Re: [IceHorses] Who??
HA!! when I go into an arena with mirrors...Huginn does the very same thing...walks up to the mirrors and stares at himself. ;][
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
. I see many competitive people that just stop showing when they see what happens to so many horses 'to win a ribbon' and work towards making horses more comfortable and having a better relationship with their people. In all the excitement and preparations for the WC I got really enthusiastic and thought really seriously about getting back into competitions again, having ridden at 4 WCs in the past (the last time was in 1997). Having gone, and seen what some riders do to get results, I decided I no longer want to show in mainstream Icelandic horse competition at any more than a local level. It's just not worth it, and the people who don't really push their horses (read abuse there) just don't come anywhere. Horrible. Ah, Robyn, remember the good old days in Switzerland washing dye off Skrudur's leg and cutting up old towels to use as face masks to keep the flies off? ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Hi Mic Ah, Robyn, remember the good old days in Switzerland washing dye off Skrudur's leg and cutting up old towels to use as face masks to keep the flies off? ; ) Oh do I remember! I had to go to a beauty parlour and find dye remover and his leg ended up looking more like clay than white. I think I rode in 5 WC and I have to say that it was great fun - an international event where you could reconnect with people who lived far away and meet new people. I didn't like what lots of people did to their horses but for the most part the group was different from most horse show people. Pretty much every rider takes care of their own horse - cleaning, grooming and making sure that they could be out on pasture as much of the time as possible. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this? / Feldmann
Isn't it amazing that he would be brought in by the USIHC to teach here? I mean, use plain old common sense in watching his horses and riders ride, and anyone can see the unnaturalness of it. And isn't it just amazing that people think that you have to have special trainers to train Icelandic horses? That's just nutty...but I have noticed that almost everyone who says that has no prior experience with gaited horses. I love my Icelandic's and I've never had such complete breed loyalty to a breed. But, my goodness, gaits are gaits, no matter what the breed. You evaluate the gaits of the horse in front of you at the moment, and ride THAT one horse. Good Icelandic's have so many special qualities, and I get totally mushy about this breed...but the gaits are gaits, and it's certainly not their gaits that set them apart from other breeds! I've ridden a lot of three-gaited horses in my life, and have owned several for a many years. Gee, no two three-gaited horses trot exactly the same. Thunder, an Arab, has what most people would consider warmblood type gaits - lots of suspension, and very clean gaits. I remember a few years ago, my trainer-friend, Shirley, rode a huge Warmblood mare for a lady, and she commented on how comfortable that mare's trot was to ride - not warmblood-ish at all, but almost joggy. You can't even make breed gait generalities among three-gaited horses - many of the Appendix QH's have big trots, while some QH's have butter-soft jogs. A good trainer will ride the horse-of-the-moment, and will make adjustments as needed...without worrying what the breed is. No, when someone says they have to have a special trainer for an Icelandic pony, I immediately wonder how much REAL horse experience that person has...it's usually not much. Isn't it sad that some people are swayed by foreign accents, and the need to feel different, so will fall for harsh training methods. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.18/1254 - Release Date: 1/31/2008 8:30 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this? / Feldmann
On Fri, Feb 01, 2008 at 07:04:36AM -0500, Karen Thomas wrote: No, when someone says they have to have a special trainer for an Icelandic pony, I immediately wonder how much REAL horse experience that person has...it's usually not much. Isn't it sad that some people are swayed by foreign accents, and the need to feel different, so will fall for harsh training methods. i think this is a fairly sad overgeneralization. when i first had stjarni, we worked with a trainer who had icelandic experience; she had trained half a dozen icelandics before. but most of her work was with three-gaited horses (eventing and racetrack), and apparently all of the icelandics she had known had tended to be the trotty sort. when i told her i thought stjarni's tolt was getting pacier and pacier, she had no idea what i meant, and we went round and round on it without the problem getting any better :/ i emailed this list a photo of us at the time and everyone immediately went stepping pace, a phrase that meant nothing to my instructor. i then turned to a friend of mine with a whole lot more icelandic experience (she owned one, she had trained many both in the us and in iceland) and in one hour's lesson she did more to help me understand stjarni's movement and what i was doing to affect it than my other instructor had in two months. her training methods included a lot of circling and changes of direction, and me riding in half-seat. how harsh is that? i now have a trainer who's ethnically icelandic, and her training methods have included bareback riding, trotting poles, hill work (and not stupid stuff like cantering downhill, but trotting up and walking down), figure 8's and similar patterns, voice commands, give and take rather than any steady rein pressure, laterals, and making sure stjarni stays mentally engaged and interested in what we do. how harsh is any of that? does her accent somehow make it worse? more to the point: should i have stuck with my whitebread american original instructor for the sake of political correctness, while my pony became more and more stiff-sided and i became more and more frustrated? not hardly. stjarni's not three-gaited, he's pacy if not properly conditioned to be flexible through his sides, and he gets bored and i get disinformed with training that doesn't help. just because someone is icelandic doesn't make them harsh, and just because someone's american and a good overall horse person doesn't mean they know jack about the soft gaits or the pace. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this? / Feldmann
A good trainer will ride the horse-of-the-moment, and will make adjustments as needed...without worrying what the breed is. Well said, Karen, well said! For the record. the second best trotting horse I ever owned was a 16 h off-track appendix quarter horse. The best ever was a 15.3 h Thoroughbred mare. The girl I sold her took her to an evaluation in California and was told she had the best conformation for a dressage horse of any horse they'd looked at that day. She sold her then and there. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Who??
Gat didn't know the beauty she was looking at was herself! V (When Orri was introduced to the mirror he was all puzzled--kept looking for legs below the mirror.) Oh that is cute. Lorraine Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:02:53 -0500, you wrote: It looks like Walter Feldman to me, but I'm not sure. I thought that too. At least he's in a nice soft school rather than on the road or something. I would have got off and checked the horse was ok, but then maybe he did after the video ended (the trip is very close to the end, he only takes a few steps and is still recovering). Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Another dumb question. Who is Walter? Lorraine - there are no dumb questions. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Yes it is Walter. Another dumb question. Who is Walter? Lorraine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
German Icehorse trainer and guru, son of Walter Feldmann senior, been there, done that, won every icehorse competition there is in Europe Thanks Mic Lorraine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:40:04 -0800, you wrote: Another dumb question. Who is Walter? German Icehorse trainer and guru, son of Walter Feldmann senior, been there, done that, won every icehorse competition there is in Europe including several World Championships. Renowned for being outspoken rather than polite, used to have the reputation for some rather dodgy shoeing practices on competition horses, developed his own horse breed (the Aegidienberger, 3/8 Peruvian Paso, 5/8 Icelandic or vice versa, can't remember), sells lots of horses, makes training videos, writes books, gives lots of courses etc etc etc. Not thought well of generally on this list due to his teaching, training and riding methods. hth! Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Walter Jr is the trainer coming to teach the trainers course in the US which is why his name has come up on this list recently. He is extremely demanding of horses and IMO quite hard on them, however, I was seen as way to soft so it is all in the eyes of the beholder and what you are willing to do to achieve what you want. I think things are changing Robyn. very very slowly, but one by one, things are changing. Do you feel that way? Or do you feel it is hopeless. I do sometimes. Its like teaching rocket science to chimps, hard to explain something if they dont even see a problem! People who say being nice to a horse is an extreme that creates a spoiled monster. At a large boarding facility where I was once, there were like 200 horses there. The main trainer person used to tell everyone they shouldnt give their horses treats, it caused horses to start biting. I was treating my horses like crazy. During my time there many many horses had biting incidents, but my horses never ever bite. Janice -- courage is being scared to death...and saddling up anyway--John Wayne
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Walter Jr is the trainer coming to teach the trainers course in the US which is why his name has come up on this list recently. He is extremely demanding of horses and IMO quite hard on them, however, I was seen as way to soft so it is all in the eyes of the beholder and what you are willing to do to achieve what you want. To put that in perspective though, Cary and I were considering breeding a few Icelandic's after meeting the lovely horses that Anneliese has at Unicorn Valley. She didn't have any more mares to sell at the time after I bought Sina, so she suggested that we travel to visit Robyn, who would have plenty of horses for us to check out. We did, and Robyn paired Cary and me with their trainer, Christine Schwartz, for the 3-4 days that we were in BC. Had Robyn paired me with someone who trains like what I see in Walter Feldman's videos, I would not currently own 20 Icelandic Horses, no doubt about it. I've sent in so many pictures of my good friend Shirley, who helps me with my horses about once a week, so I think the list knows how gentle and quiet she is with the horses, even those people who've never met her. While we were at the Icelandic Horse Farm, Cary paid Christine a wonderful compliment - he called her the German Shirley. :) If we'd wanted horses that had to be trained via strong-armed tactics, I wouldn't have traveled across the continent to find more of this wonderful, gentle breed. I'm so happy that the first people I talked about in conjunction with training/breeding Icelandics were Anneliese and Christine. (Coincidentally, both German, and both very gentle and intuitive!) Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 10:23:44 -0600, you wrote: I think things are changing Robyn. very very slowly, but one by one, things are changing. Do you feel that way? Or do you feel it is hopeless. I do sometimes. I know I'm not Robyn, but I think it's becoming more and more polarized between those of us who are thinking riders and those who want to win competitions at any price. I'm not sure how much effect - if any - we have had, or will ever have - on the dedicated competition people where it seems things just keep getting harder and harder for the horses. : ( While many of us on the list like to take credit for some of the positive changes (such as they are) I personally don't think any of the movers and shakers in Icelandics in Europe are the slightest bit bothered one way or the other by what you lot over there, and us on our little island, say on the internet about Icelandics. I really think the answer, if there is one, lies in more mainstream condemnation from the equine world as a whole, particularly in Europe - like the article in Cavallo which caused a nice little storm in the Icelandic world over here. Judy, when that article is complete, I think it would be well worth while sending it to a few of the ordinary horse magazines rather than just preaching to the converted (though I still want it for STP please! ; )) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this? / Feldmann
rather than polite, used to have the reputation for some rather dodgy shoeing practices on competition horses, developed his own horse breed sells lots of horses, makes training videos, writes books, gives lots of courses etc etc etc. Not thought well of generally on this list due to his teaching, training and riding methods. Isn't it amazing that he would be brought in by the USIHC to teach here? I mean, use plain old common sense in watching his horses and riders ride, and anyone can see the unnaturalness of it. BTW, from the comments, you can see that people outside of the breed can easily see how rough he is. So... the USIHC supports manufactured gaits? This is supposed to be (and promoted as) a natural horse. Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On 31/01/2008, Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure how much effect - if any - we have had, or will ever have - on the dedicated competition people where it seems things just keep getting harder and harder for the horses. : ( The problem is that to the rest of the world, that type of riding paints us all with the same brush...the whole breed becomes tainted. I have absolutely no doubt that it will come to a screeching halt someday, much like what just happened in the TW world. I'm told that FEIF is working hard at solving the rough riding issue. However, to me, a simple solution would be to disqualify riders and horses practising that type of ridingperiod. So there must be other reasons for this taking a long time to solve. Maybe too many conflict of interest issues between judges and riders or horses??? I don't know, I'm just guessing. Which is why judges should never have any personal gain in the outcome of any competition. I'm not saying that's happening, I'm just trying to determine reasons for this issue taking so long to solve. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this? / Feldmann
Walter Jr is the trainer coming to teach the trainers course in the US which is why his name has come up on this list recently. He is extremely demanding of horses and IMO quite hard on them, horses that had to be trained via strong-armed tactics This is really sad for the breed. My gosh, compare Nanna's natural gait video to the videos of these professional or certified trainers. So, how did we get to the point of having trainers strong-arm the Icelandic Horses into gaits? Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this? / Feldmann
So, how did we get to the point of having trainers strong-arm the Icelandic Horses into gaits? Machismo? After all, the Icelandic show world is still dominated by men. I guess real men (said with much sarcasm) don't like to admit that they are riding sweet, gentle, easy-going, easy-to-train ponies... :) Oh N! These are fiery steeds that must be conquered by MEN! (Gag me.) Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.17/1252 - Release Date: 1/30/2008 8:51 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Hi Mic, I know I'm not Robyn, but I think it's becoming more and more polarized between those of us who are thinking riders and those who want to win competitions at any price. This is so true. If you look at Klaus Balkenhol and the Xenophen club it is anti Rollkur etc and the distance between the two groups seems to just grow greater. I'm not sure how much effect - if any - we have had, or will ever have - on the dedicated competition people where it seems things just keep getting harder and harder for the horses. : ( In the 70's Linda did not like what she saw in the hunter/jumper; Arab halter etc show world - shock spurs, cattle prods for halter horses; tacks in nosebands; poling and tripping horses over fences; injecting halter horses with various drugs etc etc etc - it can go on and on. We actually considered writing an expose but realized that all that would do is polarize the horse world and probably not have a very big impact on horses. For Linda developing the TTEAM work and showing people a)pain, fear and fear of pain are the primary cause of misbehaviour ; b) seeing horses from the horses point of view c) how to improve performance by reducing pain and changing patterns of movement. Taking a less polarizing route, even though it took a long time for people to start to see horses from this perspective, is coming in some areas and not in others. We just did the best we could to 'model' treatment of horses, of all breeds and disciplines, rather than just criticize. And generally people who want to show do so because they like the competition and would like to 'win'. I see many competitive people that just stop showing when they see what happens to so many horses 'to win a ribbon' and work towards making horses more comfortable and having a better relationship with their people. Once of the challenges is that the horse business is a tough one and it is the show world that brings in the high prices for horses (of all breeds and disciplines). It is not easy to make a living in the horse world (unless you a marketing dynamo and then there can be a lose of integrity IMO in an effort to keep meeting the income target - just like any business). So here is one dilemma - the prices of Icelandics from breeders (who can't afford to work at a huge lose) is higher (having people working for you fulltime training and showing people horses, advertising etc). People don't want to pay higher prices so how long can people stay in business. The show world people are willing to pay high prices to have a horse that will win, and at what price is that to the horse. While many of us on the list like to take credit for some of the positive changes (such as they are) I personally don't think any of the movers and shakers in Icelandics in Europe are the slightest bit bothered one way or the other by what you lot over there, and us on our little island, say on the internet about Icelandics. I would agree with you Mic, although I am sure others will disagree. I think comes down to a person's perspective on what is abuse, and what is training and what your goals are with your own animals. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:01:38 -0500, you wrote: While many of us on the list like to take credit for some of the positive changes (such as they are) I personally don't think any of the movers and shakers in Icelandics in Europe are the slightest bit bothered one way or the other by what you lot over there, and us on our little island, say on the internet about Icelandics. I think talking about the movers and shakers in Iceland (a country of only 250,000 humans) is a little funny. Well yes, so do I, which is why I didn't talk about movers and shakers in Iceland, but in Icelandics in Europe, if you read the paragraph you quoted properly. Equine/human population of Europe? Don't know offhand but a hell of a lot more than Charlotte. name it. I don't buy the argument that we on the list are a small entity in the Icelandic world. You are of course entitled to your opinion. all the best Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?- Change to Change
While many of us on the list like to take credit for some of the positive changes (such as they are) I personally don't think any of the movers and shakers in Icelandics in Europe are the slightest bit bothered one way or the other by what you lot over there, and us on our little island, say on the internet about Icelandics. Deep and solid change takes time - as frustrating as it is. I don't think we are going to change the minds of the people deeply embedded in the world of show Icelandics but I do feel there is good being done in those people on the periphery that might go either way - depending on their influence. As these people see the light the numbers will start to weigh further and further into the positive side - then we will see more change in a bigger scope - it is so hard to keep plugging, though, when the change happens so slowly and horses are suffering in the meantime.-- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them. - William Farley
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
I think comes down to a person's perspective on what is abuse, and what is training and what your goals are with your own animals. Exactly! I think we need to remember that we in the U.S. are a mere two generations away from a time when horses were treated a little less well than tractors are today. My husband's grandfather freighted with teams in Nebraska, wrapped in a buffalo rug to protect himself from blizzards.. In his life, horses were tools and I suspect when he finally got a truck, he breathed a sigh of relief and found a new home for his horses. That we can afford to provide good lives of our horses, free from what we would consider abuse, is a product of both education and affluence. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:19:56 -0800, you wrote: generations away from a time when horses were treated a little less well than tractors are today. I think Maria treats her tractor rather better than she treats me. ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
The problem is that to the rest of the world, that type of riding paints us all with the same brush...the whole breed becomes tainted. Oh Wanda, I have missed your incredible talent for those succinct one-liners! As usual, you have summed up the situation precisely. That's exactly it. Mic Rushen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . . . so many horse people don't take them seriously, and second, they are often not ridden that well, in drop nosebands/shanked bits etc, so genuine horsemen dismiss them as either wild and uncontrolable, or dismiss the riders as useless (!). I think the uncontrollable pony image is definitely a valid concern. When these horses are shown in such excessive control bits and tack, coupled with the *way* they are shown, it DOES create the picture of the barely trainable, containable mount. Which is just so ludicrious considering how EASY Icelandics are to work with and train.It's like the show world goes out of its way to foster the complete opposite impression of how the breed REALLY is. This does make one wonder if it all doesn't go back to the fact adults are riding ponies, you know? I don't *think* it's that, more a lack of education of judges generally, judges coming to expect the usual (for today) standard of riding, and those judges who DO recognise it and mark it down not being asked back to judge I imagine such brave souls are also ridiculed and treated as if they know nothing too -- what an irony! I think if FEIF really wants to be for the breed, they need to bite the bullet and take a much, much stronger stand against abuses in the show ring. As Wanda said, make REAL penalities for the guilty, not just a little card handed out . . . -- Renee M. in Michigan
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?- Change to Change
I don't think we are going to change the minds of the people deeply embedded in the world of show Icelandics but I do feel there is good being done in those people on the periphery that might go either way - depending on their influence. I agree Laree.I think the goal is not so much to change the minds of those who have invested and entrenched themselves so completely in the poor horsemanship of the breed, and whose attitudes and minds cannot possibly be changed. Just let those folks die off (so to speak) while concentrating one's efforts on ending the ignorance so there is no one to replace them when they fade away from the scene. -- Renee M. in Michigan
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
I think Maria treats her tractor rather better than she treats me. Well I don't think I'll be asking Bruce to choose between me and the tractor - unless this continued winter weather REALLY gets to me. We do have a son in Maui. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On 31/01/2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh Wanda, I have missed your incredible talent for those succinct one-liners! As usual, you have summed up the situation precisely. That's exactly it. Well...I miss your 'snorts'. Nice to have you back. BTW...I'm getting too old to beat around the bush. I'll be 50 within a few months...and I just don't see an advantage to being subtle (actually I'm not sure I ever was). I can't be bothered to read between the lines anymore. All I know is, I'm extremely thankful for all the great people involved with the Icelandic horse. When ever I get really discouraged I just go out and spend time with my little herd. I'm very very VERY thankful for digital cameras and all the little videos we've seeng lately. All these subtle little gaits that we can view and study and comment on. Great stuff. I can hardly wait for better weather. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
BTW...I'm getting too old to beat around the bush. I'll be 50 within a few months...and I just don't see an advantage to being subtle You are a spring chicken. Lorraine Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[IceHorses] Who is this?
Who is this rider? I don't suppose it matters. I wouldn't know him anyway. It's interesting to read a few of the comments. They have a real bullying tone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdnQXCUnspU When I was a kid, I had a little pony trip like this and I immediatly got off and checked her over. She had scraped her knees quite badly and had even taken a little chunk out of her nose. I walked her back home. -- Wanda Saskatchewan Canada
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdnQXCUnspU One of the previous comments that got lost in the shuffle: im not saying the weight is the issue or the size of the rider. God forgive me for being the only one here who cares about a horses well being Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Who is this rider? I don't suppose it matters. I wouldn't know him anyway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdnQXCUnspU It looks like Walter Feldman to me, but I'm not sure. When I was a kid, I had a little pony trip like this and I immediately got off and checked her over. She had scraped her knees quite badly and had even taken a little chunk out of her nose. I walked her back home. I guess horses and ponies can trip over about anything, but I'd be checking for a reason for a trip that big, especially on what seems to be flat, groomed track. The worst horse we ever had to trip was Big Mac. For the first year or two we had him, as he was recovering from his Big Lick days, he'd trip over about anything. Once his feet were back in balance, not too long, the tripping stopped. I can't say for sure that's the issue with this horse, but anytime I see one trip this badly, I wonder if the horse is lame, or if his feet are way too long, or way out of balance. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1250 - Release Date: 1/29/2008 10:20 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On 30/01/2008, Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess horses and ponies can trip over about anything, but I'd be checking for a reason for a trip that big, especially on what seems to be flat, groomed track. If I recall correctly we were ripping across the front lawn, up onto the driveway which had a little ditch and down she went. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Bruce, who hasn't ridden since about 1963, wants to know Why does he have him pulled up so short? I do have a question about the stumble. When Bev has a horse stumble (and eventually one will) she takes up on the reins to help the horse to regain his footing. When I have a horse stumble (and eventually one will) I let him have his head to regain balance. She certainly has ridden many more miles and horses than I have. Is she right? Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
It looks like Walter Feldman to me, but I'm not sure. Sounds like his voice. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On Jan 30, 2008 9:03 PM, Wanda Lauscher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you think? I think that it depends on the horse. ;) On very balanced horses I grab mane and give them their heads. Especially strong minded balanced horses, if they're trail savvy then they know far better how to regain their footing. On young, poorly balanced, or horses that like to have a little feel I try to maintain the same level of contact I had before the stumble. Some horses tend to spook themselves when they stumble, and having a light contact when they come back up is good, otherwise the situation can get out of hand quickly. I personally would rather have a horse that doesn't require a lot of handholding and can figure out how to take care of themselves. Steph -- Brutality begins where skill ends. Correctly understood, work at the lunge line is indispensable for rider and horse from the very beginning through the highest levels. Von Niendorff
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
To me, yanking on the reins is a gut reaction. What do you think? I think you're right and the rider in the video is not only yanking on the horse's reins, he seems to be issuing some kind of a correction. Again, I can't understand the language, but I don't think he's saying Oh, you poor thing, here let me help you to your feet. I think the reason I try to allow my horses to find their own balance when they trip on rough ground, roots, rocks or whatever is that I caused a very nice Thoroughbred mare to have a very bad fall. A friend and I were riding down a slippery embankment to ford a creek in order to start off on a trail ride. My mare slipped and over-reacted and I jerked her with the right rein as I baled off over the right side. This caused her to turn a complete somersault. We could see the mud track - up her nose, up her neck, over the top of the saddle, over her rump. Thankfully, she was not injured and we went on with our ride, but my reaction sure caused a nasty wreck. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
On 30/01/2008, Nancy Sturm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bruce, who hasn't ridden since about 1963, wants to know Why does he have him pulled up so short? There is quite a ewe neck apparent in that riding style isn't there? Now, if a horse is ridden in that fashion, that also means that the back is dropped, which means the front end goes up (lift)...and the hind end tends to look a bit straggly to me for lack of a better description.. I do have a question about the stumble. When Bev has a horse stumble (and eventually one will) she takes up on the reins to help the horse to regain his footing. When I have a horse stumble (and eventually one will) I let him have his head to regain balance. She certainly has ridden many more miles and horses than I have. Is she right? Riding many more miles isn't nessarily a badge of honour if they've all been miles using bad habits. I don't know Nancy, but it's a good question to consider. If I had an independent seat and wasn't hanging on the reins for support, I think I would tend to give the horse his head However, if I didn't have an independent seat, I might tend to yard on the reins simply to keep my balance... To me, yanking on the reins is a gut reaction. What do you think? Wanda
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Bruce, who hasn't ridden since about 1963, wants to know Why does he have him pulled up so short? Good question. If the horse can't use his head to help with his balance...and if his head is held high, then it seems natural to me that the horse can't see where he's going. And if he can't see well, maybe even a tiny stone can be enough to trip him up. I do have a question about the stumble. When Bev has a horse stumble (and eventually one will) she takes up on the reins to help the horse to regain his footing. When I have a horse stumble (and eventually one will) I let him have his head to regain balance. You're right in that sometimes horses just stumble for no real reason, so I don't mean to imply there is a huge problem with every stumble - only that it would make me ask a few questions. (I know that Feldman sells horses, so I look at this as I'd look at a horse I might want to buy...) Honestly, my horses don't stumble enough that I have a plan for what to do. I generally just grab some mane, to stay on, and let the horse work it out. My instincts tell me that trying to stay steady myself is probably the best thing I could do for them. I'm not sure that taking up contact is going to help them? Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.16/1250 - Release Date: 1/29/2008 10:20 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
I think you're right and the rider in the video is not only yanking on the horse's reins, he seems to be issuing some kind of a correction. Again, I can't understand the language, but I don't think he's saying Oh, you poor thing, here let me help you to your feet. That's not what I'd guess he's saying either - not that I understand German swear words... Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
That's not what I'd guess he's saying either - not that I understand German swear words... I don't think they're in German! :o) Cheryl Icelandic Sheepdogs Icelandic Horses www.sandcreekicelandics.com
Re: [IceHorses] Who is this?
I think the reason I try to allow my horses to find their own balance when they trip on rough ground, roots, rocks or whatever is that I caused a very nice Thoroughbred mare to have a very bad fall. A friend and I were riding down a slippery embankment to ford a creek in order to start off on a trail ride. My mare slipped and over-reacted and I jerked her with the right rein as I baled off over the right side. This caused her to turn a complete somersault. We could see the mud track - up her nose, up her neck, over the top of the saddle, over her rump. That's the thing - stumbles always catch me by surprise, and honestly, I hope I never ride enough klutzy horses that I get used to them, such that I can plan for them! So, assuming there will always be MY surprise to deal with, I don't know how on earth I can know in that instant what's best for my horse. I feel like the best thing I can do for my horse's balance in that moment is to try to balance myself, and let him/her balance him/herself. About two years after I broke my back, my nerve damage was almost recovered, and my confidence was coming back pretty well. I was riding Skjoni on the trail - we'd only had him a few weeks. The trail was pretty new, and I was in front of a couple of friends, who were probably riding Falki and Reddi. Skjoni stepped into a stump hole that had been covered over by leaves. Both of his front legs went down into the hole up to his chest. I absolutely was amazed - my balance was good enough that I stayed centered over his back, and god love a sure-footed Icelandic - he didn't really break stride from his brisk walk. I stayed in place and he didn't miss a lick. I KNOW if I'd tried to do something to help, I could only have made it worse. Skjoni was quite capable of taking care of himself - and of me too. I think that was THE moment when I knew I had recovered - physically and emotionally - from my bad fall. Karen Thomas, NC
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this?
Hi Who is this rider? I don't suppose it matters. I wouldn't know him anyway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdnQXCUnspU It looks like Walter Feldman to me, but I'm not sure. Yes it is Walter. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Who is this?
I generally just grab some mane, to stay on, and let the horse work it out. My instincts tell me that trying to stay steady myself is probably the best thing I could do for them. I'm not sure that taking up contact is going to help them? Scooter fell to his knees one time and it happened so fast I just hung on. I thought about hopping off but before I knew it he stood up. I also checked his legs. He had mud up his nose. He really took a dive. Lorraine Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
[IceHorses] Who is Nevzorov
Who is Nevzorov and what would he think of icelandic-style riding and training: http://horsesforlife.com/WhoIsAlexanderNevzorov/ http://iceryder.net/nevzorov.html Judy http://iceryder.net http://clickryder.com
