[IceHorses] OT(kind of): Saddle fit

[JR]

I have a three year old appy filly.  My courbette saddle, when put on 
her, slants terribly down hill.  I can use a wither builder but it 
might not build it up enough.  I have looked at treeless but am a 
little worried.  Wouldn't you just be "bouncing" on thier spine?  Isn't 
that why saddles have gullets?  I can't find any treeless that do.  
What is the difference between a bareback pad and a treeless?  I know 
if you ride bareback to much your horse will get a sore back.  Couldn't 
it be the same with a treeless?  She has a very short back and is still 
growing and changing.  Anyone have a saddle with CAIR panils and gullet 
change?  How well does that work?

I just figured Icelandics are very hard to fit horses and thought you 
guys would have a lot of experience with saddle problems.

JR

PS. My courbette has a flex tree.  It fits my Icelandic-look-a-like.

[IceHorses] RIP Rich N Shiny 2004-2008: Please deworm your horses

[JR]

At the barn I board my two horses, there was another outbreak of 
Strangles.  Three horses had come down with Strangles last year when 
we vaccinated and several came down with it a month ago.  Since we 
always have horses coming and going, it is very important to keep our 
horses up to date on everything.  A carrier horse had come to the 
barn and infected the other horses before we figured it out.  
Thankfully, none of mine got it.  Two of the sick horses had been 
vaccinated.  One of them happened to be a champion AQHA called Rich N 
Shiny, known as Tater.  After he had recovered, he was still kept in 
isolation but brought down to the barn so a better eye could be kept 
on him.
One day while feeding, the owner of the barn found him down in his 
stall.  She quickly called the owner and gave him a shot of 
banamine.  Soon, Tater had been loaded up and sent down to Marion 
Dupot Scott Equine Medical Center.
Just a personal note.  I had taken my thoroughbred mare down there 
two years ago for a choke.  Other then the setback of her getting 
pneumonia, she recovered just fine.  My bank account, not so much.
After several tests, it was concluded that Tater had an impaction.  
When an ultrasound was done they found a football, relatively, sized 
mass of worms in his small intestine.  When the owner was asked about 
deworming, she said that she had not dewormed him since he had come 
to our barn, about ten months ago.  Tater was insured for colic but 
would only have paid a third of the cost.  After a hard decision, 
Tater was humanely euthinized.
Since we recently dewormed, and several were power wormed (including 
mine), this poor horse must have had a bad infestation.  Deworming is 
so cheep.  At the barn, we do a every other month three rotation.  I 
can not imagine not deworming and I can't see why some people don't 
rotate.  Country Supply, Horse.Com, has a Premium deworming pack (six 
deworming tubes of three rotation) for only thirty some dollars.  I 
think that is a lot better then a several thousand dollar surgery.  
Tater was only 4 or 5 five years old.  This is a terrible tragedy.  
This was a gorgous horse that was a treasure to ride.

JR

[IceHorses] Winter grooming advise

[JR]

My old gelding has diarrhea.  I don't get out to the barn much during 
the winter so I rely on the stable manager to inform me of any changes 
in my horses.  Well apparently nobody knowest.  So I am planning on 
doing a Pancur Powerpac deworming, since that all need it, and that 
should stop the diarrhea.  But this still leaves me with a very 
discusting tail and butt.  Any idea on how I clean up his tail?  It is 
absolutly caked, and it ain't mud.  PLEASE HELP

JR

[IceHorses] Pony Problems

[JR]

When I went looking for a pony last year, I found Jakey.  He was 
being kept for a women for free given that he could be used in 
lessons.  This adorible 13'3 bay gelding was to die for.  I asked why 
I had not seen him in our lessons.  The woman laugh and said the 
first time a child was put up on him, Jakey took off and throw the 
little girl into the wall.  OUCH!  He won't stand still or be 
tacked.  The first thing I did was throw a bridle on him and jumped 
up.  He froze.  I don't think anyone had ever rode him bare back.  
Since the owners daughter had been much larger then me I knew the 
weight wouldn't bother him.  After a year, I have put up on him a 
small girl who had been thrown by a larger horse.  I told her if she 
fell her feet were almost to the ground already.  Jake followed me 
around the ring like a good boy.  Jakey is not a kids pony.  I have 
meet very few ponys I would put a begining kid on.  We use the 17 
hand Appaloosa gelding.  The ponys I have meet don't have the 
patients to put up with a small child.  I put a CAT on my appaloosa 
filly, two year old, and she just walk around behind me.  The cat was 
more freaked out then Molly.  We had a women buy her children minis 
to ride.  If they hadn't been so small, they would have killed them.  
They reared, bucked, bit, kicked.  The smaller they are the worst 
they can be.  I love Jakey but he can be a pain.  I let children mess 
with him because they are often scared of the bigger horses.  Jake is 
the kind of horse that if you see him standing around, you gravitate 
to him.  You have to pet him.  But I always tell people just because 
they are small doesn't make them good for kids.  Most of our lesson 
horses are quarter horses and thoroughbreds.  No real ponys.  Though 
the one girls quarter is just under 14'2 on his tip toes.  A pony 
isn't just a size, it is a type.  Some ponys are over 14'2 and some 
horses are under 14'3.  It has to do with the way the animal is 
built.  Assatique ponys are a good example.  In the wild they are 13' 
or so but when raised in captivity they get up to 15'.  OK well I 
have rambled enough

JR
Jakey the Wonder Pony
Molly the Spotted Sweet

[IceHorses] Re: No Hands!

[JR]

The next picture would show the riding flat on her back on the 
ground. ;P  If I sat back that far, I would be seeing how high my 
gelding can buck.

JR
Jakey the Wonder Pony

[IceHorses] Re: O T Question

[JR]

Horses use thier senses to observe the world around them.  On a windy 
day, everything is moving, making them think something might be hiding 
in there.  The wind also brings tons of new smells and for all they 
know that dog or something is right behind that moving bush.  The wind 
also dulls their hearing.  Can't hear, weird smells, everything moving, 
and it feels like something is touching them.  Other then taste, thier 
whole world has been shaken up.

JR
Molly and Jacky

[IceHorses] Ranch Equipment/personal property and Real Estate Auction Wisconsin

[Ray K Miller, Jr.]

Complete Ranch Dispersal Sale



Saturday Nov. 24, 2007 at 9:00 a.m.  M & M Ranch & Outfitters
www.mmranchfun.com    is having a complete
dispersal sale of all personal ranch property.  This includes horses,
draft teams, hay racks, people wagons, covered wagon, saddles, bridles,
complete tack room supplies, all equipment needed to run a commercial
stable. Lots of horse shoeing supplies and equipment from my farrier
business, GE Anvil, Forge, hand tools.  This is quality horse equipment.
All New With In Two Years.  Excellent line of good saddle horses that
were used on our hack string.  Horse trailers bumper pull and goose
neck,   All in excellent condition.  In addition there will be gates,
panels, round pen, fencing supplies, farm and ranch heavy equipment:
plows, discs, tractor, Huff high end loader and other equipment.  There
will be also Trek Bicycles which some have never been ridden, Old Town
canoes and related water outfitting equipment, office equipment.  School
bus, cube van, picks up truck.   This is a full ranch dispersal of ALL
Personal Property.  This will be a very large sale and may be a two ring
sale.  The sale is being conducted by another auction company to keep it
arm length and no improprieties www.centralwihorsesales.net
   click on up coming auctions for
additional list of what is to sell.



The ranch real estate will sell at public auction some time in December.
You need to watch for this sale date as well.  We will be selling the
entire 200 + acres as a multi parcel auction in five tracts and as a
whole.   All 19 buildings in good repair and fencing in good repair.
Open meadows, creek bottom, rolling hill sides, woods, some ag ground,
small lake and pond. Excellent hunting location.  Easy on easy off I-90,
This property has a current appraised value of $2.5M as she sits, land
and buildings.  An Appraised value for future commercial horse
recreation development of $5M and residential development $15M.  These
appraisals were done by a member of the Appraisal Institute and not a
member of my staff or business.





Everyone wants a reason of why the liquidation?  It is simple after two
years of fighting the good fight and getting the operation up and
running.  One of our main partners had to pull out do to finical reasons
of his own in the down turn of the sub-prime and commercial lending
markets. Leaving a hole in our funding that we have not been able to
replace with other funds to fully complete the project. The second
reason I (Ray Miller) have reached a point in my life where I want to
slow down a bit and enjoy personal time with the boss (Bobbie) out
riding our own horses and doing a bit of traveling around the country to
cowboy and equine events.  I have lost two good friends in the past year
in my age group, they retired but never had the time to complete their
retirement projects or spend time with there love ones. The other reason
is I just don't want spend time fighting the good fight looking for
funding in a very tough commercial financial markets at present.  I will
be keeping my Auction and Appraisal business  www.raymiller.ws
  and our saddle fitting business
www.saddlefitting.net Bobbie will
continue on at Mc Farlane's in Sauk City with the animal health and tack
department.



She was a good race and the ranch has/had a lot of potential.  But as
the The Gambler has said, "you got to know when to hold them and when to
fold them", this time I want to fold them

[IceHorses] Re: WWWHHHHOOOAAAAA

[JR]

 > This is a 30 year old horse, unfit, not been ridden for a long 
time, suddenly had a saddle put on and ridden in trot and canter. 
Now, to me, that seems like simply asking for trouble.

He had been in good condition before he choked, like a month ago.  A 
day of arena work, a day of trail work, and one of something new.  
The trotting and cantering was his idea.  He was about jumping out of 
his shoes.  He was practicaly piaffing.  I told him to trot and he 
started a slow canter.  I pulled him out of it after a few strides 
though.  
  
> It sounds to me like he has some kind of pain issue - not that 
surprising if he's had a long rest, then been asked to trot and 
canter out of the blue. I would guess he hurt, and he said in the 
only way left "get the hell off me, lady!".

The saddle does fit.  I have had four people, trainer, teacher, show 
trainer, barn owner: all that ride western.  He is long in the back 
and has nice withers.  I do usually ride him in my english but I know 
that he can get naughty after some time off.

>So he got more riding, pretty intense from the sound of it, to teach 
him a lesson

I just had him do turning on the hunches and forehand, walk/back, 
side pass, all things he has done before.  I do that until he seems 
to be on the aids.
 
> If you had had a long break from exercise (and you were a pensioner 
to boot!), you would not start with a 5 mile run. You should not ask 
your poor old horse to do the same - please, I know this probably 
sounds harsh, but have some common sense!

We used to take long trail rides.  He has what I call the pony 
patiance. Or lack there of.  He is always jigging and dancing.  I 
have to leave his stall door open, with a guard, so he can watch 
everything going on in the barn.  

JR

[IceHorses] Winter feeding

[JR]

Jakey is a thirty year old.  I ride Jakey two or three times a week.  
The stable owner is in charge of his feeding.  She said that they are 
feeding him one scoop of beet pulp, one scoop of senior feed and one 
scoop of sweet feed.  I told her that this was way too much for him.  
He is only 13'2 and no more then 700 lbs.  She said that when they 
first got him they were feeding him even more.  He was brought in very 
thin.  She also said that if we don't feed him enough his weight will 
crash.  I also have a Rhino medium weight on him.

Does anyone have any ideas?  Any suppliments or different feeds?

JR

[IceHorses] WWWHHHHOOOAAAAA

[JR]

I decided to ride Jakey yesterday.  I must admit it has been a very 
long time, he recently had a choke.  At the last minute I decided to 
take a western saddle since we were going out into the field.  We 
went out and everything was fine.  We troted and did some canter.  
Suddenly he just took off.  I am talking full out gallop.  I don't 
think my thoroughbred has ever run that fast.  I was pulling on him 
as much as I could.  Even the borrowed tom thumb wasn't working.  I 
have never ever had him do this.  He flew around a turn and ran to 
the gate.  He then have the nerve to look around at me and nip my 
foot.  .  Was he in trouble.  I took him in the ring, after I 
sat down so I would stop shaking.  I mean I was visualizing broken 
bones and cuncutions.  I ran him through his paces until a lift of my 
hand would freeze him.  I then let him run around with our young stud 
colt.  He stood at the door to be let out.  But I made him stand.  

I hope now he he has learned his leason and will never do that agian.

Please note: We often ride in the field.  I don't think anyone has 
had a horse take off in the field.  Even the barn owner, who took 
care off Jake and bought him for me, was amazed.

JR
Also note that now he has been taken off all the beet pulp they were 
giving him.

[IceHorses] Never Look a Gift Horse in the Mouth

[JR]

Who ever came up with this saying was the one that was GIVING the 
horse.  Has anyone here ever been given a free horse?  Have you ever 
looked in his mouth?  Come on, you know who you are.  Well I guess I 
should give you some background.  Warning: this will be long.

Three years ago, a friend of mine told me of a job at a stud farm 
down the road.  I was in heaven. An exotic and rare breed of horses 
was at my fingertips, over forty in all.  The stallions were 
sometimes breed to thoroughbred mares for a sport horse.  One of the 
worst mares was a bay mare called Cat.  She was truly evil.  She 
attacked horses and people.  The way the long barn was built there 
were two stalls separated from all the others by the stocks.  We 
always to put Cat and her only friend, another thoroughbred mare 
named Emmy, in these stalls.  Cat would attack the wall between the 
stalls if she had another horse next to her.  She would ripe up her 
stall, dump her water, and lunge at horses walked past her stall.  
The stallions had to tease her last because if she weren't in heat 
she would make the stallion rethink his position.  Even when she was 
in heat, she was a banshee and had to be bred AI because she would 
still attack the stallion.  You had to keep a chain on this mare or 
she would trample you.  When a new mare was brought into the 
broodmare field, Cat beat her up so bad she was bruised outside and 
in.  We couldn't breed her for a month.  Well, the owner had had 
enough of this horse; she wanted her gone.  I had always wanted a 
thoroughbred and she was trained dressage.  So I asked how much.  I 
was told that this mare was bred to the nines and worth more then I 
could ever afford.  The next day, I was cleaning one of the stallion 
stalls when the owner came in.  She said I could have her if I got 
her out of there right now.  But I was told I could not have her 
papers unless I actually bought her.  OK. I could live without her 
papers.  I was told that Cat was 9 years old.  
Ok, I know what you are thinking.  Why would someone want a horse 
like this?  She was dangerous, right?  But you would be surprised 
what a little one on one can do with a horse like this.  No stress, 
good food, and a little TLC can change a horse.
Last October, I got a call from my boarding facility.  Cat was 
choking on her feed.  She always bolted her food, plus the owner 
against without my knowledge was feeding her dry shredded beet, 
really huge chunks.  She had started bolting her food because her 
life at the stud farm.  Three hours and four thousand dollars later, 
Cat was at least a little better.  She ended up suffering pneumonia.  
I haven't talked to the women who owned the barn where she was being 
kept since.  Since, I have had Cat's teeth done.  When the dentist 
looked at her teeth, he told me she was in her late teens early 
twenties.  I wanted to contact her original owner, the woman I got 
her from was a third party; Cat was her friend's horse.  I got her 
phone number and talked to her for over an hour.  Everything I knew 
about this horse was wrong.  The only thing that was right was she 
was a thoroughbred and her name was Cat.  The woman was more then 
happy to send me her papers.  Cat was actually nineteen years old.  
She had been trained to race but had never made it, though her full 
sister won over sixteen thousand.  The woman was only happy that Cat 
had gotten a good home.  
I have been trying to bring back an eleven-year-old mare to training, 
only to find out she is nineteen.  No wonder she was having a hard 
time of it.  So now I own a nineteen-year-old thoroughbred mare and a 
thirty-year-old Icelandic horse gelding; I knew how old the Icey was 
when I bought him.  I don't think I will ever trust someone when 
buying a horse.  
So next time someone tells you to "not to look a gift horse in the 
mouth" ask him or her why not.  Now I have changed her food, 
blankets, and training to better suit her age.  A horse I had been 
seeing with me for a very long time, has had that time almost cut in 
half.  I also might not have spent so much to save her from a choke.  
At her age, she could have very easily died but we thought she was 
younger and could easily bounce back.

Well, hindsight is twenty-twenty.

Janine

[IceHorses] Re: Come on!!!

[JR]

> Have we seen pictures of him?
> 
> 
> Judy
> http://icehorses.net
> http://clickryder.com
>
If you go under the group pictures, look under Jakey.  Sorry his head 
is on the ground but fresh grass can be pretty tempting.  He is only 
13'2 hands and build like a tank.  He does seem to have this weird 
trot.  He only does it under saddle.  Kind of like an extended trot.  

He is a spunky little guy for thirty.  Canters off on the correct 
lead.  I don't even need a halter on him, he walks in from the field to 
his stall and waits for me to close the door and feed him then I just 
open the door when he is done and he follows me back out to the field.  

His cough is still pretty wet but he seems to be perking up again.  I 
still need to get his teeth done.   Have you ever heard of a horse with 
almost no top teeth???  What is left can't be much bigger then your 
finger nails.  

JR and Loona Bolti (Jakey)

[IceHorses] Come on!!!

[JR]

Do all Icelandic Horses gait?  I had a women tell me that there is no 
way my Jakey can be an Icelandic because he doesn't tolt, pace, and 
he will canter.  She said that Icelandics don't canter.  First off 
not all horses are naturally gaited.  Second isn't there a certain 
way you have to ride them to get them to tolt and pace.  And last, 
Jakey is like thirty years old.  If he was "trained" to do it, would 
he really still do it.  We have a Saddlebred at the barn that has 
problems cantering.  They whip him and kick him and he just won't do 
it.  And his trot is like a jackhammer.  

There is nothing about this little guy that doesn't scream Icelandic; 
his head, body, size, "fuzz".  Every time I see a picture of an 
Icelandic, I can see Jakey in it.  His hair might not be as thick 
anymore but he is old and has been badly neglected before.  

JR and Jakey

PS.  Please pray for Jakey, last Friday he choked.  The vet tubed him 
and everything was resolved.  Next day he still had a little cough.  
I have been giving him 15cc of pennicilin two times a day.  
Yesterday, he wasn't as lethargic as he has been and even paced his 
stall a little.  But his cough is still very wet.  Being thirty I am 
worried but he is still eatting and seems to be getting some of his 
spark back.

[IceHorses] Re: Scarey Stuff, From the Horse's Point of View

[JR]

LOL  But she forgot the horse eating trailer.  Horses go in and never 
come out.  It is an evil cave, were the floor collapses under your 
feet.  NEVER TAKE YOUR EYES OFF OF IT.  Even if this means walking 
sideways and backwards.  Never ever touch it or it will suck you in.
Also there are the the disguised beast.  They may look like us and even 
smell like us but they are the size of the beast.  Get to close and one 
will latch on your leg and chew it off.  You can identify them by thier 
small size and high pitched whinny.  They also come with horns and 
disguise their voices, making a weird bleat.  Don't let them fool you.  
Humans can touch them but they only to that to get closer to you.

JR

Also I swear that red thing acrossed the road is sneeking up on us.  It 
get closer every time we walk past that door.  DON'T BE FOOLED!!!

[IceHorses] Ice or No Ice

[JR]

This afternoon I got my Equus magizine.  The first thing my mom said 
was that my pony, Jakey, was on the cover.  And low and behold the pony 
of the front look just like him.  The cover story was about 
Connemaras.  I have finally been able to post pictures of Jakey in the 
picture section.  Tell me, Icelandic or not.  The pictures are under 
Jakey, the rescued pony.

Jr

PS  I have not found information on Connemarras living long long 
lives.  The dentist puts Jakey at atleast 30 years old.

[IceHorses] Visit these sites for saddlefitting, clinic and auction information

[Ray K Miller, Jr.]

www.raymiller.ws

www.mmranchfun.com

www.saddlefitting.net

[IceHorses] Re: New to the Icey World

[JR]

 > Where are you located and how did you find Jakey?



We live in southcentral Pennsylvania.  Last year, my thoroughbred
mare and I were forced to leave our current barn.  Luckly there was a
very nice stable down the road from my house.  During the winter, I
am unable to ride my mare because she will lose weight.  I told the
owner of the stable that if she had horses that just needed exercise,
I would be happy to do it.  She then told me about a horse that had
been borought in that June.  She had agreed to keep these two horses
for a women.  The women told her that both horses would be great for
leason.  They agreed to keep the horses for free if the horses could
be used in lessons.  When to horses walked off the trailer, everyone
in the barn gasped.  Jakey was atleast a hundred pounds under
weight.  The other horse wasn't much better.  The owner said that
they hadn't have grain for "a couple of days".  YEAH RIGHT!  They
pored feed into these horses.  When they tried Jakey in lessons her
throw the girl.  He was then just left out in the field.  I started
to lease Jakey in January.  In April, his owner called and wanted
both horses back.  We talked her out of taking them until camp was
over.  I told the owner I would buy him.  After some negotiation, I
bought him for $300.  Then I went on a shopping spree!!  I love buy
things for him.

I will be putting the pictures of him on after I post this.
Hopefully they will post because I have tried to put pictures on this
before and haven't been able to.

JR and Jakey

[IceHorses] New to the Icey World

[JR]

Hi.  My name is JR.  I have just bought an abused and neglected 
thirty-something Icelandic gelding named Jakey.  I love to just walk 
out to the field with my bridle, jump on and ride through the field.  
Even at thirty plus, Jakey is a ball of energy that can out do any 
younger horse at the farm.  I truly don't belive this horse has had a 
better life until now.  When he came to the farm he had three hooves 
in the grave.  They didn't think he would live.  But he has suprized 
all of us.  After one day with him, I fell in love.  But the owner 
wanted him back, after we had saved his life.  I payed much more then 
I wanted but I couldn't let him go.  Now he has all his own stuff; 
bridle, halter, lead, name tag, big buckets of treats, feed, 
suppliments, meds, feet trimmed regularly, shots, worming.  He 
doesn't look like the same pithetic creature that crawled off the 
trailer almost a year age.  His coat shines.  He has a spring in his 
step.  I now walk him around without a halter in the barn.  He just 
follows me around.

After much research, we (everyone at the barn) have agreed that he is 
an Icelandic horse.  I get some grief over him being a horse not a 
pony because he is so small.  But I have yet to see a picture of a 
purebred Icelandic that doesn't look just like him.

Well that is enough for now.  I will post some pictures soon (and 
maybe he will let me get a good picture of him, not just his butt)

JR and Jakey