Re: AT-TLS and CSSMTP setup

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Sat, 29 Jul 2023 00:48:00 -0400, Phil Smith III wrote:

>No errors anywhere? Just RC=8?
>
>"It's a certificate error" -Hansen's Law
>
Or the firewall.

??? 

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gil

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Re: AT-TLS and CSSMTP setup

[kekronbekron]

Hi Brian,

You may find useful bits of info here - 
https://colinpaice.blog/2023/02/21/sending-an-email-from-z-os/
Either in this post or generally in this blog.

- KB

--- Original Message ---
On Saturday, July 29th, 2023 at 10:18 AM, Phil Smith III  
wrote:


> No errors anywhere? Just RC=8?
> 
> 
> 
> "It's a certificate error" -Hansen's Law
> 
> 
> 
> https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/4Iu5ZeUA/setting-up-gmail-as-outbound-mail-server-on-z-os
>  might be a hint, especially the
> bit about enabling gsktrace, which is your friend.
> 
> 
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Re: AT-TLS and CSSMTP setup

[Phil Smith III]

No errors anywhere? Just RC=8?

 

"It's a certificate error" -Hansen's Law

 

https://bit.listserv.ibm-main.narkive.com/4Iu5ZeUA/setting-up-gmail-as-outbound-mail-server-on-z-os
 might be a hint, especially the
bit about enabling gsktrace, which is your friend. 


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AT-TLS and CSSMTP setup

[Brian Westerman]

Hi,

Has anyone got working directions for setting up AT-TLS with the CSSMTP server. 
 I found the IBM manual Steps for using Transport Layer Security for CSSMTP, 
and went through all of the steps, but I still get stuck when I change 
secure=Yes in CSSMTP on a RC=8 (initial handshake) error with the external smtp 
server.  

I get the messages to the point where the STARTTLS command happens, but then 
the RC=8 failure on initial handshake.

Any detailed pointers on what could be missing.

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Re: Chaining format 9 and format 3 DSCBs in EAV VTOC

[Mike Schwab]

YEP.  management did not want to reorg a DB2 dataset with 100 extents.  Did
a batch update that failed when the 123rd extent filled.  No more updates
until reorg was completed, about 1995.

On Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 12:08 Wendell Lovewell <
01e9c0ee0673-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Thank you for the confirmation Radoslaw.  Whatever I tried with either
> VSAM or PDSe, I could not get more than 123 extents on a volume.  But I
> also never found the right document to describe the 123-extent limit.
>
> SO, I guess there wouldn't be a reason for multiple format-9 records for
> the same file.  10 DS9F3 slots can point to 130 extents.
>
> Thanks to you and Bill for your help!
>
> Wendell
>
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Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

[Lionel B. Dyck]

Agreed - poor choice of wording.


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
Phil Smith III
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 1:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

Lionel wrote:
>It would be impossible to speak to highly about Co:Z 



Presumably you meant "too highly". Just clarifying, as it's easy to read
this as a slam against Co:Z!


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Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

[Phil Smith III]

Lionel wrote:
>It would be impossible to speak to highly about Co:Z 



Presumably you meant "too highly". Just clarifying, as it's easy to read this 
as a slam against Co:Z!


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Re: Serena Changeman

[Bill Johnson]

Contact David Jackson. david.jack...@microfocus.com He’s a Serena manager.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, July 28, 2023, 1:13 PM, Ramsey Hallman  
wrote:

Steve, if your shop happens to have MVS/Quickref, we have the Serena
content in our database.

Ramsey Hallman
MVS/Quickref Support

On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 11:45 AM Steve Beaver  wrote:

> I'm at a shop that uses Serena Changeman  and have NON of the PDF's.
>
>
>
> Would someone in the group happened to have the Product PDF's?
>
>
>
> If so please e-mail them to st...@stevebeaver.com
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> --
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Re: Serena Changeman

[Ramsey Hallman]

Steve, if your shop happens to have MVS/Quickref, we have the Serena
content in our database.

Ramsey Hallman
MVS/Quickref Support

On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 11:45 AM Steve Beaver  wrote:

> I'm at a shop that uses Serena Changeman  and have NON of the PDF's.
>
>
>
> Would someone in the group happened to have the Product PDF's?
>
>
>
> If so please e-mail them to st...@stevebeaver.com
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>

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Re: Chaining format 9 and format 3 DSCBs in EAV VTOC

[Wendell Lovewell]

Thank you for the confirmation Radoslaw.  Whatever I tried with either VSAM or 
PDSe, I could not get more than 123 extents on a volume.  But I also never 
found the right document to describe the 123-extent limit.

SO, I guess there wouldn't be a reason for multiple format-9 records for the 
same file.  10 DS9F3 slots can point to 130 extents. 

Thanks to you and Bill for your help!

Wendell

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Serena Changeman

[Steve Beaver]

I'm at a shop that uses Serena Changeman  and have NON of the PDF's.

 

Would someone in the group happened to have the Product PDF's?

 

If so please e-mail them to st...@stevebeaver.com

 

Regards


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Re: [EXT] Ars Technica: The IBM mainframe: How it runs and why it survives

[Bob Bridges]

Hah!  That's just what I say about Windows WordPad; it does most of what I
need (until my writing gets a lot fancier; for serious documentation I use a
markup language) without weighing me down with too much bloatware.

I may be the only use in the country that uses WordPad much, though.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* Always look in the oven before you turn it on.  -from "Things I've
learned from my children" */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of
billogden
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 10:11

>OS/VS1 did have some things that MVS did not.
I liked it because, in many ways, it was as simple as could be but still did
the job needed. 

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looking for RSYNC for OMVS [was: Preferred FTP Client for Windows]

[Rick Troth]

And for my next question: what about RSYNC?
I don't see it mentioned on the Co:Z web site. Didn't find it on 
Rocket's web site either.
I thought I heard a rumor about someone porting it, but I also don't see 
it under the z/OS Open Tools GitHub repository.


RSYNC is the tool of choice for bulk file transfer on Linux, most Unix, 
MacOS, even Windoze (via CYGWIN, maybe WSL1).
Stealing verbiage from Lionel, it would be impossible to speak too 
highly about RSYNC as a general tool for maintaining file hierarchies.
The gotcha for z/OS would be ASCII/EBCDIC mixing, similar problem for 
those who use NFS between USS and other systems.


-- R; <><


On 7/28/23 11:38, Tom Brennan wrote:
Sounds great!  I've never used Co:Z, but I always assumed it was a mod 
to the open source SSH code, with a new listening STC.  Interesting to 
see John's note about it using IBM's SSH processing.  I'm not sure I 
would have thought of that simple idea myself.


Conversations in the past went like this:
User: Does the mainframe support sftp?
Tom: Sure!
User: Ok, so I can sftp PROD.PAYROLL to our Linux app.
Tom: Sure!  But... um...

On 7/28/2023 8:01 AM, Lionel B. Dyck wrote:
It would be impossible to speak to highly about Co:Z - and not just 
about their sftp server enhancement but also their other tools. They 
have provided what IBM should have.


Check the license - it's free with some restrictions. And they offer 
a full support contract as well (which I would encourage you to 
consider if you're going to use it in production if only to support 
this great company).



Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is 
what you are, reputation merely what others think you are.” - - - 
John Wooden


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On 
Behalf Of John S. Giltner, Jr.

Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 9:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

Co:Z SFTP only talks SSH/SFTP.  It sits "on top" of IBM's ported 
OpenSSH.  So you need IBM's OpenSSH installed.


To get/put z/OS files you do need to use some special command such as 
to put  a text file with LRECL=80 and fixed block  to z/OS


ls /+mode=text,lrecl=80,recmf=fb,blksize=0,space=trk.1.1
put //!ZOS.FILE.NAME

To get a z/OS file that is text:

ls /+mode=text
get //ZOS.FILE.NAME

To do binary it would be ls /+mode=binary.

For OMVS files the get/put are just like any other *nix host. If the 
files are in EBCDIC you need the ls /+mode=text.  If they are binary 
or in ASCII you use /+mode=binary/


Co:Z does have a config file where you can set defaults for mode, 
lrecl, blksize and everything else so you don't have to specify the 
parameters every time if you know what you going to be using most of 
the time.


You can also use Co:Z as a client on z/OS to send/get files from 
other SFTP servers.


On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 10:25:34 -0400, Rick Troth  wrote:


This is great to hear, John. Thanks.

For people like me, who need excruciating clarity, you're saying that
the SERVER in the Co:Z product groks traditional datasets as well as
USS files. Correct? Fantastic!
That means one can use a variety of clients, specifically several which
go via SSH. Is that also correct?

You mention SFTP which is FTP-like behavior using SSH under the covers.
Contrast with FTPS which is traditional FTP but with SSL/TLS added.
I'm keen on the former because it uses a single channel. Though I much
prefer a one-shot command in any case, and 'scp' does that (and runs
via SSH like 'sftp').

Does the Co:Z server speak both SSH (for SFTP) and traditional FTP?

-- R; <><


On 7/28/23 07:34, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote:
I use sftp  with Co:Z SFTP installed on the z/OS side.  It allows 
access to z/OS files as well as OMVS files.  Where as OpenSSH on 
z/OS only allows access to OMVS files.


Under Windows you can use WSL, Putty, Cygwin, or any other CLI sftp 
product.  I use Cygwin most of the time.



On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:06:52 -0500, Steve Estle  
wrote:



Hello All,

I work in a secure government environment and moving files up and 
down from the mainframe (especially traditional ZOS datasets) is a 
'' pita with Winscp and everything I read (including IBMMAIN 
archives) is that tool is just plain dumb when it comes to 
datasets with standard ZOS HLQ's.  I'm trying to do a 
non-scientific poll - what is the preferred FTP client to run on 
Windows platform out there everyone is using that you are happy 
with and can easily navigate to either traditional ZOS HLQ dataset 
or Unix System Services files.  Of course freeware is preferred if 
user friendly.


I know there is Filezilla but not sure it is much better than Winscp?

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and input.

Steve Estle
steven.es...@peraton.com


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Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

[Allan Staller]

Classification: Confidential

YES.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Rick Troth
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 9:26 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don’t click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

This is great to hear, John. Thanks.

For people like me, who need excruciating clarity, you're saying that the 
SERVER in the Co:Z product groks traditional datasets as well as USS files. 
Correct? Fantastic!
That means one can use a variety of clients, specifically several which go via 
SSH. Is that also correct?

You mention SFTP which is FTP-like behavior using SSH under the covers.
Contrast with FTPS which is traditional FTP but with SSL/TLS added.
I'm keen on the former because it uses a single channel. Though I much prefer a 
one-shot command in any case, and 'scp' does that (and runs via SSH like 
'sftp').

Does the Co:Z server speak both SSH (for SFTP) and traditional FTP?

-- R; <><


On 7/28/23 07:34, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote:
> I use sftp  with Co:Z SFTP installed on the z/OS side.  It allows access to 
> z/OS files as well as OMVS files.  Where as OpenSSH on z/OS only allows 
> access to OMVS files.
>
> Under Windows you can use WSL, Putty, Cygwin, or any other CLI sftp product.  
> I use Cygwin most of the time.
>
>
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:06:52 -0500, Steve Estle  wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I work in a secure government environment and moving files up and down from 
>> the mainframe (especially traditional ZOS datasets) is a '' pita with 
>> Winscp and everything I read (including IBMMAIN archives) is that tool is 
>> just plain dumb when it comes to datasets with standard ZOS HLQ's.  I'm 
>> trying to do a non-scientific poll - what is the preferred FTP client to run 
>> on Windows platform out there everyone is using that you are happy with and 
>> can easily navigate to either traditional ZOS HLQ dataset or Unix System 
>> Services files.  Of course freeware is preferred if user friendly.
>>
>> I know there is Filezilla but not sure it is much better than Winscp?
>>
>> Thanks for everyone's thoughts and input.
>>
>> Steve Estle
>> steven.es...@peraton.com
>>
>> -
>> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO
>> IBM-MAIN
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Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

[Lionel B. Dyck]

Go to https://coztoolkit.com/downloads/coz/index.html and then click on 
Documentation to read all about it. Then click on License/Support to determine 
if your site qualifies (most do unless you are an outsourcer). Then click 
Downloads and enjoy.


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Paul Gilmartin
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 10:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 09:58:04 -0500, John S. Giltner, Jr wrote:
>...
>ls /+mode=text
>
It's a pity that sftp provides no analogue of QUOTE SITE to do such things 
cleanly.

Is there "ls /+mode=record" to deal with FILEDATA=RECORD.  One might want to 
"get" a traditional data set, supplying RDWs for the client.

Is there support for CCSID tagging?

Is the reference manual available?

--
gil

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Re: [EXT] Ars Technica: The IBM mainframe: How it runs and why it survives

[Seymour J Metz]

Yep, "Model 1 displays 480 characters (12 rows of 40 characters)."

Did you have keyboard issues?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
billogden 
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 10:11 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXT] Ars Technica: The IBM mainframe: How it runs and why it 
survives

Comment for Seymour:

> By the time the 370/148 came out 3270s were old hat.
Not in all parts of the world!

>3270-1? Did you mean 3277-1? I never saw one in the flesh, and it was way
too small.
Sorry, I used the "generic" 3270 instead of the specific "3277".  Yes, the
model 1 had a very small screen. My memory is not good, but I think it was
12x40.

>OS/VS1 did have some things that MVS did not.
I liked it because, in many ways, it was as simple as could be but still did
the job needed.

Bill Ogden

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Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

[Paul Gilmartin]

On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 09:58:04 -0500, John S. Giltner, Jr wrote:
>...
>ls /+mode=text
>
It's a pity that sftp provides no analogue of QUOTE SITE to do such things 
cleanly.

Is there "ls /+mode=record" to deal with FILEDATA=RECORD.  One might want to
"get" a traditional data set, supplying RDWs for the client.

Is there support for CCSID tagging?

Is the reference manual available?

-- 
gil

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Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

[Tom Brennan]

Sounds great!  I've never used Co:Z, but I always assumed it was a mod 
to the open source SSH code, with a new listening STC.  Interesting to 
see John's note about it using IBM's SSH processing.  I'm not sure I 
would have thought of that simple idea myself.


Conversations in the past went like this:
User: Does the mainframe support sftp?
Tom: Sure!
User: Ok, so I can sftp PROD.PAYROLL to our Linux app.
Tom: Sure!  But... um...

On 7/28/2023 8:01 AM, Lionel B. Dyck wrote:

It would be impossible to speak to highly about Co:Z - and not just about their 
sftp server enhancement but also their other tools. They have provided what IBM 
should have.

Check the license - it's free with some restrictions. And they offer a full 
support contract as well (which I would encourage you to consider if you're 
going to use it in production if only to support this great company).


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
John S. Giltner, Jr.
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 9:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

Co:Z SFTP only talks SSH/SFTP.  It sits "on top" of IBM's ported OpenSSH.  So 
you need IBM's OpenSSH installed.

To get/put z/OS files you do need to use some special command such as to put  a 
text file with LRECL=80 and fixed block  to z/OS

ls /+mode=text,lrecl=80,recmf=fb,blksize=0,space=trk.1.1
put //!ZOS.FILE.NAME

To get a z/OS file that is text:

ls /+mode=text
get //ZOS.FILE.NAME

To do binary it would be ls /+mode=binary.

For OMVS files the get/put are just like any other *nix host.  If the files are 
in EBCDIC you need the ls /+mode=text.  If they are binary or in ASCII you use 
/+mode=binary/

Co:Z does have a config file where you can set defaults for mode, lrecl, 
blksize and everything else so you don't have to specify the parameters every 
time if you know what you going to be using most of the time.

You can also use Co:Z as a client on z/OS to send/get files from other SFTP 
servers.

On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 10:25:34 -0400, Rick Troth  wrote:


This is great to hear, John. Thanks.

For people like me, who need excruciating clarity, you're saying that
the SERVER in the Co:Z product groks traditional datasets as well as
USS files. Correct? Fantastic!
That means one can use a variety of clients, specifically several which
go via SSH. Is that also correct?

You mention SFTP which is FTP-like behavior using SSH under the covers.
Contrast with FTPS which is traditional FTP but with SSL/TLS added.
I'm keen on the former because it uses a single channel. Though I much
prefer a one-shot command in any case, and 'scp' does that (and runs
via SSH like 'sftp').

Does the Co:Z server speak both SSH (for SFTP) and traditional FTP?

-- R; <><


On 7/28/23 07:34, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote:

I use sftp  with Co:Z SFTP installed on the z/OS side.  It allows access to 
z/OS files as well as OMVS files.  Where as OpenSSH on z/OS only allows access 
to OMVS files.

Under Windows you can use WSL, Putty, Cygwin, or any other CLI sftp product.  I 
use Cygwin most of the time.


On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:06:52 -0500, Steve Estle  wrote:


Hello All,

I work in a secure government environment and moving files up and down from the 
mainframe (especially traditional ZOS datasets) is a '' pita with Winscp 
and everything I read (including IBMMAIN archives) is that tool is just plain 
dumb when it comes to datasets with standard ZOS HLQ's.  I'm trying to do a 
non-scientific poll - what is the preferred FTP client to run on Windows 
platform out there everyone is using that you are happy with and can easily 
navigate to either traditional ZOS HLQ dataset or Unix System Services files.  
Of course freeware is preferred if user friendly.

I know there is Filezilla but not sure it is much better than Winscp?

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and input.

Steve Estle
steven.es...@peraton.com


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IBM-MAIN

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Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

[Lionel B. Dyck]

It would be impossible to speak to highly about Co:Z - and not just about their 
sftp server enhancement but also their other tools. They have provided what IBM 
should have.

Check the license - it's free with some restrictions. And they offer a full 
support contract as well (which I would encourage you to consider if you're 
going to use it in production if only to support this great company).


Lionel B. Dyck <><
Website: https://www.lbdsoftware.com
Github: https://github.com/lbdyck

“Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you 
are, reputation merely what others think you are.”   - - - John Wooden

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
John S. Giltner, Jr.
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 9:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

Co:Z SFTP only talks SSH/SFTP.  It sits "on top" of IBM's ported OpenSSH.  So 
you need IBM's OpenSSH installed. 

To get/put z/OS files you do need to use some special command such as to put  a 
text file with LRECL=80 and fixed block  to z/OS

ls /+mode=text,lrecl=80,recmf=fb,blksize=0,space=trk.1.1
put //!ZOS.FILE.NAME

To get a z/OS file that is text:

ls /+mode=text
get //ZOS.FILE.NAME

To do binary it would be ls /+mode=binary.

For OMVS files the get/put are just like any other *nix host.  If the files are 
in EBCDIC you need the ls /+mode=text.  If they are binary or in ASCII you use 
/+mode=binary/

Co:Z does have a config file where you can set defaults for mode, lrecl, 
blksize and everything else so you don't have to specify the parameters every 
time if you know what you going to be using most of the time.

You can also use Co:Z as a client on z/OS to send/get files from other SFTP 
servers. 

On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 10:25:34 -0400, Rick Troth  wrote:

>This is great to hear, John. Thanks.
>
>For people like me, who need excruciating clarity, you're saying that 
>the SERVER in the Co:Z product groks traditional datasets as well as 
>USS files. Correct? Fantastic!
>That means one can use a variety of clients, specifically several which 
>go via SSH. Is that also correct?
>
>You mention SFTP which is FTP-like behavior using SSH under the covers.
>Contrast with FTPS which is traditional FTP but with SSL/TLS added.
>I'm keen on the former because it uses a single channel. Though I much 
>prefer a one-shot command in any case, and 'scp' does that (and runs 
>via SSH like 'sftp').
>
>Does the Co:Z server speak both SSH (for SFTP) and traditional FTP?
>
>-- R; <><
>
>
>On 7/28/23 07:34, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote:
>> I use sftp  with Co:Z SFTP installed on the z/OS side.  It allows access to 
>> z/OS files as well as OMVS files.  Where as OpenSSH on z/OS only allows 
>> access to OMVS files.
>>
>> Under Windows you can use WSL, Putty, Cygwin, or any other CLI sftp product. 
>>  I use Cygwin most of the time.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:06:52 -0500, Steve Estle  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I work in a secure government environment and moving files up and down from 
>>> the mainframe (especially traditional ZOS datasets) is a '' pita with 
>>> Winscp and everything I read (including IBMMAIN archives) is that tool is 
>>> just plain dumb when it comes to datasets with standard ZOS HLQ's.  I'm 
>>> trying to do a non-scientific poll - what is the preferred FTP client to 
>>> run on Windows platform out there everyone is using that you are happy with 
>>> and can easily navigate to either traditional ZOS HLQ dataset or Unix 
>>> System Services files.  Of course freeware is preferred if user friendly.
>>>
>>> I know there is Filezilla but not sure it is much better than Winscp?
>>>
>>> Thanks for everyone's thoughts and input.
>>>
>>> Steve Estle
>>> steven.es...@peraton.com
>>>
>>> 
>>> -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, 
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Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

[John S. Giltner, Jr.]

Co:Z SFTP only talks SSH/SFTP.  It sits "on top" of IBM's ported OpenSSH.  So 
you need IBM's OpenSSH installed. 

To get/put z/OS files you do need to use some special command such as to put  a 
text file with LRECL=80 and fixed block  to z/OS

ls /+mode=text,lrecl=80,recmf=fb,blksize=0,space=trk.1.1
put //!ZOS.FILE.NAME

To get a z/OS file that is text:

ls /+mode=text
get //ZOS.FILE.NAME

To do binary it would be ls /+mode=binary.

For OMVS files the get/put are just like any other *nix host.  If the files are 
in EBCDIC you need the ls /+mode=text.  If they are binary or in ASCII you use 
/+mode=binary/

Co:Z does have a config file where you can set defaults for mode, lrecl, 
blksize and everything else so you don't have to specify the parameters every 
time if you know what you going to be using most of the time.

You can also use Co:Z as a client on z/OS to send/get files from other SFTP 
servers. 

On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 10:25:34 -0400, Rick Troth  wrote:

>This is great to hear, John. Thanks.
>
>For people like me, who need excruciating clarity, you're saying that
>the SERVER in the Co:Z product groks traditional datasets as well as USS
>files. Correct? Fantastic!
>That means one can use a variety of clients, specifically several which
>go via SSH. Is that also correct?
>
>You mention SFTP which is FTP-like behavior using SSH under the covers.
>Contrast with FTPS which is traditional FTP but with SSL/TLS added.
>I'm keen on the former because it uses a single channel. Though I much
>prefer a one-shot command in any case, and 'scp' does that (and runs via
>SSH like 'sftp').
>
>Does the Co:Z server speak both SSH (for SFTP) and traditional FTP?
>
>-- R; <><
>
>
>On 7/28/23 07:34, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote:
>> I use sftp  with Co:Z SFTP installed on the z/OS side.  It allows access to 
>> z/OS files as well as OMVS files.  Where as OpenSSH on z/OS only allows 
>> access to OMVS files.
>>
>> Under Windows you can use WSL, Putty, Cygwin, or any other CLI sftp product. 
>>  I use Cygwin most of the time.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:06:52 -0500, Steve Estle  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I work in a secure government environment and moving files up and down from 
>>> the mainframe (especially traditional ZOS datasets) is a '' pita with 
>>> Winscp and everything I read (including IBMMAIN archives) is that tool is 
>>> just plain dumb when it comes to datasets with standard ZOS HLQ's.  I'm 
>>> trying to do a non-scientific poll - what is the preferred FTP client to 
>>> run on Windows platform out there everyone is using that you are happy with 
>>> and can easily navigate to either traditional ZOS HLQ dataset or Unix 
>>> System Services files.  Of course freeware is preferred if user friendly.
>>>
>>> I know there is Filezilla but not sure it is much better than Winscp?
>>>
>>> Thanks for everyone's thoughts and input.
>>>
>>> Steve Estle
>>> steven.es...@peraton.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>> --
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>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
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Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

[Rick Troth]

This is great to hear, John. Thanks.

For people like me, who need excruciating clarity, you're saying that 
the SERVER in the Co:Z product groks traditional datasets as well as USS 
files. Correct? Fantastic!
That means one can use a variety of clients, specifically several which 
go via SSH. Is that also correct?


You mention SFTP which is FTP-like behavior using SSH under the covers.
Contrast with FTPS which is traditional FTP but with SSL/TLS added.
I'm keen on the former because it uses a single channel. Though I much 
prefer a one-shot command in any case, and 'scp' does that (and runs via 
SSH like 'sftp').


Does the Co:Z server speak both SSH (for SFTP) and traditional FTP?

-- R; <><


On 7/28/23 07:34, John S. Giltner, Jr. wrote:

I use sftp  with Co:Z SFTP installed on the z/OS side.  It allows access to 
z/OS files as well as OMVS files.  Where as OpenSSH on z/OS only allows access 
to OMVS files.

Under Windows you can use WSL, Putty, Cygwin, or any other CLI sftp product.  I 
use Cygwin most of the time.


On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:06:52 -0500, Steve Estle  wrote:


Hello All,

I work in a secure government environment and moving files up and down from the 
mainframe (especially traditional ZOS datasets) is a '' pita with Winscp 
and everything I read (including IBMMAIN archives) is that tool is just plain 
dumb when it comes to datasets with standard ZOS HLQ's.  I'm trying to do a 
non-scientific poll - what is the preferred FTP client to run on Windows 
platform out there everyone is using that you are happy with and can easily 
navigate to either traditional ZOS HLQ dataset or Unix System Services files.  
Of course freeware is preferred if user friendly.

I know there is Filezilla but not sure it is much better than Winscp?

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and input.

Steve Estle
steven.es...@peraton.com

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Re: [EXT] Ars Technica: The IBM mainframe: How it runs and why it survives

[billogden]

Comment for Seymour:

> By the time the 370/148 came out 3270s were old hat.
Not in all parts of the world!

>3270-1? Did you mean 3277-1? I never saw one in the flesh, and it was way
too small.
Sorry, I used the "generic" 3270 instead of the specific "3277".  Yes, the
model 1 had a very small screen. My memory is not good, but I think it was
12x40.

>OS/VS1 did have some things that MVS did not.
I liked it because, in many ways, it was as simple as could be but still did
the job needed. 

Bill Ogden 

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Re: SETROPTS ERASE(ALL)

[Larre Shiller]

Hi Jack -

For many, many years we had been iteratively testing the Erase-On-Scratch 
function to determine if the performance had improved over time (with new 
hardware/software releases) to determine if we could exploit EOS, but without 
getting too far into the weeds, the bottom line was that the overhead to 
implement EOS was too great--specifically the elapsed time.  IBM did great work 
to dramatically improve the performance over time, but there was always going 
to be additional CPU and EXCP overhead--no way to avoid that.  But we 
determined that the elapsed time it would take to scratch some of our larger 
data sets would negatively impact our batch window, so we never implemented it. 
 Yes, you can select certain data sets instead of using "ALL", but that 
involves too much administrative overhead (and continuous updates as the 
environment changes) and at the end of the day, some of the largest data sets 
probably have the most sensitive data in them.

That said, you might want to check out IBM APAR OA61492 (and associated PE 
fixes).  The DASD UNMAP function (or the non-IBM DASD equivalent) seems to 
perform "the same" Erase-On-Scratch function... but at the hardware level.  We 
are using the EMC equivalent and it is working seamlessly--no z/OS side 
overhead at all and practically nothing at the DASD hardware level.

Larre Shiller
US Social Security Administration 
“The opinions expressed in this e-mail are mine personally and do not 
necessarily reflect the opinion of the US Social Security Administration or the 
US Government.”

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Re: Preferred FTP Client for Windows

[John S. Giltner, Jr.]

I use sftp  with Co:Z SFTP installed on the z/OS side.  It allows access to 
z/OS files as well as OMVS files.  Where as OpenSSH on z/OS only allows access 
to OMVS files.

Under Windows you can use WSL, Putty, Cygwin, or any other CLI sftp product.  I 
use Cygwin most of the time.


On Wed, 26 Jul 2023 16:06:52 -0500, Steve Estle  wrote:

>Hello All,
>
>I work in a secure government environment and moving files up and down from 
>the mainframe (especially traditional ZOS datasets) is a '' pita with 
>Winscp and everything I read (including IBMMAIN archives) is that tool is just 
>plain dumb when it comes to datasets with standard ZOS HLQ's.  I'm trying to 
>do a non-scientific poll - what is the preferred FTP client to run on Windows 
>platform out there everyone is using that you are happy with and can easily 
>navigate to either traditional ZOS HLQ dataset or Unix System Services files.  
>Of course freeware is preferred if user friendly.
>
>I know there is Filezilla but not sure it is much better than Winscp?
>
>Thanks for everyone's thoughts and input.
>
>Steve Estle
>steven.es...@peraton.com
>
>--
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>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: IMS/Transaction Manager

[Mike Schwab]

The relations between IMS segments are exactly the same relationship
between related DB2 tables.  Example would be a relationship between a
person-id number, the various legal names and the range when each name was
legal, the various address and date ranges they lived at each address.
Does not matter if you are tracking this on paper, in IMS, in DB2, or some
other database.

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023, 22:31 Wayne Bickerdike  wrote:

> Mike Schwab said:
>
>
> *One thong that helps ImMS is that everything related to a root key
> isstored together, where as DB2 each segment is a separate database.*
>
> Thinging the wrong thong methinks.
>
> For starters, a DB2 database can have many tables/tablespaces. From a
> physical POV an IMS DB can be a single segment or have multiple segments
> linked by pointers. I've seen models for hierarchical databases implemented
> in DB2 tables. It's messy and I have to ask why would you do that?
>
> Disclaimer...Not a DB2 fan but it pays.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 9:28 AM Mike Schwab 
> wrote:
>
> > One thong that helps ImMS is that everything related to a root key is
> > stored together, where as DB2 each segment is a separate database.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 25, 2023, 17:58 Attila Fogarasi  wrote:
> >
> > > IMS/DC predated VTAM (which came in 1974).  It was BTAM and later also
> > > TCAM.  IBM MQ started life as a TCAM next generation before being
> > > redesigned to be store/forward/transform messaging service.  That was
> > more
> > > than a decade after IMS/DC message queue.  As others have said IMS
> > started
> > > as a customer initiative, by Rockwell for the Saturn V moon rocket --
> > they
> > > couldn't keep track of the huge bill of materials needed.  The IMS
> > > architecture and internal implementation was always performance
> > > (instruction path length) and throughput focused.  In contrast CICS was
> > > application services focused, hence a completely different
> architecture.
> > > For the first 20 years, IMS was an order of magnitude faster than CICS
> > once
> > > IMS Fast Path came along (1977).  Over time the same technology (things
> > > like Data in Memory) was adopted by CICS, so today there is less speed
> > > difference.  Both exploit the system architecture for z very
> effectively,
> > > something that other transaction manager solutions such as Tuxedo (now
> > > Oracle) were never able to do, despite starting 20 years later with a
> > clean
> > > slate.  Meanwhile there are still IMS application programs running that
> > > were written 50+ years ago and are fully supported today!
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 4:27 AM Schmitt, Michael <
> > michael.schm...@dxc.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I wasn't working then 😊, but I think that IMS/DB was developed then,
> > as
> > > > the bill of materials database. The question I have is when IMS/DC
> come
> > > > along? The online documentation is unclear.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Introduction to IMS says:
> > > >
> > > > IBM developed an online component to ICS/DL/I to support data
> > > > communication access to the databases. The DL/I callable interface
> was
> > > > expanded to the online component of the product to enable data
> > > > communication transparency to the application programs. A message
> queue
> > > > function was created to maintain the integrity of data communication
> > > > messages and to provide for scheduling of the application programs.
> > > >
> > > > The online component to ICS/DL/I ultimately became the Data
> > > Communications
> > > > (DC) function of IMS, which became the IMS Transaction Manager (IMS
> TM)
> > > in
> > > > IMS Version 4.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So *maybe* the original system just allowed some kind of
> communication
> > > > access to the database, but not a full screen driven transaction
> server
> > > > with a message queue like we know today.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > While we're on the subject of IMS/TM...
> > > >
> > > > Is it true that the MQ Series message queue was based on the IMS/TM
> > > > message queue? Or is there no connection other than the function they
> > > > provide.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf
> > > > Of rpinion865
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2023 1:09 PM
> > > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > > > Subject: Re: [EXT] Ars Technica: The IBM mainframe: How it runs and
> why
> > > it
> > > > survives
> > > >
> > > > I'm probably wrong.  But I thought IMS was developed for NASA during
> > the
> > > > Gemini and Apollo time frame.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
> > > >
> > > > --- Original Message ---
> > > > On Tuesday, July 25th, 2023 at 2:05 PM, Schmitt, Michael <
> > > > michael.schm...@dxc.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > No, I don’t know of an IMS/TM + DB2 system.
> > > > >
> > > > > But then the CICS systems I work with are also not using DB2. They
> > use
> > > > VSAM!
> > > > >
> >

SETROPTS ERASE(ALL)

[Jack Zukt]

Hello,
Cross posted to RACF and MVS
I am pretty sure that this topic has already been discussed on both RACF
and MVS lists but I was not able to find anything on my searches.
We were asked by a client about the impact that its system might suffer if
they accepted their auditors recommendation of enabling RACF ERASE(ALL)
option.
Do you have any experiences and horror stories that you can share about
this? Is there any way to figure how much more CPU; EXCP; elapsed-time to
expect due to ERASE(ALL) being enabled?
Best wishes
Jack

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Re: How does Chinese banks runs their IT?

[August Carideo]

I actually did some work for the Bank of China at one of their NY City data 
centers, and at the time tho not limited to it they were running Z/VSE

Get Outlook for iOS

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of P H 
<04843e86df79-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2023 5:20:07 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: How does Chinese banks runs their IT?

Re the comment about 'limited to DOS/VSE'. Not true now. The largest Chinese 
bank, possibly the world (all depends how you define 'largest') uses z/OS, with 
a high availability configuration. Unless something has changed during the past 
few years, I will suggest they were 'bleeding' edge in exploiting z 🙂






From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Wayne Bickerdike 
Sent: 28 July 2023 04:06
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: How does Chinese banks runs their IT?

I believe that many Chinese banks ran mainframe but were limited to DOS/VSE
not MVS due to technology embargoes.

I also heard that huge numbers were running bootleg versions, including
Hercules.

When I worked in Indonesia, the company I worked at (A state enterprise)
ran lots of unlicensed software, IBM and third parties often overlooked
this in order to sell hardware. At the time, Hitachi were their main
competitor.

On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 6:44 AM Radoslaw Skorupka <
0471ebeac275-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I would rephrase the question.
> We know the 95 of top 100 banks are using mainframes. The same for
> airlines, retailers, etc.
> Numbers presented may differ slightly, but it doesn't matter.
>
> The question is: WHAT ABOUT THE REST???
> I would like to know in details the remaining 5 cases.
>
>
>
> BTW: In Poland, due to historical reasons like communism and COCOM
> (export limitations) we were not using advanced technologies.
> In fact, before the 1989 IT in banking almost did not existed. Then we
> started from scratch, due to still existing limitations we started from
> PCs, LAN and Netware. And ICL DRS 300 (very poor). Then Unix systems
> arrived.
> In fact the first mainframe-based core banking system was launched in
> 2000. I know it well, because I was the person who launched it.
> Yes, it was pure-Internet (no branch offices) bank, called mBank.
> Today we have 3 largest banks on mainframes and some foreign banks (like
> Citi or DB) having their mainframes somewhere "in the cloud", means abroad.
> More, we have huge HSBC IT division in Cracow, despite HSBC banking
> business is not present in Poland. It it the largest IT employer in
> Cracow. With mainframe division.
> We also support Nordea, which is also not present in Poland (the were,
> but they sold the business and now hire 4000+ employees).
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
>
> --
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--
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Re: How does Chinese banks runs their IT?

[P H]

Re the comment about 'limited to DOS/VSE'. Not true now. The largest Chinese 
bank, possibly the world (all depends how you define 'largest') uses z/OS, with 
a high availability configuration. Unless something has changed during the past 
few years, I will suggest they were 'bleeding' edge in exploiting z 🙂






From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Wayne Bickerdike 
Sent: 28 July 2023 04:06
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: How does Chinese banks runs their IT?

I believe that many Chinese banks ran mainframe but were limited to DOS/VSE
not MVS due to technology embargoes.

I also heard that huge numbers were running bootleg versions, including
Hercules.

When I worked in Indonesia, the company I worked at (A state enterprise)
ran lots of unlicensed software, IBM and third parties often overlooked
this in order to sell hardware. At the time, Hitachi were their main
competitor.

On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 6:44 AM Radoslaw Skorupka <
0471ebeac275-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I would rephrase the question.
> We know the 95 of top 100 banks are using mainframes. The same for
> airlines, retailers, etc.
> Numbers presented may differ slightly, but it doesn't matter.
>
> The question is: WHAT ABOUT THE REST???
> I would like to know in details the remaining 5 cases.
>
>
>
> BTW: In Poland, due to historical reasons like communism and COCOM
> (export limitations) we were not using advanced technologies.
> In fact, before the 1989 IT in banking almost did not existed. Then we
> started from scratch, due to still existing limitations we started from
> PCs, LAN and Netware. And ICL DRS 300 (very poor). Then Unix systems
> arrived.
> In fact the first mainframe-based core banking system was launched in
> 2000. I know it well, because I was the person who launched it.
> Yes, it was pure-Internet (no branch offices) bank, called mBank.
> Today we have 3 largest banks on mainframes and some foreign banks (like
> Citi or DB) having their mainframes somewhere "in the cloud", means abroad.
> More, we have huge HSBC IT division in Cracow, despite HSBC banking
> business is not present in Poland. It it the largest IT employer in
> Cracow. With mainframe division.
> We also support Nordea, which is also not present in Poland (the were,
> but they sold the business and now hire 4000+ employees).
>
> --
> Radoslaw Skorupka
> Lodz, Poland
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


--
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Re: How does chineez banks runs their IT?

[Colin Paice]

Linkedin is a western system.I'm sure the Chinese have their own
version, and the great Chinese firewall may stop access to linkedin.   10
years ago the Chinese had WeChat, better than WhatsApp.   You could split a
bill between people.

On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 at 20:51, ITschak Mugzach  wrote:

> Five out of ten top banks in the world are from China. I believe their
> number of accounts is huge as there are almost 1.5 billion citizens in
> china.
> I looked at linkedin and none of them runs on mainframe no z/os programmers
> of any kind: developers sysprogs, DBAs, etc.).
> How do they run such a big number of acounts?
>
> ITschak
>
> ITschak Mugzach
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Re: How does Chinese banks runs their IT?

[Colin Paice]

Before I retired I had many trips to Chinese banks to help them migrate to
the next level of MQ.   At the time  I would say that some of them were
leading edge, for example a sysplex in Beijing, and a sysplex in SHanghai,
with replication both ways, so the DB2 databases were kept in sync within a
couple of seconds - a world first.
One bank had more personal current accounts than there are people living in
America (over 300 million)
The banks usually worked together informally, so good practice was shared
between them.

On Fri, 28 Jul 2023 at 04:07, Wayne Bickerdike  wrote:

> I believe that many Chinese banks ran mainframe but were limited to DOS/VSE
> not MVS due to technology embargoes.
>
> I also heard that huge numbers were running bootleg versions, including
> Hercules.
>
> When I worked in Indonesia, the company I worked at (A state enterprise)
> ran lots of unlicensed software, IBM and third parties often overlooked
> this in order to sell hardware. At the time, Hitachi were their main
> competitor.
>
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 6:44 AM Radoslaw Skorupka <
> 0471ebeac275-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > I would rephrase the question.
> > We know the 95 of top 100 banks are using mainframes. The same for
> > airlines, retailers, etc.
> > Numbers presented may differ slightly, but it doesn't matter.
> >
> > The question is: WHAT ABOUT THE REST???
> > I would like to know in details the remaining 5 cases.
> >
> >
> >
> > BTW: In Poland, due to historical reasons like communism and COCOM
> > (export limitations) we were not using advanced technologies.
> > In fact, before the 1989 IT in banking almost did not existed. Then we
> > started from scratch, due to still existing limitations we started from
> > PCs, LAN and Netware. And ICL DRS 300 (very poor). Then Unix systems
> > arrived.
> > In fact the first mainframe-based core banking system was launched in
> > 2000. I know it well, because I was the person who launched it.
> > Yes, it was pure-Internet (no branch offices) bank, called mBank.
> > Today we have 3 largest banks on mainframes and some foreign banks (like
> > Citi or DB) having their mainframes somewhere "in the cloud", means
> abroad.
> > More, we have huge HSBC IT division in Cracow, despite HSBC banking
> > business is not present in Poland. It it the largest IT employer in
> > Cracow. With mainframe division.
> > We also support Nordea, which is also not present in Poland (the were,
> > but they sold the business and now hire 4000+ employees).
> >
> > --
> > Radoslaw Skorupka
> > Lodz, Poland
> >
> > --
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>
> --
> Wayne V. Bickerdike
>
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