Re: [ilugd] Club bandwidth - Linux gurus - linux helplines
All I was saying was if some extra help could be extended to people who are new to Linux, it could make things easier for them. When I say extra help...I dont mean anything more than emailed solutions that list a stepwise procedure, instead of a referal to a manual that has several thousand things to confuse a beginner. OTOH, keep things in perspective.. he was asking for QoS. Hardly a beginner's topic, is it ? :) So what did you expect ? one of us coding a readymade script for him and saying here you go.. we will pretend it is still christmas ? :) He made out like he was the admin. So frankly speaking he should be used to reading manuals and getting what he wanted from them. Or if he is not the admin, his company should hire a competent guy. I think it is a bad idea to allow a guy who shirks from learning things to setup servers etc., and thus leave open mail relays and easily exploitable servers which get used to create a problem for other people.(not necessarily insinuating that *he* is one or not). You may have valid points but they are not applicable to the case in question. - Abhi ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Club bandwidth - linux gurus
On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 12:26, Raj Shekhar wrote: Hello! My 0.50 Rs addition to the thread Linux Guru == Someone who has read the manual my 0.25 Rs to this: Linux Guru = someone who refers to a manual to find a 'gur' or an insight into how to solve a problem or issue. Linux Expert = someone who reads the manual cover to cover. :-) LL ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Club bandwidth - linux gurus
My 0.50 Rs addition to the thread Linux Guru == Someone who has read the manual my 0.25 Rs to this: The thread seems to have an opposite effect. Contirbutions from gurus are reducing mail by mail. ;o) Linux Guru = someone who refers to a manual to find a 'gur' or an insight into how to solve a problem or issue. Linux Expert = someone who reads the manual cover to cover. Linux newbie = Tries to lift the manual. Fails miserably. Requests guru+expert to come and pour wisdumb. ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Club bandwidth - Linux gurus - linux helplines
amit soni wrote: I am not sure[ ;o) ] , but probably a dumbo's point of view is, that when 'she' asks the same question to a windows support tech and a Linux support tech the difference in the reply recevied is staggering! Yes, the difference is staggering. But there are many reasons for that. A lot of it is cultural. Not much of it can be generalised totally but maybe to some degree. Let me ask you something - have you seen beggars at the traffic points in Delhi? You must have seen that there are two kinds of people - one who gives alms to these beggars and ones who do not. Now those who do NOT give alms to the beggars are again of two kinds - ones who do not want to give their money to somebody, and ones who feel that giving money to these people will only make these people get dependent on this as a way of living. Let us consider this second class of non-paying people and those who pay. Why do the paying person pay? Because there is a sense of instant self-gratification. The person feels good for having helped the beggar through his/her misery and feels good from the thank yous that the beggar might give in return. However, this person doesnt care to think a bit more about the beggar. He doesnt care to think that ok - he provided money for the beggars lunch/dinner/etc. Then what? Where does the beggar get the next meal from? Obviously begging, because now that seems the easiest way out. The person who doesnt pay doesnt get any form of self-gratification. The beggar might make pitiful faces at him. His wife might call him an insensitive clod, maybe even a miser ;). But he knows inside that what he did was in the long-term interest of the beggar. If tomorrow the beggar finds that begging is not paying off, he will try to earn money in some other way - maybe take up pottery or something. If during this endeavour he needs an initial set of customers to help him start his profession, I am sure that this second kind of people would be happy to help him out there because they know that this beggar(who is no longer a beggar) is making an effort to get out of their situation. I am sure that you can draw the analogy, ofcourse I hope that you dont get offended by the comparison of beggars and newbies. There are good windows tech sites and mailing lists, but go look through the archives of most windows user groups (if such a thing exists) and linux users groups. The cultural difference is staggering. Linux community encourages (rather pushes for) self learning, because people here know that if there is something really important for newbies to learn, it is to find out how to extract information from the wealth of documentation that there is on the web and on the operating system itself! When this newbie is stranded on a weekend at his/her office and most LUG people are sleeping over the weekend, this culture of self-help is what is going to help the newbie. There is also the fact that the process of self-help causes the newbie to learn a lot of things on the way that he/she did not intend to learn at that time ;) but would definitely help in the future. A lot like the man-on-the-moon project that India wants to get into - there is not any presently tangible benefit that India can get from it, but the technological advances required to get there might have far more significant spinoffs .. like advances in the field of launching mechanisms and satellites. - Sandip P.S. Bless you if you have read this far :D -- Sandip Bhattacharyahttp://www.sandipb.net sandip at puroga.com Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd. http://www.puroga.com ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
RE: [ilugd] Club bandwidth - linux gurus
No I was just suggesting that rude(which apparently only I felt) comments to linux newbies from Linux gurus can act as a detterent to newbies from being a part of Linux community. Some initial mouth feeding could resolve this? Why we guys always have an escapist attitude??? We never want to open a book or document and dream that some day some magician will come with his magic stick, will make a liquid of the book and will put it in our brain... I *believe* that no one in this group will refuse to answer a sub query on a query (provided you have made a sincere effort to tackle that... Oh I dont know! But this is similar to reinventing the wheel. Something GNU is against.] To a tribe that has seen a wheel for the first time, isnt it better for the world if the tribe is shown how a wheel is used rather than handling them a manual they can't read. Good example!!! But I never knew that you are unable to read the manual... Plz, I am sure that you are grown enough to read something written in simple salty English and even if you find some spice in it, you can always refer to www.dictionary.com. And if any Technical query (no matter how basic it may be); you are always welcome to post them in the list... The tribe could then develop if furhter, rather than discovering the use of the wheel on their own and then starting on to something better OR dumping the wheel aside because they couldnt figure what a wheel is all about! Believe me, I would be the last person on this earth to discourage any one or be a hindrance in the development on anyone in this world... You are most welcome to post any of the queries/questions/suggestions and I am nobody to stop anyone from doing this... Ofcourse, Sandip's point of hiring is accepted. But hire or I wont tell you a thing, just do what you want with the manual is unhealthy. Can we call the tribe dumb if they are not able to figure out the use of a wheel on their own ? Mercy! But ...are you drunk or a philosopher? Sorry!!! I don't drink and it was just to lighten up the mood... At the center of the Linux philosophy is a concept that we now call Open Source Software Cheers!!! Regards, Gurpreet Singh Sachdeva ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Club bandwidth - Linux gurus - linux helplines
I am blessed. :o) I understand the point you made, and disagree. The beggers became beggers because at that time they thought they had nothing else to do. Linux newbies are mostly already aware of windows, and in a country like india, practically both are free. :o) All I was saying was if some extra help could be extended to people who are new to Linux, it could make things easier for them. When I say extra help...I dont mean anything more than emailed solutions that list a stepwise procedure, instead of a referal to a manual that has several thousand things to confuse a beginner. If at the start of a trek, a person is given two options, to climb a tall perpendicular cliff or a steady incline. The person would probably prefer the steady incline. Because at that point he doesnt know that the cliff top is heaven and the steady incline leads to a closed source hell ! Back to beggars, if a NGO takes time to teach pottery to a beggar, it will be easier for the beggar to start pottery. However those little tips(coins) will instead deter them from starting a venture. Ofcourse, if gurus feel their time is too precious to write detailed emails for newbies, then beggers die. If beggars die, GNU falls sick. So next time when you stop at a traffic point, appricaite the effort the beggar has made ! ;o) I am not sure[ ;o) ] , but probably a dumbo's point of view is, that when 'she' asks the same question to a windows support tech and a Linux support tech the difference in the reply recevied is staggering! Let me ask you something - have you seen beggars at the traffic points in Delhi? You must have seen that there are two kinds of people - one who gives alms to these beggars and ones who do not. Now those who do NOT give alms to the beggars are again of two kinds - ones who do not want to give their money to somebody, and ones who feel that giving money to these people will only make these people get dependent on this as a way of living. There is also the fact that the process of self-help causes the newbie to learn a lot of things on the way that he/she did not intend to learn at that time ;) but would definitely help in the future. A lot like the - Sandip P.S. Bless you if you have read this far :D ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
Re: [ilugd] Club bandwidth - linux gurus
Hello! My 0.50 Rs addition to the thread Linux Guru == Someone who has read the manual -- \°°/ (oo) +ooO-- -Ooo-+ |Raj Shekhar |My home: | |System Administrator|http://geocities.com/lunatech3007 | |Media Web India |My blog: | |http://www.netphotograph.com|http://lunatech.journalspace.com | +---+ |__|__| || || ooO Ooo ___ ilugd mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd
