORE with RENUNC

[Toni Cecil]

Hello,
I've the following RESTORE SYSIN:
RESTORE-
DATASET(INCLUDE(PHAAXCX.FXX122)) -
RENUNC((PHAAXCX.FXX122,PHAAXCX.FXX122.RO2244V1)) -
INDDNAME(INPUT)-
CATALOG-
SPHERE -
CANCELERROR

RESTORE runs fine but the output dsn(PHAAXCX.FXX122.RO2244V1) got the same
SMS characteristics has the input dsn(PHAAXCX.FXX122), it seems that the
output dsn did not passed through SMS ACS routines.

Is this WAD ?? Doesn't SMS ACS act on the "RENUNCed" dsn??
I'm on Z/OS V1.13

Any hint is appreciated.
Many thx, A.Cecilio.

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Ed Gould]

On Dec 4, 2015, at 12:04 PM, Dana Mitchell wrote:

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 11:39:11 -0600, Ed Gould  
 wrote:


The chances of winning in IL are the same but on the downside they
don't pay if you are a winner

Ed



And if you can't win the lottery fair and square,  get a job with  
the commission and fix it:


http://www.kcci.com/news/lottery-holding-news-conference-on-lottery- 
investigation/35754806


http://www.kcci.com/news/sentencing-today-in-former-lottery- 
security-worker-ticket-case/35173946


Dana
-- 
SNIP


In *OUR* case it is pure politics.

Ed

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Re: OT: How much does software weigh? (was:What's a "ton" of JCL?)

[Joel C. Ewing]

On 12/04/2015 09:04 AM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 08:00:52 +, Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM wrote:
>
>> That's what NASA asked their programmers when designing the Apollo's. 
>> They answered: 'Nothing.'. 
>> 'Really, we can hardly believe this.'. 
>> 'It is true, we only use the holes in the punchcards.'
>>
> Decades ago, I was assigned to assist a scientist's converting his operation
> to a central computer.  One of the first questions he asked me was,
> "How long can the computer remember a number?"
>
> -- gil
>
> ...
>
Maybe not what the scientist meant, but actually not an unreasonable
question.  It depends on where the number in stored.  If you never
bother to write it to external storage and just keep in in volatile
memory, then it is only kept until some program deletes it or overwrites
it or a power-down occurs.  If you write it to external storage, it
depends on the associated retention period of the data set containing
it.  It could be set for indefinite retention,  or in other cases set
for auto-deletion based on an event, elapsed time, or time since last
referenced.

With older mainframes, some external media, and some PC platforms,
mean-time-between-failure was significant as well.

I do wonder if Einstein's relation between mass and energy means that
theoretically a computer might have some minuscule difference in mass
depending on the energy states of its internal components,  If so,
obviously not enough difference to be significant in the real world, but
that could mean that in theory a computer might have a very slight
variance in mass depending on what software was executing.

-- 
Joel C. Ewing,Bentonville, AR   jcew...@acm.org 

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Dana Mitchell]

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 11:39:11 -0600, Ed Gould  wrote:
>
>The chances of winning in IL are the same but on the downside they
>don't pay if you are a winner
>
>Ed
>

And if you can't win the lottery fair and square,  get a job with the 
commission and fix it:

http://www.kcci.com/news/lottery-holding-news-conference-on-lottery-investigation/35754806

http://www.kcci.com/news/sentencing-today-in-former-lottery-security-worker-ticket-case/35173946

Dana

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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Ed Gould]

On Dec 4, 2015, at 9:08 AM, R.S. wrote:


Do you mean 2105 or ESS Shark?
None of them introduced 1024 devs per box.

The relief was intruduced "architecturally" with the ESCON and  
implemented in earlier DASD boxes like Ramac RVA (can't remember  
model, it was higher than T82), Tetragon 2100 aka HDS Freedom 7700E  
and others.


The trick was usage of CUADD - something similar to LPAR from host  
side.
ESCON CU supported up to 16 CUADD => 16x256 devices => 4096 devices  
per box (some workarounds were possible -- single DASD box can be  
defined as more than one CU).
FICON extended it to 256 CUADD => 256x256 => 64k devices which is  
the limit for HCD ...unless you define 3390Aliases in SS1 (or SS2...).


--


-SNIP---

Back in the 70's (early) we had a limit of somewhere around 1600  
(sorry exact number is foggy) devices on MVS.
In our case we were top heavy in the number of 3270's (local). When  
IBM introduced the 3274-1A (1 UCB 32 devices)  we couldn't migrate  
off of the 1D (local 3274's) fast enough. We had to keep some 1D's  
for consoles though.

It allowed us to get the 3850 and the scads of DASD that it needed.

Ed

ps: We had hundreds of people doing data entry on he 3270's

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Ed Gould]

On Dec 4, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Elardus Engelbrecht wrote:

--SNIP

Now and then I do buy a lotto ticket. Half of the time I do get my  
money back. Never won enough to buy lots of *more* lotto tickets  
anyway. It is more or less throwing away part of your money in the  
water.


They're playing tricks with your brain - you usually win enough to  
keep you in the loop. if you lose too much, you may give up early  
resulting in a loss to those lotto and casino owners.


E:

The chances of winning in IL are the same but on the downside they  
don't pay if you are a winner


Ed

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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)]

In <5810852063744464.wa.jan.moeyersonsgfi...@listserv.ua.edu>, on
12/04/2015
   at 05:20 AM, "Jantje."  said:

>is http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ibm/38xx/3880/ 
>any help?

No. that only has the manual for the 3889-1, 2, 3 and 4. I've got the
mamuals for 3880-11 and 3880-13, but not from bitsavers. What I need
is the stuff newer than that.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see  
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Patrick Hayward]

Some people have beaten the lottery!
http://www.jordanellenberg.com/how-not-to-be-wrong/

A fun book to read.


On 04/12/15 14:29, John McKown wrote:

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Shane Ginnane  wrote:


On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 07:34:25 -0600, John McKown wrote:


​too true. I may even start playing the state lottery, even though that's
not really a good idea. I understand enough statistics to know that. ​

Don't do that.
I was listening to the BBC overnight a few weeks back, and they must have
been amending their lottery to have more numbers so the ultimate prize was
bigger.
They had a maths/stats prof on - he said for the current lottery, if you
stood in line for six and a half minute waiting for a ticket you had more
chance of dying in that 6.5 minutes than winning the money.
They added more numbers, so the time delta went down accordingly.

Sobering   ;0)


​Yeah. I remember a stats teacher on the TV saying something like: If you
want to gamble, go to Los Vegas instead of playing any state lottery. You
have a better chance of winning, and you'll have more fun due to the
entertainment in the casinos' bar. Note from me: And the women in the
casinos are prettier than the ones around the lottery machines! But that
may be a terribly sexist remark which is emotionally damaging to the
 women at the lottery machine.​




Shane ...

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Tony Harminc]

On 4 December 2015 at 08:34, John McKown 
wrote:

> ​too true. I may even start playing the state lottery, even though that's
> not really a good idea. I understand enough statistics to know that. ​
>

Thing is, buying a ticket is almost completely irrelevant to whether you
win. I have multiple times over the years, unknown to me until after the
fact, had tickets bought for me under various circumstances. For most
people the chances of this happening are surely far higher than the chances
of winning. I'd guess this happens to me every year or two, so if I average
that out and say that on any given day there's maybe a 1/500 chance that I
have a ticket, this multiplier pales into insignificance when compared to
the lottery odds, which are typically numbers like 1/3500.

Save your money; you may still win.

Tony H.

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Jack J. Woehr]

John McKown wrote:

too true. I may even start playing the state lottery, even though that's
not really a good idea. I understand enough statistics to know that. ​

After I interviewed Prof. William Kahan (designer of the math for the Intel 
8087 co-processor) in 1997,

( 
http://www.drdobbs.com/architecture-and-design/a-conversation-with-william-kahan/184410314
 )

we went out to lunch and he told me he was playing the California lottery, which had reached something like a $250M in 
that cycle.


I was astounded. "A mathematician playing the lottery?"

"Sure," he replied. "Firstly, when the prize gets this large the odds payoff on a $1 ticket is so much larger than the 
odds against you winning.

And secondly, if, like me, it's the only chance you're going to get in life to see 
one million dollars, well, why not play?"

--
Jack J. Woehr # Science is more than a body of knowledge. It's a way of
www.well.com/~jax # thinking, a way of skeptically interrogating the universe
www.softwoehr.com # with a fine understanding of human fallibility. - Carl Sagan

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[John McKown]

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 9:42 AM, Mike Schwab  wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:34 AM, John McKown
>  wrote:
> 
> > too true. I may even start playing the state lottery, even though that's
> > not really a good idea. I understand enough statistics to know that.
> >
> Don't play in Illinois.  They only give you and IOU.
>

​I live in Texas. But, really, I have no intention of trying the lottery.
It was just a weird & stupid idea. Sort of like converting from z/OS to
Windows and expecting 24x7x365 reliability.​


>
>
> --
> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
>

-- 

Schrodinger's backup: The condition of any backup is unknown until a
restore is attempted.

Yoda of Borg, we are. Futile, resistance is, yes. Assimilated, you will be.

He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Mike Schwab]

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:34 AM, John McKown
 wrote:

> too true. I may even start playing the state lottery, even though that's
> not really a good idea. I understand enough statistics to know that.
>
Don't play in Illinois.  They only give you and IOU.


-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[R.S.]

Do you mean 2105 or ESS Shark?
None of them introduced 1024 devs per box.

The relief was intruduced "architecturally" with the ESCON and 
implemented in earlier DASD boxes like Ramac RVA (can't remember model, 
it was higher than T82), Tetragon 2100 aka HDS Freedom 7700E and others.


The trick was usage of CUADD - something similar to LPAR from host side.
ESCON CU supported up to 16 CUADD => 16x256 devices => 4096 devices per 
box (some workarounds were possible -- single DASD box can be defined as 
more than one CU).
FICON extended it to 256 CUADD => 256x256 => 64k devices which is the 
limit for HCD ...unless you define 3390Aliases in SS1 (or SS2...).


--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






W dniu 2015-12-04 o 15:14, Ed Finnell pisze:

It was the jump from 256 to 1024 and four digit UCB's among other  niceties.
  
  
In a message dated 12/4/2015 8:01:16 A.M. Central Standard Time,

elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za writes:

I know  that thing by the name of ESS or Shark, but never realised it is
2105...



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jej adresat z wyczeniem dostpu osób trzecich. Jeeli nie jeste adresatem 
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lub inne dziaanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i moe by 
karalne. Jeeli otrzymae t wiadomo omykowo, prosimy niezwocznie 
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wczajc w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

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mBank S.A. z siedzib w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl
Sd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydzia Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru 
Sdowego, nr rejestru przedsibiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. 
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Re: OT: How much does software weigh? (was:What's a "ton" of JCL?)

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 08:00:52 +, Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM wrote:

>That's what NASA asked their programmers when designing the Apollo's. 
>They answered: 'Nothing.'. 
>'Really, we can hardly believe this.'. 
>'It is true, we only use the holes in the punchcards.'
> 
Decades ago, I was assigned to assist a scientist's converting his operation
to a central computer.  One of the first questions he asked me was,
"How long can the computer remember a number?"

-- gil

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[R.S.]

W dniu 2015-12-04 o 14:55, Elardus Engelbrecht pisze:

[...]
There are still enough fishes in our oceans, dams and rivers for a while, but 
...

Your grand children will ask this question and you're too old to remember 
anyways:

Mainframe? Fish? z/OS? Rhinos? MVS? Tigers? RACF? Pandas? What are those 
terrible things?

We had a rhino in ZOO, also tigers and some bears, but RACF? MVS?

--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland






--
Treść tej wiadomości może zawierać informacje prawnie chronione Banku 
przeznaczone wyłącznie do użytku służbowego adresata. Odbiorcą może być jedynie 
jej adresat z wyłączeniem dostępu osób trzecich. Jeżeli nie jesteś adresatem 
niniejszej wiadomości lub pracownikiem upoważnionym do jej przekazania 
adresatowi, informujemy, że jej rozpowszechnianie, kopiowanie, rozprowadzanie 
lub inne działanie o podobnym charakterze jest prawnie zabronione i może być 
karalne. Jeżeli otrzymałeś tę wiadomość omyłkowo, prosimy niezwłocznie 
zawiadomić nadawcę wysyłając odpowiedź oraz trwale usunąć tę wiadomość 
włączając w to wszelkie jej kopie wydrukowane lub zapisane na dysku.

This e-mail may contain legally privileged information of the Bank and is 
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are not the intended addressee of this e-mail or the employee authorized to 
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punishable. If you received this e-mail by mistake please advise the sender 
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permanently this e-mail including any copies of it either printed or saved to 
hard drive.

mBank S.A. z siedzibą w Warszawie, ul. Senatorska 18, 00-950 Warszawa, 
www.mBank.pl, e-mail: kont...@mbank.pl
Sąd Rejonowy dla m. st. Warszawy XII Wydział Gospodarczy Krajowego Rejestru 
Sądowego, nr rejestru przedsiębiorców KRS 025237, NIP: 526-021-50-88. 
Według stanu na dzień 01.01.2015 r. kapitał zakładowy mBanku S.A. (w całości 
wpłacony) wynosi 168.840.228 złotych.


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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Shane Ginnane wrote:

>Sobering   ;0)

Indeed. I was at a casino once and it amazed me that there are zombies sitting 
there all day and night, staring at and feeding those one-arm bandits.

Now and then I do buy a lotto ticket. Half of the time I do get my money back. 
Never won enough to buy lots of *more* lotto tickets anyway. It is more or less 
throwing away part of your money in the water.

They're playing tricks with your brain - you usually win enough to keep you in 
the loop. if you lose too much, you may give up early resulting in a loss to 
those lotto and casino owners.

I agree with you about the sobering calculations... No need to bet on that ... 
;-)

Oh, I still have that REXX program which generates for me some lotto numbers. 
Now if I could figure out a routine so it can *always* match the upcoming 
jackpot!!! 8-[

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[John McKown]

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Shane Ginnane  wrote:

> On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 07:34:25 -0600, John McKown wrote:
>
> >​too true. I may even start playing the state lottery, even though that's
> >not really a good idea. I understand enough statistics to know that. ​
>
> Don't do that.
> I was listening to the BBC overnight a few weeks back, and they must have
> been amending their lottery to have more numbers so the ultimate prize was
> bigger.
> They had a maths/stats prof on - he said for the current lottery, if you
> stood in line for six and a half minute waiting for a ticket you had more
> chance of dying in that 6.5 minutes than winning the money.
> They added more numbers, so the time delta went down accordingly.
>
> Sobering   ;0)
>

​Yeah. I remember a stats teacher on the TV saying something like: If you
want to gamble, go to Los Vegas instead of playing any state lottery. You
have a better chance of winning, and you'll have more fun due to the
entertainment in the casinos' bar. Note from me: And the women in the
casinos are prettier than the ones around the lottery machines! But that
may be a terribly sexist remark which is emotionally damaging to the
 women at the lottery machine.​



>
> Shane ...
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



-- 

Schrodinger's backup: The condition of any backup is unknown until a
restore is attempted.

Yoda of Borg, we are. Futile, resistance is, yes. Assimilated, you will be.

He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Shane Ginnane]

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 07:34:25 -0600, John McKown wrote:

>​too true. I may even start playing the state lottery, even though that's
>not really a good idea. I understand enough statistics to know that. ​

Don't do that.
I was listening to the BBC overnight a few weeks back, and they must have been 
amending their lottery to have more numbers so the ultimate prize was bigger.
They had a maths/stats prof on - he said for the current lottery, if you stood 
in line for six and a half minute waiting for a ticket you had more chance of 
dying in that 6.5 minutes than winning the money.
They added more numbers, so the time delta went down accordingly.

Sobering   ;0)

Shane ...

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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Ed Finnell]

It was the jump from 256 to 1024 and four digit UCB's among other  niceties.
 
 
In a message dated 12/4/2015 8:01:16 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za writes:

I know  that thing by the name of ESS or Shark, but never realised it is  
2105...



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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Uhh, thanks to all to tell this shark the real truth...

I know that thing by the name of ESS or Shark, but never realised it is 2105...

 showing off my decaying brain ...

(One thing is good about being old - oldies have fewer brain cells to use, care 
and worry about...)

Thanks again!

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

John McKown wrote:
>​too true. I may even start playing the state lottery, even though that's not 
>really a good idea. I understand enough statistics to know that. ​

and Shane Ginnane wrote:
>Pity the z business here has gone so far down the toilet I've had to wind up 
>my company and wander off into retirement..
Interest only now.

Same with angling. Years ago you could catch MANY BIG fishes.

Today, just like with z and related things, you're lucky if you can catch at 
least one fish in a day..

There are still enough fishes in our oceans, dams and rivers for a while, but 
...

Your grand children will ask this question and you're too old to remember 
anyways: 

Mainframe? Fish? z/OS? Rhinos? MVS? Tigers? RACF? Pandas? What are those 
terrible things?

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM]

We indeed received real size (0.5 meter or so) black plastic shark fins, to put 
on top of the boxes.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Finnell
Sent: 04 December, 2015 14:50
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

Fins on the left, fins on the rightwe got Hula girls tonight. Sorry too 
 much Margaritaville.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Enterprise_Storage_Server
 
 
In a message dated 12/4/2015 7:40:22 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za writes:

Uhm,  what is a 2105? It is unfamiliar to me or I forgot about  that...

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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Ed Finnell]

Fins on the left, fins on the rightwe got Hula girls tonight. Sorry too 
 much Margaritaville.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Enterprise_Storage_Server
 
 
In a message dated 12/4/2015 7:40:22 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
elardus.engelbre...@sita.co.za writes:

Uhm,  what is a 2105? It is unfamiliar to me or I forgot about  that...

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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM]

The 2105 is the ESS or Shark as it was introduced. 
Superseded by the DS8000.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Elardus Engelbrecht
Sent: 04 December, 2015 14:40
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:

>Dooes anybody have links for online manuals for DASD controllers starting with
>3880-21
>3880-23
>3990
>2105

No links, but I see you got a good reply about a bitsavers link. And there are 
indeed some good scanned-in 3880 books there.

I still have bookmanager books for 3990. See this list of ancient bookies:

Book Name   Book Title   
ANTGAR00Advanced Copy Services   
A13R1001IBM 3990 Storage Control Reference   
A13U40003990 TPF Support RPQs
A13I10053990/9390 Introduction   
A13U50033990/9390 Operations and Recovery Guide  
A13U10043990/9390 Planning, Installation, and Storage Adminis
A13R20053990/9390 Reference  

You want them, just shout, I can send them to you for free.

Also I have discovered some bookies for 3890, (hmmm, long time ago I browsed 
them) but that is not what you want...

Uhm, what is a 2105? It is unfamiliar to me or I forgot about that...

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Richards, Robert B.]

The IBM Enterprise Storage Server (ESS) more commonly known as a "SHARK".

Bob

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Elardus Engelbrecht
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2015 8:40 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:

>Dooes anybody have links for online manuals for DASD controllers starting with
>3880-21
>3880-23
>3990
>2105

No links, but I see you got a good reply about a bitsavers link. And there are 
indeed some good scanned-in 3880 books there.

I still have bookmanager books for 3990. See this list of ancient bookies:

Book Name   Book Title   
ANTGAR00Advanced Copy Services   
A13R1001IBM 3990 Storage Control Reference   
A13U40003990 TPF Support RPQs
A13I10053990/9390 Introduction   
A13U50033990/9390 Operations and Recovery Guide  
A13U10043990/9390 Planning, Installation, and Storage Adminis
A13R20053990/9390 Reference  

You want them, just shout, I can send them to you for free.

Also I have discovered some bookies for 3890, (hmmm, long time ago I browsed 
them) but that is not what you want...

Uhm, what is a 2105? It is unfamiliar to me or I forgot about that...

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Elardus Engelbrecht]

Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:

>Dooes anybody have links for online manuals for DASD controllers starting with
>3880-21
>3880-23
>3990
>2105

No links, but I see you got a good reply about a bitsavers link. And there are 
indeed some good scanned-in 3880 books there.

I still have bookmanager books for 3990. See this list of ancient bookies:

Book Name   Book Title   
ANTGAR00Advanced Copy Services   
A13R1001IBM 3990 Storage Control Reference   
A13U40003990 TPF Support RPQs
A13I10053990/9390 Introduction   
A13U50033990/9390 Operations and Recovery Guide  
A13U10043990/9390 Planning, Installation, and Storage Adminis
A13R20053990/9390 Reference  

You want them, just shout, I can send them to you for free.

Also I have discovered some bookies for 3890, (hmmm, long time ago I browsed 
them) but that is not what you want...

Uhm, what is a 2105? It is unfamiliar to me or I forgot about that...

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[John McKown]

On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:21 AM, Shane Ginnane  wrote:

> On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 06:43:23 -0600, John McKown  wrote:
>
> >I've bookmarked that in my browser. Thanks.
>
> Me too.
> Pity the z business here has gone so far down the toilet I've had to wind
> up my company and wander off into retirement..
> Interest only now.
>
> Shane ...
>

​too true. I may even start playing the state lottery, even though that's
not really a good idea. I understand enough statistics to know that. ​



-- 

Schrodinger's backup: The condition of any backup is unknown until a
restore is attempted.

Yoda of Borg, we are. Futile, resistance is, yes. Assimilated, you will be.

He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM]

They are like Christmas presents. You see the most beautiful things in the 
shops, but you know you will never get them. That's depressing.

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Shane Ginnane
Sent: 04 December, 2015 14:21
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 06:43:23 -0600, John McKown  wrote:

>I've bookmarked that in my browser. Thanks.

Me too.
Pity the z business here has gone so far down the toilet I've had to wind up my 
company and wander off into retirement..
Interest only now.

Shane ...

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[Shane Ginnane]

On Fri, 4 Dec 2015 06:43:23 -0600, John McKown  wrote:

>I've bookmarked that in my browser. Thanks.

Me too.
Pity the z business here has gone so far down the toilet I've had to wind up my 
company and wander off into retirement..
Interest only now.

Shane ...

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Re: IBM z Systems Development Blog

[John McKown]

I've bookmarked that in my browser. Thanks.

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Anthony Giorgio <
niteh...@linux.vnet.ibm.com> wrote:

> Did you know that the IBM z Systems development team has a blog?  If you
> want to hear news about IBM products right from the experts who develop
> them, then come take a look!
>
> https://ibm.biz/z_systems_development
>
> Some of the topics recent articles have touched upon are:
>
> * zEDC and HSM - A Winning Combination
> * IBM Wave for z/VM: Grouping
> * Cryptography Just Got Even Faster on z13 with Java 8 SR1
> * EMV Simplification with ICSF
>
> --
> Anthony Giorgio
> Advisory Software Engineer
> IBM z Systems Platform Performance Manager
> Twitter: @a_giorgio
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>



-- 

Schrodinger's backup: The condition of any backup is unknown until a
restore is attempted.

Yoda of Borg, we are. Futile, resistance is, yes. Assimilated, you will be.

He's about as useful as a wax frying pan.

10 to the 12th power microphones = 1 Megaphone

Maranatha! <><
John McKown

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Re: Online manuals for 3880-21, 3880-23, 3990, 2105 et al?

[Jantje.]

On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 14:44:36 -0500, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) 
 wrote:

>Dooes anybody have links for online manuals for DASD controllers
>starting with
>
>3880-21
>3880-23
>3990
>2105

is http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/ibm/38xx/3880/ 
any help?

Cheers,

Jantje.

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Re: OT: How much does software weigh? (was:What's a "ton" of JCL?)

[Ted MacNEIL]

I know that story.
Since it's Friday, here's another:

A reporter asked Alan Sheppard what he was thinking about as he blasted off.

Response:
Every part in here was built by the lowest bidder.

Scary!

-
-teD
-
  Original Message  
From: Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 03:01
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: OT: How much does software weigh? (was:What's a "ton" of JCL?)

That's what NASA asked their programmers when designing the Apollo's. 
They answered: 'Nothing.'. 
'Really, we can hardly believe this.'. 
'It is true, we only use the holes in the punchcards.'

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: 04 December, 2015 6:33
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: OT: What's a "ton" of JCL?

Is that counting the weight of the boxes themselves?

-
-teD
-
  Original Message  
From: Thomas Kern
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 00:14
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: OT: What's a "ton" of JCL?

Approximately 274905 cards.

2000 cards per box is about 14.55 lbs.
137.45 boxes per ton(2000lbs)

It is Friday now.

/Tom Kern

On 12/03/2015 22:40, Joel C. Ewing wrote:
> On 12/03/2015 12:16 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 10:43:38 -0600, Joel C. Ewing wrote:
>>> ... Because DOS/VS had native support for source and object
>>> libraries, those were kept online, but there was no decent native
>>> support to effectively submit production job JCL from libraries ...
>>>
>> Astonishing. You could RYO editor but not RYO "SUBMIT".
> OLE' was envisioned and implemented by one person, James Stevens, the
> head of Tech Services at a time when it was a one or two man operation
> (I raised the body count to 3) -- he probably created OLE' as late night
> entertainment for his own convenience and benefit to make development of
> his Mini-Task on-line environment and other utilities less tedious. It
> went company-wide since it significantly improved the efficiency of 40+
> programmers versus fiddling with individual cards in a deck. JCL didn't
> get changed as much and Operator's time was considered less valuable;
> and since they only picked up the entire job deck and moved it around
> as a unit it wasn't that obvious that a significant amount of time would
> be saved by avoiding the use of decks for production JCL.
>
> OLE' did have the ability to submit jobs to DOS, but the interactive
> OLE' work areas assigned to individual users were each a pre-defined
> number of "pages" of 24 80-byte records and the total size of all areas
> was constrained by the capacity of a 3330. With those space constraints,
> the normal practice was to keep in one's OLE' area(s) only data actively
> being edited along with some shorter job streams used for testing and
> development. It would have been possible to submit a short batch job
> from OLE' to extract a production job stream from a source library and
> load it into part of the an OLE' area (as was done for source code
> editing), wait for that job to run, and then submit the production job
> from OLE'; but by the time an Operator had done that they could have
> already loaded a physical deck. There just didn't seem to be enough
> cost-benefit to justify converting JCL from cards to DASD until MVS
> changed the equation.
>>> ... and the
>>> company was averse to spending on "unneeded" additional software, so
>>> production JCL was created in OLE' but punched and kept on cards for use
>>> by Operations.
>>>
>> The supplies must have been cheap.
> My impression was that the volume of new cards was low enough to be a
> trivial cost compared to the cost of printer paper, and I never saw a
> card filing cabinet wear out. Maintenance on the card reader/punch
> became more of a nuisance and issue after the units aged at least a
> decade, but the cost of that was a minor part of the hardware
> maintenance contract.
>>> When we started DOS/VSE to MVS/XA migration in 1985, we were already
>>> running the maximum of four, shared-SPOOL DOS/VSE systems under VM ...
>>>
>> Was that limit imposed by VM or by the DOS/VSE shared spool? I'd
>> suspect the latter.
>>
>> -- gil
>>
> Definitely was not a VM limitation. DOS/VSE had a shared "lock" file to
> coordinate library and other inter-system sharing and that file could be
> shared by a maximum of four systems (and with four systems one did at
> times see performance problems with that drive). I can't remember at
> this point whether the SPOOLER ("POWER"), was limited to four systems
> for shared spool because it depended on the "lock" file or whether it
> had its own internal design limits as well.
>

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OT: How much does software weigh? (was:What's a "ton" of JCL?)

[Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM]

That's what NASA asked their programmers when designing the Apollo's. 
They answered: 'Nothing.'. 
'Really, we can hardly believe this.'. 
'It is true, we only use the holes in the punchcards.'

Kees.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ted MacNEIL
Sent: 04 December, 2015 6:33
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: OT: What's a "ton" of JCL?

Is that counting the weight of the boxes themselves?

-
-teD
-
  Original Message  
From: Thomas Kern
Sent: Friday, December 4, 2015 00:14
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Reply To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
Subject: Re: OT: What's a "ton" of JCL?

Approximately 274905 cards.

2000 cards per box is about 14.55 lbs.
137.45 boxes per ton(2000lbs)

It is Friday now.

/Tom Kern

On 12/03/2015 22:40, Joel C. Ewing wrote:
> On 12/03/2015 12:16 PM, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
>> On Thu, 3 Dec 2015 10:43:38 -0600, Joel C. Ewing wrote:
>>> ... Because DOS/VS had native support for source and object
>>> libraries, those were kept online, but there was no decent native
>>> support to effectively submit production job JCL from libraries ...
>>>
>> Astonishing. You could RYO editor but not RYO "SUBMIT".
> OLE' was envisioned and implemented by one person, James Stevens, the
> head of Tech Services at a time when it was a one or two man operation
> (I raised the body count to 3) -- he probably created OLE' as late night
> entertainment for his own convenience and benefit to make development of
> his Mini-Task on-line environment and other utilities less tedious. It
> went company-wide since it significantly improved the efficiency of 40+
> programmers versus fiddling with individual cards in a deck. JCL didn't
> get changed as much and Operator's time was considered less valuable;
> and since they only picked up the entire job deck and moved it around
> as a unit it wasn't that obvious that a significant amount of time would
> be saved by avoiding the use of decks for production JCL.
>
> OLE' did have the ability to submit jobs to DOS, but the interactive
> OLE' work areas assigned to individual users were each a pre-defined
> number of "pages" of 24 80-byte records and the total size of all areas
> was constrained by the capacity of a 3330. With those space constraints,
> the normal practice was to keep in one's OLE' area(s) only data actively
> being edited along with some shorter job streams used for testing and
> development. It would have been possible to submit a short batch job
> from OLE' to extract a production job stream from a source library and
> load it into part of the an OLE' area (as was done for source code
> editing), wait for that job to run, and then submit the production job
> from OLE'; but by the time an Operator had done that they could have
> already loaded a physical deck. There just didn't seem to be enough
> cost-benefit to justify converting JCL from cards to DASD until MVS
> changed the equation.
>>> ... and the
>>> company was averse to spending on "unneeded" additional software, so
>>> production JCL was created in OLE' but punched and kept on cards for use
>>> by Operations.
>>>
>> The supplies must have been cheap.
> My impression was that the volume of new cards was low enough to be a
> trivial cost compared to the cost of printer paper, and I never saw a
> card filing cabinet wear out. Maintenance on the card reader/punch
> became more of a nuisance and issue after the units aged at least a
> decade, but the cost of that was a minor part of the hardware
> maintenance contract.
>>> When we started DOS/VSE to MVS/XA migration in 1985, we were already
>>> running the maximum of four, shared-SPOOL DOS/VSE systems under VM ...
>>>
>> Was that limit imposed by VM or by the DOS/VSE shared spool? I'd
>> suspect the latter.
>>
>> -- gil
>>
> Definitely was not a VM limitation. DOS/VSE had a shared "lock" file to
> coordinate library and other inter-system sharing and that file could be
> shared by a maximum of four systems (and with four systems one did at
> times see performance problems with that drive). I can't remember at
> this point whether the SPOOLER ("POWER"), was limited to four systems
> for shared spool because it depended on the "lock" file or whether it
> had its own internal design limits as well.
>

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