Re: [PHP-DEV] PASSWORD_DEFAULT value
Hi On 9/6/23 21:33, Vinicius Dias wrote: This is very interesting. It's the first time I see recommendations pro Bcrypt and against Argon2. Even Owasp recommends Argon2 over Bcrypt [1]. I am not a cryptography expert so I believe that if there is a discussion of which one is better PHP shouldn't change things for now, so that totally answers the question of why the default is still bcrypt. There is some opportunity for change or improvement. As a result of this thread I've created an "Increasing the default BCrypt cost" RFC. I'd be happy to see you within that RFC's discussion thread [1]. Best regards Tim Düsterhus [1] https://news-web.php.net/php.internals/121004 -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] PASSWORD_DEFAULT value
This is very interesting. It's the first time I see recommendations pro Bcrypt and against Argon2. Even Owasp recommends Argon2 over Bcrypt [1]. I am not a cryptography expert so I believe that if there is a discussion of which one is better PHP shouldn't change things for now, so that totally answers the question of why the default is still bcrypt. Thank you both for replying. [1] https://cheatsheetseries.owasp.org/cheatsheets/Password_Storage_Cheat_Sheet.html Vinicius Dias, Zend Certified Engineer, iMasters PHP Certified Professional Em qua., 6 de set. de 2023 às 16:25, Hans Henrik Bergan escreveu: > > Argon2 is opt-in, not opt-out, at compile-time, so then we would have to > agree on it being acceptable for PASSWORD_DEFAULT to have different values > depending on compile-time options, maybe thats completely fine, or maybe it > isn't, idk. > > But as Dusterhus points out, Argon2 is inferior to bcrypt anyway, according > to people much smarter than myself. > > Oh and Argon2 has been around since 2015 and multiple vulnerabilities have > been discovered, speeding up brute force/dictionary attacks. Can't say the > same for bcrypt > > On Wed, Sep 6, 2023, 18:52 Tim Düsterhus wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> On 9/6/23 18:08, Vinicius Dias wrote: >> > I was wondering here... Is there any reason for `PASSWORD_DEFAULT`'s >> > value not to be `PASSWORD_ARGON2ID`? >> > >> >> To the best of my knowledge Argon2 is not available in a "default" >> installation of PHP without including any external dependencies. >> >> Also Argon2 for settings that are reasonable for interactive >> authentication is worse than BCrypt according to: >> >> https://twitter.com/TerahashCorp/status/1155119064248913920 >> and >> https://twitter.com/TerahashCorp/status/1155129705034653698 >> >> Best regards >> Tim Düsterhus >> >> -- >> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List >> To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php >> -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
Re: [PHP-DEV] PASSWORD_DEFAULT value
Argon2 is opt-in, not opt-out, at compile-time, so then we would have to agree on it being acceptable for PASSWORD_DEFAULT to have different values depending on compile-time options, maybe thats completely fine, or maybe it isn't, idk. But as Dusterhus points out, Argon2 is inferior to bcrypt anyway, according to people much smarter than myself. Oh and Argon2 has been around since 2015 and multiple vulnerabilities have been discovered, speeding up brute force/dictionary attacks. Can't say the same for bcrypt On Wed, Sep 6, 2023, 18:52 Tim Düsterhus wrote: > Hi > > On 9/6/23 18:08, Vinicius Dias wrote: > > I was wondering here... Is there any reason for `PASSWORD_DEFAULT`'s > > value not to be `PASSWORD_ARGON2ID`? > > > > To the best of my knowledge Argon2 is not available in a "default" > installation of PHP without including any external dependencies. > > Also Argon2 for settings that are reasonable for interactive > authentication is worse than BCrypt according to: > > https://twitter.com/TerahashCorp/status/1155119064248913920 > and > https://twitter.com/TerahashCorp/status/1155129705034653698 > > Best regards > Tim Düsterhus > > -- > PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List > To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php > >
Re: [PHP-DEV] PASSWORD_DEFAULT value
Hi On 9/6/23 18:08, Vinicius Dias wrote: I was wondering here... Is there any reason for `PASSWORD_DEFAULT`'s value not to be `PASSWORD_ARGON2ID`? To the best of my knowledge Argon2 is not available in a "default" installation of PHP without including any external dependencies. Also Argon2 for settings that are reasonable for interactive authentication is worse than BCrypt according to: https://twitter.com/TerahashCorp/status/1155119064248913920 and https://twitter.com/TerahashCorp/status/1155129705034653698 Best regards Tim Düsterhus -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
[PHP-DEV] PASSWORD_DEFAULT value
Hey there, folks! I was wondering here... Is there any reason for `PASSWORD_DEFAULT`'s value not to be `PASSWORD_ARGON2ID`? Would that change require an RFC? -- PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List To unsubscribe, visit: https://www.php.net/unsub.php
