Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
I am quite ignorant of the whole gait deal (but trying to learn quickly!). Me too. And don't have the benefit of being around any other gaited horses very often either. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
Move the HQ over a little...that's interesting. Was it timed to a specific hind foot landing? Perhaps asking her to step under herself more? I think what he probably was doing was engaging the hind end. This can be a first step towards that engagement. -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands. - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
I think what he probably was doing was engaging the hind end. This can be a first step towards that engagement. Sorry - sent too soon - once the hind end was engaged, Drifa was naturally talented enough to pick up the tolt or whatever soft gait she was doing. -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley I ride ponies because heart is not measured in hands. - Steve Edwards
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
I think what he probably was doing was engaging the hind end. This can be a first step towards that engagement. Sorry - sent too soon - once the hind end was engaged, Drifa was naturally talented enough to pick up the tolt or whatever soft gait she was doing. Laree in NC This makes sense to me - because Drifa is naturally VERY talented. ;- ) The gait that she picked up was an even 4 beat gait, very smooth and we were zipping along in brisk trot speed. I thought it was tolt but .. well ... you all might have some other interpretation. I have not worried about gaits until very recently so... Penny
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
we were zipping along in brisk trot speed. I thought it was tolt but .. well ... you all might have some other interpretation. It doesn't matter, really, what it was as long as you and Drifa are happy and comfy with it! Just call it an easy gait. Will someone video tape you during the demo? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
What pointers? We all want to know!! I had Drifa on a fairly lose rein through this, only tightened up to change direction or speed (and a lot of that doesn't come from the reins) Trot to tolt - ask the hindquarters to move over a little - and she stepped right into the tolt. He also said that working in fairly deep sand helps them find the tolt and then you just work on letting them know that's what you want (every time they start even thinking about getting out of tolt, move the hindquarters over and help them find tolt again). Now, I don't know how far you might have to move your horse's hip over or what to do if that didn't work... Any gait to trot is a little difficult to explain. I feel the trot rhythm in my body and she trots (assuming that we are going into or are at trot speed). So - I slightly pick up my legs (by thinking that I have a rope pulling my knee up) and think R L R L R L 1 2 1 2 1 . It's actually my pelvis that moves. Some people lift up on their ankles a little but thinking about lifting my knee helps to keep my hips open. When I discussed this with David he seemed happy about how I do it, and we talked about feel and rhythm but I don't know if this is how he teaches it. This is just how I figured out how to make this work for Drifa and I. Liz Graves had me lift up on the reins slightly and shift my weight back a little to find tolt. I don't like to do it this way because I don't want to have to hold her head up at all (personal preference). Dave's way worked better for us - but I had only had Drifa for a couple of months at Liz's clinic so there's been a whole lot of learning by both Drifa and I since then which might have a lot to do with it. Penny
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
Trot to tolt - ask the hindquarters to move over a little - and she stepped right into the tolt. Functionally, why does this work? What effect does it have on the position of the horse's body and why does that cause him to move into tolt? I'm not being argumentative. I just do better when I understand the body mechanics involved. For Hunter, strongly gaited TWH, I just check him from any other gait and he immediately racks. He and Twist (Standardbred) both seem to have learned that when I sit from posting, they change gaits. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
Trot to tolt - ask the hindquarters to move over a little - and she stepped right into the tolt. Functionally, why does this work? What effect does it have on the position of the horse's body and why does that cause him to move into tolt? I'm not being argumentative. I just do better when I understand the body mechanics involved. The problem I see is that no method will work across the board for cuing trot-to-tolt, or tolt-to-trot, or foxtrot-to-running walk. Why? It makes a huge difference in what the horse is built to do. You have to base your actions on what the horse's conformation and wiring tendencies make him do. I don't have to do anything to get Sina to tolt - although her tolt is more likely to be either a saddle rack or stepping pace. I have to DO something to encourage her trot. Some horses are the opposite - by default they will trot. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
Liz Graves had me lift up on the reins slightly and shift my weight back a little to find tolt. I don't like to do it this way because I don't want to have to hold her head up at all (personal preference). Dave's way worked better for us - but I had only had Drifa for a couple of months at Liz's clinic so there's been a whole lot of learning by both Drifa and I since then which might have a lot to do with it. To clarify for the list though, Liz first evaluates what each horse is conformationally capable of. For instance, Trausti is conformationally capable of the full range of gaits, from pace to trot. She told me that I could try a mullen mouth pelham on him, and maybe hold his head slightly to get him to do a true rack/tolt, but I prefer to ride with a looser rein, and Liz is certainly VERY supportive of that. When I sit (sat...now that he's Janice's horse) quietly and in balance on him, with a very quiet, loose rein with a French link snaffle, he defaults to flat walk and run walk, and I'm sure he would with no bit as well. It wouldn't be a stretch for Trausti to tolt - he's certainly very capable of it. (Well...except he's so calmatose that it's hard to imagine him getting up energy to do a true, single-foot rack/tolt.) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
Trot to tolt - ask the hindquarters to move over a little - and she stepped right into the tolt. Functionally, why does this work? What effect does it have on the position of the horse's body and why does that cause him to move into tolt? I'm not being argumentative. I just do better when I understand the body mechanics involved. The problem I see is that no method will work across the board for cuing trot-to-tolt, or tolt-to-trot, or foxtrot-to-running walk. Karen Thomas, NC Drifa does a lot of gaits - walk, trot canter, tolt, pace and a bunch more. David just watched her go for a little bit and then said move her hindquarters over a little and I did, and she tolted. The HQ thing was just the first thing we tried. He has other things but I don't know what they are. I didn't mean to give the impression that he had sent a lot of time teaching the gaits; we sure didn't. He was mainly figuring out where we would fit into his demo.He had several suggestions for teaching canter, too. We weren't really there to learn how to do stuff too much; he wants us to be the gait newbies. I'm hoping not to embarrass myself too much. At Liz's clinic, Drifa and I were very new to each other and so I just tried what Liz suggested and decided I'd rather not tolt if I had to do it that way. Liz was fine with that and didn't offer any other solutions. It wasn't a big deal to either of us. Liz did take Drifa for a spin and had some fun with her, though. Penny
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
Trot to tolt - ask the hindquarters to move over a little - and she stepped right into the tolt. Functionally, why does this work? What effect does it have on the position of the horse's body and why does that cause him to move into tolt? I'm not being argumentative. I just do better when I understand the body mechanics involved. I am sorry but I don't know how or why it works, but it really, really worked. I don't even know why David chose that particular method. He did say something about helping her just step into tolt. I am quite ignorant of the whole gait deal (but trying to learn quickly!). Penny
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
2008/6/3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Drifa does a lot of gaits - walk, trot canter, tolt, pace and a bunch more. David just watched her go for a little bit and then said move her hindquarters over a little and I did, and she tolted. Move the HQ over a little...that's interesting. Was it timed to a specific hind foot landing? Perhaps asking her to step under herself more? I hope you get videos ...I'd be very interested in seeing the two of you working through this.. Wanda -- Thoughts become things...
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
He also gave me some pointer for asking for the tolt and now we can go from tolt to trot and from trot to tolt quite nicely. What pointers? We all want to know!!
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 07:49:29 -0700, you wrote: All gaits have the same footfall: LH, LF, RH, RF Trot doesn't! Nor hard pace! ; )) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
On 6/2/08, Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 07:49:29 -0700, you wrote: All gaits have the same footfall: LH, LF, RH, RF Trot doesn't! Nor hard pace! those are the four letter word gaits :) Janice-- even good horses have bad days sometimes.
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
On Mon, 2 Jun 2008 11:54:35 -0500, you wrote: those are the four letter word gaits :) what, like walk, tolt and rack? ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk ---
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
He also gave me some pointer for asking for the tolt and now we can go from tolt to trot and from trot to tolt quite nicely. What pointers? We all want to know!! I had Drifa on a fairly lose rein through this, only tightened up to change direction or speed (and a lot of that doesn't come from the reins) Trot to tolt - ask the hindquarters to move over a little - and she stepped right into the tolt. He also said that working in fairly deep sand helps them find the tolt and then you just work on letting them know that's what you want (every time they start even thinking about getting out of tolt, move the hindquarters over and help them find tolt again). Now, I don't know how far you might have to move your horse's hip over or what to do if that didn't work... Any gait to trot is a little difficult to explain. I feel the trot rhythm in my body and she trots (assuming that we are going into or are at trot speed). So - I slightly pick up my legs (by thinking that I have a rope pulling my knee up) and think R L R L R L 1 2 1 2 1 . It's actually my pelvis that moves. Some people lift up on their ankles a little but thinking about lifting my knee helps to keep my hips open. When I discussed this with David he seemed happy about how I do it, and we talked about feel and rhythm but I don't know if this is how he teaches it. This is just how I figured out how to make this work for Drifa and I. Liz Graves had me lift up on the reins slightly and shift my weight back a little to find tolt. I don't like to do it this way because I don't want to have to hold her head up at all (personal preference). Dave's way worked better for us - but I had only had Drifa for a couple of months at Liz's clinic so there's been a whole lot of learning by both Drifa and I since then which might have a lot to do with it. Penny
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
Here's a really good natural gait video, of Nanna, Icelandic Horse barefoot, treeless, bitless): tolt lh lf rh rf even, 4 beat gait. ;-)) Nanna is doing a running walk in this video, which is a four-beat gait that is square (versus the four-beat tolt which is lateral). Oh, nuts. And I now remember the bit about the footfalls (although pace and trot do not have this footfall pattern). What is the difference between the running walk and the tolt? Tolt is a four-beat gait, but it's a lateral gait. What makes it a lateral gait (vs a what gait?) All gaits have the same footfall: LH, LF, RH, RF I am going to watch the second DVD tonight or tomorrow. Showtime is Friday. Yikes. Fortunately I am the token ignorant-of-gaits person so it looks I like am well-suited for the part.
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
I am re-doing this as my computer said that it didn't send and erased the old one. Sorry if it is a repeat. Next week is the Western States Horse Expo in Sacramento. Drifa and I are going to be in Davis Lichman's demo Whooo-hooo! Yes, I am pretty excited about this. am studying up on gaits so I have some clue about what I will be doing. Yikes! I have David's DVD's - Gaiting Naturally and am trying to make some sense of it all. How much can a person learn about gaits in a week? What do you need to know? everything! When gaits are discussed on this list, I just go on to the next thing. We have so many other things to work on that I have chosen to ignore gaits. When Drifa tolts, I ask her to trot, and when she paces I grit my teeth. I have been watching David's Gaiting Naturally DVD and have learned a whole bunch. He has studied with Deb Bennet and uses her little hoofprints to demonstrate the footfalls. It makes a whole lot more sense to me now - the way he explained was really easy to understand. He also gave me some pointer for asking for the tolt and now we can go from tolt to trot and from trot to tolt quite nicely. And all on a loose rein - no pulling her head up or leaning way back or putting my feet out front. Have you seen the videos? Anyone? What did you think, if so? Here's a really good natural gait video, of Nanna, Icelandic Horse (barefoot, treeless, bitless): tolt lh lf rh rf even, 4 beat gait. ;-)) http://gaited-horse.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-gait-icelandic-horse- nanna.html Judy Penny
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 9:04 PM, pennyndrifa [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Next week is the Western States Horse Expo in Sacramento. Drifa and I are going to be in Davis Lichman's demo me and say hi. Penny Does this mean you are going to be one of those insufferable celebrities!?! LOL Ferne PS Unfortunately, I'm not going to the Horse Expo this year. Going to the Husch Wine Club picnic with my sis instead...
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
Next week is the Western States Horse Expo in Sacramento. Drifa and I are going to be in Davis Lichman's demo - we are the ones who don't do gaits and David will show people how to get the gaits using us. So, I am studying up on gaits so I have some clue about what I will be doing. Yikes! I have David's DVD's - Gaiting Naturally and am trying to make some sense of it all. How much can a person learn about gaits in a week? First, congratlations for this honor! Ok, next question: is he supposed to demonstate the gaits, or just show that a horse can gait using natural methods? It's a big distinction to me, even if I haven't phrased it clearly, and I probably didn't. I have those videos, but honestly, I didn't learn anything about the gaits from them. What I DID see is that horses don't have to be padded, cranked up, shod specially or whatever in order to do a gait. I saw that horses can be ridden in a natural, no-force way based on Natural Horsemanship and whatever gait the horses has naturally should bubble forth. That's reassuring, and I'd already taken the long and winding road by that time to find out that with my TWH mare, Holly. The downside (or upside, depending on your perspective) was that his videos didn't teach me anything about distinguishing a foxtrot from a saddle rack, for instance. I think you're pretty far along in your PNH program with Drifa, right - at least into Level 2? Then my guess is that you won't have any trouble showing how to demonstrate (or have him show you how to show) a natural gait. But, if you (the generic you, not Penny particularly) happen to have a horse that's genuinely and readily multi-gaited (meaning that it's just as easy for the horse to do a foxtrot as running walk or saddle rack, for instance), then I'd do a review of Lee Ziegler's book, Easy-Gaited Horses, or review some stuff from Liz Grave's website. I think PNH or similar is a good foundation for any horse, gaited or not, but I like to layer the Lee/Liz stuff on top when I get serious about distinguishing or requesting different gaits. I spoke with Drifa about it and she says I am hopeless. Anyhow - if anyone is coming to the Expo, I hope that you will find me and say hi. Tell Drifa that you may be hopeless, but it's up to her to save the day! I wish I could see it. I hope you can get someone to video and maybe put some on YouTube. Good luck and have a great time! Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] What we are going to do....
Next week is the Western States Horse Expo in Sacramento. Drifa and I are going to be in Davis Lichman's demo Whooo-hooo! am studying up on gaits so I have some clue about what I will be doing. Yikes! I have David's DVD's - Gaiting Naturally and am trying to make some sense of it all. How much can a person learn about gaits in a week? What do you need to know? Here's a really good natural gait video, of Nanna, Icelandic Horse (barefoot, treeless, bitless): http://gaited-horse.blogspot.com/2008/05/what-gait-icelandic-horse-nanna.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
[IceHorses] What we are going to do....
Next week is the Western States Horse Expo in Sacramento. Drifa and I are going to be in Davis Lichman's demo - we are the ones who don't do gaits and David will show people how to get the gaits using us. So, I am studying up on gaits so I have some clue about what I will be doing. Yikes! I have David's DVD's - Gaiting Naturally and am trying to make some sense of it all. How much can a person learn about gaits in a week? I spoke with Drifa about it and she says I am hopeless. Anyhow - if anyone is coming to the Expo, I hope that you will find me and say hi. Penny
