Re: SYSOUT FORMS question
IBM ships a default separator for the External Writer. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 5:01 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SYSOUT FORMS question On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 20:46:40 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >It's the responsibility of the separator to start each DS on a front side; >there is not and should not be anything that device specific on SPOOL. > Nonetheless, when the printer was directly attached to MVS each data set started on a front side; no operator intervention needed. There must have been a CCW for that. I once encountered a (non-IBM ) site that had a carriage control tape with a punch for "top of odd-numbered page". >From: Paul Gilmartin >Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 4:25 PM > >IIRC, long ago we had an MVS guest directing SYSOUTs to a >virtual printer. But all SYSOUTs from any single job would appear >inconveniently in a single VM spool file. I could circumvent that >by specifying a different FORMS on each SYSOUT data set. >The value of the FORMS option seemed irrelevant. > >I wanted separate spool files so each data set printed would >begin on the front of a leaf. Otherwise it was likely to start >on the verso side of thee previous data set. Evidently the CCW >that started a new leaf was not reflected in the VM spool. --gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SYSOUT FORMS question
On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 20:46:40 +, Seymour J Metz wrote: >It's the responsibility of the separator to start each DS on a front side; >there is not and should not be anything that device specific on SPOOL. > Nonetheless, when the printer was directly attached to MVS each data set started on a front side; no operator intervention needed. There must have been a CCW for that. I once encountered a (non-IBM ) site that had a carriage control tape with a punch for "top of odd-numbered page". >From: Paul Gilmartin >Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 4:25 PM > >IIRC, long ago we had an MVS guest directing SYSOUTs to a >virtual printer. But all SYSOUTs from any single job would appear >inconveniently in a single VM spool file. I could circumvent that >by specifying a different FORMS on each SYSOUT data set. >The value of the FORMS option seemed irrelevant. > >I wanted separate spool files so each data set printed would >begin on the front of a leaf. Otherwise it was likely to start >on the verso side of thee previous data set. Evidently the CCW >that started a new leaf was not reflected in the VM spool. --gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SYSOUT FORMS question
There are several setup parameters, and there ae command to control how the JES deals with them. There is also a difference in the handling of physical forms versus forms overlays. Which JES, which printer and which selection criteria are you thinking of? In general, the names of e.g., forms, UCS, are arbitrary, but IBM ships some predefined members. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Frank Swarbrick [frank.swarbr...@outlook.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 2:44 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: SYSOUT FORMS question It's been quite a few years since we had mainframe attached printers, and I'm trying to recall what the FORMS SYSOUT parameter is used for. If I recall correctly, if a job going to a printer had a SYSOUT FORMS value that was different than the last job that was printed on that printer, the operator would be notified, they would change the forms for that printer to the correct one and then respond to the prompt. Is that correct? And does the FORMS value have any specific meaning? Or is it up to the shop to know which FORMS value is for which physical form type? More specifically, the FORMS value just a "free form" string of characters, or is it "configured" somewhere? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SYSOUT FORMS question
It's the responsibility of the separator to start each DS on a front side; there is not and should not be anything that device specific on SPOOL. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Paul Gilmartin [000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 4:25 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: SYSOUT FORMS question On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 18:44:19 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: >It's been quite a few years since we had mainframe attached printers, and I'm >trying to recall what the FORMS SYSOUT parameter is used for. I... > IIRC, long ago we had an MVS guest directing SYSOUTs to a virtual printer. But all SYSOUTs from any single job would appear inconveniently in a single VM spool file. I could circumvent that by specifying a different FORMS on each SYSOUT data set. The value of the FORMS option seemed irrelevant. I wanted separate spool files so each data set printed would begin on the front of a leaf. Otherwise it was likely to start on the verso side of thee previous data set. Evidently the CCW that started a new leaf was not reflected in the VM spool. BTW, is there any defined mapping from CHARS to CCSID? Or a way to access the CCSID option on the DD statement from SDSF? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SYSOUT FORMS question
From my personal experience (dating back to 1977-1980), both the SYSOUT-related sub-parameters CLASS and FORM (possibly also WRITER-program, and often DEST) provided a "gate" so that a queued-SYSOUT could be directed to a printer that was configured / set to the appropriate data-values via JES commands -- and then the gate opened for sending the output. And so also there were one or more printers set to process some class / form STD combination, for the "nothing special" condition printing. And these days, additional parameters are used to influence how a print-subsystem is to process "image" content, possibly to superimpose a form or overlay (my lame interpretation -- sorry !!) Scott Barry SBBTech LLC On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 18:44:19 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: >It's been quite a few years since we had mainframe attached printers, and I'm >trying to recall what the FORMS SYSOUT parameter is used for. If I recall >correctly, if a job going to a printer had a SYSOUT FORMS value that was >different than the last job that was printed on that printer, the operator >would be notified, they would change the forms for that printer to the correct >one and then respond to the prompt. Is that correct? And does the FORMS >value have any specific meaning? Or is it up to the shop to know which FORMS >value is for which physical form type? More specifically, the FORMS value >just a "free form" string of characters, or is it "configured" somewhere? > >-- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SYSOUT FORMS question
On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 18:44:19 +, Frank Swarbrick wrote: >It's been quite a few years since we had mainframe attached printers, and I'm >trying to recall what the FORMS SYSOUT parameter is used for. I... > IIRC, long ago we had an MVS guest directing SYSOUTs to a virtual printer. But all SYSOUTs from any single job would appear inconveniently in a single VM spool file. I could circumvent that by specifying a different FORMS on each SYSOUT data set. The value of the FORMS option seemed irrelevant. I wanted separate spool files so each data set printed would begin on the front of a leaf. Otherwise it was likely to start on the verso side of thee previous data set. Evidently the CCW that started a new leaf was not reflected in the VM spool. BTW, is there any defined mapping from CHARS to CCSID? Or a way to access the CCSID option on the DD statement from SDSF? -- gil -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SYSOUT FORMS question
40+ years ago, I worked in the print room for a GM subsidiary. We printed using mainframe connected printers. Probably 80% green bar paper, 1-5 copies that went through the decolator. (2-5) But, we also printed checks & special forms that required setting up the printers for each form. If I remember correctly, it was $tprt1,forms=checks but also included additional parms. ——— Biden successfully extracted over 120k and counting from Afghanistan. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Wednesday, September 15, 2021, 2:44 PM, Frank Swarbrick wrote: It's been quite a few years since we had mainframe attached printers, and I'm trying to recall what the FORMS SYSOUT parameter is used for. If I recall correctly, if a job going to a printer had a SYSOUT FORMS value that was different than the last job that was printed on that printer, the operator would be notified, they would change the forms for that printer to the correct one and then respond to the prompt. Is that correct? And does the FORMS value have any specific meaning? Or is it up to the shop to know which FORMS value is for which physical form type? More specifically, the FORMS value just a "free form" string of characters, or is it "configured" somewhere? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: SYSOUT FORMS question
IIRC if the printer is set with the last form no prompt to load the form, this goes back to old 32xx printers, if the output is for a different form it allows the print operator to load the new form, then the operator issues the $SPRTx command the form name can be anything, client specific, or a standard set of forms like 3 bar... On 9/15/2021 1:44 PM, Frank Swarbrick wrote: It's been quite a few years since we had mainframe attached printers, and I'm trying to recall what the FORMS SYSOUT parameter is used for. If I recall correctly, if a job going to a printer had a SYSOUT FORMS value that was different than the last job that was printed on that printer, the operator would be notified, they would change the forms for that printer to the correct one and then respond to the prompt. Is that correct? And does the FORMS value have any specific meaning? Or is it up to the shop to know which FORMS value is for which physical form type? More specifically, the FORMS value just a "free form" string of characters, or is it "configured" somewhere? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- /I am not bound to win, but I am bound to be true. I am not bound to succeed, but I am bound to live by the light that I have. I must stand with anybody that stands right, and stand with him while he is right, and part with him when he goes wrong. *Abraham Lincoln*/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
SYSOUT FORMS question
It's been quite a few years since we had mainframe attached printers, and I'm trying to recall what the FORMS SYSOUT parameter is used for. If I recall correctly, if a job going to a printer had a SYSOUT FORMS value that was different than the last job that was printed on that printer, the operator would be notified, they would change the forms for that printer to the correct one and then respond to the prompt. Is that correct? And does the FORMS value have any specific meaning? Or is it up to the shop to know which FORMS value is for which physical form type? More specifically, the FORMS value just a "free form" string of characters, or is it "configured" somewhere? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
