Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-21 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Tue, 21 Aug 2018 15:29:47 +, Seymour J Metz wrote:

>MVS-OE ha a more restricted scope than IBM-MAIN. You might have a better 
>chance of your message being seen by a SME if you post it to a more specific 
>list. On the flip side, you get more eyeballs on a list of broader scope. They 
>are both useful.
>
So, cross-post to both?

>The same applies to other topics: ISPF, JES2, RACF, REXX and TSO are all 
>relevant in IBM-MAIN, 

-- gil

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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-21 Thread Seymour J Metz 
MVS-OE ha a more restricted scope than IBM-MAIN. You might have a better chance 
of your message being seen by a SME if you post it to a more specific list. On 
the flip side, you get more eyeballs on a list of broader scope. They are both 
useful.

The same applies to other topics: ISPF, JES2, RACF, REXX and TSO are all 
relevant in IBM-MAIN, 


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Charles Mills 
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 11:26 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

"The archives" are partitioned inconveniently now. MVS-OE is an example all by 
itself. How is a z/OS UNIX ("MVS-OE") problem different from a mainframe 
("IBM-MAIN") problem? And aren't the IBM-MAIN archives themselves partitioned 
into "old" and "new"?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin

>
Would this partition the archives inconveniently  This week I searched
successfully for a 15-year old article in MVS-OE.  Would I lose this
capability?

-- gil

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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-19 Thread Seymour J Metz 
MVS-OE is more targeted than IBM-MAIN. A z/OS Unix question could legitimately 
be posted in either.  You may find some SMEs that read only the specialized 
groups.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Charles Mills 
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 11:26 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Subject: Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

"The archives" are partitioned inconveniently now. MVS-OE is an example all by 
itself. How is a z/OS UNIX ("MVS-OE") problem different from a mainframe 
("IBM-MAIN") problem? And aren't the IBM-MAIN archives themselves partitioned 
into "old" and "new"?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin

>
Would this partition the archives inconveniently  This week I searched
successfully for a 15-year old article in MVS-OE.  Would I lose this
capability?

-- gil

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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-19 Thread Jesse 1 Robinson 
Non-technical clarification. On Friday Harry became SHARE's Immediate Past 
President. Pres is now Justin Bastin. Long live the Pres!

.
.
J.O.Skip Robinson
Southern California Edison Company
Electric Dragon Team Paddler 
SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
323-715-0595 Mobile
626-543-6132 Office ⇐=== NEW
robin...@sce.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Edward Finnell
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2018 11:18 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: (External):Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

I guess eventually we'll all be 'googlized' and tracked. The partitioning is by 
server locale. Harry Williams at Marist saw the need to separate Mainframe 
topics into more specialized lists early on. He fired up MVS-OE then DOMino and 
a few others.(He's now SHARE pres). Other sites host topics they hold 'near and 
dear'-RACF, DB/2, IMS, CICS.
 
Darren recommend splitting ibm-main into old and new for performance reasons. 
The old archives are from Jun 86(start date) to 2003 and require a separate 
sign-up. The working ibm-main is from 2004 forward.  


In a message dated 8/19/2018 10:26:56 AM Central Standard Time, 
charl...@mcn.org writes:

 
How is a z/OS UNIX ("MVS-OE") problem different from a mainframe ("IBM-MAIN") 
problem? And aren't the IBM-MAIN archives themselves partitioned into "old" and 
"new"?


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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-19 Thread Edward Finnell 
I guess eventually we'll all be 'googlized' and tracked. The partitioning is by 
server locale. Harry Williams at Marist saw the need to separate Mainframe 
topics into more specialized lists early on. He fired up MVS-OE then DOMino and 
a few others.(He's now SHARE pres). Other sites host topics they hold 'near and 
dear'-RACF, DB/2, IMS, CICS.
 
Darren recommend splitting ibm-main into old and new for performance reasons. 
The old archives are from Jun 86(start date) to 2003 and require a separate 
sign-up. The working ibm-main is from 2004 forward.  


In a message dated 8/19/2018 10:26:56 AM Central Standard Time, 
charl...@mcn.org writes:

 
How is a z/OS UNIX ("MVS-OE") problem different from a mainframe ("IBM-MAIN") 
problem? And aren't the IBM-MAIN archives themselves partitioned into "old" and 
"new"?

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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-19 Thread Charles Mills 
"The archives" are partitioned inconveniently now. MVS-OE is an example all by 
itself. How is a z/OS UNIX ("MVS-OE") problem different from a mainframe 
("IBM-MAIN") problem? And aren't the IBM-MAIN archives themselves partitioned 
into "old" and "new"?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin

> 
Would this partition the archives inconveniently  This week I searched
successfully for a 15-year old article in MVS-OE.  Would I lose this
capability?

-- gil

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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-18 Thread Paul Gilmartin 
On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 12:10:25 -0500, Charles Mills wrote:

>Minor correction: it was not in the IBM closed door on Sunday but rather in
>the SHARE volunteer orientation meeting on Sunday.
>https://www.share.org/p/do/sd/sid=15638=1=0 (You may need a SHARE
>ID to view.)
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Charles Mills
>Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 11:28 AM
>
>I use https://stackoverflow.com/. I really like it. Check out the
>programming questions there (NONE of them mainframe-specific).
>
>The proposed mainframe Web-based discussion list is here:
>http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes
> 
Would this partition the archives inconveniently  This week I searched
successfully for a 15-year old article in MVS-OE.  Would I lose this
capability?

-- gil

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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-18 Thread Steve Smith 
All depends on what you like.  At the risk of exposing myself too much, 
I'm on SuperUser, Aviation, Travel, and English Language & Usage 
(although that one mainly just makes me mad).


There are various languages, new ones for LEGO, Chess, and Poker... ad 
infinitum.  StackOverflow is the granddaddy of them all; it was kicked 
off by Joel Spolsky & partner a few years ago.  If you don't know who 
Joel is, you should.  He's the smartest guy in computing since Fred Brooks.


sas


On 8/18/2018 15:58, Ed Jaffe wrote:

On 8/18/2018 12:51 PM, Clark Morris wrote:

I have never participated in any of the stack forums.  I am a long
retired MVS systems programmer and COBOL application programmer
analyst.  Which slack forums should I join?  Until I get a stack
reputation is my presence worthwhile for supporting the mainframe?


Stack overflow looks to be the "catch all" for programmers. That's the 
one I registered for...




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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-18 Thread Steve Smith 
It is great to see interest in the StackExchange Mainframe site again. I 
don't totally buy in to all the StackExchange rules & procedures*, but I 
do grant that some smart people have thought about and tried quite a few 
things to try and get it right.  That said, the current status of 
"Mainframes" is something like limbo, where no technical activity is 
happening (and so much opportunity lost).  This is the so-called 
"commitment" stage, well-described by someone else.  I hate this stage.


But as soon as it qualifies (again, described well in other posts), we 
can start using it, and some of us might even like it.


There are a couple of things to note though: 1. It isn't a discussion 
group; StackExchange is Q site, for getting answers to questions, and 
solutions to problems. While IBM-MAIN certainly does that now, the 
infrastructure of S/E should help get better answers.  2. Anything that 
doesn't meet S/E criteria could and should remain with IBM-MAIN, and 
there's no law against some cross-over either.


Anyway, I second all the advice and encouragement to get on the 
"committer" list.


sas

* Some "rules" are routinely and flagrantly ignored (particularly the 
ban on answers in comments).


On 8/18/2018 13:13, Ed Jaffe wrote:

On 8/18/2018 9:27 AM, Charles Mills wrote:

The proposed mainframe Web-based discussion list is here:
http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes


I just committed to this proposal...



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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-18 Thread Ed Jaffe 

On 8/18/2018 12:51 PM, Clark Morris wrote:

I have never participated in any of the stack forums.  I am a long
retired MVS systems programmer and COBOL application programmer
analyst.  Which slack forums should I join?  Until I get a stack
reputation is my presence worthwhile for supporting the mainframe?


Stack overflow looks to be the "catch all" for programmers. That's the 
one I registered for...


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Edward E. Jaffe
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El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/


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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-18 Thread Clark Morris 
[Default] On 18 Aug 2018 09:27:50 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main
charl...@mcn.org (Charles Mills) wrote:

>I know this has come up here before. It also came up at the IBM closed
>session at SHARE. I confess I did not fully understand it before and I
>promised I would write a follow-up on IBM-MAIN.
>
>Yes, IBM-MAIN is wonderful but it has some shortcomings, such as topic
>drift, repeat questions, and a somewhat difficult search interface. It is
>also not the way the Gen-Xers do things, and without Gen-Xers, the mainframe
>is going to die.
>
>I use https://stackoverflow.com/. I really like it. Check out the
>programming questions there (NONE of them mainframe-specific).
>
>The proposed mainframe Web-based discussion list is here:
>http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes 
>
>Given the different look and feel, I thought stackexchange was a
>"competitor" or "clone" of stackoverflow and kind of wrote off the earlier
>discussion here. But nay, it is the "parent" or something like that.
>https://stackexchange.com/sites 
>
>Here is the deal. In order for the mainframe group to become real, they need
>people to "commit" to it. Here is what commitment means: "I commit to
>participate actively in Mainframes for at least three months, especially
>during the private beta, and to ask or answer at least ten questions."
>

I have never participated in any of the stack forums.  I am a long
retired MVS systems programmer and COBOL application programmer
analyst.  Which slack forums should I join?  Until I get a stack
reputation is my presence worthwhile for supporting the mainframe?

Clark Morris

>Your "commitment" carries much more weight if you have a reputation score of
>200 or above on any other stackx site. You get points by answering
>questions, especially if your answers are up-voted by others. I had not paid
>much attention to that on stackoverflow so I have a score of only 103. I
>have registered now on stackoverflow to be notified of mainframe questions
>so hopefully I can answer some questions and improve my reputation score.
>
>If you have a reputation score of more than 200 on any stackx site you
>can really help by committing AND making sure you use the same userid on all
>stackx sites so that the mainframe group is "aware" of your reputation.
>
>I was unclear on all of this. Hope this helps. If this is old news to you,
>please just hit delete.
>
>But please consider committing to the mainframe site, for your benefit and
>for the benefit of the platform.
>http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes 
>
>Charles Mills
>
>--
>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN

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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-18 Thread Ed Jaffe 

On 8/18/2018 10:10 AM, Charles Mills wrote:

Minor correction: it was not in the IBM closed door on Sunday but rather in
the SHARE volunteer orientation meeting on Sunday.
https://www.share.org/p/do/sd/sid=15638=1=0 (You may need a SHARE
ID to view.)


Also in the MVS Program Opening Monday morning at 10AM.

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El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/


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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-18 Thread Matt Hogstrom 
A point of clarification on commitment.  There are three levels a new group 
mush pass for a new group to be formed.  Here is a breakdown on where we are at 
as of today:

267/200 committers in total 
  100%
40/100   committers with 200+ rep on any other site 
 40%
commitment score, based on committers' activity on all other sites and how old 
the commitment is 94%

The critical element is the middle one, committers with 200+ rep.  I was very 
active advocating for the site and we successfully rallied other people that 
were interested (thus the 267 commitments as of today).  Where the proposal 
falls short is in the people with rep.  I was one of the enthusiastic but under 
repped folks.  It took me about a month of participating on the site looking 
for ways to help   This measure is intended to show a persons commitment to 
interacting, answering and asking questions and those activities generate 
reputation.  Its not hard, but it requires more than simply registering and 
clicking a button.  

I also support this site because this is where millennials come to ask 
questions and quite honestly its a place where Google can reach answers on the 
mainframe.  In a real way, its an ability for us to share and archive our 
mainframe knowledge and expertise.

I will offer a bit of advise.  Pick a venue.  Stackoverflow is primarily for 
programming questions (on all platforms including Z).  Superuser.com 
 is for system administration issues like how do I 
configure this, change this, implement APF, etc.  I actively participate in 
both forums and have earned 200+ rep in both (you only need one).  

Also note, its 200+ rep in ANY community.  So, if there is another area of 
interest for you invest your time there to build rep.

This is a great opportunity for us old timers to share, archive and seed the 
next generation with what we’ve learned because if we don’t share it, it stays 
in our heads and is eventually lost forever.  This is a way to preserve the 
experience and knowledge.


Matt Hogstrom
m...@hogstrom.org

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom

> On Aug 18, 2018, at 12:27 PM, Charles Mills  wrote:
> 
> I know this has come up here before. It also came up at the IBM closed
> session at SHARE. I confess I did not fully understand it before and I
> promised I would write a follow-up on IBM-MAIN.
> 
> Yes, IBM-MAIN is wonderful but it has some shortcomings, such as topic
> drift, repeat questions, and a somewhat difficult search interface. It is
> also not the way the Gen-Xers do things, and without Gen-Xers, the mainframe
> is going to die.
> 
> I use https://stackoverflow.com/. I really like it. Check out the
> programming questions there (NONE of them mainframe-specific).
> 
> The proposed mainframe Web-based discussion list is here:
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes 
> 
> Given the different look and feel, I thought stackexchange was a
> "competitor" or "clone" of stackoverflow and kind of wrote off the earlier
> discussion here. But nay, it is the "parent" or something like that.
> https://stackexchange.com/sites 
> 
> Here is the deal. In order for the mainframe group to become real, they need
> people to "commit" to it. Here is what commitment means: "I commit to
> participate actively in Mainframes for at least three months, especially
> during the private beta, and to ask or answer at least ten questions."
> 
> Your "commitment" carries much more weight if you have a reputation score of
> 200 or above on any other stackx site. You get points by answering
> questions, especially if your answers are up-voted by others. I had not paid
> much attention to that on stackoverflow so I have a score of only 103. I
> have registered now on stackoverflow to be notified of mainframe questions
> so hopefully I can answer some questions and improve my reputation score.
> 
> If you have a reputation score of more than 200 on any stackx site you
> can really help by committing AND making sure you use the same userid on all
> stackx sites so that the mainframe group is "aware" of your reputation.
> 
> I was unclear on all of this. Hope this helps. If this is old news to you,
> please just hit delete.
> 
> But please consider committing to the mainframe site, for your benefit and
> for the benefit of the platform.
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes 
> 
> Charles Mills
> 
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN


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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-18 Thread Ed Jaffe 

On 8/18/2018 9:27 AM, Charles Mills wrote:

The proposed mainframe Web-based discussion list is here:
http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes


I just committed to this proposal...

--
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Edward E. Jaffe
831 Parkview Drive North
El Segundo, CA 90245
https://www.phoenixsoftware.com/


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Re: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-18 Thread Charles Mills 
Minor correction: it was not in the IBM closed door on Sunday but rather in
the SHARE volunteer orientation meeting on Sunday.
https://www.share.org/p/do/sd/sid=15638=1=0 (You may need a SHARE
ID to view.)

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Charles Mills
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2018 11:28 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

I know this has come up here before. It also came up at the IBM closed
session at SHARE. I confess I did not fully understand it before and I
promised I would write a follow-up on IBM-MAIN.

Yes, IBM-MAIN is wonderful but it has some shortcomings, such as topic
drift, repeat questions, and a somewhat difficult search interface. It is
also not the way the Gen-Xers do things, and without Gen-Xers, the mainframe
is going to die.

I use https://stackoverflow.com/. I really like it. Check out the
programming questions there (NONE of them mainframe-specific).

The proposed mainframe Web-based discussion list is here:
http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes 

Given the different look and feel, I thought stackexchange was a
"competitor" or "clone" of stackoverflow and kind of wrote off the earlier
discussion here. But nay, it is the "parent" or something like that.
https://stackexchange.com/sites 

Here is the deal. In order for the mainframe group to become real, they need
people to "commit" to it. Here is what commitment means: "I commit to
participate actively in Mainframes for at least three months, especially
during the private beta, and to ask or answer at least ten questions."

Your "commitment" carries much more weight if you have a reputation score of
200 or above on any other stackx site. You get points by answering
questions, especially if your answers are up-voted by others. I had not paid
much attention to that on stackoverflow so I have a score of only 103. I
have registered now on stackoverflow to be notified of mainframe questions
so hopefully I can answer some questions and improve my reputation score.

If you have a reputation score of more than 200 on any stackx site you
can really help by committing AND making sure you use the same userid on all
stackx sites so that the mainframe group is "aware" of your reputation.

I was unclear on all of this. Hope this helps. If this is old news to you,
please just hit delete.

But please consider committing to the mainframe site, for your benefit and
for the benefit of the platform.
http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes 

Charles Mills

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StackExchange proposed mainframe discussion group

2018-08-18 Thread Charles Mills 
I know this has come up here before. It also came up at the IBM closed
session at SHARE. I confess I did not fully understand it before and I
promised I would write a follow-up on IBM-MAIN.

Yes, IBM-MAIN is wonderful but it has some shortcomings, such as topic
drift, repeat questions, and a somewhat difficult search interface. It is
also not the way the Gen-Xers do things, and without Gen-Xers, the mainframe
is going to die.

I use https://stackoverflow.com/. I really like it. Check out the
programming questions there (NONE of them mainframe-specific).

The proposed mainframe Web-based discussion list is here:
http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes 

Given the different look and feel, I thought stackexchange was a
"competitor" or "clone" of stackoverflow and kind of wrote off the earlier
discussion here. But nay, it is the "parent" or something like that.
https://stackexchange.com/sites 

Here is the deal. In order for the mainframe group to become real, they need
people to "commit" to it. Here is what commitment means: "I commit to
participate actively in Mainframes for at least three months, especially
during the private beta, and to ask or answer at least ten questions."

Your "commitment" carries much more weight if you have a reputation score of
200 or above on any other stackx site. You get points by answering
questions, especially if your answers are up-voted by others. I had not paid
much attention to that on stackoverflow so I have a score of only 103. I
have registered now on stackoverflow to be notified of mainframe questions
so hopefully I can answer some questions and improve my reputation score.

If you have a reputation score of more than 200 on any stackx site you
can really help by committing AND making sure you use the same userid on all
stackx sites so that the mainframe group is "aware" of your reputation.

I was unclear on all of this. Hope this helps. If this is old news to you,
please just hit delete.

But please consider committing to the mainframe site, for your benefit and
for the benefit of the platform.
http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes 

Charles Mills

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