[PHP-DEV] Please reconsider supporting PHP 5.2
Hi, A mere year after releasing Version 5.3.0 (Version 5.3.0 30-June-2009) you are dropping PHP 5.2 support. This is a very interesting decision as 5.3.0, compatibility wise, is a major release. I always felt it was PHP 6.0 but it was not called so because there was a development branched called that (which was later abandoned). Serious BC breaking changes include Where previously the function would accept the by-value argument, a fatal error is now emitted. This broke Drupal 6 big time and while core has been fixed, contrib is a bit slower to adapt. Previously, it was possible to pass in simply NULL if you did not care about the by-reference argument. Also, the deprecation of ereg will affect Drupal 6 over its lifetime as the module install / enable functionality uses ereg in a way that can't be fixed: as it is not on a performance critical code path noone bothered to rewrite the truly ancient directory scanning function which takes an ereg as it's argument earlier. And we can't break APIs in a minor release so this can only change in Drupal 7 which is poised to be released in a few months. CakePHP had problems with PHP 5.3 http://i.justrealized.com/2009/08/16/cakephp-php-deprecated-error-warning/ and while I am not sure whether these problems got fixed or not, one year is not a lot of time and so anyone happening to use older CakePHP for whatever reasons is toast. Joomla had its share of problems http://joomlacode.org/gf/project/joomla/tracker/?action=TrackerItemEdittracker_item_id=17150 but they are fixed now, yes. I can repeat what I said about forcing new versions. Then there is the date_default_timezone_set / date.timezone snafu. While as a Drupal core developer I am _so eager_ to use closures finally I can't really endorse forcing everyone to switch to another major version a mere two years after EOLing PHP4. That's fast... too fast. Kind regards Karoly Negyesi Disclaimer: this email only reflects my own personal opinion. Even if that. -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Please reconsider supporting PHP 5.2
hi, On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:17 AM, Karoly Negyesi kar...@negyesi.net wrote: Hi, A mere year after releasing Version 5.3.0 (Version 5.3.0 30-June-2009) you are dropping PHP 5.2 support. We still support 5.2. There is a huge misunderstanding of end of active support. It means that only critical bugs (security related) will be fixed in 5.2. It does not mean that 5.2 is not supported anymore. This is a very interesting decision as 5.3.0, compatibility wise, is a major release. I always felt it was PHP 6.0 but it was not called so because there was a development branched called that (which was later abandoned). Serious BC breaking changes include Where previously the function would accept the by-value argument, a fatal error is now emitted. Not sure about this one. Do you have an example please? The BC breaks are listed here (required changes due to bugs or bad behaviors) : http://php.net/manual/en/migration53.php Also, the deprecation of ereg will affect Drupal 6 Deprecation is only a message when and only when the error reporting level is set to display deprecation messages. The deprecated functions still work as before. Please see http://www.php.net/error_reporting Then there is the date_default_timezone_set / date.timezone snafu. It is now required as nobody read the manual. Without it you simply expect date/time features to work correctly while relying on random timezone or none at all. While as a Drupal core developer I am _so eager_ to use closures finally I can't really endorse forcing everyone to switch to another major version a mere two years after EOLing PHP4. That's fast... too fast. 5 years is not too fast. Also again, it is not EOL. Distributions will also take care of back porting what they have to for their releases lifetime. But we can't. We don't have the resource nor the time to maintain minor releases for 10 years. It is also important to notice that clean code running well with 5.2 will run just as fine with 5.3 as well (yes, clean is all relative but I hope you understand my point :). Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Re: Please reconsider supporting PHP 5.2
Where previously the function would accept the by-value argument, a
fatal error is now emitted.
Not sure about this one. Do you have an example please?
Erm, you do realized that I copied that from the handbook page? Example:
?php
function a($x) {}
a(NULL);
?
PHP Fatal error: Only variables can be passed by reference in
/var/www/u/sites/all/modules/awesomerelationships/x.php on line 4
Also.
Extensions. APC to this day does not have a stable release for PHP
5.3. Neither has XCache. I am not even sure how do you imagine
*anyone* much less everyone upgrading to 5.3 with a production site
without a stable code cache...?
Also note xdebug has a PHP 5.3 compatible release for less than a month.
Regards
NK
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[PHP-DEV] Re: Please reconsider supporting PHP 5.2
Extensions. APC to this day does not have a stable release for PHP 5.3. Neither has XCache. I am not even sure how do you imagine *anyone* much less everyone upgrading to 5.3 with a production site without a stable code cache...? Sorry, apparently XCache 1.3 version does work with 5.3 it's only the homepage of it that does not mention this :) -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Please reconsider supporting PHP 5.2
hi, On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Karoly Negyesi kar...@negyesi.net wrote: Where previously the function would accept the by-value argument, a fatal error is now emitted. Not sure about this one. Do you have an example please? Erm, you do realized that I copied that from the handbook page? Example: No, as you did not show any code and I was not sure what you meant exactly. Thanks to have clarified this case. Also. It is not the EOL for 5.2. Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Please reconsider supporting PHP 5.2
Am 25.07.2010 11:44, schrieb Karoly Negyesi:
Where previously the function would accept the by-value argument, a
fatal error is now emitted.
Not sure about this one. Do you have an example please?
Erm, you do realized that I copied that from the handbook page? Example:
?php
function a($x) {}
a(NULL);
?
PHP Fatal error: Only variables can be passed by reference in
/var/www/u/sites/all/modules/awesomerelationships/x.php on line 4
Thanks god that tis happens to force developers to work clean
NULL is not a reference so th real error os that such things
ever worked
Extensions. APC to this day does not have a stable release for PHP
5.3. Neither has XCache. I am not even sure how do you imagine
*anyone* much less everyone upgrading to 5.3 with a production site
without a stable code cache...?
That is not a php-problem and http://eaccelerator.net/ works
Also note xdebug has a PHP 5.3 compatible release for less than a month.
the question is not how long, the question is does it have
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Re: [PHP-DEV] Please reconsider supporting PHP 5.2
Am 25.07.2010 11:17, schrieb Karoly Negyesi: This is a very interesting decision as 5.3.0, compatibility wise, is a major release. I always felt it was PHP 6.0 but it was not called so because there was a development branched called that (which was later abandoned). This is simply not true A clean designed application has to run the whole time with error_reporting = E_ALL | E_STRICT and so you should have seen the problems long ago This broke Drupal 6 big time and while core has been fixed, contrib is a bit slower to adapt. Previously, it was possible to pass in simply NULL if you did not care about the by-reference argument. The problem is that the developers of drupal, joomla, wordpress are not working error_reporting = E_ALL | E_STRICT as i do since teh first day i use php even on production servers While 122 installations of our own software throwing up to 10 warnings a month many other software rides a DOS-attack against mysql if rsyslog is using a database Also, the deprecation of ereg will affect Drupal 6 over its lifetime as the module install / enable functionality uses ereg in a way that can't be fixed: as it is not on a performance critical code path noone bothered to rewrite the truly ancient directory scanning function which takes an ereg as it's argument earlier. And we can't break APIs in a minor release so this can only change in Drupal 7 which is poised to be released in a few months. Seems that you do not understand what deprecated means? See that such calls are using a @ before to not make crazy peopole like me with thousands of warnings and you have time enough to clean your code Then there is the date_default_timezone_set / date.timezone snafu. If this is a problem the sysadmin did not his job date.timezone = Europe/Vienna in php.ini exists since years an dshould be set in all clan server setups signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[PHP-DEV] Karoly Negyesi: What do you really want?
I really do not understand you First you would like to see a incomatible change without any sense because you do not like some code On the other hand you are crying about the changes in 5.3 because your code which can not live with it since you ignored warnings long time ago So this sounds like bc does not interest me as long it affects me personally Am 25.07.2010 11:17, schrieb Karoly Negyesi: [PHP-DEV] Please reconsider supporting PHP 5.2 A mere year after releasing Version 5.3.0 (Version 5.3.0 30-June-2009) you are dropping PHP 5.2 support. This is a very interesting decision as 5.3.0, compatibility wise, is a major release. I always felt it was PHP 6.0 but it was not called so because there was a development branched called that (which was later abandoned). Serious BC breaking changes include Am 23.07.2010 00:54, schrieb Karoly Negyesi: [PHP-DEV] Remove variable function and method calls Given that call_user_func exists I would recommend to remove $foo() from PHP Next. Observe the logic in the following examples: $foo(); new $foo(); classname::$foo; classname::$foo(); There is a word for this and that word is madness. The simplest is to nuke $foo(). call_user_func() is a perfect replacement. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PHP-DEV] Karoly Negyesi: What do you really want?
hi Reindl, On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: I really do not understand you Please do not top post and (re) consider the tone of your posts, in general. It could be a language barrier but we are here to discuss technical issues in the most friendly way. Cheers, -- Pierre @pierrejoye | http://blog.thepimp.net | http://www.libgd.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Please reconsider supporting PHP 5.2
Hello 2010/7/25 Karoly Negyesi kar...@negyesi.net:' Extensions. APC to this day does not have a stable release for PHP 5.3. Neither has XCache. I am not even sure how do you imagine *anyone* much less everyone upgrading to 5.3 with a production site without a stable code cache...? You should check your sources better regarding APC, have a look at the APC 3.1.3: http://pecl.php.net/package-info.php?package=APCversion=3.1.3 Even before 5.3.0 was released, we worked on making APC compatible with 5.3 which was released only 1 month and 2 weeks after the release. Even the next release of APC thats going beta soon is having full support for the latest development branch (5.3.99). -- regards, Kalle Sommer Nielsen ka...@php.net -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Please reconsider supporting PHP 5.2
Le 25/07/2010 17:15, Kalle Sommer Nielsen a écrit : Hello 2010/7/25 Karoly Negyesikar...@negyesi.net:' Extensions. APC to this day does not have a stable release for PHP 5.3. Neither has XCache. I am not even sure how do you imagine *anyone* much less everyone upgrading to 5.3 with a production site without a stable code cache...? You should check your sources better regarding APC, have a look at the APC 3.1.3: http://pecl.php.net/package-info.php?package=APCversion=3.1.3 Even before 5.3.0 was released, we worked on making APC compatible with 5.3 which was released only 1 month and 2 weeks after the release. Even the next release of APC thats going beta soon is having full support for the latest development branch (5.3.99). APC 3.1.x is marked as beta, not stable : http://pecl.php.net/package/APC Maybe it's time to mark it as stable, if it's the case. Olivier
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Please reconsider supporting PHP 5.2
I said 'stable'. Last I have seen http://pecl.php.net/package/apc the latest stable was 3.0.19. Regards Karoly Negyesi -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] Re: Karoly Negyesi: What do you really want?
So this sounds like bc does not interest me as long it affects me personally You have this backwards. BC surely interests me but there is no BC, there is only a pretense of BC so why not break it as we see fit? And because of this pretense I have asked not to stop supporting PHP 5.2. Regards Karoly Negyesi -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Karoly Negyesi: What do you really want?
On 25.07.2010, at 18:05, Karoly Negyesi wrote: So this sounds like bc does not interest me as long it affects me personally You have this backwards. BC surely interests me but there is no BC, there is only a pretense of BC so why not break it as we see fit? And because of this pretense I have asked not to stop supporting PHP 5.2. Arguing the same thing in circles is just wasting resources. Could stop your posts until you have something novel to post (and have thought it over and maybe spend a second to not look like a whiney user, but actually as someone who wants to contribute to improve the situation)? I read you are interested in QAing, so I suggest you check out http://qa.php.net/. Get setup to run at least the RC's (better yet also the alpha/beta releases, heck even the nightly snapshots) report your findings and assist the doc team in writing the migration guides. regards, Lukas Kahwe Smith m...@pooteeweet.org -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
