RE: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
Dear Jesus, thank you for putting Janice's knees and face so far apart Ok, great here comes the Janice and Wanda comedy hour...but please...while I enjoyed the battle of the pictures last week, but we aren't going to have dueling You Tube videos on this topic, are we? Please...NO Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date: 11/24/2007 5:58 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
On 25/11/2007, Janice McDonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > and just for your information, my daughter left her laptop and it has > a builtin webcam and i was trying to video my nekkid bosoms for > youtube but i couldnt get my face and my knees in all in one screen. > janice Dear Jesus, thank you for putting Janice's knees and face so far apart Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
On Nov 25, 2007 9:21 AM, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Not that you are either middle-aged, or menopausal, Janice. I'm sure your > "breed" doesn't have menopause, and your kind are eternally young, right? ;) > > > > Karen Thomas, NC > and just for your information, my daughter left her laptop and it has a builtin webcam and i was trying to video my nekkid bosoms for youtube but i couldnt get my face and my knees in all in one screen. janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
> Not that you are either middle-aged, or menopausal, Janice. I'm sure your > "breed" doesn't have menopause, and your kind are eternally young, right? ;) it only happens if i dont get a trace clip so i can vent. janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
"your kind are eternally young"It's the barrels of fish she's been known to eat - or perhaps the salt they're packed in. Nancy pass the fish Sturm
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
On 11/25/07, Kaaren Jordan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I just find it interesting that the low T3/T4 occurs every year for 14 years > during the Fall time & rights itself during the other times of the year & > wonder if others have observed anything similar. That's interesting, Kaaren, and I think significant to know All I care about > is that I have found strategies to help him so he feels better during this > time that haven't caused any negative effects & are economical. And isn't that what matters - :-)) Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley
RE: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
>>>I have lethargy and too much hair on my chin this time of year also. Ok, but that's SO different, Janice. It certainly isn't a typical internationally known middle-aged menopausal woman condition, right? It ONLY occurs in the "breed" of women born in the panhandle of Florida, just south of the Alabama border, and only in the fall, I'm sure Hehehe! Not that you are either middle-aged, or menopausal, Janice. I'm sure your "breed" doesn't have menopause, and your kind are eternally young, right? ;) Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date: 11/24/2007 5:58 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
my Fox is lethargic, slightly off feed, and nervous when I took him out to saddle and ride, (he's not ordinarily a jumpy horse), then I saw him quidding so he's got a mouth/teeth issue and I have to have the tooth vet out. I have lethargy and too much hair on my chin this time of year also. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
That's interesting - in human hyperthyroid cases, low t3/t4 often gives excess hair growth and tiredness Yes, but you have to be very careful in assigning cause and effect. (Didn't I just say that maybe yesterday?) There's some link (sort of vague) between thyroid levels and IR. That's why so many vets looked to treat horses (like my Holly) with ThyroL when they founder. (Ok...literally, Holly didn't "founder" since her rotation was ultimately less than 1 degree, but there's no such verb for laminitis that I know of in this sense. I can't say that Holly "laminitisated".) Now, they think that Holly probably didn't have a thyroid problem, but that the ThyroL acted as a "diet pill" to control her weight. Now, looking back, it's not necessarily a good idea to tamper with the thyroid function to control weight, but in Holly's case it worked well. She's been comfortably founder-free after those two attacks over 10 years ago. Holly was never particularly lethargic, before or after her Thyroid treatment. Well, finally after she reached 20, but heck, I'm pretty lethargic compared to what I was like in my 20's when I was a bundle of energy. A lot (the majority) of Cushing's horses have long coats, and they are lethargic. Other breeds of ponies are known for their long coats, especially in winter, but are not necessarily considered "lethargic." My Icelandic foals are born with really long coats, and get them every fall - they aren't lethargic. The best I can tell, some hair coat growth patterns are genetic. Some changes in hair-growth patterns may indicate problems. We need to know the difference. I'm sure you can find Icelandic horses with odd thyroid levels. You can certainly find other breed horses with odd thyroid levels. One other thing: many Cushing's horses have long coats, and also have IR. Did you ever think that IR/Cushing's attacks are actually pretty common in the fall? Sundance's weight loss and "founder" came in September or October. We didn't check his thyroid that I remember. (Maybe we did? If so, it wasn't terribly off, if at all.) We DID check him for Cushing's and he was positive. Anyway, I just threw out a lot of symptoms. Of, these, tell me which is cause, and which is effect? Judging from the ongoing research I read about Cushings/IR/Metabolic Syndrome, I don't think the researchers who live and breathe this subject have all of this clear in their minds. They see some connections, but aren't precisely sure what the connections are. Why do I care? Because every darned time we write something off as "just an Icey thing", like it's just harmless, like our horses are SOOO different, we take a chance on missing a BIG problem, one that may be treatable. That's NOT doing our horses any favors. We know that IR, Cushing's and other Metabolic Syndrome conditions happen within our breed. On the other hand, we may miss the obvious way to handle the long coats in most of our climates: clip the horses as needed. If we clip the horses and the lethargy goes away (as it has with all of mine), then problem is solved. If we clip the horses and the lethargy is still notable, maybe it's time to call the vet. Two separate issues - neither of which are unique to Icelandic's. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.6/1150 - Release Date: 11/24/2007 5:58 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:28:08 -0800, you wrote: >When I first addded him to our family 14 years ago, I >thought something was wrong with him & drew blood incl a T3/T4. It was low >for that period then came up. That's interesting - in human hyperthyroid cases, low t3/t4 often gives excess hair growth and tiredness Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
On 11/23/07, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > my mom thought long hair would zap your strength even tho she believed > the samson stry in the bible where cutting his hair zapped his strength. > But then she also believed green tennis shoes would kill > > > Oh my gosh, Janice, you're too much. Now...I can honestly say it: "I read > somewhere that green tennis shoes will kill you." > > > Snopes is going to have to add a special page, just for Janice-isms. :) > i always tell people that and they always laugh, then one day I told an old man and he said "well,you know when the first green dyes came out some were made from toxic plants and some people died from it." So its like my mother also said "someday you are gonna realize i wasnt so dumb after all." Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
>>>Our Vet says he's never heard of horses eating fish, but with Icey's anything is possible!!<<< Aren't you guys afraid the horse is gonna get sick feeding them weird stuff? My two love bread but I shy away from that too. I am to frightened of colic I guess.
RE: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
my mom thought long hair would zap your strength even tho she believed the samson stry in the bible where cutting his hair zapped his strength. But then she also believed green tennis shoes would kill Oh my gosh, Janice, you're too much. Now...I can honestly say it: "I read somewhere that green tennis shoes will kill you." Snopes is going to have to add a special page, just for Janice-isms. :) Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: 11/22/2007 6:55 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
my mom thought long hair would zap your strength even tho she believed the samson stry in the bible where cutting his hair zapped his strength. But then she also believed green tennis shoes would kill you. Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
> > Oh yeah, that's me! > > Is that a picture of you Karen? I pictured you differently. What is that??? Lorraine Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. http://overview.mail.yahoo.com/
RE: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
>>> Or possibly you're getting your winter coat? ; ) Oh yeah, that's me! Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: 11/22/2007 6:55 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
>>> Oh come on, how the hell am I supposed to carry on a fight with only THAT to work with? Sorry, Mic, it's the best I can do today. Maybe I'm still lethargic from all the turkey yesterday...or maybe it's just that the holiday season is here! ;) Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.4/1146 - Release Date: 11/22/2007 6:55 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:54:49 -0500, you wrote: >Once I saw her energy return, I didn't feel so bad about asking her to >exercise. Oh come on, how the hell am I supposed to carry on a fight with only THAT to work with? Hell, girl, you're losing your touch. ; ) Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
>>> I have to disagree if speaking about our lot (goodness, it's ages since we had a good disagreement! lol) Yep, this is LONG overdue...and darn it, almost petty, too. ;) >>> Even the clipped horses, on cool days, are more lethargic in september than in, say, march (when they have even more hair and it can be just as warm here). I hadn't really thought about the old "hair/energy-zapping" saying in a long time until last spring - late February, maybe? Sina had a little ongoing lameness and seemed lethargic - I was worried about her. The vet came out and did a fairly extensive lameness exam (no x-rays) and could see her little "bobbles" but advised me to work her through it. (The vet thought she'd possibly tweaked something during pregnancy/delivery.) The vet pointed out that I needed to do a generous clip job on her to work her - I'd done a minor trace clip on her the previous fall, but we could see that wasn't going to be enough. I clipped her that afternoon. It took a while to work through the lameness "bobbles" but we did and she's fine, but the lethargy improved immediately. That was a huge relief to me, because I was reading that the lethargy was associated with her feeling bad due to the lameness. Once I saw her energy return, I didn't feel so bad about asking her to exercise. I re-clipped a couple of others after that, and saw a similar change. I think I appreciate the value of clipping a little more every year. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 07:53:38 -0500, you wrote: >The ones who get clipped don't act that >way, unless I clip them too early, and too much coat grows back in >before cold weather. That blows the hair-growing-theory to me. I have to disagree if speaking about our lot (goodness, it's ages since we had a good disagreement! lol) Even the clipped horses, on cool days, are more lethargic in september than in, say, march (when they have even more hair and it can be just as warm here). Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
I have always ridden (not always by choice) horses that tended to be on the hot side. I think they're quieter when the weather is warmer. I'm thinking that horses might also be calmer/warmer when their coats begin to grow in the Fall and the days are still warm. And all those Thoroughbreds and my current TWH are why I love Icelandics. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
>> No, they really do eat herring sometimes. The farmers would stick a barrel out in the winter and the horses would help themselves. Years ago, my husband picked up a bucket in the feed room and saw a small mouse in the bottom. He has that universal overgrown-little-boy trait of seeing an opportunity to tease someone (usually me, sometimes one of our pets) in just about everything. On a whim, he turned around to the barn aisle to my old Quarter Horse who'd followed him into the barn, and he put the bucket under his nose - thinking he'd startle him and make him jump back. Wrong. Sundance slurped up the little mouse in about three nanoseconds, live, much to my horror - I don't think Sundance even saw what was in the bucket. I watched him like a hawk for several days (while Cary slept in the doghouse) but he was fine. Actually, everyone was fine except the mouse, but I was only worried about Sundance. (Otherwise, I'd probably be a widow - I was NOT happy with Cary!) That is a true story. However, from that incident, it does not logically follow to say that "Quarter Horses eat live mice." And it REALLY doesn't logically follow to say that QH "should" eat live mice... :) A lot of things happen in Iceland (or in Redneckville, USA) that horses survive, but that doesn't make them desirable. Gotta be careful when assigning cause versus effect. Karen Thomas, NC (Does that story qualify as a "one-rat study"?)
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
> And I have found some of them DO get more lethargic in the autumn (september, usually) when the main coat-growing is done. Just my own experience. Sure. But the "saga" is that they get lethargic because they are growing the hair, as if the process of growing hair is zapping their energy. My horses will act lethargic when they are HOT...regardless of the season, or whether the coat is actively coming in, or if we have an unusually hot day in January. The ones who get clipped don't act that way, unless I clip them too early, and too much coat grows back in before cold weather. That blows the hair-growing-theory to me. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:04:43 -0500, you wrote: >I believe those stories about the Icelandic horses eating herring back >in Iceland were "sagas", were they not? Part of the old >they're-not-ponies-they-have-narrower-windpipes-they-get-lethargic-when-they-grow-their > >-coats-in folklore. No, they really do eat herring sometimes. The farmers would stick a barrel out in the winter and the horses would help themselves. I've seen them do it. And I have found some of them DO get more lethargic in the autumn (september, usually) when the main coat-growing is done. Just my own experience. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
> > I believe those stories about the Icelandic horses > eating herring back > in Iceland were "sagas", were they not? Part of the > old > they're-not-ponies-they-have-narrower-windpipes-they-get-lethargic-when-they-grow-their > My husband read somewhere that they did eat fish in Iceland. I will ask him where he read that. Personally I like fritos with my tuna. I owned an white Arab that loved Fritos. LOL Lorraine Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
On Thu, Nov 22, 2007 at 05:04:43PM -0500, Karen Thomas wrote: > I believe those stories about the Icelandic horses eating herring back > in Iceland were "sagas", were they not? well, i know nothing about herring, but the bit about stjarni and the tuna fish was perfectly true. he's not nearly that gung ho for apples and carrots, or for that matter chicken salad. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
When I first read this thread, I honestly thought it was tongue in cheek, but I'm beginning to think otherwise! Let's just say that I'm not rushing out to buy fish for my horses...even if our resident nutritionist (a.k.a. Janice) says so. ;) I believe those stories about the Icelandic horses eating herring back in Iceland were "sagas", were they not? Part of the old they're-not-ponies-they-have-narrower-windpipes-they-get-lethargic-when-they-grow-their -coats-in folklore. Karen Thomas, NC
Re: [IceHorses] Re: bolting/eating fish
--- Kaaren Jordan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > My Icey fromIceland has a taste for fish as well. < When I first read this thread, I honestly thought it was tongue in cheek, but I'm beginning to think otherwise! Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
