Re: HSM Backup to Disk
VTS does wonders for HSM. Others have made good points about having all of the backup copies on disk. One other thing that I would like to point out would be the increase in CPU consumption and elapsed time. With tape, the compression is done within the tape controller. If you are backing up to disk, HSM must do the compression. That will significantly increase the CPU and will probably elongate the elapsed time. If you do go with disk, I would highly recommend using zEDC for the compression. That will actually decrease the CPU and improve the elapsed time because the compression ratio is so good and the data is compressed by DSS before being passed to HSM. Cloud Tape Connector is not an option for HSM data. CTC works on SMS tape data sets, of which HSM and OAM data are not. As noted earlier in this same thread, HSM stacks the data on tape as a single tape file and internally manages the location of each logical data set on tape by storing the File Block ID. CTC doesn't work with this type of setup. Regarding Cloud Storage, HSM and DS8K recently announced support for Transparent Cloud Tiering where the DS8K directly writes migration data to cloud storage. The storage can either be on prem or off prem. The value being that the data no longer flows through the z server, significantly reducing the CPU requirements and eliminating RECYCLE processing. But, backup support is not yet available. For those concerned about the data going to 'the cloud', we expect most z data to go to an on prem cloud, which is within the walls of your existing environments. When going to an off prem cloud, z/OS will be providing data set level encryption, so that the data is encrypted on z before being sent out. By policy, data will be able to be sent to ML2, on prem cloud or an off prem (public or private) cloud. Additionally, IBM announced limited support for this same cloud support to target an IBM VTS. This enables direct data movement between an IBM DS8K and IBM VTS for HSM migration and recall processing, also enabling significant CPU reduction, elimination of 16K block writes and elimination of RECYCLE processing. Glenn Wilcock DFSMShsm Architect -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: HSM Backup to Disk
I originally interpreted the question as 'how to replace (all) tape with 3390 DASD?'. VTS is a worthy choice to eliminate traditional tape as we all know and (maybe) love it. Behind the virtual tape drives--actually server disk emulation as already mentioned--are a set of 'real tape drives' that provide permanent and low(er) cost media for data used infrequently or maybe even never but must nevertheless be retained indefinitely. Starting with VTS from the ground up is a big deal. First off you have to decide on a vendor, which is no trivial feat. Implementing is a fairly major project, although end users should be lightly affected if at all. In other words, you want to have VTS in place and functioning comfortably well before you redirect HSM migration. . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Heffner Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 6:40 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: HSM Backup to Disk Moving HSM backup to disk is just one option we are looking at, we are also looking at VTS which I think is going to be the best solution for us. I was told by our DASD vendor that HSM is architected to use tape for backup, and using disk can be harder to manage. To implement a VTS would mean a simple recycle to get the 'real tape' backups to virtual tape, but I would still prefer to get the VTS on the floor a few months ahead if we can and let the tape backups fall off the end, then recycle what is left. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: HSM Backup to Disk
Moving HSM backup to disk is just one option we are looking at, we are also looking at VTS which I think is going to be the best solution for us. I was told by our DASD vendor that HSM is architected to use tape for backup, and using disk can be harder to manage. To implement a VTS would mean a simple recycle to get the 'real tape' backups to virtual tape, but I would still prefer to get the VTS on the floor a few months ahead if we can and let the tape backups fall off the end, then recycle what is left. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: HSM Backup to Disk
Innovation has a product that does point in time copies and its extremely fast. It was set up when all the primary DASD was in the 1000 to 1 range The FDR DASD was in the 2000-2FF00 range. The we would SNAP the 1000 to 1 in groups of 48 the 2FFFxx range then dump the Point in time backups. However there was an over decision to go to an all DISK Solution. The 2 range was never addressable or copied over to the DR box -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tom Marchant Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:59 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: HSM Backup to Disk On Tue, 30 May 2017 15:51:55 -0500, John McKown wrote: >On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Rugen, Len wrote: > >> Would the cloud tape connector work? >> https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?subtype= >> ca&infotype=an&supplier=897&letternum=ENUS216-052 > > >[shudder] I hope that _everything_ that is sent to such an environment >is encrypted. And not really too important. I've read too many stories >about off-site providers who just plain failed. Making the data >irretrievable either permanently or until the courts "do something". I agree. I wouldn't want to trust that my data was safe in the fog. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: HSM Backup to Disk
On Tue, 30 May 2017 15:51:55 -0500, John McKown wrote: >On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Rugen, Len wrote: > >> Would the cloud tape connector work? >> https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?subtype= >> ca&infotype=an&supplier=897&letternum=ENUS216-052 > > >[shudder] I hope that _everything_ that is sent to such an environment is >encrypted. And not really too important. I've read too many stories about >off-site providers who just plain failed. Making the data irretrievable >either permanently or until the courts "do something". I agree. I wouldn't want to trust that my data was safe in the fog. -- Tom Marchant -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: HSM Backup to Disk
On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Rugen, Len wrote: > Would the cloud tape connector work? > https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?subtype= > ca&infotype=an&supplier=897&letternum=ENUS216-052 [shudder] I hope that _everything_ that is sent to such an environment is encrypted. And not really too important. I've read too many stories about off-site providers who just plain failed. Making the data irretrievable either permanently or until the courts "do something". > > > Len Rugen > > -- Windows. A funny name for a operating system that doesn't let you see anything. Maranatha! <>< John McKown -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: HSM Backup to Disk
Would the cloud tape connector work? https://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?subtype=ca&infotype=an&supplier=897&letternum=ENUS216-052 Len Rugen Metrics and Automation – umdoitmetr...@missouri.edu -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Jesse 1 Robinson Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:33 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: HSM Backup to Disk The question of how much DASD you need strikes me as a can of worms. I doubt that we are unique in being legally required to keep 'some data' for the life of the corporation. Even if it's not a substantial percentage of the total, it's non-trivial and means that forever you will need to add more and more acreage to the DASD farm even if your 'live data' needs remain static--an unoptimistic forecast at best. I understand the short-term appeal of eliminating an entire peripheral component. I also understand the long-term agony of being required by a judge to cough up data that you can no longer retrieve. The rosy take is that your head will plop in the guillotine basket alongside your CEO's. ;-) . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: HSM Backup to Disk Note: We have found using a VTS (Virtual Tape System) - any hardware vendor - works very well. The device is a little DASD farm on the inside and our BACKUPs and MIGRATION datasets are super-fast to retrieve Expansion on point 2: You may need more DASD than you did TAPE. I think with TAPE the BACKUP datasets are stacked. When you write to DASD - I think they become individual dataset and may require more room Lizette > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:11 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: HSM Backup to Disk > > So my thoughts are > > 1) Yes you can do this > 2) You may need more dasd that tape > 3) You will be tying up DASD for a long time for backups. > 4) You will need to determine how long your longest Backup dataset > is held for. > > An HSM Backup is used to recover files. So if this is part of a DR > process, then you need to account for that policy as well. > > Also determine how is your HSM BACKUP datasets sent to a DR site (if > they are > sent) and identify that as part of the DASD requirements. > > Lizette > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Heffner > > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 10:03 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: HSM Backup to Disk > > > > First off, I would like to say I am not an HSM expert, I am > > supporting HSM while a coworker is on medical leave. The company is > > looking to eliminate tape from the environment and I would like to > > know the best (or perhaps only) way to move HSM automatic backup from tape > > to disk. > > My feeling is we need to obtain the disk space needed well ahead of > > the elimination of tape, then set backups to go to disk instead of > > tape, and just let the tape backups drop off through attrition. > > There are some backups that we keep up to 200 days. Any other > > ideas? This is > z/OS 2.2. > > Thanks -- Bob Heffner -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: HSM Backup to Disk
The question of how much DASD you need strikes me as a can of worms. I doubt that we are unique in being legally required to keep 'some data' for the life of the corporation. Even if it's not a substantial percentage of the total, it's non-trivial and means that forever you will need to add more and more acreage to the DASD farm even if your 'live data' needs remain static--an unoptimistic forecast at best. I understand the short-term appeal of eliminating an entire peripheral component. I also understand the long-term agony of being required by a judge to cough up data that you can no longer retrieve. The rosy take is that your head will plop in the guillotine basket alongside your CEO's. ;-) . . J.O.Skip Robinson Southern California Edison Company Electric Dragon Team Paddler SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager 323-715-0595 Mobile 626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW robin...@sce.com -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:14 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: (External):Re: HSM Backup to Disk Note: We have found using a VTS (Virtual Tape System) - any hardware vendor - works very well. The device is a little DASD farm on the inside and our BACKUPs and MIGRATION datasets are super-fast to retrieve Expansion on point 2: You may need more DASD than you did TAPE. I think with TAPE the BACKUP datasets are stacked. When you write to DASD - I think they become individual dataset and may require more room Lizette > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:11 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: HSM Backup to Disk > > So my thoughts are > > 1) Yes you can do this > 2) You may need more dasd that tape > 3) You will be tying up DASD for a long time for backups. > 4) You will need to determine how long your longest Backup dataset > is held for. > > An HSM Backup is used to recover files. So if this is part of a DR > process, then you need to account for that policy as well. > > Also determine how is your HSM BACKUP datasets sent to a DR site (if > they are > sent) and identify that as part of the DASD requirements. > > Lizette > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > > [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Heffner > > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 10:03 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: HSM Backup to Disk > > > > First off, I would like to say I am not an HSM expert, I am > > supporting HSM while a coworker is on medical leave. The company is > > looking to eliminate tape from the environment and I would like to > > know the best (or perhaps only) way to move HSM automatic backup from tape > > to disk. > > My feeling is we need to obtain the disk space needed well ahead of > > the elimination of tape, then set backups to go to disk instead of > > tape, and just let the tape backups drop off through attrition. > > There are some backups that we keep up to 200 days. Any other > > ideas? This is > z/OS 2.2. > > Thanks -- Bob Heffner -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: HSM Backup to Disk
Note: We have found using a VTS (Virtual Tape System) - any hardware vendor - works very well. The device is a little DASD farm on the inside and our BACKUPs and MIGRATION datasets are super-fast to retrieve Expansion on point 2: You may need more DASD than you did TAPE. I think with TAPE the BACKUP datasets are stacked. When you write to DASD - I think they become individual dataset and may require more room Lizette > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Lizette Koehler > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 11:11 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: HSM Backup to Disk > > So my thoughts are > > 1) Yes you can do this > 2) You may need more dasd that tape > 3) You will be tying up DASD for a long time for backups. > 4) You will need to determine how long your longest Backup dataset is held > for. > > An HSM Backup is used to recover files. So if this is part of a DR process, > then you need to account for that policy as well. > > Also determine how is your HSM BACKUP datasets sent to a DR site (if they are > sent) and identify that as part of the DASD requirements. > > Lizette > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] > > On Behalf Of Robert Heffner > > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 10:03 AM > > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > > Subject: HSM Backup to Disk > > > > First off, I would like to say I am not an HSM expert, I am supporting > > HSM while a coworker is on medical leave. The company is looking to > > eliminate tape from the environment and I would like to know the best > > (or perhaps only) way to move HSM automatic backup from tape to disk. > > My feeling is we need to obtain the disk space needed well ahead of > > the elimination of tape, then set backups to go to disk instead of > > tape, and just let the tape backups drop off through attrition. There > > are some backups that we keep up to 200 days. Any other ideas? This is > z/OS 2.2. > > Thanks -- Bob Heffner > > > > -- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send > > email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: HSM Backup to Disk
So my thoughts are 1) Yes you can do this 2) You may need more dasd that tape 3) You will be tying up DASD for a long time for backups. 4) You will need to determine how long your longest Backup dataset is held for. An HSM Backup is used to recover files. So if this is part of a DR process, then you need to account for that policy as well. Also determine how is your HSM BACKUP datasets sent to a DR site (if they are sent) and identify that as part of the DASD requirements. Lizette > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On > Behalf Of Robert Heffner > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 10:03 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: HSM Backup to Disk > > First off, I would like to say I am not an HSM expert, I am supporting HSM > while a coworker is on medical leave. The company is looking to eliminate > tape from the environment and I would like to know the best (or perhaps only) > way to move HSM automatic backup from tape to disk. My feeling is we need to > obtain the disk space needed well ahead of the elimination of tape, then set > backups to go to disk instead of tape, and just let the tape backups drop off > through attrition. There are some backups that we keep up to 200 days. Any > other ideas? This is z/OS 2.2. > Thanks -- Bob Heffner > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: HSM Backup to Disk
Sounds about right. There is an HSM parameter the can direct backup output to disk instead of tape. Could'nt find it in a quick perusal. You and also accelerate the elimination of tape with the recycleoutput parameter and run recycles until all tapes are released. HTH and good luck, ::DISCLAIMER:: The contents of this e-mail and any attachment(s) are confidential and intended for the named recipient(s) only. E-mail transmission is not guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or may contain viruses in transmission. The e mail and its contents (with or without referred errors) shall therefore not attach any liability on the originator or HCL or its affiliates. Views or opinions, if any, presented in this email are solely those of the author and may not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of HCL or its affiliates. Any form of reproduction, dissemination, copying, disclosure, modification, distribution and / or publication of this message without the prior written consent of authorized representative of HCL is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify the sender immediately. Before opening any email and/or attachments, please check them for viruses and other defects. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
HSM Backup to Disk
First off, I would like to say I am not an HSM expert, I am supporting HSM while a coworker is on medical leave. The company is looking to eliminate tape from the environment and I would like to know the best (or perhaps only) way to move HSM automatic backup from tape to disk. My feeling is we need to obtain the disk space needed well ahead of the elimination of tape, then set backups to go to disk instead of tape, and just let the tape backups drop off through attrition. There are some backups that we keep up to 200 days. Any other ideas? This is z/OS 2.2. Thanks -- Bob Heffner -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
