RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Anatol Belski]

Hi Andrea,

> -Original Message-
> From: Andrea Faulds [mailto:a...@ajf.me]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 9:00 PM
> To: internals@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Anatol Belski wrote:
> > that's my point as well. There is a clear documentation about type hints, 
> > usage
> of an undocumented way is out of scope of BC. Using \int means there were a
> "class int{}" which is prohibited. Of course it is a bug after all, which 
> will be
> addressed.
> 
> It may not be documented, but that doesn't put it outside the scope of BC.
> People will unintentionally rely on bugs.
> 
What is the reason to use \int if "class \int{}" is prohibited? A typo :) ? 

If the patch is fine within RC8 period, it is going to be applied in 7.0.1 
which is soon enough to avoid creating bad habits. Applying a couple of hours 
old patch to the bug with such severity seems not appropriate, anyway.

Regards

Anatol


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RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Anatol Belski]

Hi Andrea,

> -Original Message-
> From: Andrea Faulds [mailto:a...@ajf.me]
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2015 12:47 AM
> To: internals@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness
> 
> Hi Anatol,
> 
> Anatol Belski wrote:
> >>
> >> It may not be documented, but that doesn't put it outside the scope of BC.
> >> People will unintentionally rely on bugs.
> >>
> > What is the reason to use \int if "class \int{}" is prohibited? A typo :) ?
> 
> It might be used deliberately since some IDEs (PHPStorm in particular) can't
> handle PHP 7's scalar type hints properly in namespaces yet.
> 
Hm, but then it's a bug in PHPStorm for PHP7 support, not in PHP? Particularly 
I've found this amusing thread https://devnet.jetbrains.com/message/5507875 . 
Even PHPStorm would insert \int, it'll then complain that there's no such 
class, and it'll complain about the doc blocks, and passing int instead of \int 
object. So an IDE will really need to be PHP 7 compatible.

Also, the basic situation is even worse, any code ported to PHP7 and using type 
hints is potentially already broken. With this patch available on the day zero, 
those codes won't work. We know that this fix is necessary and can't be 
avoided, so putting it into somewhere after day zero - the broken PHP codes 
will work with .0 and there will be a gap to fix them till next PHP release.

Regards

Anatol 


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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Andrea Faulds]

Hi Anatol,

Anatol Belski wrote:


It may not be documented, but that doesn't put it outside the scope of BC.
People will unintentionally rely on bugs.


What is the reason to use \int if "class \int{}" is prohibited? A typo :) ?


It might be used deliberately since some IDEs (PHPStorm in particular) 
can't handle PHP 7's scalar type hints properly in namespaces yet.


Thanks.

--
Andrea Faulds
http://ajf.me/

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Stanislav Malyshev]

Hi!

> It may not be documented, but that doesn't put it outside the scope of
> BC. People will unintentionally rely on bugs.

People might, but we are under no obligation to keep bugs around for
these people.

-- 
Stas Malyshev
smalys...@gmail.com

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Andrea Faulds]

Hi,

Anatol Belski wrote:

that's my point as well. There is a clear documentation about type hints, usage of an 
undocumented way is out of scope of BC. Using \int means there were a "class 
int{}" which is prohibited. Of course it is a bug after all, which will be 
addressed.  


It may not be documented, but that doesn't put it outside the scope of 
BC. People will unintentionally rely on bugs.


Thanks.

--
Andrea Faulds
http://ajf.me/

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RE: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Anatol Belski]

Hi Stas,

> -Original Message-
> From: Stanislav Malyshev [mailto:smalys...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 6:28 PM
> To: Andrea Faulds <a...@ajf.me>; internals@lists.php.net
> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness
> 
> Hi!
> 
> > It can't wait for 7.0.1, because banning this would be a
> > backwards-compatibility break with 7.0.0. We have to fix it in 7.0.0
> > or not fix it ever.
> 
> In theory, yes. In practice, if somebody starts using 7.0.0 and immediately 
> jumps
> to using \int, I don't feel too bad for breaking that code. We can put a note 
> in
> release notes for this is needed. But the risk of changing syntax parts on the
> brink of GA IMHO is much larger than the risk of somebody using \int in 7.0.0
> and getting breakage in 7.0.1. Especially if it's clearly described as a bug 
> we
> intend to fix.
> 
that's my point as well. There is a clear documentation about type hints, usage 
of an undocumented way is out of scope of BC. Using \int means there were a 
"class int{}" which is prohibited. Of course it is a bug after all, which will 
be addressed.

Regards

Anatol


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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Sebastian Bergmann]

On 11/24/2015 05:47 PM, Andrea Faulds wrote:

Can this be fixed for 7.0.0?


 I sure hope so.

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Chris Riley]

On 24 November 2015 at 17:16, Andrea Faulds  wrote:

> Hi Stas,
>
> Stanislav Malyshev wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>>>>>function a(\int $i) {}

Is it intentional that the \ in front of the "int" is allowed? IMHO,
 this
confusing notation must not be allowed.

>>>
>>> This is weird and I'd consider it a bug. You can't do \array or
>>> \callable, and if I saw \int, I'd think it meant a class of that name
>>> rather than a scalar type.
>>>
>>
>> I would assume \int means class named "int", as opposed to "int" type.
>>
>
> That's also what I'd expect. However, "int" is not allowed as a class name
> in PHP 7. And unfortunately what the code Sebastian posted sctually does is
> act as an integer type hint, not as a class type hint.
>
> Can this be fixed for 7.0.0?
>>>
>>
>> I don't think this would be a good idea. We're in the final stretch of
>> release cycle, and should not do any non-urgent fixes. This does not
>> look urgent. It can wait for 7.0.1.
>>
>
> It can't wait for 7.0.1, because banning this would be a
> backwards-compatibility break with 7.0.0. We have to fix it in 7.0.0 or not
> fix it ever.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Andrea Faulds
> http://ajf.me/
>
> --
> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>
Could we not just document it as \int is not allowed and throws a fatal
error. Then we'd just be fixing a bug in documented behaviour.

~C

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Stanislav Malyshev]

Hi!

> It can't wait for 7.0.1, because banning this would be a
> backwards-compatibility break with 7.0.0. We have to fix it in 7.0.0 or
> not fix it ever.

In theory, yes. In practice, if somebody starts using 7.0.0 and
immediately jumps to using \int, I don't feel too bad for breaking that
code. We can put a note in release notes for this is needed. But the
risk of changing syntax parts on the brink of GA IMHO is much larger
than the risk of somebody using \int in 7.0.0 and getting breakage in
7.0.1. Especially if it's clearly described as a bug we intend to fix.

-- 
Stas Malyshev
smalys...@gmail.com

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Andrea Faulds]

Hi Stas,

Stanislav Malyshev wrote:

Hi!


It can't wait for 7.0.1, because banning this would be a
backwards-compatibility break with 7.0.0. We have to fix it in 7.0.0 or
not fix it ever.


In theory, yes. In practice, if somebody starts using 7.0.0 and
immediately jumps to using \int, I don't feel too bad for breaking that
code. We can put a note in release notes for this is needed. But the
risk of changing syntax parts on the brink of GA IMHO is much larger
than the risk of somebody using \int in 7.0.0 and getting breakage in
7.0.1. Especially if it's clearly described as a bug we intend to fix.


There's no syntax change. We'd be adding another fatal error to 
zend_compile.c triggered by a flag on the token. No messing around with 
the parser.


I understand your concern about the risk, but it's the kind of change 
that wouldn't break anything without it being tremendously obvious.


Thanks.

--
Andrea Faulds
http://ajf.me/

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Joshua Holmer]

On Nov 24, 2015 12:28 PM, "Stanislav Malyshev"  wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> > It can't wait for 7.0.1, because banning this would be a
> > backwards-compatibility break with 7.0.0. We have to fix it in 7.0.0 or
> > not fix it ever.
>
> In theory, yes. In practice, if somebody starts using 7.0.0 and
> immediately jumps to using \int, I don't feel too bad for breaking that
> code. We can put a note in release notes for this is needed. But the
> risk of changing syntax parts on the brink of GA IMHO is much larger
> than the risk of somebody using \int in 7.0.0 and getting breakage in
> 7.0.1. Especially if it's clearly described as a bug we intend to fix.
>

Hi,

Isn't it quite worse to fix this in a patch release than to fix it prior to
GA? If something like this breaks prior to GA, that's tolerated. People
have been warned not to use pre-release versions of PHP7 in production.
Once 7.0.0 is out, people expect stability. If something breaks between
patch releases, even an undocumented behavior like this, it makes PHP look
bad. Even if you call this change a bug fix, there's no reason not to put
it in now, since isn't the purpose of the RCs to fix as many bugs as
possible before GA?

Josh Holmer

Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Stanislav Malyshev]

Hi!

>>   >   function a(\int $i) {}
>>
>>   Is it intentional that the \ in front of the "int" is allowed? IMHO,
>> this
>>   confusing notation must not be allowed.
> 
> This is weird and I'd consider it a bug. You can't do \array or
> \callable, and if I saw \int, I'd think it meant a class of that name
> rather than a scalar type.

I would assume \int means class named "int", as opposed to "int" type.
But banning it may be ok too.

> 
> Can this be fixed for 7.0.0?

I don't think this would be a good idea. We're in the final stretch of
release cycle, and should not do any non-urgent fixes. This does not
look urgent. It can wait for 7.0.1.

-- 
Stas Malyshev
smalys...@gmail.com

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Andrea Faulds]

Hi Stas,

Stanislav Malyshev wrote:

Hi!


   

This is weird and I'd consider it a bug. You can't do \array or
\callable, and if I saw \int, I'd think it meant a class of that name
rather than a scalar type.


I would assume \int means class named "int", as opposed to "int" type.


That's also what I'd expect. However, "int" is not allowed as a class 
name in PHP 7. And unfortunately what the code Sebastian posted sctually 
does is act as an integer type hint, not as a class type hint.



Can this be fixed for 7.0.0?


I don't think this would be a good idea. We're in the final stretch of
release cycle, and should not do any non-urgent fixes. This does not
look urgent. It can wait for 7.0.1.


It can't wait for 7.0.1, because banning this would be a 
backwards-compatibility break with 7.0.0. We have to fix it in 7.0.0 or 
not fix it ever.


Thanks.

--
Andrea Faulds
http://ajf.me/

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Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: Scalar Type Declaration Syntax Weirdness

[Matteo Beccati]

On 24/11/2015 18:50, Andrea Faulds wrote:
> There's no syntax change. We'd be adding another fatal error to
> zend_compile.c triggered by a flag on the token. No messing around with
> the parser.
> 
> I understand your concern about the risk, but it's the kind of change
> that wouldn't break anything without it being tremendously obvious.

I agree and we should be still in time for RC8.


Cheers
-- 
Matteo Beccati

Development & Consulting - http://www.beccati.com/

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