Re: Two Questions About VM

[Dave Wade]

>   
>   As already replied; DDR cannot restore to a 
> disk of
> another device type.  So if your input is on tape,
> you will need to find a system with that type of
> DASD.  I don't know by heart, but may DITTO is able
> to restore DDR tapes to another type of disk. 
>   

Hercules seesm to support 9345 devices, and will also
read from real tapes on SCSI so it would be possible
to do this under emulation, provided:-

1) You could find a SCSI drive that will read your
tapes, or get some one to copy the tapes to AWS format
files.

2) you could legally justify it under, say a disaster
recovery clause in an existing license, or have IBM
issue a limited license.

3) you have the minidisk layouts for the packs
concerned we have previously noted VM DASD do not have
VTOCS...



>   If however you have a running system with different
> types of DASD connected, you can use DFSMS COPY to
> copy CMS formatted minidisks from one disk type to
> another (even from CKD to FBA).  DFSMS comes free of
> charge with VM, but it is only installed when you
> explictely do it (DFSMS COPY is high speed, it used
> to be a lot faster than DDR).   If this is your
> case, contact me again, I have some execs to help
> you during such a migration. 
>   
>   P.S. 9345's were not FBA, but CKD

And they seem to be under 2 gbytes in size so should
not have any issues emulating.

>   -- 
>   Kris Buelens,
>   IBM Belgium, VM customer support 
> The first question are about DDR,
> Is possible do a DDR Backup from 9345 DASD, and
> restore this to a 9395 DASD ?
> 

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Re: Two Questions About VM

[David Boyes]

> > That was my reading too. AFAIK, the T/R cards in 3174s could only be
> > used by VTAM, because they required the SNA ucode in the 3174. You
> > needed a 3172/LCS to use T/R (or other technology) for TCPIP.
> The TR 3174 that I remember was VTAM only.  Not being channel
attached, it
> required a 37x5 with NCP, an OSA or 3172 with LSA, or the ICA in the
> 9370/9221 to drive it.

Those would have been the R model 3174s (R for remote). I was thinking
of the T/R feature card for the channel-attached L models (we had an 11L
with 1 coax card and 3 T/R cards -- nearly caused heart failure in that
poor 3174 trying to keep up with all that traffic).  Doesn't matter for
this purpose, though (you still needed the SNA ucode diskettes in the
3174 and VTAM to use them). 

If I remember, you genned such a beast as a 3705 with some weird model
number in VM. I faintly remember there being an Ethernet RPQ as well,
but I don't think too many people bought them -- they were short-lived
at best. We had AEA cards for one or two 3174s, too. 

(The 7171 was a FAR superior device, IMHO. There is a persistent rumor
that John Naman wrote a SLIP driver for a 7171 and/or Series/1 device,
but I can't seem to find any evidence of it...)

Re: Two Questions About VM

[Alan Altmark]

On Friday, 04/13/2007 at 07:10 AST, David Boyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > I wonder if the question is about used the token ring
> > card in the 3174 as an LCS device directly attached to
> > VM...
> 
> That was my reading too. AFAIK, the T/R cards in 3174s could only be
> used by VTAM, because they required the SNA ucode in the 3174. You
> needed a 3172/LCS to use T/R (or other technology) for TCPIP.

The TR 3174 that I remember was VTAM only.  Not being channel attached, it 
required a 37x5 with NCP, an OSA or 3172 with LSA, or the ICA in the 
9370/9221 to drive it.

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott

Re: Two Questions About VM

[Rich Smrcina]

And I thought he was marching because he just always heard one... :)

David Boyes wrote:


But, Alan marches on. He needs a band, really.



--
Rich Smrcina
VM Assist, Inc.
Phone: 414-491-6001
Ans Service:  360-715-2467
rich.smrcina at vmassist.com

Catch the WAVV!  http://www.wavv.org
WAVV 2007 - Green Bay, WI - May 18-22, 2007

Re: Two Questions About VM

[David Boyes]

> > On Wednesday, 04/11/2007 at 03:42 AST, David Boyes
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > Was a 3174 ever a supported device for TCPIP? I
> > don't think so, so
> > regardless,
> > > he's going to need a different device (OSA,
> > LCS/3172, something
> > else...).
> I wonder if the question is about used the token ring
> card in the 3174 as an LCS device directly attached to
> VM...

That was my reading too. AFAIK, the T/R cards in 3174s could only be
used by VTAM, because they required the SNA ucode in the 3174. You
needed a 3172/LCS to use T/R (or other technology) for TCPIP. 

But, Alan marches on. He needs a band, really.

Re: Two Questions About VM

[Dave Wade]

--- Alan Altmark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wednesday, 04/11/2007 at 03:42 AST, David Boyes
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > Was a 3174 ever a supported device for TCPIP? I
> don't think so, so 
> regardless, 
> > he's going to need a different device (OSA,
> LCS/3172, something 
> else...).
> 
> This conversation is getting confusing.  To recap:
> - If you have a channel attached non-SNA 3174, CP
> can drive it himself. No 
> VTAM required.
> - If you have some other 3174, you need VTAM to
> drive it.
> - If you need 3270 access to configure VM TCP/IP,
> but don't have a non-SNA 
> channel-attached 3174 or don't want one, you have
> two choices:
> (a) the integrated 3270 console on the HMC
> (b) the OSA-ICC
> 
> Alan Altmark
> z/VM Development
> IBM Endicott
> 

I wonder if the question is about used the token ring
card in the 3174 as an LCS device directly attached to
VM...


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Re: Two Questions About VM

[Sergio Lima]

VM's Friends.
   
  Thanks for all help on my question.
  I must say that I'm so glad for see a lot of questions on this list, but 
unfortunatelly here in my country, don't have more VM, and or VSE System for 
work, only Z/OS and only big banks.
  After years and years, working with VM/VSE, now I'm a CICS / Z/OS man, but 
never forget the past that was wonderfull .
   
  Best Regards
   
  Sergio Lima Costa
  System Consultant
  Sao Paulo - Brazil

Alan Altmark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escreveu:
  On Wednesday, 04/11/2007 at 03:42 AST, David Boyes 
wrote:
> Was a 3174 ever a supported device for TCPIP? I don't think so, so 
regardless, 
> he's going to need a different device (OSA, LCS/3172, something 
else...).

This conversation is getting confusing. To recap:
- If you have a channel attached non-SNA 3174, CP can drive it himself. No 
VTAM required.
- If you have some other 3174, you need VTAM to drive it.
- If you need 3270 access to configure VM TCP/IP, but don't have a non-SNA 
channel-attached 3174 or don't want one, you have two choices:
(a) the integrated 3270 console on the HMC
(b) the OSA-ICC

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott


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Re: Two Questions About VM

[Alan Altmark]

On Wednesday, 04/11/2007 at 03:42 AST, David Boyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Was a 3174 ever a supported device for TCPIP? I don't think so, so 
regardless, 
> he's going to need a different device (OSA, LCS/3172, something 
else...).

This conversation is getting confusing.  To recap:
- If you have a channel attached non-SNA 3174, CP can drive it himself. No 
VTAM required.
- If you have some other 3174, you need VTAM to drive it.
- If you need 3270 access to configure VM TCP/IP, but don't have a non-SNA 
channel-attached 3174 or don't want one, you have two choices:
(a) the integrated 3270 console on the HMC
(b) the OSA-ICC

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott

Re: Two Questions About VM

[David Boyes]

Was a 3174 ever a supported device for TCPIP? I don't think so, so regardless, 
he's going to need a different device (OSA, LCS/3172, something else...).



-Original Message-
From: "Stracka, James (GTI)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU" 
Sent: 4/11/07 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: Two Questions About VM

Kris,
 
Thanks for reminding me about the 3174L (Local) vs 3174 (SNA).  Was that a 
3174R or just plain 3174?
 
With the 3174L both TCP/IP and VTAM are not required as the are LOCAL terminals 
to VM.
 
Jim

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
Of Kris Buelens
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:43 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
    Subject: Re: Two Questions About VM


As already replied; DDR cannot restore to a disk of another device 
type.  So if your input is on tape, you will need to find a system with that 
type of DASD.  I don't know by heart, but may DITTO is able to restore DDR 
tapes to another type of disk. 

If however you have a running system with different types of DASD 
connected, you can use DFSMS COPY to copy CMS formatted minidisks from one disk 
type to another (even from CKD to FBA).  DFSMS comes free of charge with VM, 
but it is only installed when you explictely do it (DFSMS COPY is high speed, 
it used to be a lot faster than DDR).   If this is your case, contact me again, 
I have some execs to help you during such a migration. 

3174's came in two versions: a SNA one and a channel attached version.  
To use the channel attached version, no extra SW is required on VM, no TCP/IP, 
no VTAM either.  The SNA model requires VTAM.  If you got a modern CPU (like a 
z series) and a not too old z/VM, you can use the integrated 3270 console and 
install VM from the HMC (hardware console).  No need to search for any other 
3270-like device. 

P.S. 9345's were not FBA, but CKD
-- 
Kris Buelens,
IBM Belgium, VM customer support 


2007/4/11, Stracka, James (GTI) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: 

I can answer the second.  VTAM and TCP/IP are totally 
independent on VM.  TCP/IP does not use CSA in GCS as it does on OS/390 systems.
 
I am unfamiliar with a 9395.  If it is also an FBA device, you 
can restore block ranges but the entire DASD depends on the amount of blocks.  
You may go smaller to larger but not larger to smaller.


-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sergio Lima
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:12 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Two Questions About VM


Hi List,
 
I don't work with VM for a long time, but now, have a 
friend that ask some questions, and I don't remember very well, so, I need a 
help in this list.
The first question are about DDR,
 Is possible do a DDR Backup from 9345 DASD, and 
restore this to a 9395 DASD ?
Another question is if need install TCP/IP under VM, 
using a 3174 device, is necessary have also VTAM installed under VM.
This TCP/IP will be used only for Telnet.
 
Thanks in advance
 
Sergio Lima Costa

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Re: Two Questions About VM

[Alan Altmark]

On Wednesday, 04/11/2007 at 03:04 AST, August Carideo 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on a new CPU which has not BUS/TAG you need to make sure you have a 
ESCON
> attached 3174

If you have a new CPU you can use either the integrated 3270 console on 
the HMC or the OSA-ICC (TN3270E offload).

Alan Altmark
z/VM Development
IBM Endicott

Re: Two Questions About VM

[August Carideo]

3174L has nothing to do with whether it is SNA or not, its how you config
it
also 3174R is remote and is not channel attached
on a new CPU which has not BUS/TAG you need to make sure you have a ESCON
attached 3174




   
 "Stracka, James   
 (GTI)"
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]  To
 .com> IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU 
 Sent by: The IBM   cc
 z/VM Operating
 SystemSubject
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]     Re: Two Questions About VM  
 ARK.EDU>  
   
   
 04/11/2007 02:55  
 PM
   
   
 Please respond to 
   The IBM z/VM
 Operating System  
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 ARK.EDU>  
   
   




Kris,

Thanks for reminding me about the 3174L (Local) vs 3174 (SNA).  Was that a
3174R or just plain 3174?

With the 3174L both TCP/IP and VTAM are not required as the are LOCAL
terminals to VM.

Jim
  -Original Message-
  From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  On Behalf Of Kris Buelens
  Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:43 PM
  To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
  Subject: Re: Two Questions About VM

  As already replied; DDR cannot restore to a disk of another device
  type.  So if your input is on tape, you will need to find a system
  with that type of DASD.  I don't know by heart, but may DITTO is able
  to restore DDR tapes to another type of disk.

  If however you have a running system with different types of DASD
  connected, you can use DFSMS COPY to copy CMS formatted minidisks
  from one disk type to another (even from CKD to FBA).  DFSMS comes
  free of charge with VM, but it is only installed when you explictely
  do it (DFSMS COPY is high speed, it used to be a lot faster than
  DDR).   If this is your case, contact me again, I have some execs to
  help you during such a migration.

  3174's came in two versions: a SNA one and a channel attached
  version.  To use the channel attached version, no extra SW is
  required on VM, no TCP/IP, no VTAM either.  The SNA model requires
  VTAM.  If you got a modern CPU (like a z series) and a not too old
  z/VM, you can use the integrated 3270 console and install VM from the
  HMC (hardware console).  No need to search for any other 3270-like
  device.

  P.S. 9345's were not FBA, but CKD
  --
  Kris Buelens,
  IBM Belgium, VM customer support

  2007/4/11, Stracka, James (GTI) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
I can answer the second.  VTAM and TCP/IP are totally independent
on VM.  TCP/IP does not use CSA in GCS as it does on OS/390
systems.

I am unfamiliar with a 9395.  If it is also an FBA device, you can
restore block ranges but the entire DASD depends on the amount of
blocks.  You may go smaller to larger but not larger to smaller.
  -Original Message-
  From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sergio Lima
  Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:12 PM
  To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
  Subject: Two Questions About VM

  Hi List,

  I don't work with VM for a long time, but now, have a friend
  that ask some questions, and I don't remember very well, so,
  I need a help in this list.
  The first question are about DDR,
   Is possible do a DDR Backup from 9345 DASD, and restore this
  to a 9395 DASD ?
  Another question is if need install TCP/IP under VM, using a
  3174 device, is necessary have also VTAM installed under VM.
  This TC

Re: Two Questions About VM

[Stracka, James (GTI)]

Kris,
 
Thanks for reminding me about the 3174L (Local) vs 3174 (SNA).  Was that a 
3174R or just plain 3174?
 
With the 3174L both TCP/IP and VTAM are not required as the are LOCAL terminals 
to VM.
 
Jim

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
Of Kris Buelens
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:43 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Re: Two Questions About VM


As already replied; DDR cannot restore to a disk of another device 
type.  So if your input is on tape, you will need to find a system with that 
type of DASD.  I don't know by heart, but may DITTO is able to restore DDR 
tapes to another type of disk. 

If however you have a running system with different types of DASD 
connected, you can use DFSMS COPY to copy CMS formatted minidisks from one disk 
type to another (even from CKD to FBA).  DFSMS comes free of charge with VM, 
but it is only installed when you explictely do it (DFSMS COPY is high speed, 
it used to be a lot faster than DDR).   If this is your case, contact me again, 
I have some execs to help you during such a migration. 

3174's came in two versions: a SNA one and a channel attached version.  
To use the channel attached version, no extra SW is required on VM, no TCP/IP, 
no VTAM either.  The SNA model requires VTAM.  If you got a modern CPU (like a 
z series) and a not too old z/VM, you can use the integrated 3270 console and 
install VM from the HMC (hardware console).  No need to search for any other 
3270-like device. 

P.S. 9345's were not FBA, but CKD
-- 
Kris Buelens,
IBM Belgium, VM customer support 


2007/4/11, Stracka, James (GTI) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: 

I can answer the second.  VTAM and TCP/IP are totally 
independent on VM.  TCP/IP does not use CSA in GCS as it does on OS/390 systems.
 
I am unfamiliar with a 9395.  If it is also an FBA device, you 
can restore block ranges but the entire DASD depends on the amount of blocks.  
You may go smaller to larger but not larger to smaller.


-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL 
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sergio Lima
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:12 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Two Questions About VM


Hi List,
 
I don't work with VM for a long time, but now, have a 
friend that ask some questions, and I don't remember very well, so, I need a 
help in this list.
The first question are about DDR,
 Is possible do a DDR Backup from 9345 DASD, and 
restore this to a 9395 DASD ?
Another question is if need install TCP/IP under VM, 
using a 3174 device, is necessary have also VTAM installed under VM.
This TCP/IP will be used only for Telnet.
 
Thanks in advance
 
Sergio Lima Costa

__
Fale com seus amigos de graça com o novo Yahoo! 
Messenger 
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Re: Two Questions About VM

[Nick Laflamme]

Sergio Lima wrote:
Is possible do a DDR Backup from 9345 DASD, and restore this to a 9395 
DASD ?


What hasn't been said specifically is that the 9345 used a weird disk 
geometry that wasn't quite like the 3380s or 3390s the 9395s and other 
more recent disk arrays emulate.


So, no, you can't. With more recent disk arrays, you probably can match 
the emulated geometries quite easily, but the 9345s were queer beasts.

Re: Two Questions About VM

[Kris Buelens]

As already replied; DDR cannot restore to a disk of another device type.  So
if your input is on tape, you will need to find a system with that type of
DASD.  I don't know by heart, but may DITTO is able to restore DDR tapes to
another type of disk.

If however you have a running system with different types of DASD connected,
you can use DFSMS COPY to copy CMS formatted minidisks from one disk type to
another (even from CKD to FBA).  DFSMS comes free of charge with VM, but it
is only installed when you explictely do it (DFSMS COPY is high speed, it
used to be a lot faster than DDR).   If this is your case, contact me again,
I have some execs to help you during such a migration.

3174's came in two versions: a SNA one and a channel attached version.  To
use the channel attached version, no extra SW is required on VM, no TCP/IP,
no VTAM either.  The SNA model requires VTAM.  If you got a modern CPU (like
a z series) and a not too old z/VM, you can use the integrated 3270 console
and install VM from the HMC (hardware console).  No need to search for any
other 3270-like device.

P.S. 9345's were not FBA, but CKD
--
Kris Buelens,
IBM Belgium, VM customer support

2007/4/11, Stracka, James (GTI) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


 I can answer the second.  VTAM and TCP/IP are totally independent on VM.
TCP/IP does not use CSA in GCS as it does on OS/390 systems.

I am unfamiliar with a 9395.  If it is also an FBA device, you can restore
block ranges but the entire DASD depends on the amount of blocks.  You may
go smaller to larger but not larger to smaller.

 -Original Message-
*From:* The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On
Behalf Of *Sergio Lima
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:12 PM
*To:* IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
*Subject:* Two Questions About VM

Hi List,

I don't work with VM for a long time, but now, have a friend that ask some
questions, and I don't remember very well, so, I need a help in this list.
The first question are about DDR,
 Is possible do a DDR Backup from 9345 DASD, and restore this to a 9395
DASD ?
Another question is if need install TCP/IP under VM, using a 3174 device,
is necessary have also VTAM installed under VM.
This TCP/IP will be used only for Telnet.

Thanks in advance

Sergio Lima Costa

__
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 If you are not an intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify the
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Re: Two Questions About VM

[Wakser, David]

Sergio:

I don't recall what those drives are, but with DDR you CANNOT restore 
to a DIFFERENT device type (CKD to FBA) or model (3380 to 339, for example). 
You CAN restore to a LARGER device (for example 3380 smaller units to a larger 
one).

TCPIP for VM does NOT require VTAM at all.

David Wakser



From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Sergio Lima
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:12 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Two Questions About VM


Hi List,
 
I don't work with VM for a long time, but now, have a friend that ask some 
questions, and I don't remember very well, so, I need a help in this list.
The first question are about DDR,
 Is possible do a DDR Backup from 9345 DASD, and restore this to a 9395 DASD ?
Another question is if need install TCP/IP under VM, using a 3174 device, is 
necessary have also VTAM installed under VM.
This TCP/IP will be used only for Telnet.
 
Thanks in advance
 
Sergio Lima Costa

__
Fale com seus amigos de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger 
http://br.messenger.yahoo.com/ 

Re: Two Questions About VM

[Stracka, James (GTI)]

I can answer the second.  VTAM and TCP/IP are totally independent on VM.  
TCP/IP does not use CSA in GCS as it does on OS/390 systems.
 
I am unfamiliar with a 9395.  If it is also an FBA device, you can restore 
block ranges but the entire DASD depends on the amount of blocks.  You may go 
smaller to larger but not larger to smaller.

-Original Message-
From: The IBM z/VM Operating System [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
Of Sergio Lima
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 1:12 PM
To: IBMVM@LISTSERV.UARK.EDU
Subject: Two Questions About VM


Hi List,
 
I don't work with VM for a long time, but now, have a friend that ask 
some questions, and I don't remember very well, so, I need a help in this list.
The first question are about DDR,
 Is possible do a DDR Backup from 9345 DASD, and restore this to a 9395 
DASD ?
Another question is if need install TCP/IP under VM, using a 3174 
device, is necessary have also VTAM installed under VM.
This TCP/IP will be used only for Telnet.
 
Thanks in advance
 
Sergio Lima Costa

__
Fale com seus amigos de graça com o novo Yahoo! Messenger 
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