Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Seymour, Me too, I don’t mind helping at all. I will be first to say I don’t know let me look it up or ask someone who knows more. Scott On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 2:59 PM Seymour J Metz wrote: > Oh, I'm all for people learning. My problem is with the people who don't > learn but pretend that they did. If someone politely expresses an interst > in learning something and I have the experience and free time to help, then > I'll cheerfully extend a hand. Sometimes all I will have time for is to > point him to a reference, other times I will do more. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > of Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM > Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:34 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS > ...) > > Thanks. > Again, one is never too old to learn, even at 98.5% of one's mainframe > career. > > Kees. > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: 05 December 2019 19:49 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS > ...) > > The industry has long been afflicted by people slinging around words whose > meanings they don't know. "Hexadecimal value" is just the tip of the > iceberg. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > of Charles Mills > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:01 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) > > "Hexadecimal" might be the most misused word in our industry. "Any > hexadecimal character" -- umm, can you give me an example of a > non-hexadecimal character? Is x'C1' a hexadecimal character? Sure looks > like hex to me. > > Hexadecimal is a *method of representation*. If I have a byte that > contains b'0101 1010' that is kind of a tedious way of writing it. The > industry formerly used octal and wrote it as 0132 but that is kind of > tedious and maps poorly to 8-bit (as opposed to 6-bit) characters. x'5A' > conveys it fairly well. That method of conveyance is called hexadecimal. > The byte is not hexadecimal: it's the same byte as it was when I wrote it > as b'0101 1010'. > > "Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word > people are looking for. No byte is hexadecimal. All byte values may be > represented in hexadecimal. > > Charles > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:39 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > > On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: > > >Jeez Gil, > > > >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'. > >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you > can use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all > 256, if you accept JCL errors). > > > What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character" Is it > any > different from "any character"? If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word. > > I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: > > https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm > ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... > > I visualize a Venn diagram: > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1PM-B8kCix2WWZn6q1Vh6voOtKz7viyNw8ESZv-Aq5bojVqDLWvaBjXct5iS4oPcA185iDTfCohjIpNC-fWu8MvNQ0vJb5vItF7ZlPeUEeOIB_Rk1NSMnlSUEcA2ycq7v_x-IB6Ou1uCNNaqzvU_lVHbpYViDMTc7pkBR2V-1ariNB4Q62_cBw66z81wq3M6ETjSNnfRZAbUlNIIg1OgbAvGUWqoQRoVC2oTzmuA-eyYSLt1cxQ-kAgQ9_PqPzxBRQkSnnsVenuXrRUUtLtCiiHJBcoFCfQNaFbnOtqcbQ6Tkes8JvhUlI6P0hwD7aV_YXZjF5S-S5W3uDJ8rdQt87UuMoClaZNHuXjQQtJ1aYAPCa3_4I9TdNxiI-849oi9iSR1kTPUvE4Qh3HbS8welLlsRUUjX6vKhC7yVjGDx8i53KFggUxCu4tLCItjAHHaP/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVenn_diagram > where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters > are prohibited. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access i
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Oh, I'm all for people learning. My problem is with the people who don't learn but pretend that they did. If someone politely expresses an interst in learning something and I have the experience and free time to help, then I'll cheerfully extend a hand. Sometimes all I will have time for is to point him to a reference, other times I will do more. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM Sent: Monday, December 9, 2019 2:34 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) Thanks. Again, one is never too old to learn, even at 98.5% of one's mainframe career. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: 05 December 2019 19:49 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) The industry has long been afflicted by people slinging around words whose meanings they don't know. "Hexadecimal value" is just the tip of the iceberg. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) "Hexadecimal" might be the most misused word in our industry. "Any hexadecimal character" -- umm, can you give me an example of a non-hexadecimal character? Is x'C1' a hexadecimal character? Sure looks like hex to me. Hexadecimal is a *method of representation*. If I have a byte that contains b'0101 1010' that is kind of a tedious way of writing it. The industry formerly used octal and wrote it as 0132 but that is kind of tedious and maps poorly to 8-bit (as opposed to 6-bit) characters. x'5A' conveys it fairly well. That method of conveyance is called hexadecimal. The byte is not hexadecimal: it's the same byte as it was when I wrote it as b'0101 1010'. "Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word people are looking for. No byte is hexadecimal. All byte values may be represented in hexadecimal. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:39 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: >Jeez Gil, > >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'. >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can >use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all 256, >if you accept JCL errors). > What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character" Is it any different from "any character"? If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word. I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... I visualize a Venn diagram: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1PM-B8kCix2WWZn6q1Vh6voOtKz7viyNw8ESZv-Aq5bojVqDLWvaBjXct5iS4oPcA185iDTfCohjIpNC-fWu8MvNQ0vJb5vItF7ZlPeUEeOIB_Rk1NSMnlSUEcA2ycq7v_x-IB6Ou1uCNNaqzvU_lVHbpYViDMTc7pkBR2V-1ariNB4Q62_cBw66z81wq3M6ETjSNnfRZAbUlNIIg1OgbAvGUWqoQRoVC2oTzmuA-eyYSLt1cxQ-kAgQ9_PqPzxBRQkSnnsVenuXrRUUtLtCiiHJBcoFCfQNaFbnOtqcbQ6Tkes8JvhUlI6P0hwD7aV_YXZjF5S-S5W3uDJ8rdQt87UuMoClaZNHuXjQQtJ1aYAPCa3_4I9TdNxiI-849oi9iSR1kTPUvE4Qh3HbS8welLlsRUUjX6vKhC7yVjGDx8i53KFggUxCu4tLCItjAHHaP/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVenn_diagram where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters are prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://secure-web.cisco.com/15hUY9QRsS8Cl783xh11a7ybFJg60H56bfeVVNHJgGviqA8RyI8cNweA-XbaoZGIgHBoMC0fhzZIfI021W4bccLpKQjybwEpvlzbxS37MHh3oEZt-3t-vnz6de7w59rDiT61laaFaveO30pinySQEmJGE3IDOhDg_inx0hofnBYhAl9Wy7i474JyKHvo7nPsfaQ19rvVXCkycgtagLsPneT9bKM2xbcvxIli7MYC_WZzIr
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Learning is never a bad thing, the older you are and more experience one realizes there are a lot of items in this industry to learn... On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 2:35 AM Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM < kees.verno...@klm.com> wrote: > Thanks. > Again, one is never too old to learn, even at 98.5% of one's mainframe > career. > > Kees. > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Seymour J Metz > Sent: 05 December 2019 19:49 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS > ...) > > The industry has long been afflicted by people slinging around words whose > meanings they don't know. "Hexadecimal value" is just the tip of the > iceberg. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > of Charles Mills > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:01 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) > > "Hexadecimal" might be the most misused word in our industry. "Any > hexadecimal character" -- umm, can you give me an example of a > non-hexadecimal character? Is x'C1' a hexadecimal character? Sure looks > like hex to me. > > Hexadecimal is a *method of representation*. If I have a byte that > contains b'0101 1010' that is kind of a tedious way of writing it. The > industry formerly used octal and wrote it as 0132 but that is kind of > tedious and maps poorly to 8-bit (as opposed to 6-bit) characters. x'5A' > conveys it fairly well. That method of conveyance is called hexadecimal. > The byte is not hexadecimal: it's the same byte as it was when I wrote it > as b'0101 1010'. > > "Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word > people are looking for. No byte is hexadecimal. All byte values may be > represented in hexadecimal. > > Charles > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:39 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > > On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: > > >Jeez Gil, > > > >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'. > >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you > can use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all > 256, if you accept JCL errors). > > > What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character" Is it > any > different from "any character"? If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word. > > I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: > > https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm > ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... > > I visualize a Venn diagram: > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1PM-B8kCix2WWZn6q1Vh6voOtKz7viyNw8ESZv-Aq5bojVqDLWvaBjXct5iS4oPcA185iDTfCohjIpNC-fWu8MvNQ0vJb5vItF7ZlPeUEeOIB_Rk1NSMnlSUEcA2ycq7v_x-IB6Ou1uCNNaqzvU_lVHbpYViDMTc7pkBR2V-1ariNB4Q62_cBw66z81wq3M6ETjSNnfRZAbUlNIIg1OgbAvGUWqoQRoVC2oTzmuA-eyYSLt1cxQ-kAgQ9_PqPzxBRQkSnnsVenuXrRUUtLtCiiHJBcoFCfQNaFbnOtqcbQ6Tkes8JvhUlI6P0hwD7aV_YXZjF5S-S5W3uDJ8rdQt87UuMoClaZNHuXjQQtJ1aYAPCa3_4I9TdNxiI-849oi9iSR1kTPUvE4Qh3HbS8welLlsRUUjX6vKhC7yVjGDx8i53KFggUxCu4tLCItjAHHaP/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVenn_diagram > where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters > are prohibited. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: > http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain > confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If > you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or > any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other > action
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Thanks. Again, one is never too old to learn, even at 98.5% of one's mainframe career. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: 05 December 2019 19:49 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) The industry has long been afflicted by people slinging around words whose meanings they don't know. "Hexadecimal value" is just the tip of the iceberg. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) "Hexadecimal" might be the most misused word in our industry. "Any hexadecimal character" -- umm, can you give me an example of a non-hexadecimal character? Is x'C1' a hexadecimal character? Sure looks like hex to me. Hexadecimal is a *method of representation*. If I have a byte that contains b'0101 1010' that is kind of a tedious way of writing it. The industry formerly used octal and wrote it as 0132 but that is kind of tedious and maps poorly to 8-bit (as opposed to 6-bit) characters. x'5A' conveys it fairly well. That method of conveyance is called hexadecimal. The byte is not hexadecimal: it's the same byte as it was when I wrote it as b'0101 1010'. "Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word people are looking for. No byte is hexadecimal. All byte values may be represented in hexadecimal. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:39 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: >Jeez Gil, > >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'. >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can >use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all 256, >if you accept JCL errors). > What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character" Is it any different from "any character"? If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word. I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... I visualize a Venn diagram: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1PM-B8kCix2WWZn6q1Vh6voOtKz7viyNw8ESZv-Aq5bojVqDLWvaBjXct5iS4oPcA185iDTfCohjIpNC-fWu8MvNQ0vJb5vItF7ZlPeUEeOIB_Rk1NSMnlSUEcA2ycq7v_x-IB6Ou1uCNNaqzvU_lVHbpYViDMTc7pkBR2V-1ariNB4Q62_cBw66z81wq3M6ETjSNnfRZAbUlNIIg1OgbAvGUWqoQRoVC2oTzmuA-eyYSLt1cxQ-kAgQ9_PqPzxBRQkSnnsVenuXrRUUtLtCiiHJBcoFCfQNaFbnOtqcbQ6Tkes8JvhUlI6P0hwD7aV_YXZjF5S-S5W3uDJ8rdQt87UuMoClaZNHuXjQQtJ1aYAPCa3_4I9TdNxiI-849oi9iSR1kTPUvE4Qh3HbS8welLlsRUUjX6vKhC7yVjGDx8i53KFggUxCu4tLCItjAHHaP/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVenn_diagram where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters are prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Who could have predicted that this thread would attract so much activity on ibm-main of all places? ;-) Kirk Wolf Dovetailed Technologies http://dovetail.com > > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Candidate for a Pullet Surprise. http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?menu=c10400&no=378714&rel_no=1 On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:38 PM Charles Mills wrote: > Mea culpa. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law > > Charles > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw > Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 10:47 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS > ...) > > Whatever.. > > But. > I think the word in the title should be 'hexadecimal' rather than > 'hexadecimnal' 😉. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Mea culpa. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 10:47 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) Whatever.. But. I think the word in the title should be 'hexadecimal' rather than 'hexadecimnal' 😉. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
The industry has long been afflicted by people slinging around words whose meanings they don't know. "Hexadecimal value" is just the tip of the iceberg. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) "Hexadecimal" might be the most misused word in our industry. "Any hexadecimal character" -- umm, can you give me an example of a non-hexadecimal character? Is x'C1' a hexadecimal character? Sure looks like hex to me. Hexadecimal is a *method of representation*. If I have a byte that contains b'0101 1010' that is kind of a tedious way of writing it. The industry formerly used octal and wrote it as 0132 but that is kind of tedious and maps poorly to 8-bit (as opposed to 6-bit) characters. x'5A' conveys it fairly well. That method of conveyance is called hexadecimal. The byte is not hexadecimal: it's the same byte as it was when I wrote it as b'0101 1010'. "Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word people are looking for. No byte is hexadecimal. All byte values may be represented in hexadecimal. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:39 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: >Jeez Gil, > >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'. >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can >use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all 256, >if you accept JCL errors). > What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character" Is it any different from "any character"? If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word. I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... I visualize a Venn diagram: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1PM-B8kCix2WWZn6q1Vh6voOtKz7viyNw8ESZv-Aq5bojVqDLWvaBjXct5iS4oPcA185iDTfCohjIpNC-fWu8MvNQ0vJb5vItF7ZlPeUEeOIB_Rk1NSMnlSUEcA2ycq7v_x-IB6Ou1uCNNaqzvU_lVHbpYViDMTc7pkBR2V-1ariNB4Q62_cBw66z81wq3M6ETjSNnfRZAbUlNIIg1OgbAvGUWqoQRoVC2oTzmuA-eyYSLt1cxQ-kAgQ9_PqPzxBRQkSnnsVenuXrRUUtLtCiiHJBcoFCfQNaFbnOtqcbQ6Tkes8JvhUlI6P0hwD7aV_YXZjF5S-S5W3uDJ8rdQt87UuMoClaZNHuXjQQtJ1aYAPCa3_4I9TdNxiI-849oi9iSR1kTPUvE4Qh3HbS8welLlsRUUjX6vKhC7yVjGDx8i53KFggUxCu4tLCItjAHHaP/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVenn_diagram where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters are prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Whatever.. But. I think the word in the title should be 'hexadecimal' rather than 'hexadecimnal' 😉. Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd Web: www.rsmpartners.com ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: 05 December 2019 18:42 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) Or 12. or 9. Bring back Stretch. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 4:53 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) I pretty much stuck to the term byte for that reason. A byte is eight 1/0 bits. A character starts to get off into cultural issues. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gord Tomlin Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 11:09 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) On 2019-12-04 13:52, Tom Marchant wrote: > The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to > indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. Even that breaks down if you choose to let wide characters (e.g., UTF-16 or UTF-32) into the conversation. -- Regards, Gord Tomlin Action Software International (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 Support: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1H6HvE9GVW8CUjGXUxBZBz9a9SP4KAnqHUyKZ8PN8Op7WhWKsa1_qr2Jyl5D_wCXzWFOD-jAHJnosAtPisXXQh5BBogiAki8_SXy5_Q65RhtIVA98W-TZAEGOjLsY9NDOZ573RJdq-XrcLvqihZHRQaryBbAYlecG_3WB27bGV4t9ZcYh6lVq0LUZyPQ0uopoHp17fNVuErKhc5xEdlbo6flitqMndh62o6hc5bmuyULzxyEeRLBoYr7tcnByMaWI7cx7VEccvlcSX5cwR1OM3zYnXa3lUYrOW3D_3O6VAx4cvjMxUOqT8j2TjKQvF-CxO1kXUy9KaDKghiyXKlFKRIxbPus28beK43o15YfJJq3vXNHUiZb8OS3OdNN7jo5E7tw8_TjC4zM_UvV4UnPn8mTuelJHl9Nyo7v-e2FtmV7b3snc2fgT1G-QldcgsTQh/https%3A%2F%2Factionsoftware.com%2Fsupport%2F -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
ObPedant ITYM "raises the question"; begging the question is something quite different. Even on the same physical printer, "printable" depends on such things as UCS tables and font definitions. To add to the mess, many PC code pages have infected the code points reserved for control characters with other uses. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 5:03 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) It's true, "non-printable" begs the question of "what printer?" I have seen character sets that included little 2-character "hex" glyphs that could therefore "print" or represent any byte value. I work mostly in C++ so I tend to think in terms of the C library. The standard C library has a Boolean function isprint(). I just looked up the spec for that function and it is so self-referential as to be useless: Test for a printable character including space, as defined in the print locale source file and in the print class of the LC_CTYPE category of the current locale. (i.e., printable means printable). And I just looked up the Microsoft definition and it is even more convoluted and effectively useless. Still, I think "printable character" is useful: I think most people have a good general idea of what it means. But granted it is not so precise as, say, alphanumeric. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 10:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:01:36 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: >"Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the >word people are looking for. I disagree. "non-printable" is a term that has little meaning. Even if you mean "non-printable using a TN print train", for example, that is only a subset of the 256 possible values in a byte. The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. It could just as well be "a byte with any hexadecimal value", or "a byte with any binary value". -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Or 12. or 9. Bring back Stretch. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 4:53 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) I pretty much stuck to the term byte for that reason. A byte is eight 1/0 bits. A character starts to get off into cultural issues. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gord Tomlin Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 11:09 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) On 2019-12-04 13:52, Tom Marchant wrote: > The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to > indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. Even that breaks down if you choose to let wide characters (e.g., UTF-16 or UTF-32) into the conversation. -- Regards, Gord Tomlin Action Software International (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 Support: https://secure-web.cisco.com/1H6HvE9GVW8CUjGXUxBZBz9a9SP4KAnqHUyKZ8PN8Op7WhWKsa1_qr2Jyl5D_wCXzWFOD-jAHJnosAtPisXXQh5BBogiAki8_SXy5_Q65RhtIVA98W-TZAEGOjLsY9NDOZ573RJdq-XrcLvqihZHRQaryBbAYlecG_3WB27bGV4t9ZcYh6lVq0LUZyPQ0uopoHp17fNVuErKhc5xEdlbo6flitqMndh62o6hc5bmuyULzxyEeRLBoYr7tcnByMaWI7cx7VEccvlcSX5cwR1OM3zYnXa3lUYrOW3D_3O6VAx4cvjMxUOqT8j2TjKQvF-CxO1kXUy9KaDKghiyXKlFKRIxbPus28beK43o15YfJJq3vXNHUiZb8OS3OdNN7jo5E7tw8_TjC4zM_UvV4UnPn8mTuelJHl9Nyo7v-e2FtmV7b3snc2fgT1G-QldcgsTQh/https%3A%2F%2Factionsoftware.com%2Fsupport%2F -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Give me ligatures or give me death. Also, does foo match the normalized form of foo? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Phil Smith III Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 5:19 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) Not to mention that "character" is fuzzily defined. You might mean: byte character glyph grapheme .all of which will vary per code page, encoding, etc .phsiii (who was trying not to jump in here, but can't stand it) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
"Hexadecimal character" is a piece of faux erudition; google for "buzzword bingo". -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Paul Gilmartin <000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 10:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) Re: I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 14:09:29 -0500, Gord Tomlin wrote: >On 2019-12-04 13:52, Tom Marchant wrote: >> The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to >> indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. > >Even that breaks down if you choose to let wide characters (e.g., UTF-16 >or UTF-32) into the conversation. > At various times programmers on various hardware architectures have used "byte" to mean 6, 7, 8, 9, or 12 bits. Internet standards (RFC) have coined the unambiguous term "octet". ISTR that many releases ago the document cited explicitly forbade DBCS characters so those would not have been considered "valid hexadecimal". I no longer see the restriction; I doubt that it was ever enforced. Nowadays it requires that the "assembled length" be from 1 to 256. The motivation may have been that operator Display commands show intelligible QNAME and RNAME. But still, what code page of the console? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
Buzz Word Bingo. Eschew obfuscation. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:28 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... In my Venn diagram, there are (a.o.) alphanumeric and hexadecimal characters. One is a subset of the other, so sometimes you can use only 'some' hexadecimal characters, sometimes you can use 'all' hexadecimal characters / 'any' hexadecimal character. Since English is not my native language, my words might not express exactly what I mean. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: 04 December 2019 18:39 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: >Jeez Gil, > >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'. >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can >use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all 256, >if you accept JCL errors). > What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character" Is it any different from "any character"? If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word. I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... I visualize a Venn diagram: https://secure-web.cisco.com/10ZJHDJcnI3o0B3GaYKETiuyp9qKbQhV4a1Za1KKe79GpLmHXBK-wq_jRR_Uqbeau6Edb7uJIN3Jn3PO7nz9gYmngFYOd0sR12HE6gpD302wEet-frbleH2jaD0Dk49geMUrvMZHjPaEbTPgDzrNPU8NBUFiMDhY7C0HNSvx0-m4yimRstKA-DZksqLotobTV-snkimLNsldf0GFC569Q2JN3SP50rSwCLedaD7_F4tsRrbhh4W8ZZbEVYLp07NNL0FcHELZsx70eO_4_stkkVo7Ija2SmFZG--RwGJvAdolo0yPBavUo06athbhIVt92J3dBzOjxkmU7qh_tjiYAIqCvfG6nRB5TZjOLsDdxEA99o7a_1JFh_dRBeGc1x_R_1YI52O_zsCOFHWbqmMtPCCNE0p5X301u4wLUHkc6tOE23BGiUGdq_SO_2tk1ONSn/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVenn_diagram where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters are prohibited. I'm tempted to submit an RCF requesting a clarification. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://secure-web.cisco.com/1Xjz4Og05AwqUyXuj0rUfgVn--mjoPaPymqwLR7GUFKAL8esGziwnQ1Gdwa91LRQZannrZ0juj7p5y2ROGoB8-oAdSYkphwuEWx7VzfSQLm_pGw4BQY3NH7FKSEXss5bnAdNttZCrEUcYAPk6OMLuxxRKkAXMAbopzFxvTHM0gV66kjoA2pH9ZgxVMwnr-oUiJv7WAxd4s4X91Bd7fCucEkvE-_mM0H1iJiy-O8LgLWybGags3jyUqFFL_-yf04WcXfB2MUeNL108csdUesvVBaVX38qWlnfRO8mX-QH75L9Mt1knL6-q_Vtnxf3X10KUXQZJuWiUKz9amQHt1JUl2p_wCDfAVhw6yh9U7rYR8-Hry3aHrvP1PIIQTGxc_pQG6DnGhXjhpTxdJJcBUEV2D0kPOtOIB2ILVqv_sDABajYqt9Qw8QqB2vnuDIgsz51W/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Basically, any printable character is any character with a recognized value in your selected character set and excludes the control characters X'00'- X'1F' (in UTF-8, ASCII, and all EBCDIC code pages). Bell, Carriage Return, Line Feed, Vertical Tab, Page Feed are some assigned printer control characters that would be included in a constant or variable for a print statement. On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 4:03 PM Charles Mills wrote: > > It's true, "non-printable" begs the question of "what printer?" I have seen > character sets that included little 2-character "hex" glyphs that could > therefore "print" or represent any byte value. I work mostly in C++ so I tend > to think in terms of the C library. The standard C library has a Boolean > function isprint(). I just looked up the spec for that function and it is so > self-referential as to be useless: Test for a printable character including > space, as defined in the print locale source file and in the print class of > the LC_CTYPE category of the current locale. (i.e., printable means > printable). And I just looked up the Microsoft definition and it is even more > convoluted and effectively useless. Still, I think "printable character" is > useful: I think most people have a good general idea of what it means. But > granted it is not so precise as, say, alphanumeric. > > Charles > > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Tom Marchant > Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 10:52 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) > > On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:01:36 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: > > >"Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the > >word people are looking for. > > I disagree. "non-printable" is a term that has little meaning. > Even if you mean "non-printable using a TN print train", for > example, that is only a subset of the 256 possible values in a > byte. > > The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to > indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. > It could just as well be "a byte with any hexadecimal value", or "a > byte with any binary value". > > -- > Tom Marchant > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexacriminal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Good that someone like it :-). "Any hexadecimal character" is semantic nonsense (as many have said, one way or another). Nevertheless, it's a more-or-less established idiom meaning "any value"; and we know what they mean. sas On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 3:39 AM Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM < kees.verno...@klm.com> wrote: > Hilarious, this is what I like about this forum. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
On 2019-12-04 23:37, Paul Gilmartin wrote: It was at the beginning of the text you trimmed: Re: I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... Looks like I need to upgrade my glasses. -- Regards, Gord Tomlin Action Software International (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Hilarious, this is what I like about this forum. Throw any digital bone into the this group of dogs (no offence intended) and they will all jump on it, analyze it, cut it into pieces, rephrase it, write their solution, convince all others of their personal findings and branch off into any possible hexadecimal direction, where the process is iterated. And it even ain't Friday yet. Thanks, Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: 04 December 2019 19:52 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:01:36 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: >"Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word >people are looking for. I disagree. "non-printable" is a term that has little meaning. Even if you mean "non-printable using a TN print train", for example, that is only a subset of the 256 possible values in a byte. The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. It could just as well be "a byte with any hexadecimal value", or "a byte with any binary value". -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
See my answer to Gil about Venn diagrams. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: 04 December 2019 19:02 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) "Hexadecimal" might be the most misused word in our industry. "Any hexadecimal character" -- umm, can you give me an example of a non-hexadecimal character? Is x'C1' a hexadecimal character? Sure looks like hex to me. Hexadecimal is a *method of representation*. If I have a byte that contains b'0101 1010' that is kind of a tedious way of writing it. The industry formerly used octal and wrote it as 0132 but that is kind of tedious and maps poorly to 8-bit (as opposed to 6-bit) characters. x'5A' conveys it fairly well. That method of conveyance is called hexadecimal. The byte is not hexadecimal: it's the same byte as it was when I wrote it as b'0101 1010'. "Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word people are looking for. No byte is hexadecimal. All byte values may be represented in hexadecimal. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:39 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: >Jeez Gil, > >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'. >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can >use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all 256, >if you accept JCL errors). > What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character" Is it any different from "any character"? If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word. I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... I visualize a Venn diagram: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters are prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
In my Venn diagram, there are (a.o.) alphanumeric and hexadecimal characters. One is a subset of the other, so sometimes you can use only 'some' hexadecimal characters, sometimes you can use 'all' hexadecimal characters / 'any' hexadecimal character. Since English is not my native language, my words might not express exactly what I mean. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: 04 December 2019 18:39 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: >Jeez Gil, > >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'. >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can >use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all 256, >if you accept JCL errors). > What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character" Is it any different from "any character"? If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word. I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... I visualize a Venn diagram: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters are prohibited. I'm tempted to submit an RCF requesting a clarification. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 23:10:12 -0500, Gord Tomlin wrote: >On 2019-12-04 22:13, Paul Gilmartin wrote: >> ISTR that many releases ago the document cited explicitly forbade >> DBCS characters so those would not have been considered "valid >> hexadecimal". I no longer see the restriction; I doubt that it was >> ever enforced. > >What document is "the document"? I didn't see the OP or anyone else >refer to a specific document. > It was at the beginning of the text you trimmed: Re: I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... ... and in several earlier plies. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
On 2019-12-04 22:13, Paul Gilmartin wrote: ISTR that many releases ago the document cited explicitly forbade DBCS characters so those would not have been considered "valid hexadecimal". I no longer see the restriction; I doubt that it was ever enforced. What document is "the document"? I didn't see the OP or anyone else refer to a specific document. -- Regards, Gord Tomlin Action Software International (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Re: I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 14:09:29 -0500, Gord Tomlin wrote: >On 2019-12-04 13:52, Tom Marchant wrote: >> The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to >> indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. > >Even that breaks down if you choose to let wide characters (e.g., UTF-16 >or UTF-32) into the conversation. > At various times programmers on various hardware architectures have used "byte" to mean 6, 7, 8, 9, or 12 bits. Internet standards (RFC) have coined the unambiguous term "octet". ISTR that many releases ago the document cited explicitly forbade DBCS characters so those would not have been considered "valid hexadecimal". I no longer see the restriction; I doubt that it was ever enforced. Nowadays it requires that the "assembled length" be from 1 to 256. The motivation may have been that operator Display commands show intelligible QNAME and RNAME. But still, what code page of the console? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Not to mention that "character" is fuzzily defined. You might mean: byte character glyph grapheme .all of which will vary per code page, encoding, etc .phsiii (who was trying not to jump in here, but can't stand it) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
It's true, "non-printable" begs the question of "what printer?" I have seen character sets that included little 2-character "hex" glyphs that could therefore "print" or represent any byte value. I work mostly in C++ so I tend to think in terms of the C library. The standard C library has a Boolean function isprint(). I just looked up the spec for that function and it is so self-referential as to be useless: Test for a printable character including space, as defined in the print locale source file and in the print class of the LC_CTYPE category of the current locale. (i.e., printable means printable). And I just looked up the Microsoft definition and it is even more convoluted and effectively useless. Still, I think "printable character" is useful: I think most people have a good general idea of what it means. But granted it is not so precise as, say, alphanumeric. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 10:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:01:36 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: >"Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the >word people are looking for. I disagree. "non-printable" is a term that has little meaning. Even if you mean "non-printable using a TN print train", for example, that is only a subset of the 256 possible values in a byte. The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. It could just as well be "a byte with any hexadecimal value", or "a byte with any binary value". -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
Or, again, "any eight-bit value." Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Lock Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 1:26 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 13:52 Tom Marchant < 000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to > indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. The problem with that is “any hexadecimal character “ limits it to only sixteen different values: 0-9,A-F. The correct description would be “any eight-bit binary value”. > > It could just as well be "a byte with any hexadecimal value", or "a > byte with any binary value". > > -- > Tom Marchant > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
I pretty much stuck to the term byte for that reason. A byte is eight 1/0 bits. A character starts to get off into cultural issues. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Gord Tomlin Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 11:09 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) On 2019-12-04 13:52, Tom Marchant wrote: > The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to > indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. Even that breaks down if you choose to let wide characters (e.g., UTF-16 or UTF-32) into the conversation. -- Regards, Gord Tomlin Action Software International (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
True. The "hexadecimal characters" are clearly 0-9 and A-F/a-f. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Rupert Reynolds Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 12:27 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) >From "any hexadecimal character" my first guess would be "any character in the ranges 0 to 9 and A to F", with a further guess about whether it accepts both upper and lower case. Nothing else makes much sense to me :-) -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
My point is that "hexadecimal" there is at best unnecessary. It's just "a byte with any value" or "any character." My point is that a byte cannot *be* hexadecimal -- hexadecimal is one method of expressing a byte's value. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 10:52 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:01:36 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: >"Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the >word people are looking for. I disagree. "non-printable" is a term that has little meaning. Even if you mean "non-printable using a TN print train", for example, that is only a subset of the 256 possible values in a byte. The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. It could just as well be "a byte with any hexadecimal value", or "a byte with any binary value". -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 13:52 Tom Marchant < 000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to > indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. The problem with that is “any hexadecimal character “ limits it to only sixteen different values: 0-9,A-F. The correct description would be “any eight-bit binary value”. > > It could just as well be "a byte with any hexadecimal value", or "a > byte with any binary value". > > -- > Tom Marchant > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
>From "any hexadecimal character" my first guess would be "any character in the ranges 0 to 9 and A to F", with a further guess about whether it accepts both upper and lower case. Nothing else makes much sense to me :-) Rupert On Wed, 4 Dec 2019, 19:09 Gord Tomlin, wrote: > On 2019-12-04 13:52, Tom Marchant wrote: > > The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to > > indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. > > Even that breaks down if you choose to let wide characters (e.g., UTF-16 > or UTF-32) into the conversation. > > -- > > Regards, Gord Tomlin > Action Software International > (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) > Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 > Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/ > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
It's all 1's and 0's when it comes down to it. They key is which translator are you using at the moment. Lionel B. Dyck < Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Tony Harminc Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 2:07 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...) On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 13:52, Tom Marchant < 000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to > indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. > It could just as well be "a byte with any hexadecimal value", or "a > byte with any binary value". > Or "a byte with any value". Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 at 13:52, Tom Marchant < 000a2a8c2020-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > > The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to > indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. > It could just as well be "a byte with any hexadecimal value", or "a > byte with any binary value". > Or "a byte with any value". Tony H. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
On 2019-12-04 13:52, Tom Marchant wrote: The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. Even that breaks down if you choose to let wide characters (e.g., UTF-16 or UTF-32) into the conversation. -- Regards, Gord Tomlin Action Software International (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 10:01:36 -0800, Charles Mills wrote: >"Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the >word people are looking for. I disagree. "non-printable" is a term that has little meaning. Even if you mean "non-printable using a TN print train", for example, that is only a subset of the 256 possible values in a byte. The point of using a term like "any hexadecimal character" is to indicate that all 256 possible values in the byte are acceptable. It could just as well be "a byte with any hexadecimal value", or "a byte with any binary value". -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Misuse of the word hexadecimnal (Was RE: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...)
"Hexadecimal" might be the most misused word in our industry. "Any hexadecimal character" -- umm, can you give me an example of a non-hexadecimal character? Is x'C1' a hexadecimal character? Sure looks like hex to me. Hexadecimal is a *method of representation*. If I have a byte that contains b'0101 1010' that is kind of a tedious way of writing it. The industry formerly used octal and wrote it as 0132 but that is kind of tedious and maps poorly to 8-bit (as opposed to 6-bit) characters. x'5A' conveys it fairly well. That method of conveyance is called hexadecimal. The byte is not hexadecimal: it's the same byte as it was when I wrote it as b'0101 1010'. "Non-printable" (or sometimes non-alphanumeric/national) is the word people are looking for. No byte is hexadecimal. All byte values may be represented in hexadecimal. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2019 9:39 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: >Jeez Gil, > >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'. >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can >use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all 256, >if you accept JCL errors). > What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character" Is it any different from "any character"? If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word. I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... I visualize a Venn diagram: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters are prohibited. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
On Wed, 4 Dec 2019 07:18:11 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: >Jeez Gil, > >There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'. >Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can >use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all 256, >if you accept JCL errors). > What meaning does "hexadecimal" add in "any hexadecimal character" Is it any different from "any character"? If not, "hexadecimal" is a noise word. I'm similarly perplexed by IBM's frequent usage, as in: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.ieaa200/ENQ_Description.htm ... The name can contain any valid hexadecimal character. ... I visualize a Venn diagram: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venn_diagram where invalid hexadecimal characters and valid non-hexadecimal characters are prohibited. I'm tempted to submit an RCF requesting a clarification. -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
As we are dealing with details and detailed terminology: 'nonstandard' according to whom? Not to the PDS standards, only to JCL and ISPF standards. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sri h Kolusu Sent: 03 December 2019 17:15 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... >>How is it possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member name? Bob, Here is an example of Creating A Nonstandard member name in a PDS https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.idad400/pdsnsam.htm Thanks Kolusu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
Why not? Just like you can put any membername in a PDS with STOW, you can put any dsname in a catalog with the correct utilities, like CAMLIST etc. I remember such a dsname, which the user could not delete with ISPF, because of the syntax checking. But it did make its way into the catalog. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Mike Schwab Sent: 03 December 2019 10:55 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... And if you use quotes, the dataset name is not cataloged and you must include the volser. On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:43 AM Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw wrote: > > Well I have tried all sorts of settings for that but I cannot get it to work. > If you place the entire DSNAME and member including brackets, then the system > looks for a DSCB matching it. If you just place the member in quotes then you > get a JCL error. So I don't think JCL will support it. > > Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd > Web: www.rsmpartners.com > ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM > Sent: 03 December 2019 11:16 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > > In JCL you can put any hexadecimal character in a dsname if you enter it > between quotes. Never tried it for PDS membernames, but I suppose it will > work too. > > Kees. > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw > Sent: 03 December 2019 12:11 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > > You can store non-standard member names in PDS datasets using STOW macros. > IBM used to do this in the forerunner of SMP/E called SMP. They used large > PDSs with member names that were unprintable hex characters. > > I have not found a way to reference member names that are not upper-case > printable characters in JCL. But maybe someone knows better! > > Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd > Web: www.rsmpartners.com > ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Lionel B Dyck > Sent: 03 December 2019 10:48 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > > I'm not aware standard services allow mixed case member names - but as far as > I know PDS only works with IBM standard and I was not able, using PDS to > create a member name with lower case. > > Get it and try it - it's free. So kick the tires and see if it does what you > want. > > > Lionel B. Dyck < > Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com > > "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is > what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John > Wooden > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On > Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin > Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 7:41 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > > On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 18:57:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: > > >The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member > >names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands > >as well are case insensitive. > > > >Try it - you'll love it. > > > So if I have two members whose names differ only in the case of some > character, I can't distinguish between them with the pds command. I don't > think I'd love that. > > Are the commands case insensitive with respect to names in the PDS directory, > or only in commands? That is, suppose I have carelessly created a member > name containing a lower case character, can I use the pds command to rename > it to something more conventional? > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MA
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
Jeez Gil, There is nothing restrictive to 'hexadecimal', only to 'any' or 'some'. Between quotes you can put *any* hex char in a dsname, without quotes you can use only the *alphanumeric* hex chars. (And you *can* of course use all 256, if you accept JCL errors). Kees. On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 11:15:38 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: >In JCL you can put any hexadecimal character in a dsname if you enter >it between quotes. .. > I'm always perplexed by the apparently restrictive adjective, "hexadecial". Of the 256 EBCDIC code points, which are non-hexadecimal? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
Is StarTools also case insensitive? -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Lionel B Dyck Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 7:57 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands as well are case insensitive. Try it - you'll love it. Lionel B. Dyck < Website: http://secure-web.cisco.com/1ExNMIwGnzpjAmKgnS2CSyxsuvV6Y2Nt_hU_0UiDuWV-RkO9VAGpdM170lOGxBTlBFtfjuSO-8j5JrH3wq4M8zXNI1nt3SzdTfw8a6w9WOFwXViaeZIfpSMRsXi7faMj611tGUJwB6w21BPxd0dqzDqP4ytLMF-_f8eYBy70Twa57nev20qd6W4hmrQuXrOadGqf-CMtBrvIrh8v_LvT2EP52duVf55lDJx1khai0dlh_Iwp2LmHT2Ob4q9Y8om66AXYWlYgBaa6YHhdgXqziQJA0PtojiTHNOVBgmMhVTdbUP5mjpGu4gs7jjD-i6B0WcdcgMqb9NgnbNzN0tXeccxSMckX5Dzd8a-VHPQR6v2_Oi6Fb5HN0M8WoUi35l80ebFFrPSs9T0U0l5UY7OJMNojGjFfBYxaqNEdhX5z2dFijLKv__sM3hALwq4O1Es6s/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lbdsoftware.com "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 6:49 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 11:34:14 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >The 1st thing you should do is to get the PDS command from File 182 on the >CBTTape.org site. > >Then the copies would be this easy: > > pds large-pds copy a:f small-pds1 shr > pds large-pds copy g:z small-pds-2 shr > >And that is just one of the 100's (or 1,000's) of things you can do with it. > What does it do with mixed-case names? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
STOW has always allowed lower case characters in a member name. If you're using QSAM, READJFCB and OPENJ are your friends. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Bob Bridges Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 9:44 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... I'm not very active in the IBM-MAIN group; normally I have a rule in Outlook that moves its emails to a folder, where I may look at it or may not. But this one got to my In box somehow, and caught my attention. How is it possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member name? And even if some combination of moves make it possible, how is it possible to do it "carelessly"? --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Our cause is never more in danger than when a human, no longer desiring, but still intending, to do our Enemy's will, looks round upon a universe from which every trace of Him seems to have vanished, and asks why he has been abandoned, and still obeys. -advice to a tempter, from The Screwtape Letters by C S Lewis */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 20:40 > So if I have two members whose names differ only in the case of some character, I can't distinguish between them with the pds command. I don't think I'd love that. Are the commands case insensitive with respect to names in the PDS directory, or only in commands? That is, suppose I have carelessly created a member name containing a lower case character, can I use the pds command to rename it to something more conventional? --- On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 18:57:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member >names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands as >well are case insensitive. > >Try it - you'll love it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
ITYM that they use to support it. I was using hyphen (-) as a wild card characters in various RYO utilities and was not a happy camper when IBM disallowed it. I might have considered it reasonable if IBM had allowed a PDS as a FDS in a GDG, but since they didn't there was no possibility of confusion. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Steve Smith Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 11:00 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... PDS & PDSE per se have always supported any 8 bytes as member names with the exception of x''. The name restrictions imposed by JCL, etc. are their own thing, for their own reasons. Anyone capable of writing BPAM code could use or abuse this however it suits them. As previously mentioned, old SMP did with wild abandon. sas On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 9:45 AM Bob Bridges wrote: > How is it possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member > name? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
3278? We had dual case on our 3277 displays. Of course, it was an RPQ. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Charles Mills Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 1:36 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > This shows the folly of designing a user interface to make a case-sensitive > file system appear to be case insensitive. Agreed! Make it an option in the utility if you wish. Heck, make folding the default if you wish, but give @Gil and others the option of exploiting the full power of PDS. PDS is the name of the utility after all! The 029 is dead! The 3278 Model 1 (or whatever it was) is dead! Get over upper case. You don't see e-mails in IBM-MAIN in all upper case, do you? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 10:18 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:44:18 -0500, Bob Bridges wrote: >I'm not very active in the IBM-MAIN group; normally I have a rule in Outlook >that moves its emails to a folder, where I may look at it or may not. But >this one got to my In box somehow, and caught my attention. How is it >possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member name? > >And even if some combination of moves make it possible, how is it possible to >do it "carelessly"? > Assembler; typo in a member name in a STOW call. This shows the folly of designing a user interface to make a case-sensitive file system appear to be case insensitive. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
PDSE's support member generations but you don't see IBM's ISPF, utilities, JCL, etc. supporting them. Thinking that when one part of IBM does something that another part will take advantage may have worked 30 years ago but this isn't the IBM that we grew up with. And the PDS command is open source so feel free to contact John Kalinich and I'm sure he would love the help of anyone who wanted to provide the case insensitivity capabilities to it. Lionel B. Dyck Senior Software Engineer 21st Century Software 940 West Valley Road Suite 1604 Wayne, PA 19087 www.21stcenturysoftware.com lion...@21csw.com (800) 555-6845 x610 (610) 710-4832 – Office From the Leaders in Data Stewardship™ THIS E-MAIL MAY CONTAIN PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, COPYRIGHTED, OR OTHER LEGALLY PROTECTED INFORMATION. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT (EVEN IF THE E-MAIL ADDRESS ABOVE IS YOURS), YOU MAY NOT USE, COPY, OR RE-TRANSMIT IT. IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS BY MISTAKE PLEASE NOTIFY US BY RETURN E-MAIL, THEN DELETE. THANK YOU -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 12:55 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... That's the point. z/OS PDS(E) *does* already support mixed-case member names. Silly for a utility to defeat their usage. If IBM found the capability useful for SMP, certainly others might find the capability useful as well. Silly for JCL to defeat their usage too, but that's a different thread. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lionel B Dyck Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 10:47 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... While mixed case dataset names, mixed case member names, etc. would be nice, that would require a major update to z/OS that I don't see IBM doing. At least with OMVS you can have mixed case directories and file names - and OEdit/OBrowse work with them - even ISPF Browse/Edit/View will. Then there is OSHELL and the better UDList (3.17). Not much else in native ISPF supports the OMVS. It is what it is and we work within those constraints. We can hope that someday IBM will enhance the system for many additional capabilities and if they do I suspect many of us will be long gone from IT, if not long gone from this planet. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
That's the point. z/OS PDS(E) *does* already support mixed-case member names. Silly for a utility to defeat their usage. If IBM found the capability useful for SMP, certainly others might find the capability useful as well. Silly for JCL to defeat their usage too, but that's a different thread. Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lionel B Dyck Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 10:47 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... While mixed case dataset names, mixed case member names, etc. would be nice, that would require a major update to z/OS that I don't see IBM doing. At least with OMVS you can have mixed case directories and file names - and OEdit/OBrowse work with them - even ISPF Browse/Edit/View will. Then there is OSHELL and the better UDList (3.17). Not much else in native ISPF supports the OMVS. It is what it is and we work within those constraints. We can hope that someday IBM will enhance the system for many additional capabilities and if they do I suspect many of us will be long gone from IT, if not long gone from this planet. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
While mixed case dataset names, mixed case member names, etc. would be nice, that would require a major update to z/OS that I don't see IBM doing. At least with OMVS you can have mixed case directories and file names - and OEdit/OBrowse work with them - even ISPF Browse/Edit/View will. Then there is OSHELL and the better UDList (3.17). Not much else in native ISPF supports the OMVS. It is what it is and we work within those constraints. We can hope that someday IBM will enhance the system for many additional capabilities and if they do I suspect many of us will be long gone from IT, if not long gone from this planet. Lionel B. Dyck < Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Charles Mills Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 12:37 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > This shows the folly of designing a user interface to make a case-sensitive > file system appear to be case insensitive. Agreed! Make it an option in the utility if you wish. Heck, make folding the default if you wish, but give @Gil and others the option of exploiting the full power of PDS. PDS is the name of the utility after all! The 029 is dead! The 3278 Model 1 (or whatever it was) is dead! Get over upper case. You don't see e-mails in IBM-MAIN in all upper case, do you? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 10:18 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:44:18 -0500, Bob Bridges wrote: >I'm not very active in the IBM-MAIN group; normally I have a rule in Outlook >that moves its emails to a folder, where I may look at it or may not. But >this one got to my In box somehow, and caught my attention. How is it >possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member name? > >And even if some combination of moves make it possible, how is it possible to >do it "carelessly"? > Assembler; typo in a member name in a STOW call. This shows the folly of designing a user interface to make a case-sensitive file system appear to be case insensitive. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
> This shows the folly of designing a user interface to make a case-sensitive > file system appear to be case insensitive. Agreed! Make it an option in the utility if you wish. Heck, make folding the default if you wish, but give @Gil and others the option of exploiting the full power of PDS. PDS is the name of the utility after all! The 029 is dead! The 3278 Model 1 (or whatever it was) is dead! Get over upper case. You don't see e-mails in IBM-MAIN in all upper case, do you? Charles -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Tuesday, December 3, 2019 10:18 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:44:18 -0500, Bob Bridges wrote: >I'm not very active in the IBM-MAIN group; normally I have a rule in Outlook >that moves its emails to a folder, where I may look at it or may not. But >this one got to my In box somehow, and caught my attention. How is it >possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member name? > >And even if some combination of moves make it possible, how is it possible to >do it "carelessly"? > Assembler; typo in a member name in a STOW call. This shows the folly of designing a user interface to make a case-sensitive file system appear to be case insensitive. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 09:44:18 -0500, Bob Bridges wrote: >I'm not very active in the IBM-MAIN group; normally I have a rule in Outlook >that moves its emails to a folder, where I may look at it or may not. But >this one got to my In box somehow, and caught my attention. How is it >possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member name? > >And even if some combination of moves make it possible, how is it possible to >do it "carelessly"? > Assembler; typo in a member name in a STOW call. This shows the folly of designing a user interface to make a case-sensitive file system appear to be case insensitive. ISPF prefix commands in a member list manipulate the actual member with no name munging. >-Original Message- >From: Paul Gilmartin >Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 20:40 > >..., suppose I have carelessly >created a member name containing a lower case character, can I >use the pds command to rename it to something more conventional? On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 11:15:38 +, Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM wrote: >In JCL you can put any hexadecimal character in a dsname >if you enter it between quotes. .. > I'm always perplexed by the apparently restrictive adjective, "hexadecial". Of the 256 EBCDIC code points, which are non-hexadecimal? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
On Tue, 3 Dec 2019, at 10:47, Lionel B Dyck wrote: > I'm not aware standard services allow mixed case member names - but as > far as I know PDS only works with IBM standard and I was not able, > using PDS to create a member name with lower case. SMP/E's various storage PDSs (eg the MTS) used mixed case, in fact I think entirely binary member names back in the 1990s. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
>>How is it possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member name? Bob, Here is an example of Creating A Nonstandard member name in a PDS https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.1.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r1.idad400/pdsnsam.htm Thanks Kolusu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
PDS & PDSE per se have always supported any 8 bytes as member names with the exception of x''. The name restrictions imposed by JCL, etc. are their own thing, for their own reasons. Anyone capable of writing BPAM code could use or abuse this however it suits them. As previously mentioned, old SMP did with wild abandon. sas On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 9:45 AM Bob Bridges wrote: > How is it possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member > name? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
And if you use quotes, the dataset name is not cataloged and you must include the volser. On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 8:43 AM Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw wrote: > > Well I have tried all sorts of settings for that but I cannot get it to work. > If you place the entire DSNAME and member including brackets, then the system > looks for a DSCB matching it. If you just place the member in quotes then you > get a JCL error. So I don't think JCL will support it. > > Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd > Web: www.rsmpartners.com > ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM > Sent: 03 December 2019 11:16 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > > In JCL you can put any hexadecimal character in a dsname if you enter it > between quotes. Never tried it for PDS membernames, but I suppose it will > work too. > > Kees. > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw > Sent: 03 December 2019 12:11 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > > You can store non-standard member names in PDS datasets using STOW macros. > IBM used to do this in the forerunner of SMP/E called SMP. They used large > PDSs with member names that were unprintable hex characters. > > I have not found a way to reference member names that are not upper-case > printable characters in JCL. But maybe someone knows better! > > Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd > Web: www.rsmpartners.com > ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Lionel B Dyck > Sent: 03 December 2019 10:48 > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > > I'm not aware standard services allow mixed case member names - but as far as > I know PDS only works with IBM standard and I was not able, using PDS to > create a member name with lower case. > > Get it and try it - it's free. So kick the tires and see if it does what you > want. > > > Lionel B. Dyck < > Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com > > "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you > are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of > Paul Gilmartin > Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 7:41 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... > > On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 18:57:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: > > >The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member > >names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands > >as well are case insensitive. > > > >Try it - you'll love it. > > > So if I have two members whose names differ only in the case of some > character, I can't distinguish between them with the pds command. I don't > think I'd love that. > > Are the commands case insensitive with respect to names in the PDS directory, > or only in commands? That is, suppose I have carelessly created a member > name containing a lower case character, can I use the pds command to rename > it to something more conventional? > > -- gil > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: > http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential > and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the > addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may > be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to > this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited,
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
I'm not very active in the IBM-MAIN group; normally I have a rule in Outlook that moves its emails to a folder, where I may look at it or may not. But this one got to my In box somehow, and caught my attention. How is it possible to have a lower-case character in a PDS member name? And even if some combination of moves make it possible, how is it possible to do it "carelessly"? --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Our cause is never more in danger than when a human, no longer desiring, but still intending, to do our Enemy's will, looks round upon a universe from which every trace of Him seems to have vanished, and asks why he has been abandoned, and still obeys. -advice to a tempter, from The Screwtape Letters by C S Lewis */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 20:40 > So if I have two members whose names differ only in the case of some character, I can't distinguish between them with the pds command. I don't think I'd love that. Are the commands case insensitive with respect to names in the PDS directory, or only in commands? That is, suppose I have carelessly created a member name containing a lower case character, can I use the pds command to rename it to something more conventional? --- On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 18:57:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member >names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands as >well are case insensitive. > >Try it - you'll love it. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
Well I have tried all sorts of settings for that but I cannot get it to work. If you place the entire DSNAME and member including brackets, then the system looks for a DSCB matching it. If you just place the member in quotes then you get a JCL error. So I don't think JCL will support it. Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd Web: www.rsmpartners.com ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Vernooij, Kees (ITOP NM) - KLM Sent: 03 December 2019 11:16 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] COPYING PDS TO PDS ... In JCL you can put any hexadecimal character in a dsname if you enter it between quotes. Never tried it for PDS membernames, but I suppose it will work too. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw Sent: 03 December 2019 12:11 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... You can store non-standard member names in PDS datasets using STOW macros. IBM used to do this in the forerunner of SMP/E called SMP. They used large PDSs with member names that were unprintable hex characters. I have not found a way to reference member names that are not upper-case printable characters in JCL. But maybe someone knows better! Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd Web: www.rsmpartners.com ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Lionel B Dyck Sent: 03 December 2019 10:48 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] COPYING PDS TO PDS ... I'm not aware standard services allow mixed case member names - but as far as I know PDS only works with IBM standard and I was not able, using PDS to create a member name with lower case. Get it and try it - it's free. So kick the tires and see if it does what you want. Lionel B. Dyck < Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 7:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 18:57:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member >names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands as >well are case insensitive. > >Try it - you'll love it. > So if I have two members whose names differ only in the case of some character, I can't distinguish between them with the pds command. I don't think I'd love that. Are the commands case insensitive with respect to names in the PDS directory, or only in commands? That is, suppose I have carelessly created a member name containing a lower case character, can I use the pds command to rename it to something more conventional? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 ---
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
In JCL you can put any hexadecimal character in a dsname if you enter it between quotes. Never tried it for PDS membernames, but I suppose it will work too. Kees. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw Sent: 03 December 2019 12:11 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... You can store non-standard member names in PDS datasets using STOW macros. IBM used to do this in the forerunner of SMP/E called SMP. They used large PDSs with member names that were unprintable hex characters. I have not found a way to reference member names that are not upper-case printable characters in JCL. But maybe someone knows better! Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd Web: www.rsmpartners.com ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Lionel B Dyck Sent: 03 December 2019 10:48 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] COPYING PDS TO PDS ... I'm not aware standard services allow mixed case member names - but as far as I know PDS only works with IBM standard and I was not able, using PDS to create a member name with lower case. Get it and try it - it's free. So kick the tires and see if it does what you want. Lionel B. Dyck < Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 7:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 18:57:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member >names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands as >well are case insensitive. > >Try it - you'll love it. > So if I have two members whose names differ only in the case of some character, I can't distinguish between them with the pds command. I don't think I'd love that. Are the commands case insensitive with respect to names in the PDS directory, or only in commands? That is, suppose I have carelessly created a member name containing a lower case character, can I use the pds command to rename it to something more conventional? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN For information, services and offers, please visit our web site: http://www.klm.com. This e-mail and any attachment may contain confidential and privileged material intended for the addressee only. If you are not the addressee, you are notified that no part of the e-mail or any attachment may be disclosed, copied or distributed, and that any other action related to this e-mail or attachment is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. If you have received this e-mail by error, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, and delete this message. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij NV (KLM), its subsidiaries and/or its employees shall not be liable for the incorrect or incomplete transmission of this e-mail or any attachments, nor responsible for any delay in receipt. Koninklijke Luchtvaart Maatschappij N.V. (also known as KLM Royal Dutch Airlines) is registered in Amstelveen, The Netherlands, with registered number 33014286 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
You can store non-standard member names in PDS datasets using STOW macros. IBM used to do this in the forerunner of SMP/E called SMP. They used large PDSs with member names that were unprintable hex characters. I have not found a way to reference member names that are not upper-case printable characters in JCL. But maybe someone knows better! Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd Web: www.rsmpartners.com ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Lionel B Dyck Sent: 03 December 2019 10:48 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] COPYING PDS TO PDS ... I'm not aware standard services allow mixed case member names - but as far as I know PDS only works with IBM standard and I was not able, using PDS to create a member name with lower case. Get it and try it - it's free. So kick the tires and see if it does what you want. Lionel B. Dyck < Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 7:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 18:57:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member >names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands as >well are case insensitive. > >Try it - you'll love it. > So if I have two members whose names differ only in the case of some character, I can't distinguish between them with the pds command. I don't think I'd love that. Are the commands case insensitive with respect to names in the PDS directory, or only in commands? That is, suppose I have carelessly created a member name containing a lower case character, can I use the pds command to rename it to something more conventional? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
I'm not aware standard services allow mixed case member names - but as far as I know PDS only works with IBM standard and I was not able, using PDS to create a member name with lower case. Get it and try it - it's free. So kick the tires and see if it does what you want. Lionel B. Dyck < Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 7:41 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 18:57:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member >names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands as >well are case insensitive. > >Try it - you'll love it. > So if I have two members whose names differ only in the case of some character, I can't distinguish between them with the pds command. I don't think I'd love that. Are the commands case insensitive with respect to names in the PDS directory, or only in commands? That is, suppose I have carelessly created a member name containing a lower case character, can I use the pds command to rename it to something more conventional? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 18:57:08 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member >names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands as >well are case insensitive. > >Try it - you'll love it. > So if I have two members whose names differ only in the case of some character, I can't distinguish between them with the pds command. I don't think I'd love that. Are the commands case insensitive with respect to names in the PDS directory, or only in commands? That is, suppose I have carelessly created a member name containing a lower case character, can I use the pds command to rename it to something more conventional? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
The pds command is case insensitive in this area - dataset names and member names are all converted to upper case as is standard for z/OS. The commands as well are case insensitive. Try it - you'll love it. Lionel B. Dyck < Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Paul Gilmartin Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 6:49 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 11:34:14 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >The 1st thing you should do is to get the PDS command from File 182 on the >CBTTape.org site. > >Then the copies would be this easy: > > pds large-pds copy a:f small-pds1 shr > pds large-pds copy g:z small-pds-2 shr > >And that is just one of the 100's (or 1,000's) of things you can do with it. > What does it do with mixed-case names? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 11:34:14 -0600, Lionel B Dyck wrote: >The 1st thing you should do is to get the PDS command from File 182 on the >CBTTape.org site. > >Then the copies would be this easy: > > pds large-pds copy a:f small-pds1 shr > pds large-pds copy g:z small-pds-2 shr > >And that is just one of the 100's (or 1,000's) of things you can do with it. > What does it do with mixed-case names? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
Thanks John. It worked. Thanks to all who answered my post with their suggestions. On Monday, December 2, 2019, 05:36:29 p.m. UTC, John McKown wrote: On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:47 AM willie bunter < 001409bd2345-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > I am tryin to copy a large pds to 2 smaller pds's. I am trying to copy > all members starting from A to F to one pds and copy the rest of the > members - G to Z - to another pds. Could this be done? > I was trying IDCAMS using the COUNT and SKIP parms to no avail. > I would appreciate any suggestions. > Thanks. > > IEBCOPY using the COPYGROUP command. Ref: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.3.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r3.idau100/u10601.htm An example output that I tried on z/OS 2.3 is: IEBCOPY MESSAGES AND CONTROL STATEMENTS PAGE 1 IEB1135I IEBCOPY FMID HDZ2230 SERVICE LEVEL UA92265 DATED 20170618 DFSMS 02.03.00 z/OS 02.03.00 HBB77B0 CPU 3906 IEB1035I JOARMC$ STEP1 11:59:36 MON 02 DEC 2019 PARM='' GROUPCPY COPYGROUP INDD=I,OUTDD=O SELECT MEMBER=(A*) IEB1013I COPYING FROM PDSE INDD=I VOL=VPWRKC DSN=JOARMC.PDS.JCL IEB1014I TO PDS OUTDD=O VOL=VPWRKB DSN=JOARMC.JUNK.PDS IGW01264I TOTAL PRIMARY NAMES: 33, FILTER PATTERN MATCHES: 2 IGW01551I MEMBER AMBLIST HAS BEEN COPIED IGW01551I MEMBER ASMACL HAS BEEN COPIED IGW01550I 2 OF 2 SPECIFIED MEMBERS WERE COPIED IEB147I END OF JOB - 0 WAS HIGHEST SEVERITY CODE -- People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world. Maranatha! <>< John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
> I am tryin to copy a large pds to 2 smaller pds's. I am trying to > copy all members starting from A to F to one pds and copy the rest > of the members - G to Z - to another pds. Could this be done? Willie, If your shop has FILE-MANAGER then it is quite simple to copy using MEMSTART and MEMEND. You can find the documentation here https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSXJAV_14.1.0/com.ibm.filemanager.doc_14.1/base/dscfun.html Here is an example. //STEP0100 EXEC PGM=FILEMGR //SYSPRINT DD SYSOUT=* //SYSINDD * $$FILEM DSC DSNIN=Your.Large.PDS, $$FILEM MEMSTART=A*, $$FILEM MEMEND=F*, $$FILEM DISP=MOD, $$FILEM REPLACE=YES, $$FILEM DSNOUT=Your.SMALL.PDS1 $$FILEM DSC DSNIN=Your.Large.PDS, $$FILEM MEMSTART=G*, $$FILEM MEMEND=Z*, $$FILEM DISP=MOD, $$FILEM REPLACE=YES, $$FILEM DSNOUT=Your.SMALL.PDS2 /* Thanks, Kolusu -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
The 1st thing you should do is to get the PDS command from File 182 on the CBTTape.org site. Then the copies would be this easy: pds large-pds copy a:f small-pds1 shr pds large-pds copy g:z small-pds-2 shr And that is just one of the 100's (or 1,000's) of things you can do with it. Lionel B. Dyck < Website: http://www.lbdsoftware.com "Worry more about your character than your reputation. Character is what you are, reputation merely what others think you are." - John Wooden -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of willie bunter Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 10:45 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: COPYING PDS TO PDS ... I am tryin to copy a large pds to 2 smaller pds's. I am trying to copy all members starting from A to F to one pds and copy the rest of the members - G to Z - to another pds. Could this be done? I was trying IDCAMS using the COUNT and SKIP parms to no avail. I would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
If TSO is an option for you: 3.3, then enter the dataset names only on the source and target panels, and then, when on the panel where the members can be selected, do S A* S B* S C* S D* S E* S F* that's it for the first part. I agree: for the second part, it is not that easy ... 20 commands Another option: write a REXX using ISPF LM services. Kind regards Bernd Am 02.12.2019 um 17:44 schrieb willie bunter: I am tryin to copy a large pds to 2 smaller pds's. I am trying to copy all members starting from A to F to one pds and copy the rest of the members - G to Z - to another pds. Could this be done? I was trying IDCAMS using the COUNT and SKIP parms to no avail. I would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 10:47 AM willie bunter < 001409bd2345-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > I am tryin to copy a large pds to 2 smaller pds's. I am trying to copy > all members starting from A to F to one pds and copy the rest of the > members - G to Z - to another pds. Could this be done? > I was trying IDCAMS using the COUNT and SKIP parms to no avail. > I would appreciate any suggestions. > Thanks. > > IEBCOPY using the COPYGROUP command. Ref: https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_2.3.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r3.idau100/u10601.htm An example output that I tried on z/OS 2.3 is: IEBCOPY MESSAGES AND CONTROL STATEMENTS PAGE 1 IEB1135I IEBCOPY FMID HDZ2230 SERVICE LEVEL UA92265 DATED 20170618 DFSMS 02.03.00 z/OS02.03.00 HBB77B0 CPU 3906 IEB1035I JOARMC$ STEP111:59:36 MON 02 DEC 2019 PARM='' GROUPCPY COPYGROUP INDD=I,OUTDD=O SELECT MEMBER=(A*) IEB1013I COPYING FROM PDSE INDD=IVOL=VPWRKC DSN=JOARMC.PDS.JCL IEB1014I TO PDS OUTDD=OVOL=VPWRKB DSN=JOARMC.JUNK.PDS IGW01264I TOTAL PRIMARY NAMES: 33, FILTER PATTERN MATCHES: 2 IGW01551I MEMBER AMBLIST HAS BEEN COPIED IGW01551I MEMBER ASMACL HAS BEEN COPIED IGW01550I 2 OF 2 SPECIFIED MEMBERS WERE COPIED IEB147I END OF JOB - 0 WAS HIGHEST SEVERITY CODE -- People in sleeping bags are the soft tacos of the bear world. Maranatha! <>< John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
COPYING PDS TO PDS ...
I am tryin to copy a large pds to 2 smaller pds's. I am trying to copy all members starting from A to F to one pds and copy the rest of the members - G to Z - to another pds. Could this be done? I was trying IDCAMS using the COUNT and SKIP parms to no avail. I would appreciate any suggestions. Thanks. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
