RE: [PHP-DEV] Obscure token name
At 23:39 27/04/2010, Sufficool, Stanley wrote: The rest of PHP5 is in English, why do I have to strain my brain or fire up my browser to decipher Unexpected token T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM on line ## in filename. How many native Hebrew speaking programmers will be put off by changing this to T_DOUBLE_COLON? I for one would be. Zeev -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Obscure token name
Zeev Suraski wrote: At 23:39 27/04/2010, Sufficool, Stanley wrote: The rest of PHP5 is in English, why do I have to strain my brain or fire up my browser to decipher Unexpected token T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM on line ## in filename. How many native Hebrew speaking programmers will be put off by changing this to T_DOUBLE_COLON? I for one would be. Zeev T_SCOPE_RESOLUTION_OPERATOR -- Thomas Hruska CubicleSoft President Ph: 517-803-4197 *NEW* MyTaskFocus 1.1 Get on task. Stay on task. http://www.CubicleSoft.com/MyTaskFocus/ -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Obscure token name
On Mon, 2010-04-26 at 16:32 +0200, mathieu.suen wrote: I am wondering why is the token name so incomprehensible ? Like T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM... I don't mind if we change the name in the error message. Seems to be an issue for some ... but I think you have to look it (quickly) up the first time you stumble over it and then remember it so it shouldn't be a tooo big issue. If you fear typing it: The tokenizer extension already provides T_DOUBLE_COLON as synonym :-) php $t=token_get_all(?::); // Token 0: ? Token 1: :: php var_dump($t[1][0] == T_DOUBLE_COLON $t[1][0] == T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM); bool(true) johannes -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] ereg deprecation?
Hi, I think I asked this before on IRC, but I've forgotten the answer. I was just remembering that the ereg extension was due to be deprecated in PHP6 - does this still apply to trunk? -- Cheers, Michael -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] ereg deprecation?
Michael Maclean wrote: Hi, I think I asked this before on IRC, but I've forgotten the answer. I was just remembering that the ereg extension was due to be deprecated in PHP6 - does this still apply to trunk? ...and by deprecated I of course mean removed. *Ahem*. (Thanks Philip!) -- Cheers, Michael -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] ereg deprecation?
Hi, I think I asked this before on IRC, but I've forgotten the answer. I was just remembering that the ereg extension was due to be deprecated in PHP6 - does this still apply to trunk? Deprecated since 5.3, and was to be removed in 6.0. In that context, it remains deprecated in all new branches. Regards, Stan Vassilev -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] ereg deprecation?
On Apr 28, 2010, at 11:21 AM, Stan Vassilev wrote: Hi, I think I asked this before on IRC, but I've forgotten the answer. I was just remembering that the ereg extension was due to be deprecated in PHP6 - does this still apply to trunk? Deprecated since 5.3, and was to be removed in 6.0. In that context, it remains deprecated in all new branches. In related news, how about adding a --disable-ereg configure option soon. And in more related news, the following manual page is relatively new: Differences from POSIX regex: - http://php.net/manual/en/reference.pcre.pattern.posix.php Additional words there would also be helpful. Regards, Philip -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] backslash, really ... ?
Hi, The comment I'm about to make is behind the times, and, now, useless, I know, but I can't hold me. You chose for the namespace feature, a great feature besides, the backslash ?? really ?? Come on guys, among all the possibilities, you have chosen, according to me, the most hideous character possible. Having Windows©®™ path like strings in the middle of source code is not something that is going to make me use the feature. PHP syntax was simple, clean. To me, the backslash token ruins everything. Using it aside from escaping was something I have never considered, have you ? Do you like it ? The goal of backslash was maybe to highlight namespace in the source code, if it was, congrats, we only see that now. To my opinion it breaks all esthetic's balance of a source code. No need to respond that I should have contribute to the choice, believe me, if I could have, I would have. This was just the comment of a simple guy which is very concerned about source code esthetic's and believes that a neat, well balanced code is more likely to be well maintained that any other one. Best regards. -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [PHP-DEV] backslash, really ... ?
So, you decided to jump in to criticize a design decision that went in after several months of discussion, without any insight into why it was done the way it was? On Apr 28, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Sylvain Rabot wrote: Hi, The comment I'm about to make is behind the times, and, now, useless, I know, but I can't hold me. You chose for the namespace feature, a great feature besides, the backslash ?? really ?? Come on guys, among all the possibilities, you have chosen, according to me, the most hideous character possible. Having Windows©®™ path like strings in the middle of source code is not something that is going to make me use the feature. PHP syntax was simple, clean. To me, the backslash token ruins everything. Using it aside from escaping was something I have never considered, have you ? Do you like it ? The goal of backslash was maybe to highlight namespace in the source code, if it was, congrats, we only see that now. To my opinion it breaks all esthetic's balance of a source code. No need to respond that I should have contribute to the choice, believe me, if I could have, I would have. This was just the comment of a simple guy which is very concerned about source code esthetic's and believes that a neat, well balanced code is more likely to be well maintained that any other one. Best regards. -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] backslash, really ... ?
On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 16:58 -0500, Matt Wilson wrote: So, you decided to jump in to criticize a design decision that went in after several months of discussion, without any insight into why it was done the way it was? Not really criticizing, maybe a bit, but more expressing my disappointment regarding aesthetic loss that the choice made has lead to. It might not concern you but it does concern me and probably other people too. I admit I have no knowledge of what have been told during the months of discussion you are referring to. However, you seem to have this knowledge, so I would be grateful if you could tell me if the aesthetic of the backslash token has been discussed and even more if you can redirect me to a discussion thread. Regards. On Apr 28, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Sylvain Rabot wrote: Hi, The comment I'm about to make is behind the times, and, now, useless, I know, but I can't hold me. You chose for the namespace feature, a great feature besides, the backslash ?? really ?? Come on guys, among all the possibilities, you have chosen, according to me, the most hideous character possible. Having Windows©®™ path like strings in the middle of source code is not something that is going to make me use the feature. PHP syntax was simple, clean. To me, the backslash token ruins everything. Using it aside from escaping was something I have never considered, have you ? Do you like it ? The goal of backslash was maybe to highlight namespace in the source code, if it was, congrats, we only see that now. To my opinion it breaks all esthetic's balance of a source code. No need to respond that I should have contribute to the choice, believe me, if I could have, I would have. This was just the comment of a simple guy which is very concerned about source code esthetic's and believes that a neat, well balanced code is more likely to be well maintained that any other one. Best regards. -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [PHP-DEV] backslash, really ... ?
You can take a look at the RFP if you like. It discusses the pros and cons of various possible separators, and why they chose the backslash. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaceseparator http://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaceseparatorI've been using namespaces for a few months now with the backslash syntax, and I have to say that it doesn't effect the aesthetics or readability of my code. Give it some time, I suspect you'll get used to it in no time. On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.frwrote: On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 16:58 -0500, Matt Wilson wrote: So, you decided to jump in to criticize a design decision that went in after several months of discussion, without any insight into why it was done the way it was? Not really criticizing, maybe a bit, but more expressing my disappointment regarding aesthetic loss that the choice made has lead to. It might not concern you but it does concern me and probably other people too. I admit I have no knowledge of what have been told during the months of discussion you are referring to. However, you seem to have this knowledge, so I would be grateful if you could tell me if the aesthetic of the backslash token has been discussed and even more if you can redirect me to a discussion thread. Regards. On Apr 28, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Sylvain Rabot wrote: Hi, The comment I'm about to make is behind the times, and, now, useless, I know, but I can't hold me. You chose for the namespace feature, a great feature besides, the backslash ?? really ?? Come on guys, among all the possibilities, you have chosen, according to me, the most hideous character possible. Having Windows©®™ path like strings in the middle of source code is not something that is going to make me use the feature. PHP syntax was simple, clean. To me, the backslash token ruins everything. Using it aside from escaping was something I have never considered, have you ? Do you like it ? The goal of backslash was maybe to highlight namespace in the source code, if it was, congrats, we only see that now. To my opinion it breaks all esthetic's balance of a source code. No need to respond that I should have contribute to the choice, believe me, if I could have, I would have. This was just the comment of a simple guy which is very concerned about source code esthetic's and believes that a neat, well balanced code is more likely to be well maintained that any other one. Best regards. -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr
Re: [PHP-DEV] backslash, really ... ?
On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 15:29 -0700, Chad Fulton wrote: You can take a look at the RFP if you like. It discusses the pros and cons of various possible separators, and why they chose the backslash. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaceseparator Thanks. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaceseparatorI've been using namespaces for a few months now with the backslash syntax, and I have to say that it doesn't effect the aesthetics or readability of my code. Give it some time, I suspect you'll get used to it in no time. You might not be as stubborned as I can be regarding this matter :P Backslash is just something not natural to me. Anyway, my obsession, my problem. Was just hopping to find people as disturbed as me :) On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.frwrote: On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 16:58 -0500, Matt Wilson wrote: So, you decided to jump in to criticize a design decision that went in after several months of discussion, without any insight into why it was done the way it was? Not really criticizing, maybe a bit, but more expressing my disappointment regarding aesthetic loss that the choice made has lead to. It might not concern you but it does concern me and probably other people too. I admit I have no knowledge of what have been told during the months of discussion you are referring to. However, you seem to have this knowledge, so I would be grateful if you could tell me if the aesthetic of the backslash token has been discussed and even more if you can redirect me to a discussion thread. Regards. On Apr 28, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Sylvain Rabot wrote: Hi, The comment I'm about to make is behind the times, and, now, useless, I know, but I can't hold me. You chose for the namespace feature, a great feature besides, the backslash ?? really ?? Come on guys, among all the possibilities, you have chosen, according to me, the most hideous character possible. Having Windows©®™ path like strings in the middle of source code is not something that is going to make me use the feature. PHP syntax was simple, clean. To me, the backslash token ruins everything. Using it aside from escaping was something I have never considered, have you ? Do you like it ? The goal of backslash was maybe to highlight namespace in the source code, if it was, congrats, we only see that now. To my opinion it breaks all esthetic's balance of a source code. No need to respond that I should have contribute to the choice, believe me, if I could have, I would have. This was just the comment of a simple guy which is very concerned about source code esthetic's and believes that a neat, well balanced code is more likely to be well maintained that any other one. Best regards. -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [PHP-DEV] backslash, really ... ?
2010/4/29 Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr: On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 15:29 -0700, Chad Fulton wrote: You can take a look at the RFP if you like. It discusses the pros and cons of various possible separators, and why they chose the backslash. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaceseparator Thanks. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaceseparatorI've been using namespaces for a few months now with the backslash syntax, and I have to say that it doesn't effect the aesthetics or readability of my code. Give it some time, I suspect you'll get used to it in no time. You might not be as stubborned as I can be regarding this matter :P Backslash is just something not natural to me. Anyway, my obsession, my problem. Was just hopping to find people as disturbed as me :) On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.frwrote: On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 16:58 -0500, Matt Wilson wrote: So, you decided to jump in to criticize a design decision that went in after several months of discussion, without any insight into why it was done the way it was? Not really criticizing, maybe a bit, but more expressing my disappointment regarding aesthetic loss that the choice made has lead to. It might not concern you but it does concern me and probably other people too. I admit I have no knowledge of what have been told during the months of discussion you are referring to. However, you seem to have this knowledge, so I would be grateful if you could tell me if the aesthetic of the backslash token has been discussed and even more if you can redirect me to a discussion thread. Regards. On Apr 28, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Sylvain Rabot wrote: Hi, The comment I'm about to make is behind the times, and, now, useless, I know, but I can't hold me. You chose for the namespace feature, a great feature besides, the backslash ?? really ?? Come on guys, among all the possibilities, you have chosen, according to me, the most hideous character possible. Having Windows©®™ path like strings in the middle of source code is not something that is going to make me use the feature. PHP syntax was simple, clean. To me, the backslash token ruins everything. Using it aside from escaping was something I have never considered, have you ? Do you like it ? The goal of backslash was maybe to highlight namespace in the source code, if it was, congrats, we only see that now. To my opinion it breaks all esthetic's balance of a source code. No need to respond that I should have contribute to the choice, believe me, if I could have, I would have. This was just the comment of a simple guy which is very concerned about source code esthetic's and believes that a neat, well balanced code is more likely to be well maintained that any other one. It's because you're using a french keyboard and you have to hit two keys (Alt-gr + 8) to obtain a backslash. I agree with you it could be boring, that why when I'm coding I'm sometimes using a qwerty keymap :) ++ Jerome Best regards. -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] backslash, really ... ?
On Thu, 2010-04-29 at 00:44 +0200, Jérôme Loyet wrote: 2010/4/29 Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr: On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 15:29 -0700, Chad Fulton wrote: You can take a look at the RFP if you like. It discusses the pros and cons of various possible separators, and why they chose the backslash. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaceseparator Thanks. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaceseparatorI've been using namespaces for a few months now with the backslash syntax, and I have to say that it doesn't effect the aesthetics or readability of my code. Give it some time, I suspect you'll get used to it in no time. You might not be as stubborned as I can be regarding this matter :P Backslash is just something not natural to me. Anyway, my obsession, my problem. Was just hopping to find people as disturbed as me :) On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.frwrote: On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 16:58 -0500, Matt Wilson wrote: So, you decided to jump in to criticize a design decision that went in after several months of discussion, without any insight into why it was done the way it was? Not really criticizing, maybe a bit, but more expressing my disappointment regarding aesthetic loss that the choice made has lead to. It might not concern you but it does concern me and probably other people too. I admit I have no knowledge of what have been told during the months of discussion you are referring to. However, you seem to have this knowledge, so I would be grateful if you could tell me if the aesthetic of the backslash token has been discussed and even more if you can redirect me to a discussion thread. Regards. On Apr 28, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Sylvain Rabot wrote: Hi, The comment I'm about to make is behind the times, and, now, useless, I know, but I can't hold me. You chose for the namespace feature, a great feature besides, the backslash ?? really ?? Come on guys, among all the possibilities, you have chosen, according to me, the most hideous character possible. Having Windows©®™ path like strings in the middle of source code is not something that is going to make me use the feature. PHP syntax was simple, clean. To me, the backslash token ruins everything. Using it aside from escaping was something I have never considered, have you ? Do you like it ? The goal of backslash was maybe to highlight namespace in the source code, if it was, congrats, we only see that now. To my opinion it breaks all esthetic's balance of a source code. No need to respond that I should have contribute to the choice, believe me, if I could have, I would have. This was just the comment of a simple guy which is very concerned about source code esthetic's and believes that a neat, well balanced code is more likely to be well maintained that any other one. It's because you're using a french keyboard and you have to hit two keys (Alt-gr + 8) to obtain a backslash. Not at all, azerty rocks, I can be really agile with my fingers and I love to do keyboard tricks with them :P I agree with you it could be boring, that why when I'm coding I'm sometimes using a qwerty keymap :) ++ Jerome Best regards. -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr -- Sylvain Rabot sylv...@abstraction.fr signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [PHP-DEV] backslash, really ... ?
Sylvain Rabot wrote: On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 15:29 -0700, Chad Fulton wrote: You can take a look at the RFP if you like. It discusses the pros and cons of various possible separators, and why they chose the backslash. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaceseparator Thanks. http://wiki.php.net/rfc/namespaceseparatorI've been using namespaces for a few months now with the backslash syntax, and I have to say that it doesn't effect the aesthetics or readability of my code. Give it some time, I suspect you'll get used to it in no time. You might not be as stubborned as I can be regarding this matter :P Your stubbornness should have nothing to do with the aesthetics of code operators. You've entered the discussion with a preconceived standpoint. Backslash is just something not natural to me. Anyway, my obsession, my problem. Was just hopping to find people as disturbed as me :) And yet in Linux we use forward slashes for paths and we've never had a problem also using a forward slash for division, truncation, or one line comments. What have you ever escaped that didn't fall within some kind of string delimiter? A backspace outside of a string delimiter shouldn't cause confusion in most programming languages. Cheers, Rob. -- http://www.interjinn.com Application and Templating Framework for PHP -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
RE: [PHP-DEV] trunk is alive and open
-Original Message- From: Johannes Schlüter [mailto:johan...@schlueters.de] Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 9:40 AM To: Pierre Joye Cc: Gwynne Raskind; Ilia Alshanetsky; Kalle Sommer Nielsen; Lukas Kahwe Smith; Andi Gutmans; Derick Rethans; PHP Developers Mailing List Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] trunk is alive and open On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 17:46 +0200, Pierre Joye wrote: Before even thinking about a planning, we have to define what we want in and how we go further. ACK, I think it makes sense to define some key features we want for the next release (traits seem to be one). An issue with 5.3 was that whenever really defined that but only said let's backport from 6 and add all stuff coming in. I think it makes sense to define a set of key features (traits, what else?) and once these are implemented in an accepted way (not meaning stable but having an accepted design) make a release branch (either by branching of or locking trunk for bigger features or whatever) where stability of this is improved else we end up adding feature after feature and introducing problem after problem. As I've mentioned in the past I think we are better off with shorter release cycles and less features per cycle. Reduces risk and enables us to push out value faster. For example, we have made (and are still making) significant performance enhancements to the runtime. It'd be a shame if that waited until Q4 for alpha. I think with traits, performance enhancements and a few additional changes we already have a pretty substantial version. Andi
