Re: TECO (was Re: Has anyone)
> On 22 Aug 2023, at 10:10 pm, Gord Tomlin > wrote: > > On 2023-08-22 07:17 AM, David Crayford wrote: >> https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/ > > That looks like a gem! Oh yeah! It’s next level and it's an incremental parser. > > -- > > Regards, Gord Tomlin > Action Software International > (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) > Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 > Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/ > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TECO (was Re: Has anyone)
On 2023-08-22 07:17 AM, David Crayford wrote: https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/ That looks like a gem! -- Regards, Gord Tomlin Action Software International (a division of Mazda Computer Corporation) Tel: (905) 470-7113, Fax: (905) 470-6507 Support: https://actionsoftware.com/support/ -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TECO (was Re: Has anyone)
It's true that the original vi was based on TECO, but I believe that it was rewritten long since. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Hayim Sokolsky [hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 6:35 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: TECO (was Re: Has anyone) I remember using: 0lt$$ (the $$ is how escape-escape echoed.) More times than I can count... but then again, it's what you had to do when programming on a teletype. The ed and vi commands are actually based upon TECO. As far as I know vi is just a visual decedent of TECO. Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his) Director, Software Engineering Rocket Software, USA E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com W:RocketSoftware.com The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, positions or strategies of my employer. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Leonard D Woren Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 4:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: TECO (was Re: Has anyone) EXTERNAL EMAIL Bob Bridges wrote on 8/16/2023 8:23 AM: > Too many years ago; I don't remember. And it isn't as if > "unintuitive" is a fatal error in editors or any other application; > TECO (anyone ever use > that?) is a powerful editor - it was on the PDP platform as I recall - > with early automation features that I used extensively, and it was > full of odd uses for and '$' and some other characters, but it > did a good job - once I was used to it. But whatever this Unix editor > was, a half hour wasn't enough for me to learn much about it or get used to > anything. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* People who can't distinguish between "etymology" and "entomology" > bug me in ways I cannot put into words. -Tal Waterhouse */ IBM-MAIN relevancy: ISPF EDIT still rules! (But now I should learn regexps.) I never tried TECO, after reading "Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL" 40 years ago. Extract: Some of the concepts in these Xerox editors have been incorporated into editors running on more reasonably named operating systems -- EMACS and VI being two. The problem with these editors is that Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. TECO, to be precise. It has been observed that a TECO command sequence more closely resembles transmission line noise than readable text [4]. One of the more entertaining games to play with TECO is to type your name in as a command line and try to guess what it does. Just about any possible typing error while talking with TECO will probably destroy your program, or even worse -- introduce subtle and mysterious bugs in a once working subroutine. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323 Contact Customer Support: https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information of Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TECO (was Re: Has anyone)
On 22/8/2023 4:12 am, Leonard D Woren wrote: Bob Bridges wrote on 8/16/2023 8:23 AM: Too many years ago; I don't remember. And it isn't as if "unintuitive" is a fatal error in editors or any other application; TECO (anyone ever use that?) is a powerful editor - it was on the PDP platform as I recall - with early automation features that I used extensively, and it was full of odd uses for and '$' and some other characters, but it did a good job - once I was used to it. But whatever this Unix editor was, a half hour wasn't enough for me to learn much about it or get used to anything. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* People who can't distinguish between "etymology" and "entomology" bug me in ways I cannot put into words. -Tal Waterhouse */ IBM-MAIN relevancy: ISPF EDIT still rules! If the only tool you know is a hammer? (But now I should learn regexps.) I noticed that z/OS 3.1 has some ISPF enhancements for syntax highlighting. What would it take to write a tree-sitter edit macro for ISPF edit? ;- It shouldn't be too difficult to write grammars for mainframe languages https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/ I never tried TECO, after reading "Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL" 40 years ago. Extract: Some of the concepts in these Xerox editors have been incorporated into editors running on more reasonably named operating systems -- EMACS and VI being two. The problem with these editors is that Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. TECO, to be precise. It has been observed that a TECO command sequence more closely resembles transmission line noise than readable text [4]. One of the more entertaining games to play with TECO is to type your name in as a command line and try to guess what it does. Just about any possible typing error while talking with TECO will probably destroy your program, or even worse -- introduce subtle and mysterious bugs in a once working subroutine. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TECO (was Re: Has anyone)
Heh, heh, a decedent, really? So vi really is dead? --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Whatever you were looking for doesn't currently exist at this address. Unless you were looking for this error page, in which case: Congrats! You totally found it. -404 message */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Hayim Sokolsky Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 18:35 I remember using "0lt$$" (the $$ is how escape-escape echoed) more times than I can count... but then again, it's what you had to do when programming on a teletype. The ed and vi commands are actually based upon TECO. As far as I know vi is just a visual decedent of TECO. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Leonard D Woren Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 4:13 PM I never tried TECO, after reading "Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL" 40 years ago. Extract: It has been observed that a TECO command sequence more closely resembles transmission line noise than readable text. One of the more entertaining games to play with TECO is to type your name in as a command line and try to guess what it does -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TECO (was Re: Has anyone)
I remember using: 0lt$$ (the $$ is how escape-escape echoed.) More times than I can count... but then again, it's what you had to do when programming on a teletype. The ed and vi commands are actually based upon TECO. As far as I know vi is just a visual decedent of TECO. Hayim Sokolsky (he/him/his) Director, Software Engineering Rocket Software, USA E: hsokol...@rocketsoftware.com W:RocketSoftware.com The views I have expressed in this email are my own personal views, and are not endorsed or supported by, and do not necessarily express or reflect, the views, positions or strategies of my employer. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Leonard D Woren Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 4:13 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: TECO (was Re: Has anyone) EXTERNAL EMAIL Bob Bridges wrote on 8/16/2023 8:23 AM: > Too many years ago; I don't remember. And it isn't as if > "unintuitive" is a fatal error in editors or any other application; > TECO (anyone ever use > that?) is a powerful editor - it was on the PDP platform as I recall - > with early automation features that I used extensively, and it was > full of odd uses for and '$' and some other characters, but it > did a good job - once I was used to it. But whatever this Unix editor > was, a half hour wasn't enough for me to learn much about it or get used to > anything. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* People who can't distinguish between "etymology" and "entomology" > bug me in ways I cannot put into words. -Tal Waterhouse */ IBM-MAIN relevancy: ISPF EDIT still rules! (But now I should learn regexps.) I never tried TECO, after reading "Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL" 40 years ago. Extract: Some of the concepts in these Xerox editors have been incorporated into editors running on more reasonably named operating systems -- EMACS and VI being two. The problem with these editors is that Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. TECO, to be precise. It has been observed that a TECO command sequence more closely resembles transmission line noise than readable text [4]. One of the more entertaining games to play with TECO is to type your name in as a command line and try to guess what it does. Just about any possible typing error while talking with TECO will probably destroy your program, or even worse -- introduce subtle and mysterious bugs in a once working subroutine. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN Rocket Software, Inc. and subsidiaries ■ 77 Fourth Avenue, Waltham MA 02451 ■ Main Office Toll Free Number: +1 855.577.4323 Contact Customer Support: https://my.rocketsoftware.com/RocketCommunity/RCEmailSupport Unsubscribe from Marketing Messages/Manage Your Subscription Preferences - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/manage-your-email-preferences Privacy Policy - http://www.rocketsoftware.com/company/legal/privacy-policy This communication and any attachments may contain confidential information of Rocket Software, Inc. All unauthorized use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Rocket Software immediately and destroy all copies of this communication. Thank you. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: TECO (was Re: Has anyone)
LOL, yeah, I guess that's true. But I found it pretty powerful at the time, before full-screen editors were available to me. Actually I still think it was powerful. There are reasons to like WordPad, for instance (which I use extensively for low-level documentation), but when I want to do something complicated in the way of editing - not just lots of typing from scratch, but complex edits - well, nowadays I'm content with REXX but back then I would have enthused over TECO. In fact I ~did~ enthuse over it, without winning many converts as I recall. But yeah, the comment about transmission noise is pretty accurate. And yes, I should learn ISFP's regexps. I finally started using VBS's version a couple years ago, so I can no longer argue against the utility of regular expressions in general. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* God gives what He has, not what He has not; He gives the happiness that there is, not the happiness that is not. To be God — to be like God and to share His goodness in creaturely response — to be miserable — those are the only three alternatives. If we will not learn to eat the only food that the universe grows — the only food that any possible universe ever can grow — then we must starve eternally. -from "The Problem of Pain" by C S Lewis. */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Leonard D Woren Sent: Monday, August 21, 2023 16:13 IBM-MAIN relevancy: ISPF EDIT still rules! (But now I should learn regexps.) I never tried TECO, after reading "Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL" 40 years ago. Extract: It has been observed that a TECO command sequence more closely resembles transmission line noise than readable text. One of the more entertaining games to play with TECO is to type your name in as a command line and try to guess what it does --- Bob Bridges wrote on 8/16/2023 8:23 AM: > ...TECO (anyone ever use that?) is a powerful editor - it was on the PDP > platform as > I recall - with early automation features that I used extensively, and it was > full > of odd uses for and '$' and some other characters, but it did a good > job - > once I was used to it. But whatever this Unix editor was, a half hour wasn't > enough > for me to learn much about it or get used to anything. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
TECO (was Re: Has anyone)
Bob Bridges wrote on 8/16/2023 8:23 AM: Too many years ago; I don't remember. And it isn't as if "unintuitive" is a fatal error in editors or any other application; TECO (anyone ever use that?) is a powerful editor - it was on the PDP platform as I recall - with early automation features that I used extensively, and it was full of odd uses for and '$' and some other characters, but it did a good job - once I was used to it. But whatever this Unix editor was, a half hour wasn't enough for me to learn much about it or get used to anything. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* People who can't distinguish between "etymology" and "entomology" bug me in ways I cannot put into words. -Tal Waterhouse */ IBM-MAIN relevancy: ISPF EDIT still rules! (But now I should learn regexps.) I never tried TECO, after reading "Real Programmers Don't Use PASCAL" 40 years ago. Extract: Some of the concepts in these Xerox editors have been incorporated into editors running on more reasonably named operating systems -- EMACS and VI being two. The problem with these editors is that Real Programmers consider "what you see is what you get" to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No the Real Programmer wants a "you asked for it, you got it" text editor -- complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. TECO, to be precise. It has been observed that a TECO command sequence more closely resembles transmission line noise than readable text [4]. One of the more entertaining games to play with TECO is to type your name in as a command line and try to guess what it does. Just about any possible typing error while talking with TECO will probably destroy your program, or even worse -- introduce subtle and mysterious bugs in a once working subroutine. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
