Re: One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2014-01-02 Thread Rouse, Willie
Come on Warren...I've heard that story  50 times already :-)

Happy New Year
Willie

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Warren Brown
Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2014 2:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

Actually, there was a desktop computer called GENIAC which came out in 1955. 
Quite crude but it worked fine.  I got an unmolested one off ebay about a year 
ago.  I first saw one when I was an IBM CE in the sixties.


Heathkit had an analog computer in 1956.  Again I got one off ebay two years ago

In early 1970's an electronics magazine featured a four bit computer based on 
the Intel 4004 chip.


GENIAC --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geniac 
HEATHKIT -- http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/heath_educational_analog_compu.html 
4004 --  
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/history/museum-story-of-intel-4004.html

ANTIQUE COLLECTOR 
 


 From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube
  

In 1388417488.11875.16.camel@localhost, on 12/30/2013
   at 10:31 AM, David Andrews d...@lists.duda.com said:

Though the wikipedia article doesn't mention it, my recollection is
that Magnuson's M80 system was microprogrammable by the user. 
Anybody remember/use that?

Remember.

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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2014-01-02 Thread Kirk Talman
1 - PDP stood for personal data processor.  The PDP-1 was advertised w/a 
teddy bear which I believe was delivered with it.  So it depends how big 
your desk was.

2 - In the 1960s @ Oak Ridge it was common to order equipment, including 
computers, by adding parts of the product specs into the bid requirements. 
 I was told of one RPQ (or whatever they were I called - I can't remember) 
that was passed on by all vendors.  A discreet call was made to one vendor 
and they were asked to compare the RPQ to the specs for one of their 
computers.  I think the equipment was a PDP-8S but I don' trust the 
memory.  They were ideal for interfacing to experiments because they were 
cheap to buy and cheap to implement and they came with logic boards 
running on the same backplane that could be used for interfacing at low 
cost.

Originally needed interfaces were either made completely in house or built 
from off the shelf equipment seriously modified by the electronic techs. 
 Later companies like Ortec (bought by EGG) and Tennelec were founded by 
lab scientists to build commonly used equipment.

In our labs (physics, chemistry, ...) you could build or have built 
whatever your budget would allow.  The Mathematics Division (incl. Robert 
Rannie of Share fame) were too busy trying to get the mainframes doing 
their assigned job.

IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU wrote on 
12/29/2013 04:28:19 PM:

 From: Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU, 
 Date: 12/29/2013 04:28 PM
 Subject: Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube 
 Sent by: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 
 On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 14:30:52 -0600, Andy Wood wrote:
 
 Some may say that the HP 9100 was only a calculator, but Bill 
 Hewlett himself supposedly said that HP called it a calculator 
 rather than a computer as a marketing ploy (knowing that potential 
 customers could more easily justify the purchase of a calculator 
 than of a computer.
  
 Expensive calculator vs. low-priced computer.  Perhaps somewhat 
thereafter
 DEC was advertising the PDP-8 with such as Aha!  The old 'computer in a
 gas chromatograph trick!'  And a coworker of mine told of an experience
 in a physics lab of outflanking the IT Politburo by ordering an 
expansion
 memory as an addressable latch.
 
 I suppose there persists a doughnut hole between the desktop and the
 Enterprise where IT continues to obstruct purchases, according to
 Parkinson's Law of Triviality.
 
 In context of that video, the HP 9100 is particularly significant -
 Athur C. Clarke had been presented with one by HP in 1970.
  
 Is that Clarke?  I'm not entirely familiar with his appearance.  And the
 filming location?  Sri Lanka?
 
 -- gil


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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2014-01-02 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Thu, 2 Jan 2014 13:31:27 -0500, Kirk Talman wrote:

$)C1 - PDP stood for personal data processor.  The PDP-1 was advertised w/a
teddy bear which I believe was delivered with it.  So it depends how big
your desk was.

Programmed Data Processor, I heard at MIT circa 1962.

2 - In the 1960s @ Oak Ridge it was common to order equipment, including
computers, by adding parts of the product specs into the bid requirements.
 
I can top that.  I was once hired for a state job under civil service where
the job announcement was practically a paraphrase of my résumé.  I knew
the person who was to be my lead; I didn't ask questions.

-- gil

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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2014-01-02 Thread John Gilmore
Kurt Talman wrote

| 1 - PDP stood for personal data processor.

John McCarthy insisted that it was an acronym for Programmed Data
Processor and objected to it as all but vacuous, too generic because
it described any computer.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: ó One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2014-01-02 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In
ofca19006c.9b43266e-on85257c54.006478fb-85257c54.0065c...@tsys.com,
on 01/02/2014
   at 01:31 PM, Kirk Talman rkueb...@tsys.com said:

PDP stood for personal data processor. 

Programmable.
 
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Re: One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2014-01-01 Thread Warren Brown
Actually, there was a desktop computer called GENIAC which came out in 1955. 
Quite crude but it worked fine.  I got an unmolested one off ebay about a year 
ago.  I first saw one when I was an IBM CE in the sixties.


Heathkit had an analog computer in 1956.  Again I got one off ebay two years ago

In early 1970's an electronics magazine featured a four bit computer based on 
the Intel 4004 chip.


GENIAC --  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geniac 
HEATHKIT -- http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/heath_educational_analog_compu.html 
4004 --  
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/history/museum-story-of-intel-4004.html

ANTIQUE COLLECTOR 
 


 From: Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) shmuel+ibm-m...@patriot.net
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube
  

In 1388417488.11875.16.camel@localhost, on 12/30/2013
   at 10:31 AM, David Andrews d...@lists.duda.com said:

Though the wikipedia article doesn't mention it, my recollection is
that Magnuson's M80 system was microprogrammable by the user. 
Anybody remember/use that?

Remember.

-- 
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     ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
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Re: ¢† One day , a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2014-01-01 Thread Randy Hudson
In article p06240802cee6934cf57b@[192.168.1.11],
 Robert A. Rosenberg IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU wrote:

 [Arthur C Clarke] also invented/predicted the synchronous satellite
 being used for communications. I saw a picture of him at a Science Fiction
 Convention wearing a T-Shirt which read I invented the synchronous
 satellite and all I got was this T-Shirt to make this point.

He not only predicted it (including pointing out the orbit it required to
function), he predicted that it would be used to allow sufficiently-wealthy
citizens to evade laws against pornography, and incidentally referred to
that predicted pornography targeting the four major sexes, implicitly
de-marginalizing homosexual men and homosexual women. 

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Re: One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-31 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In 1388417488.11875.16.camel@localhost, on 12/30/2013
   at 10:31 AM, David Andrews d...@lists.duda.com said:

Though the wikipedia article doesn't mention it, my recollection is
that Magnuson's M80 system was microprogrammable by the user. 
Anybody remember/use that?

Remember.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
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Re: One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-30 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
In m3zjnjsodg@garlic.com, on 12/29/2013
   at 09:50 AM, Anne  Lynn Wheeler l...@garlic.com said:

note that (at least low-end and mid-range) 360s  370s were emulation
on some native microprocessor ... so 5100 wasn't all that different.

The data paths on the 2030, 2040, 2050, 2065 and 2085 were designed
with simulating a S/360 in mind. Was the same true of the 5100?
 
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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-30 Thread David Andrews
On Sun, 2013-12-29 at 09:50 -0500, Anne  Lynn Wheeler wrote:
 total kernel time ... moved to microcode gained approx. 72% of kernel
 time.

Though the wikipedia article doesn't mention it, my recollection is that
Magnuson's M80 system was microprogrammable by the user.  Anybody
remember/use that?

-- 
David Andrews
A. Duda  Sons, Inc.
david.andr...@duda.com

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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-30 Thread David Andrews
On Sun, 2013-12-29 at 14:30 -0600, Andy Wood wrote:
 HP called it a calculator rather than a computer as a marketing ploy

Heh.  Bob Brigham once told me that the Bell System made electronic
switching systems (ESS) because they were prohibited from marketing
computers.

-- 
David Andrews
A. Duda  Sons, Inc.
david.andr...@duda.com

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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-30 Thread Scott Ford
David, 

I remember the magnuson, it was PCM for IBM s/370s, I *think*..

Scott ford
www.identityforge.com
from my IPAD

'Infinite wisdom through infinite means'


 On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:31 AM, David Andrews d...@lists.duda.com wrote:
 
 On Sun, 2013-12-29 at 09:50 -0500, Anne  Lynn Wheeler wrote:
 total kernel time ... moved to microcode gained approx. 72% of kernel
 time.
 
 Though the wikipedia article doesn't mention it, my recollection is that
 Magnuson's M80 system was microprogrammable by the user.  Anybody
 remember/use that?
 
 -- 
 David Andrews
 A. Duda  Sons, Inc.
 david.andr...@duda.com
 
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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-30 Thread DASDBILL2
In 1974, when that video was taped, a desk would fit on a computer.  :-) 
Bill Fairchild 

- Original Message -

From: Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2013 8:26:12 AM 
Subject: Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube 

It shows how hard it is to predict the distant future. Predictions either come 
sooner than predicted, or not at all. The Altair 8800 was only one year away; 
the TRS-80 only three years distant. 

Charles 

-Original Message- 
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Warren Brown 
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:29 PM 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube 

AMAZING 
  

 
 From: Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net 
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:08 PM 
Subject: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube 
   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTdWQAKzESA 

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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-30 Thread Tony Harminc
On 30 December 2013 10:31, David Andrews d...@lists.duda.com wrote:
 Though the wikipedia article doesn't mention it, my recollection is that
 Magnuson's M80 system was microprogrammable by the user.  Anybody
 remember/use that?

Much earlier the 370/165 and /168 had a Load MicroProgram instruction
that loaded microcode from main storage. X'B9', iirc. Used by OLTEP
tests, I think.

Tony H.

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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-30 Thread zMan
That could make for some VERY interesting results from a bad branch...maybe
that's why modern PCs sometimes wedge to the point of needing a power
cycle: they've reimplemented this technology! :-D


On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Tony Harminc t...@harminc.net wrote:

 On 30 December 2013 10:31, David Andrews d...@lists.duda.com wrote:
  Though the wikipedia article doesn't mention it, my recollection is that
  Magnuson's M80 system was microprogrammable by the user.  Anybody
  remember/use that?

 Much earlier the 370/165 and /168 had a Load MicroProgram instruction
 that loaded microcode from main storage. X'B9', iirc. Used by OLTEP
 tests, I think.

 Tony H.

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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-30 Thread David Andrews
On Mon, 2013-12-30 at 14:55 -0500, Tony Harminc wrote:
 Much earlier the 370/165 and /168 had a Load MicroProgram instruction
 that loaded microcode from main storage. X'B9', iirc. Used by OLTEP
 tests, I think.

I have a hazy memory of the /145 having a similar instruction (possibly
a variant of DIAGNOSE).  It required the CE key to be present.

I turned on lots of red lights on that /145 console trying to adjust the
barricade register that separated microcode store from s370 store.  That
machine was a private playground for a few of us on the weekends, a
half-million-dollar Adventure game.  I kinda miss those days.

-- 
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david.andr...@duda.com

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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-29 Thread Elardus Engelbrecht
Ed Gould wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTdWQAKzESA

My, oh my! Thanks Ed. That bold claim came true at all! ;-)

Nice vid, I must admit!

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-29 Thread Charles Mills
It shows how hard it is to predict the distant future. Predictions either come 
sooner than predicted, or not at all. The Altair 8800 was only one year away; 
the TRS-80 only three years distant.

Charles

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Warren Brown
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:29 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

AMAZING
 


 From: Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:08 PM
Subject: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube
  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTdWQAKzESA

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Re: ? One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-29 Thread Binyamin Dissen
He also predicted home networking. That was quite a while later.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 09:26:12 -0500 Charles Mills charl...@mcn.org wrote:

:It shows how hard it is to predict the distant future. Predictions either 
come sooner than predicted, or not at all. The Altair 8800 was only one year 
away; the TRS-80 only three years distant.
:
:Charles
:
:-Original Message-
:From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On 
Behalf Of Warren Brown
:Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:29 PM
:To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
:Subject: Re: ? One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube
:
:AMAZING
: 
:
:
: From: Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net
:To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
:Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:08 PM
:Subject: ? One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube
:  
:
:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTdWQAKzESA

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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-29 Thread Anne Lynn Wheeler
edgould1...@comcast.net (Ed Gould) writes:
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTdWQAKzESA

IBM 5100 1973 at Palo Alto Science Center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5100

enuf of 1130 emulation to run apl\1130 (SCAMP)

product out in 1978 was enuf of 360 emulation (on PALM) to run apl\360

note that (at least low-end and mid-range) 360s  370s were emulation on
some native microprocessor ... so 5100 wasn't all that different.

PASC also did the apl microcode assist for 370/145 ... apl with
microcode assist on 145 ran almost as fast os on 370/168.

some person also helped with the vm370 microcode assist for 138  148.

Spring 1975, I got sucked into helping endicott do ecps for 138/148
(virgil/tully) ... it was sort of part of the mad rush to get out 370
products after the dearth during the FS period (which is also credited
with giving clone processors a market foothold)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#futuresys

Endicott had 6kbyte space for microcode and was to select the 6kbyte of
highest used vm370 kernel pathlength. Typical 360/370 microcode
emulation ran an avg. of 10 native instructions per 360/370 instruction.
runs that measured elapsed time  frequency of kernel instruction
sequences ... sorted by percent of total kernel time
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/94.html#21

kernel 370-native instructioins translated almost byte-for-byte ...  so
6kbytes of highest used kernel instructions accounted for 79+ percent of
total kernel time ... moved to microcode gained approx. 72% of kernel
time.

then they sucked in to spending a year offon running around the world
laying out 138/148 to the product administrators and business
forecasters in the different countries ... going over details about
how they stacked up against the competition.


-- 
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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-29 Thread Andy Wood
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 09:50:03 -0500, Anne  Lynn Wheeler l...@garlic.com wrote:


IBM 5100 1973 at Palo Alto Science Center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5100



Besides the IBM 5100, there were other desktop machines that could be called 
computers.

Two that I personally encountered were the Datapoint 2200 from 1971, and the HP 
9100 from 1968.

Some may say that the HP 9100 was only a calculator, but Bill Hewlett himself 
supposedly said that HP called it a calculator rather than a computer as a 
marketing ploy (knowing that potential customers could more easily justify the 
purchase of a calculator than of a computer.

In context of that video, the HP 9100 is particularly significant - Athur C. 
Clarke had been presented with one by HP in 1970.

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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-29 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 14:30:52 -0600, Andy Wood wrote:

Some may say that the HP 9100 was only a calculator, but Bill Hewlett himself 
supposedly said that HP called it a calculator rather than a computer as a 
marketing ploy (knowing that potential customers could more easily justify the 
purchase of a calculator than of a computer.
 
Expensive calculator vs. low-priced computer.  Perhaps somewhat thereafter
DEC was advertising the PDP-8 with such as Aha!  The old 'computer in a
gas chromatograph trick!'  And a coworker of mine told of an experience
in a physics lab of outflanking the IT Politburo by ordering an expansion
memory as an addressable latch.

I suppose there persists a doughnut hole between the desktop and the
Enterprise where IT continues to obstruct purchases, according to
Parkinson's Law of Triviality.

In context of that video, the HP 9100 is particularly significant - Athur C. 
Clarke had been presented with one by HP in 1970.
 
Is that Clarke?  I'm not entirely familiar with his appearance.  And the
filming location?  Sri Lanka?

-- gil

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Re: ¢† One day , a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-29 Thread Robert A. Rosenberg
At 15:28 -0600 on 12/29/2013, Paul Gilmartin wrote about Re: ’ñ One 
day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - You:


 In context of that video, the HP 9100 is particularly significant 
- Athur C. Clarke had been presented with one by HP in 1970.



Is that Clarke?  I'm not entirely familiar with his appearance.


Yes that was him (the author of 2001: A Space Odyssey). That clip 
looks like it was part of a longer interview since they were 
specifically talking about computers in the year 2001. He also 
invented/predicted the synchronous satellite being used for 
communications. I saw a picture of him at a Science Fiction 
Convention wearing a T-Shirt which read I invented the synchronous 
satellite and all I got was this T-Shirt to make this point.


Another comment had to do with the prediction being off in the time 
frame required. Note that he was talking not about when it would 
occur but only that it would have occurred by 2001. Note his 
prediction about the impact of the Internet. BTW: He as using this 
technology for the 1968 movie's screen play sending the files back 
and forth to Stanley Kubrick.


As to short sighted predictions, I was at a Science Fiction 
convention years ago at which Isaac Asimov gave a talk about how 
accurate authors were in predicting the future where he said that 
they were too narrow on their predictions. He used the movie 
Destination Moon as an example. In the movie the trip was done by 
private industry not the government and noted that their proof that 
they were on the moon was to take a snap shot of the crew with Earth 
over their shoulders. The reality that when man actually landed on 
the moon, everyone on Earth would be watching them in real time was 
too fantastic a prediction to make and have it believed.


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Re: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube

2013-12-28 Thread Warren Brown
AMAZING
 


 From: Ed Gould edgould1...@comcast.net
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2013 7:08 PM
Subject: ▶ One day, a computer will fit on a desk (1974) - YouTube
  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTdWQAKzESA


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