Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
OK. So I can run both and be OK. Thing is we're going from RSU 0702 to 0901. Someone told me the update can affect TCPIP and that sessions could be lost if doing 3270 via TCPIP.We're mostly a zLinux shop so I'm more concerned about the VSWITCH controllers getting knocked out by this. Am I safe from this? The IBM z/VM Operating System IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU wrote on 04/21/2009 12:46:15 PM: Neither service or put2prod are disruptive to the guests. It's the shutdown that will be :) Marcy This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Karl Kingston Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:33 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: [IBMVM] Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD We're about to apply some RSU's to our current 5.3 system.System has been running great without issues. Right now, I'd like to minimize the downtime for our users.Since we're running z/Linux with production servers. Is running SERVICE EXEC distruptive to the running system? I would think PUT2PROD would be. Can I run SERVICE to apply the service and then at a later time when we schedule an outage, I can run PUT2PROD and SHUTDOWN/re-IPL? Thanks
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
On Wednesday, 04/22/2009 at 07:35 EDT, Karl Kingston karlkings...@ongov.net wrote: Someone told me the update can affect TCPIP and that sessions could be lost if doing 3270 via TCPIP.We're mostly a zLinux shop so I'm more concerned about the VSWITCH controllers getting knocked out by this. Am I safe from this? Starting in z/VM 5.3, PUT2PROD no longer recycles the TCP/IP stacks or VSWITCH controllers. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
Thanks, Alan. I see a need for an RCF except for the fact that the most complete documentation is in the GROUP help screens and not in any document. After I get out of my meetings today, I'll submit one if I have the time. If not today, then tomorrow. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:05 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD On Tuesday, 04/21/2009 at 05:30 EDT, Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.com wrote: Are you saying that in a single user environment, it is unnecessary to even log the specified recovery machine on? If not, is it even necessary to specify a real id? That is correct. There is no recovery id. When each user IPLs the single-user GCS, they are not joined into a group. 1. For a single user system, you must specify an arbitrary recovery machine userid simply for purposes of having it included in the NSS. (Why can it not be blanks in this instance?) Just specify it as * (like the DUMPVM= default). But it doesn't really matter. In single-user mode, the recovery and dump machine values are overridden at IPL time anyway. 2. That userid does not have to exist because it will never be logged on. (Does anything bad happen if it is defined and someone logs it on and IPLs CMS? Probably not, but it most likely would be a bad idea for it to be allowed to IPL GCS.) See above. A single-user mode GCS is automatically RESTRICT=NO, so anyone can IPL it. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
We're about to apply some RSU's to our current 5.3 system.System has been running great without issues. Right now, I'd like to minimize the downtime for our users.Since we're running z/Linux with production servers. Is running SERVICE EXEC distruptive to the running system? I would think PUT2PROD would be. Can I run SERVICE to apply the service and then at a later time when we schedule an outage, I can run PUT2PROD and SHUTDOWN/re-IPL? Thanks
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
Neither service or put2prod are disruptive to the guests. It's the shutdown that will be :) Marcy This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, or take any action based on this message or any information herein. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation. -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Karl Kingston Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:33 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: [IBMVM] Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD We're about to apply some RSU's to our current 5.3 system.System has been running great without issues. Right now, I'd like to minimize the downtime for our users.Since we're running z/Linux with production servers. Is running SERVICE EXEC distruptive to the running system? I would think PUT2PROD would be. Can I run SERVICE to apply the service and then at a later time when we schedule an outage, I can run PUT2PROD and SHUTDOWN/re-IPL? Thanks
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
Karl Kingston wrote: We're about to apply some RSU's to our current 5.3 system.System has been running great without issues. Right now, I'd like to minimize the downtime for our users.Since we're running z/Linux with production servers. Is running SERVICE EXEC distruptive to the running system? I would think PUT2PROD would be. Can I run SERVICE to apply the service and then at a later time when we schedule an outage, I can run PUT2PROD and SHUTDOWN/re-IPL? Thanks Run SERVICE at any time. When you are ready run PUT2PROD and re-IPL. Unlike some systems PUT2PROD will not force a re-IPL but you should do one soon after it runs if there were updates to the CP NUCLEUS on the RSU. -- Stephen Frazier Information Technology Unit Oklahoma Department of Corrections 3400 Martin Luther King Oklahoma City, Ok, 73111-4298 Tel.: (405) 425-2549 Fax: (405) 425-2554 Pager: (405) 690-1828 email: stevef%doc.state.ok.us
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
Updates to the CP nucleus would never require a reIPL in a short time: the CP nucleus resides in storage, storing a new one on MAINT CF1 doesn't harm at all. However, if there are updates to the CMS resident, many CMS users are at risk after PUT2PROD, you can restart them one by one or by a reIPL. For GCS, even SERVICE is a bit disruptive: the GCS saves system is replaced, what means an IPL GCS will fail untill the GCS recovery machine (hence all other GCS users) are restarted. Q NSS USERS GCS will reveal which of your users might be affected. Without SNA, RSCS is probably the only user. 2009/4/21 Stephen Frazier ste...@doc.state.ok.us Karl Kingston wrote: We're about to apply some RSU's to our current 5.3 system.System has been running great without issues. Right now, I'd like to minimize the downtime for our users.Since we're running z/Linux with production servers. Is running SERVICE EXEC distruptive to the running system? I would think PUT2PROD would be. Can I run SERVICE to apply the service and then at a later time when we schedule an outage, I can run PUT2PROD and SHUTDOWN/re-IPL? Thanks Run SERVICE at any time. When you are ready run PUT2PROD and re-IPL. Unlike some systems PUT2PROD will not force a re-IPL but you should do one soon after it runs if there were updates to the CP NUCLEUS on the RSU. -- Stephen Frazier Information Technology Unit Oklahoma Department of Corrections 3400 Martin Luther King Oklahoma City, Ok, 73111-4298 Tel.: (405) 425-2549 Fax: (405) 425-2554 Pager: (405) 690-1828 email: stevef%doc.state.ok.us -- Kris Buelens, IBM Belgium, VM customer support
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
On Tuesday, 04/21/2009 at 01:21 EDT, Kris Buelens kris.buel...@gmail.com wrote: For GCS, even SERVICE is a bit disruptive: the GCS saves system is replaced, what means an IPL GCS will fail untill the GCS recovery machine (hence all other GCS users) are restarted. Q NSS USERS GCS will reveal which of your users might be affected. Without SNA, RSCS is probably the only user. For non-SNA networks, I prefer to run RSCS in single-user (GROUP=NO) mode so that there is no recovery machine and it can be treated like a stand-alone CMS user. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
Where is this discussed? When I search the books on the RSCS shelf for GROUP=NO, all I get is a blank page. Neither do I get any hits when searching the z/VM Group Control System manual. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:30 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD On Tuesday, 04/21/2009 at 01:21 EDT, Kris Buelens kris.buel...@gmail.com wrote: For GCS, even SERVICE is a bit disruptive: the GCS saves system is replaced, what means an IPL GCS will fail untill the GCS recovery machine (hence all other GCS users) are restarted. Q NSS USERS GCS will reveal which of your users might be affected. Without SNA, RSCS is probably the only user. For non-SNA networks, I prefer to run RSCS in single-user (GROUP=NO) mode so that there is no recovery machine and it can be treated like a stand-alone CMS user. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
You need to build a special GCS for it. Try this in MAINT VMFSETUP ZVM GCS GROUP or maybe GROUP GCSRSCS Group presents panels to define GCS 2009/4/21 Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.com Where is this discussed? When I search the books on the RSCS shelf for GROUP=NO, all I get is a blank page. Neither do I get any hits when searching the z/VM Group Control System manual. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:30 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD On Tuesday, 04/21/2009 at 01:21 EDT, Kris Buelens kris.buel...@gmail.com wrote: For GCS, even SERVICE is a bit disruptive: the GCS saves system is replaced, what means an IPL GCS will fail untill the GCS recovery machine (hence all other GCS users) are restarted. Q NSS USERS GCS will reveal which of your users might be affected. Without SNA, RSCS is probably the only user. For non-SNA networks, I prefer to run RSCS in single-user (GROUP=NO) mode so that there is no recovery machine and it can be treated like a stand-alone CMS user. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- Kris Buelens, IBM Belgium, VM customer support
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
Rather than GROUP=NO, there is an entry for Single User Environment (YES or NO). Above that line, there is one that asks for RECOVERY MACHINE USERID (required) The note dealing with the single user entry reads: 5. Will the GCS system run in a single user environment? Enter YES to create a single user environment. Specify NO, to create a group environment with common shared storage. Applications that do not require group communications and that run without the use of shared common storage can run in a single system environment. These applications will run without the overhead of group initialization and multiple virtual machines. For example, a test environment requiring a single user and not group communications will be able to run without the overhead of group initialization and the multiple virtual machines. I take that, the multiple virtual machines, in the last two statements to mean other machines like VTAM, ACS and buddies, but does not include the recovery machine (which is, per the display, required). The note related to the recovery machine question states that the GROUP command does check the recovery machine userid for validity, but does not prevent you from saving an incorrect entry. What does that mean? You can put in something that would be acceptable as a userid, even though there is no such id in the directory, or it must be an existing id, even including one that is NOLOG? All of that begs the question, how do you accomplish running without the recovery machine? Do you simply enter an id and never log it on? I know that in multiple user mode, GCS refuses to come up in RSCS or any other machine in the group if the recovery machine is not already on. The documentation is perfectly clear (to the one who wrote it). Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Kris Buelens Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 12:03 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD You need to build a special GCS for it. Try this in MAINT VMFSETUP ZVM GCS GROUP or maybe GROUP GCSRSCS Group presents panels to define GCS 2009/4/21 Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.commailto:rsc...@visa.com Where is this discussed? When I search the books on the RSCS shelf for GROUP=NO, all I get is a blank page. Neither do I get any hits when searching the z/VM Group Control System manual. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDUmailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:30 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDUmailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD On Tuesday, 04/21/2009 at 01:21 EDT, Kris Buelens kris.buel...@gmail.commailto:kris.buel...@gmail.com wrote: For GCS, even SERVICE is a bit disruptive: the GCS saves system is replaced, what means an IPL GCS will fail untill the GCS recovery machine (hence all other GCS users) are restarted. Q NSS USERS GCS will reveal which of your users might be affected. Without SNA, RSCS is probably the only user. For non-SNA networks, I prefer to run RSCS in single-user (GROUP=NO) mode so that there is no recovery machine and it can be treated like a stand-alone CMS user. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- Kris Buelens, IBM Belgium, VM customer support
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
I'd say the recovery userid you specify will be ignored. In fact, in such a single user GCS userid you could run RSCS, VTAM, VSCS, and AVS together, they are all multitasking. An abend in one would cause the death of them all. That's -I guess- why the help mentions test environment. The GCS recovery machine is mainly meant to be able to cleanup the common storage gotten by a member when that dies. E.g. when VTAM starts, it tells the recovery machine to run program ITS when it would die, it would FREEMAIN the storage gotten by VTAM. In a single user GCS system there is no such problem of common storage that must be freed in case of abend. 2009/4/21 Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.com Rather than GROUP=NO, there is an entry for Single User Environment (YES or NO). Above that line, there is one that asks for RECOVERY MACHINE USERID (required) The note dealing with the single user entry reads: 5. Will the GCS system run in a single user environment? Enter YES to create a single user environment. Specify NO, to create a group environment with common shared storage. Applications that do not require group communications and that run without the use of shared common storage can run in a single system environment. These applications will run without the overhead of group initialization and multiple virtual machines. For example, a test environment requiring a single user and not group communications will be able to run without the overhead of group initialization and the multiple virtual machines. I take that, the multiple virtual machines, in the last two statements to mean other machines like VTAM, ACS and buddies, but does not include the recovery machine (which is, per the display, required). The note related to the recovery machine question states that the GROUP command does check the recovery machine userid for validity, but does not prevent you from saving an incorrect entry. What does that mean? You can put in something that would be acceptable as a userid, even though there is no such id in the directory, or it must be an existing id, even including one that is NOLOG? All of that begs the question, how do you accomplish running without the recovery machine? Do you simply enter an id and never log it on? I know that in multiple user mode, GCS refuses to come up in RSCS or any other machine in the group if the recovery machine is not already on. The documentation is perfectly clear (to the one who wrote it). Regards, Richard Schuh -- *From:* The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] *On Behalf Of *Kris Buelens *Sent:* Tuesday, April 21, 2009 12:03 PM *To:* IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU *Subject:* Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD You need to build a special GCS for it. Try this in MAINT VMFSETUP ZVM GCS GROUP or maybe GROUP GCSRSCS Group presents panels to define GCS 2009/4/21 Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.com Where is this discussed? When I search the books on the RSCS shelf for GROUP=NO, all I get is a blank page. Neither do I get any hits when searching the z/VM Group Control System manual. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:30 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD On Tuesday, 04/21/2009 at 01:21 EDT, Kris Buelens kris.buel...@gmail.com wrote: For GCS, even SERVICE is a bit disruptive: the GCS saves system is replaced, what means an IPL GCS will fail untill the GCS recovery machine (hence all other GCS users) are restarted. Q NSS USERS GCS will reveal which of your users might be affected. Without SNA, RSCS is probably the only user. For non-SNA networks, I prefer to run RSCS in single-user (GROUP=NO) mode so that there is no recovery machine and it can be treated like a stand-alone CMS user. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- Kris Buelens, IBM Belgium, VM customer support -- Kris Buelens, IBM Belgium, VM customer support
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
Are you saying that in a single user environment, it is unnecessary to even log the specified recovery machine on? If not, is it even necessary to specify a real id? It appears that what is being implied, but not stated in this thread, is: 1. For a single user system, you must specify an arbitrary recovery machine userid simply for purposes of having it included in the NSS. (Why can it not be blanks in this instance?) 2. That userid does not have to exist because it will never be logged on. (Does anything bad happen if it is defined and someone logs it on and IPLs CMS? Probably not, but it most likely would be a bad idea for it to be allowed to IPL GCS.) I have, over the years, frequently heard, Do not infer anything, especially when dealing with IBM systems. If it is not explicitly stated in the documentation, you cannot assume that it is so. Here, it appears that we must trust that our inferences match the intended implications. Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:ib...@listserv.uark.edu] On Behalf Of Kris Buelens Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 1:17 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD I'd say the recovery userid you specify will be ignored. In fact, in such a single user GCS userid you could run RSCS, VTAM, VSCS, and AVS together, they are all multitasking. An abend in one would cause the death of them all. That's -I guess- why the help mentions test environment. The GCS recovery machine is mainly meant to be able to cleanup the common storage gotten by a member when that dies. E.g. when VTAM starts, it tells the recovery machine to run program ITS when it would die, it would FREEMAIN the storage gotten by VTAM. In a single user GCS system there is no such problem of common storage that must be freed in case of abend. 2009/4/21 Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.commailto:rsc...@visa.com Rather than GROUP=NO, there is an entry for Single User Environment (YES or NO). Above that line, there is one that asks for RECOVERY MACHINE USERID (required) The note dealing with the single user entry reads: 5. Will the GCS system run in a single user environment? Enter YES to create a single user environment. Specify NO, to create a group environment with common shared storage. Applications that do not require group communications and that run without the use of shared common storage can run in a single system environment. These applications will run without the overhead of group initialization and multiple virtual machines. For example, a test environment requiring a single user and not group communications will be able to run without the overhead of group initialization and the multiple virtual machines. I take that, the multiple virtual machines, in the last two statements to mean other machines like VTAM, ACS and buddies, but does not include the recovery machine (which is, per the display, required). The note related to the recovery machine question states that the GROUP command does check the recovery machine userid for validity, but does not prevent you from saving an incorrect entry. What does that mean? You can put in something that would be acceptable as a userid, even though there is no such id in the directory, or it must be an existing id, even including one that is NOLOG? All of that begs the question, how do you accomplish running without the recovery machine? Do you simply enter an id and never log it on? I know that in multiple user mode, GCS refuses to come up in RSCS or any other machine in the group if the recovery machine is not already on. The documentation is perfectly clear (to the one who wrote it). Regards, Richard Schuh From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDUmailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On Behalf Of Kris Buelens Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 12:03 PM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDUmailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD You need to build a special GCS for it. Try this in MAINT VMFSETUP ZVM GCS GROUP or maybe GROUP GCSRSCS Group presents panels to define GCS 2009/4/21 Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.commailto:rsc...@visa.com Where is this discussed? When I search the books on the RSCS shelf for GROUP=NO, all I get is a blank page. Neither do I get any hits when searching the z/VM Group Control System manual. Regards, Richard Schuh -Original Message- From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDUmailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:30 AM To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDUmailto:IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU Subject: Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD On Tuesday, 04/21/2009 at 01:21 EDT, Kris Buelens kris.buel...@gmail.commailto:kris.buel...@gmail.com wrote: For GCS, even SERVICE is a bit disruptive: the GCS saves
Re: Question on SERVICE EXEC and PUT2PROD
On Tuesday, 04/21/2009 at 05:30 EDT, Schuh, Richard rsc...@visa.com wrote: Are you saying that in a single user environment, it is unnecessary to even log the specified recovery machine on? If not, is it even necessary to specify a real id? That is correct. There is no recovery id. When each user IPLs the single-user GCS, they are not joined into a group. 1. For a single user system, you must specify an arbitrary recovery machine userid simply for purposes of having it included in the NSS. (Why can it not be blanks in this instance?) Just specify it as * (like the DUMPVM= default). But it doesn't really matter. In single-user mode, the recovery and dump machine values are overridden at IPL time anyway. 2. That userid does not have to exist because it will never be logged on. (Does anything bad happen if it is defined and someone logs it on and IPLs CMS? Probably not, but it most likely would be a bad idea for it to be allowed to IPL GCS.) See above. A single-user mode GCS is automatically RESTRICT=NO, so anyone can IPL it. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott
