Re: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
I've had several conversations about pasturing the ponies with the other girl I know who bought an Icelandic from Niels West. All his Icelandics were on beautiful large rolling grass-covered hills. Here in Southern Oregon, their Lina had to be pulled off grass several times this summer because she was really blimping up. Our two mares are on what is essentially a dry lot. We both wonder how the horses could maintain a healthy weight at the breeder's and not here. Maybe it's true that if grass is all they ever experience, they only eat what they need. It would scare me, however. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 06:29:30 -0800, you wrote: Maybe it's true that if grass is all they ever experience, they only eat what they need. It would scare me, however. Our youngsters and brood mares all have large (for the UK!) areas of grass, moor and heathland to range in, and ad-lib haylage in the winter. They are well-covered but not fat. BUT!!! this is pasture that has never been improved, never had fertiliser near it, which is full of herbs, wildflowers and weeds as well as grass. They lose some weight in the winter (they do not get any grain, though they have salt and mineral licks). I only once had an Icelandic that had been allowed free range on proper pasture (40 acres of dairy cow pasture). She was actually NOT that fat - but she had had recurring chronic laminitis for 5 years (her owner could not understand why she was so often lame and thought she had damaged her shoulder, or had a back problem, or something she was one of our first rescue horses, 20 years ago). Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
I only once had an Icelandic that had been allowed free range on proper pasture (40 acres of dairy cow pasture). She was actually NOT that fat - but she had had recurring chronic laminitis for 5 years (her owner could not understand why she was so often lame and thought she had damaged her shoulder, or had a back problem, or something she was one of our first rescue horses, 20 years ago). Yes, the fatness of a horse can be a good clue, a good warning sign, but it's certainly not fool proof. Many older horses who founder from Cushing's are actually pretty thin - my farrier estimated that maybe 25-35% of the founder cases he works on are with very thin horses. The majority may be overweight, but certainly a notable percentage aren't. I'm convinced that the root causes of these situations is internal to the horse, and sadly we can't always see the risk factors before it's too latespeaking from experience, I'm afraid. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: 11/1/2007 6:01 AM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
Yes. I think Lina is 5, Tosca 4 and Yrsa 3, but the question for us has been how he could manage an entire herd (I think 30 or so) on open pasture and not have trouble managing weight. There was every age there from foals to mares and one gelding in their teens. All appeared to be carrying a normal weight. They had, by the way, no shelters either. There was a sturdy barn with stalls, but horses were only brought in if they needed some kind of special handilng. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 10:50:29 -0400, you wrote: Many older horses who founder from Cushing's In the UK, there's a real difference between laminitis and founder - is it the same in the USA, or do you use the terms interchangeably? Here, founder is a specific term only used when refering to a horse which has sudden, acute laminitis resulting in rather severe pedal bone rotation (often as a result of getting onto lush pasture or breaking into the feed shed), while laminitis is a more cover-all term used for the chronic or the acute condition. In my experience, the vast majority of laminitic ponies over here have originally got laminitis through being overweight. And mostly, they got to be fat in the first place by the usual route - too much food, not enough exercise. Sigh. I know that one (or maybe I have Cushings??? ; )) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
RE: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
Yes. I think Lina is 5, Tosca 4 and Yrsa 3, but the question for us has been how he could manage an entire herd (I think 30 or so) on open pasture and not have trouble managing weight. I've never seen a herd of free grazing Icelandic's that didn't have some serious weight problems in the mature horses...if you look closely enough. In fact, it's hard to find a herd of restricted-grazing Icelandics where at least a few have weight problems. Sometimes the fur and manes hide a lot. And of course, there are a few lines that just don't seem to have the tendencies to obesity - Trausti and Eitill stay reasonably slim, and even have to be supplemented sometimes when some others of ours are fat. We've joked that about the only thing left to do for Sina is to stop worming her... Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: 11/1/2007 6:01 AM
Re: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:01:05 -0400, you wrote: I've never seen a herd of free grazing Icelandic's that didn't have some serious weight problems in the mature horses... In our lot, only youngsters, brood mares and oldies get free grazing. The riding horses (or ones of that sort of age, mares who are not in foal etc) are restricted, especially in the spring. I was looking at one of the fields today. Four horses, total years between them 111 ! Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Re: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
I was looking at one of the fields today. Four horses, total years between them 111 ! I have a herd here that between the 4 have 104 years! They get pretty much unrestricted grazing. Three of them (mares) come in when the boys go out. The gelding can go out with the boys and chooses to about 1/2 the time. Cheryl Sand Creek Icelandics Icelandic Horses Icelandic Sheepdogs website: www.toltallyice.com
RE: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
In the UK, there's a real difference between laminitis and founder - is it the same in the USA, or do you use the terms interchangeably? They are different, but related terms. Laminitis is the root disease, actually a symptom of something else being awry, where the lamina become inflamed. Founder is actually the rotation of the coffin bone, which doesn't ALWAYS occur after laminitis, but often (usually?) does. The two terms are often used interchangeably in the common vernacular though, and that doesn't bother me. while laminitis is a more cover-all term used for the chronic or the acute condition. I think the suffix itis refers to inflammation, doesn't it? In my experience, the vast majority of laminitic ponies over here have originally got laminitis through being overweight. And mostly, they got to be fat in the first place by the usual route - too much food, not enough exercise. No, that's not exactly what research is showing. The fact that the horses were overweight was probably not literally the cause of the laminitis. Both the overweight condition AND the resulting laminitis stem from the same metabolic condition - research is just now getting into unraveling all these root causes, so I suspect that today's theories will continue to be refined for many years. If it were just the overweight and lack of exercise, many more horses would founder than do, even in the same herds. Think of it like diabetes. Some people simply won't get diabetes no matter what...but if someone has the tendency towards it, they can certainly prolong its onset, possibly even permanently, with diet and exercise. However, we also know some relatively thin people who are diabetics. My dad was only a few pounds overweight when he was diagnosed with Type II diabetes when he was 47 years old. He was one of the most physically fit and active people I've ever known, but he still came down with diabetes. I'm convinced it was just going to happen to him. He was, however, able to control it with just diet and exercise for about 20 years, but after that, he had to go on insulin. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: 11/1/2007 6:01 AM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
In the UK, there's a real difference between laminitis and founder - is it the same in the USA, or do you use the terms interchangeably? Technically, yes there is a difference in the terms here too. But they are often used interchangeably, especially by laymen. Cheryl Sand Creek Icelandics Icelandic Horses Icelandic Sheepdogs website: www.toltallyice.com
Re: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
... stop worming her ... that's almost as bad about our joking about leaving the blankets off the fat horses so that they would expend more energy keeping warm. Wonder if that would work for me. Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
We have 50 acres more or less fenced for 7-8 horses (2 Belgians, 2-3 Icelandics, 1 Paint, 1 Paso Fino, 1 Fjord). There's a small barn/run-in surrounded by a circular horse wire fence, it's about an acre (we call it the hub). At the opposite end of the circle (inside) and downhill from the barn is a spring fed stock tank. Around the stock tank and up top next to the barn where the hay basket feeders are, we've placed crusher run rock . As I mentioned before, we have Stable-grid under the gates and as the barn/stall flooring. On either side of the hub are 20+ acre, very hilly pastures with gates into the hub. We let them run in one section for about 1-3 months then switch them to the other side. About 1/2 of the area is pasture (fescue, orchard grass, clover), not irrigated or maintained other that mowing some of the more noxious weeds before they go to seed. The other part is rock, and steep, brushy, woods. They just graze April-May through Sept. or October when the pasture quits growing. After that they get close to free feed hay and graze the dried grasses, except during the occasional times we have snow. The Paso Fino is the only one who's had trouble (one bout of laminitis). She wears a grazing muzzle almost full-time in the Spring and Fall, and nights the rest of the time but still benefits from exercise with the herd. My Fjord got chunky this year and will probably wear a muzzle 1/2 day Spring through Fall, although I'll be riding her next year and the additional exercise will help. Cherie Western North Carolina Lilja, Roka (Icelandics)and Tyra (Fjord)
Re: [IceHorses] Should I mow?/large pastures
On either side of the hub are 20+ acre, very hilly pastures with gates into the hub. We let them run in one section for about 1-3 months then switch them to the other side. I know a couple of people that use the hub set up and it is very functional - a really nice set up if you can do it with your land. It gives you several options and a lot of ease of handlingl. -- Laree in NC Doppa Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the S gang) When you're young and you fall off a horse, you may break something. When you're my age and you fall off, you splatter - Roy Rogers
