Re: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
At 14:02 18/12/2000 +1030, Andrew Rutherford wrote: At 09:49 -0500 15/12/00, John C Klensin wrote: I don't think company names on badges are harmful, and they do help us identify each other (otherwise, we could carry the principle to the limits and leave the names off too, replacing them with randomly-assigned numbers). So what about replacing company names on badges with email addresses? That might allow one to infer company affiliation if the wearer lists an address with a company component. Given most of us know each other via email address, and may wish to follow up a "hallway conversation" with email, it's possibly more functional. Personally, I like having organizations on nametags. It is quite often the way in which I find out that old friends have changed jobs. -- Harald Tveit Alvestrand, [EMAIL PROTECTED] +47 41 44 29 94 Personal email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
The point of individuality is a good one. But this should be the choice of the person. They can write whatever they choose for the company. For many of us it is informative. At 02:02 PM 12/18/2000 +1030, Andrew Rutherford wrote: At 09:49 -0500 15/12/00, John C Klensin wrote: I don't think company names on badges are harmful, and they do help us identify each other (otherwise, we could carry the principle to the limits and leave the names off too, replacing them with randomly-assigned numbers). So what about replacing company names on badges with email addresses? That might allow one to infer company affiliation if the wearer lists an address with a company component. Given most of us know each other via email address, and may wish to follow up a "hallway conversation" with email, it's possibly more functional. Michael W. Condry Director, Internet Strategy 2111 N.E. 25th Ave. JF3-206 Hillsboro, OR 97124-5961 Phone: (503) 264-9019 FAX: (503) 264-3483 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
At 09:49 AM 12/15/00 -0500, John C Klensin wrote: where we work and what we do in our day jobs inevitably impacts our experience and perspective. and At 09:40 AM 12/15/00 -0800, Fred Baker wrote: I mention the corporate relationships of the Area Directors for a very simple reason. I think the companies that contribute the time of their employees to this activity are worthy of note. These two statements cover the issue thoroughly, for me. I believe our community is mature enough and independent enough to be capable of appreciating the contributions and noting the perspectives, without being unduly influenced during decision-making. d/ =-=-=-=-= Dave Crocker [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brandenburg Consulting www.brandenburg.com Tel: +1.408.246.8253, Fax: +1.408.273.6464
Re: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
At 09:49 -0500 15/12/00, John C Klensin wrote: I don't think company names on badges are harmful, and they do help us identify each other (otherwise, we could carry the principle to the limits and leave the names off too, replacing them with randomly-assigned numbers). So what about replacing company names on badges with email addresses? That might allow one to infer company affiliation if the wearer lists an address with a company component. Given most of us know each other via email address, and may wish to follow up a "hallway conversation" with email, it's possibly more functional.
Re: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
(I copy this to the poisson list, since I am somehow blocked from the IETF list). I am fully understand what your concern is. But, - what should those "corporate representative" do? - where should they go? The point is you dont, not in IETF. Either you are interested in the work you doing or you are not. If you are not interested in the work, then joining IETF for the sake of 'corporate representation' is not going to help the WG in anyway at all so why bother? -James Seng
Re: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
But in retrospect, one thing he said bothered me greatly. He mentioned there were representatives of some five hundred different organizations at this meeting. That too is impressive. But it's that word "representative" I find disquieting. We are here not as corporate representatives, but as individuals He also introduced the ADs as "name from employer" after the IAB had been introduced solely by name. Throw the bum out! :-)
Re: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
Hello: (I copy this to the poisson list, since I am somehow blocked from the IETF list). I am fully understand what your concern is. But, - what should those "corporate representative" do? - where should they go? best regards, -- Rahmat M. Samik-Ibrahim - VLSM-TJT - http://rms46.vlsm.org --- the father of internet (al gore) for IAB -- NOMCOM2000 John W Noerenberg II wrote: As a representative of of one of the co-hosts for this meeting, I am equally gratified and terrorized to have the distinction hosting the largest IETF meeting to date (I fully expect this meeting to be surpassed soon). Fred's summary of the diversity of the IETF was truly impressive. But in retrospect, one thing he said bothered me greatly. He mentioned there were representatives of some five hundred different organizations at this meeting. That too is impressive. But it's that word "representative" I find disquieting. We are here not as corporate representatives, but as individuals committed to building the best Internet we can. Becoming part of a working group means you leave your company badge at the door. As the Internet has become more and more a commercial place, and the setting for business and commerce, the pressure to bend the way the Internet works to one's particular advantage at the expense of others increases. This is not part of our heritage. It is not part of our Tao. We come together because the Internet belongs to no one country, or organization. Rather it exists for all. We can look forward to a Net which not only spans the Earth, but gives every person in every country, the opportunity and the means to learn from any other regardless of their home, their beliefs or their physical capabilities. It is a wonderful thing. And we must remember it is our responsibility to preserve and enhance it for those who will come after. -- john noerenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- If we admire the Net, should not a burden of proof fall on those who would change the basic assumptions that brought it about in the first place? -- David Brin, "The Transparent Society", 1998 --
RE: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
But it's that word "representative" I find disquieting. I second everything you said John. How does the IETF prevent a "RAMBUS" type scenario where a company sits in on IETF, copies the technologies, patents them, waits for everyone to adopt them, and then sues everyone for infringement? This is very concerning to me. I want so much to go hog wild with new ideas and work for IETF, but I don't want the work to be thrown against me in courts by a hidden observer claiming the work to be proprietary. The work done in IETF should be unpatentable... the question is.. is it? I am sure it's been discussed before, can someone point me to how the "RAMBUS" scenario is prevented? Regards, Kyle Lussier
Re: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
He also introduced the ADs as "name from employer" after the IAB had been introduced solely by name. I don't like the word "representatives" either. But employers who support employees' IESG and IAB participation certainly deserve to be recognized, since such an employee will spend a tremendous amount of "work time", and a non-trivial amount of travel money, on IESG or IAB activities. Keith
Re: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
At 3:34 PM -0800 12/14/00, John W Noerenberg II wrote: We are here not as corporate representatives, but as individuals committed to building the best Internet we can. Becoming part of a working group means you leave your company badge at the door. As the Internet has become more and more a commercial place, and the setting for business and commerce, the pressure to bend the way the Internet works to one's particular advantage at the expense of others increases. This is not part of our heritage. It is not part of our Tao. We come together because the Internet belongs to no one country, or organization. Rather it exists for all. We can look forward to a Net which not only spans the Earth, but gives every person in every country, the opportunity and the means to learn from any other regardless of their home, their beliefs or their physical capabilities. It is a wonderful thing. And we must remember it is our responsibility to preserve and enhance it for those who will come after. So let's change the way we're identified on the badges to NOT include organizational identity. And NOT include the organizational affiliation(s) on the published attendees list. As an adjunct to the above suggestion, how about ISOC offering to provide e-mail forwarding (ala IEEE) for IETF participants after some number of consecutive meetings attended...
Re: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:11:25 EST, Kyle Lussier said: How does the IETF prevent a "RAMBUS" type scenario where a company sits in on IETF, copies the technologies, patents them, waits for everyone to adopt them, and then sues everyone for infringement? They can't copy-and-patent the technology unless they have sufficiently deep pockets to deal with the inevitable prior-art lawsuits. -- Valdis Kletnieks Operating Systems Analyst Virginia Tech
Re: What is the IETF? -- A note of caution
Did we not just have this whole debate on the Poisson list or is this a new flavor? Ole Ole J. Jacobsen Editor and Publisher The Internet Protocol Journal Office of the CTO, Cisco Systems Tel: +1 408-527-8972 GSM: +1 415-370-4628 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Keith Moore wrote: He also introduced the ADs as "name from employer" after the IAB had been introduced solely by name. I don't like the word "representatives" either. But employers who support employees' IESG and IAB participation certainly deserve to be recognized, since such an employee will spend a tremendous amount of "work time", and a non-trivial amount of travel money, on IESG or IAB activities. Keith
