Re: Joe Admin User mail services Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Install your own java.rmi.server.RMIClassLoaderSpi instance by setting
the java.rmi.server.RMIClassLoaderSpi system property to an implementation
of RMIClassLoaderSpi, and you can choose to load classes from the codebase
passed in to loadClass even if there is no security manager. You
can maintain a map of codebase to URLClassLoader instances and use
the URLClassLoader to do the actual loading of the class from the
codebase.
public abstract class RMIClassLoaderSpi
{
public abstract Class loadClass(String codebase, String name,
ClassLoader defaultLoader)
throws MalformedURLException, ClassNotFoundException;
public abstract Class loadProxyClass(String codebase,
String[] interfaces, ClassLoader defaultLoader)
throws MalformedURLException, ClassNotFoundException;
public abstract ClassLoader getClassLoader(String codebase)
throws MalformedURLException;
public abstract String getClassAnnotation(Class cl);
}
Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
On 11/10/03 8:18 AM, Scott M Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In order to load the org.jboss.mail.userrepository.MetaInfoImpl
class from the codebase, you are going to have to catch the
UndeclaredThrowableException and check the nested type since
the RMIAdaptor interface does not allow for ClassNotFoundExceptions.
Right...how do I actually load it from the codebase...I got the catching the
exception issue.
--
Scott Stark
Chief Technology Officer
JBoss Group, LLC
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Re: Joe Admin User mail services Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
On 11/10/03 8:18 AM, Scott M Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In order to load the org.jboss.mail.userrepository.MetaInfoImpl class from the codebase, you are going to have to catch the UndeclaredThrowableException and check the nested type since the RMIAdaptor interface does not allow for ClassNotFoundExceptions. Right...how do I actually load it from the codebase...I got the catching the exception issue. -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for Jakarta POI http://jakarta.apache.org/poi For Java and Excel, Got POI? The views expressed in this email are those of the author and are almost definitely not shared by the Apache Software Foundation, its board or its general membership. In fact they probably most definitively disagree with everything espoused in the above email. --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: Joe Admin User mail services Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
On 11/6/03 8:32 PM, Adrian Brock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
pseudo rmi code:
try
{
return invokeServer()
}
catch (ClassNotFoundException e)
{
if (System.getSecurityManager() == null)
throw new No RMI Security Manager etc.;
else
tryToLoadClassFromRMICodeBase();
}
Thanks. I'm getting this (attached). How do I make it happy?
java.lang.reflect.UndeclaredThrowableException
at $Proxy0.invoke(Unknown Source)
at
org.jboss.console.gui.system.MBeanServerBridge.getMBeanMetaInfo(MBeanServerB
ridge.java:60)
at
org.jboss.console.gui.system.MBeanServerBridge.getMBeanMetaInfo(MBeanServerB
ridge.java:48)
at
org.jboss.console.gui.system.MBeanServerBridge.getManageableMetaInfo(MBeanSe
rverBridge.java:40)
at
org.jboss.console.gui.applet.JBConsoleApplet.updateServerNodes(JBConsoleAppl
et.java:300)
at
org.jboss.console.gui.applet.JBConsoleApplet.treeSelectionHandler(JBConsoleA
pplet.java:284)
at
org.jboss.console.gui.applet.JBConsoleApplet$4.valueChanged(JBConsoleApplet.
java:174)
at
javax.swing.tree.DefaultTreeSelectionModel.fireValueChanged(DefaultTreeSelec
tionModel.java:629)Should display error about updating server nodes
at
javax.swing.tree.DefaultTreeSelectionModel.notifyPathChange(DefaultTreeSelec
tionModel.java:1076)
at
javax.swing.tree.DefaultTreeSelectionModel.setSelectionPaths(DefaultTreeSele
ctionModel.java:287)
at
javax.swing.tree.DefaultTreeSelectionModel.setSelectionPath(DefaultTreeSelec
tionModel.java:170)
at javax.swing.JTree.setSelectionPath(JTree.java:1181)
at
javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicTreeUI.selectPathForEvent(BasicTreeUI.java:2192)
at
javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicTreeUI$MouseHandler.handleSelection(BasicTreeUI.
java:2840)
at
javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicTreeUI$MouseHandler.mousePressed(BasicTreeUI.jav
a:2801)
at
java.awt.AWTEventMulticaster.mousePressed(AWTEventMulticaster.java:218)
at java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Component.java:5090)
at java.awt.Component.processEvent(Component.java:4890)
at java.awt.Container.processEvent(Container.java:1566)
at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Component.java:3598)
at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:1623)
at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:3439)
at
java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Container.java:3450)
at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Container.java:3162)
at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Container.java:3095)
at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Container.java:1609)
at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Component.java:3439)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(EventQueue.java:450)
at
java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForHierarchy(EventDispatchThread.ja
va:230)
at
java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(EventDispatchThread.java
:183)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:177)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:169)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(EventDispatchThread.java:99)
Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException:
org.jboss.mail.userrepository.MetaInfoImpl (no security manager: RMI class
loader disabled)
at sun.rmi.server.LoaderHandler.loadClass(LoaderHandler.java:368)
at sun.rmi.server.LoaderHandler.loadClass(LoaderHandler.java:159)
at java.rmi.server.RMIClassLoader$2.loadClass(RMIClassLoader.java:631)
at java.rmi.server.RMIClassLoader.loadClass(RMIClassLoader.java:257)
at
sun.rmi.server.MarshalInputStream.resolveClass(MarshalInputStream.java:200)
at
java.io.ObjectInputStream.readNonProxyDesc(ObjectInputStream.java:1513)
at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readClassDesc(ObjectInputStream.java:1435)
at
java.io.ObjectInputStream.readOrdinaryObject(ObjectInputStream.java:1626)
at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readObject0(ObjectInputStream.java:1274)
at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readObject(ObjectInputStream.java:324)
at java.rmi.MarshalledObject.get(MarshalledObject.java:135)
at
org.jboss.invocation.jrmp.interfaces.JRMPInvokerProxy.invoke(JRMPInvokerProx
y.java:136)
at
org.jboss.invocation.InvokerInterceptor.invoke(InvokerInterceptor.java:96)
at
org.jboss.jmx.connector.invoker.client.InvokerAdaptorClientInterceptor.invok
e(InvokerAdaptorClientInterceptor.java:58)
at
org.jboss.proxy.SecurityInterceptor.invoke(SecurityInterceptor.java:45)
at
org.jboss.proxy.ClientMethodInterceptor.invoke(ClientMethodInterceptor.java:
55)
at org.jboss.proxy.ClientContainer.invoke(ClientContainer.java:85)
... 33 more
Regards,
Adrian
Details here:
http://superlinksoftware.com/cgi-bin/erswiki.pl?JBossConsole
(Ugly picture included).
It also incorporates MASS-server configuration (meaning telling all 20 in
the cluster to reconfigure)
Here are the details from an earlier message that doesn't seem to have made
it here:
The present status
Re: Joe Admin User mail services Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
In order to load the org.jboss.mail.userrepository.MetaInfoImpl class from the codebase, you are going to have to catch the UndeclaredThrowableException and check the nested type since the RMIAdaptor interface does not allow for ClassNotFoundExceptions. -- Scott Stark Chief Technology Officer JBoss Group, LLC Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Thanks. I'm getting this (attached). How do I make it happy? java.lang.reflect.UndeclaredThrowableException at $Proxy0.invoke(Unknown Source) ... Caused by: java.lang.ClassNotFoundException: org.jboss.mail.userrepository.MetaInfoImpl (no security manager: RMI class loader disabled) at sun.rmi.server.LoaderHandler.loadClass(LoaderHandler.java:368) at sun.rmi.server.LoaderHandler.loadClass(LoaderHandler.java:159) at java.rmi.server.RMIClassLoader$2.loadClass(RMIClassLoader.java:631) at java.rmi.server.RMIClassLoader.loadClass(RMIClassLoader.java:257) at sun.rmi.server.MarshalInputStream.resolveClass(MarshalInputStream.java:200) at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readNonProxyDesc(ObjectInputStream.java:1513) at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readClassDesc(ObjectInputStream.java:1435) at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readOrdinaryObject(ObjectInputStream.java:1626) at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readObject0(ObjectInputStream.java:1274) at java.io.ObjectInputStream.readObject(ObjectInputStream.java:324) at java.rmi.MarshalledObject.get(MarshalledObject.java:135) at org.jboss.invocation.jrmp.interfaces.JRMPInvokerProxy.invoke(JRMPInvokerProx y.java:136) at org.jboss.invocation.InvokerInterceptor.invoke(InvokerInterceptor.java:96) at org.jboss.jmx.connector.invoker.client.InvokerAdaptorClientInterceptor.invok e(InvokerAdaptorClientInterceptor.java:58) at org.jboss.proxy.SecurityInterceptor.invoke(SecurityInterceptor.java:45) at org.jboss.proxy.ClientMethodInterceptor.invoke(ClientMethodInterceptor.java: 55) at org.jboss.proxy.ClientContainer.invoke(ClientContainer.java:85) ... 33 more --- This SF.Net email sponsored by: ApacheCon 2003, 16-19 November in Las Vegas. Learn firsthand the latest developments in Apache, PHP, Perl, XML, Java, MySQL, WebDAV, and more! http://www.apachecon.com/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
I meant an xml doc and the corresponding xsd which allows for all this blah blah you just wrote here. -- Scott Stark Chief Technology Officer JBoss Group, LLC Holger Baxmann wrote: On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:36:33 -0800, Scott M Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Give me an example of this meaningful description of an applied security model that needs to be mapped into a declarative j2ee security descriptor. The security of the whole system, where j2ee is only a part of, is less secure than the weakest part. Maybe j2ee-jaas is the strongest here, but only maybe. So you will have either two different mapping systems about party,place,thing - time - role or you are using a standardized kind of security infrastruture. In both, the j2ee and the other parts of the solution. So it should be mapped below the j2ee security, in an osi-fied point of view :) Use java.securityManager. All j2ee .?ar's sealed into crosscertified CA's certs. j2ee could inherit the identities from this, at least the one of the server/instance. It is mostly all about what the 'Identity' mean - in Authorization, Authentification and Auditing - in my example X.509 certs (I know they do not really exist), self signed or CA based. So my example will be: Security as a process of working with jboss, using it, audit it - beyound these j2ee marketing stuff in the real world where you have the all-use-the-same-password-user and the i-should tell you the password syndromes, by resting the social engeneering of credentials. Strongest identification, not fakable. Scalable and effortless in usage. PK based VPN between several JBoss nodes in a cluster - secured. your turn bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Joe Admin User mail services Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Why don't we start different threads for different issues? This thread start out as discussing making management easier. e.g. Joe Windows Admin wants a GUI Wizard entitled Configure datasource preferably one that does not ask if he writing letter :-) How does Joe hates-GUIs programmer (i.e. me) maintain that wizard and other management interfaces when I add configuration options to the jdbc rars or db specifc plugins? I've started working on this. I'm hitting a gee you don't have a security manager so you can't use the RMI Classloader issue, but I'm sure I'll figure it out shortly. Details here: http://superlinksoftware.com/cgi-bin/erswiki.pl?JBossConsole (Ugly picture included). It also incorporates MASS-server configuration (meaning telling all 20 in the cluster to reconfigure) Here are the details from an earlier message that doesn't seem to have made it here: The present status is that the SMTP is mostly done and can post messages to JMS (that¹s just because I wrote that particular mail listener first). My vision is that in the short run we'll have a simple MDBean which looks at the message and either writes it to a MailBox (which I envision being an entity bean and later use either Hibernate or Bela's cache thingy). Why? I want 200 ms IMAP access (for instance). Someone else has already contributed a TLS (SSL) implementation. Eric has written a POP implementation that is awaiting a mailbox abstraction. (Back to above) A JBoss client has asked to fund some of that work with their support hours and Eric will be working on the mailbox abstraction, etc shortly. Once that is complete we have to think through authentication policies. I favor a rather lame brained pessimistic policy at first which will limit our usefulness in some areas but I don't want to ever stamp something release until we're real secure. Julien has also contributed something or other, however I didn't really understand that whole thing to be honest (why did we need that over JavaMail?)... The TLS guy also submitted a non-javamail Mail header implementation. Why? Because of all stupid things the InternetHeader class isn't serializable. I've got a prototype for the Jboss Console GUI (http://superlinksoftware.com/cgi-bin/erswiki.pl?JBossConsole) necessary to set up the Mail Services stuff. ATM I have to deal with restrictions on the RMI Classloader. The reason that I consider this related closely to mail services is that in order to provide an enterprise class mail server system which is flexible enough for e-support and mail lists and whatever without making the setup as anti-user-friendly as sendmail.cf, I need to consider it from the start. Right now the GUI comes up and can categorize uimanageable=true MBeans and attempts to get their UI then chokes with a classloader issue. Anyhow, that¹s no biggy, I'll get there. Once that is done I need to see how to hook into the deployment scanner and tell it this descriptor is not to be redeployed, here's its new timestamp..then I have to figure out how to write descriptors. Bottom line: 1. Finish out mailbox abstraction 2. MDBean for sending and sorting mail 3. Get authentication policies set up 4. Round out the JBConsole 5. Write IMAP protocol and increase the complexity of the mailbox abstraction (multi-folder) 6. Write a calendar abstraction 7. Exchange protocol Eric may have some differing viewpoints (I have a funny way of working with people which sometimes looks chaotic, they go a direction, I go a direction then we meet up with the best tech winning). Hopefully he'll offer them up and round this out. Better yet...maybe he'll start on the wiki: http://superlinksoftware.com/cgi-bin/erswiki.pl?action=editid=MailServicesF orJBoss -- it puts the lotion in the bucket or it gets the hose. With two contiguous months I could get the mail server rounded out (at least 1-4). I'll probably need the most help for 7. I've actually done some work on 5 before for JAMES so no biggy. How's that? -Andy The datasource is a good/pathological example because it also includes advanced configurations like the CMP mappings, jbossmq persistence config and the pad=true xid for Oracle. Showing disparate metadata needs to be combined in the management view/tool. Regards, Adrian -- Juha IMHO bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development -- Andrew C. Oliver http://www.superlinksoftware.com/poi.jsp Custom enhancements and Commercial Implementation for
Re: Joe Admin User mail services Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
On Fri, 2003-11-07 at 00:19, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
Why don't we start different threads for different issues?
This thread start out as discussing making management easier.
e.g. Joe Windows Admin wants a GUI Wizard entitled
Configure datasource preferably one that does not ask if he writing
letter :-)
How does Joe hates-GUIs programmer (i.e. me) maintain that wizard
and other management interfaces when I add configuration options
to the jdbc rars or db specifc plugins?
I've started working on this. I'm hitting a gee you don't have a security
manager so you can't use the RMI Classloader issue, but I'm sure I'll
figure it out shortly.
pseudo rmi code:
try
{
return invokeServer()
}
catch (ClassNotFoundException e)
{
if (System.getSecurityManager() == null)
throw new No RMI Security Manager etc.;
else
tryToLoadClassFromRMICodeBase();
}
Regards,
Adrian
Details here:
http://superlinksoftware.com/cgi-bin/erswiki.pl?JBossConsole
(Ugly picture included).
It also incorporates MASS-server configuration (meaning telling all 20 in
the cluster to reconfigure)
Here are the details from an earlier message that doesn't seem to have made
it here:
The present status is that the SMTP is mostly done and can post messages to
JMS (thats just because I wrote that particular mail listener first). My
vision is that in the short run we'll have a simple MDBean which looks at
the message and either writes it to a MailBox (which I envision being an
entity bean and later use either Hibernate or Bela's cache thingy). Why? I
want 200 ms IMAP access (for instance). Someone else has already
contributed a TLS (SSL) implementation.
Eric has written a POP implementation that is awaiting a mailbox
abstraction. (Back to above)
A JBoss client has asked to fund some of that work with their support hours
and Eric will be working on the mailbox abstraction, etc shortly.
Once that is complete we have to think through authentication policies. I
favor a rather lame brained pessimistic policy at first which will limit our
usefulness in some areas but I don't want to ever stamp something release
until we're real secure.
Julien has also contributed something or other, however I didn't really
understand that whole thing to be honest (why did we need that over
JavaMail?)...
The TLS guy also submitted a non-javamail Mail header implementation. Why?
Because of all stupid things the InternetHeader class isn't serializable.
I've got a prototype for the Jboss Console GUI
(http://superlinksoftware.com/cgi-bin/erswiki.pl?JBossConsole) necessary to
set up the Mail Services stuff. ATM I have to deal with restrictions on the
RMI Classloader. The reason that I consider this related closely to mail
services is that in order to provide an enterprise class mail server
system which is flexible enough for e-support and mail lists and whatever
without making the setup as anti-user-friendly as sendmail.cf, I need to
consider it from the start. Right now the GUI comes up and can categorize
uimanageable=true MBeans and attempts to get their UI then chokes with a
classloader issue. Anyhow, thats no biggy, I'll get there. Once that is
done I need to see how to hook into the deployment scanner and tell it this
descriptor is not to be redeployed, here's its new timestamp..then I
have to figure out how to write descriptors.
Bottom line:
1. Finish out mailbox abstraction
2. MDBean for sending and sorting mail
3. Get authentication policies set up
4. Round out the JBConsole
5. Write IMAP protocol and increase the complexity of the mailbox
abstraction (multi-folder)
6. Write a calendar abstraction
7. Exchange protocol
Eric may have some differing viewpoints (I have a funny way of working with
people which sometimes looks chaotic, they go a direction, I go a direction
then we meet up with the best tech winning). Hopefully he'll offer them up
and round this out. Better yet...maybe he'll start on the wiki:
http://superlinksoftware.com/cgi-bin/erswiki.pl?action=editid=MailServicesF
orJBoss -- it puts the lotion in the bucket or it gets the hose.
With two contiguous months I could get the mail server rounded out (at least
1-4). I'll probably need the most help for 7. I've actually done some work
on 5 before for JAMES so no biggy.
How's that?
-Andy
The datasource is a good/pathological example because it also includes
advanced configurations like the CMP mappings,
jbossmq persistence config and the pad=true xid for Oracle.
Showing disparate metadata needs to be combined in the management
view/tool.
Regards,
Adrian
-- Juha
IMHO
bax
---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program.
Does SourceForge.net help you be more
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Am 05.11.2003 um 04:07 schrieb Scott M Stark: Its required for j2ee1.4, but you don't need an xsd to use xsl to transform and xml document. ... as we all know. But this is only one side of the mirror. The question is: What if you use XSLT on XSD? The answer is: You are applying different semantics on the same XML content (XSD _is_ an XML Application). You are able to create and transform vocabularies into each other. Worth thinking and doing. bax -- Scott Stark Chief Technology Officer JBoss Group, LLC Holger Baxmann - bitwind wrote: When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. IMHO bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
The problem is not writing the right code or using the right OM. The problem is applying the right code with a appropriate OM at the right time to the right understanding, taxonomy and onthology of the USER. Code doesn't sell, the right functionalities at the right times will sell. Today we are generally not able to fullfill this need. Sometime we come closer, sometime we fail. If we come closer, the USER will change his mind - we will fail. ;-) The issue is _not_ the data, it is the MEANING. We are trying to seperate the the ontologies into interface, the taxonomies into interceptor and invoker. All these are stateless in the case of content. Go one step further and decouple the meta-data and hot deploy them. Continous BuildTest on the metadata. Including Refactoring of metadata. At runtime. There are some good examples for this: look for XML Schmema ontology in google or applying the MOF to JBoss.org. ebXML and RosettaNet, in case of already defined Schema implementations, would be helpfull to be transformed by XSLT into a JBoss DD. And, again: You can generate the whole code out of XSD meta and XML content in a standard way, but not vice versa. Java code is only a special case of formulating MEANING, it is ugly in this. XSD is make for describe MEANING. For example MEANING of an applied security model. Ok, it is regarding the level of the USER of JBoss, not the level of the coder of JBoss. Sorry for beeing one of the first. bax Am 05.11.2003 um 04:18 schrieb Scott M Stark: Explain how xsd is actually the object model in terms of what the metadata handling code is using. Its directly manipulating xml instances that conform to the xsd or is there is a binding of the xsd to a java object model? If there is a binding, then that is the object model, not the xsd as that is what the code is dependent on. Why would I want to directly use some xml api and propagate around dependencies on xml parsing (which we already do to much of), rather than handling one particular externalized form of the metadata and then passing the object model around? -- Scott Stark Chief Technology Officer JBoss Group, LLC Holger Baxmann @ mac wrote: ... Scott's posted some of the requirements in the past, e.g. removing all the xml fluff. Let the container deal with the metadata as objects. Mhhhm, this will make some Objects statefull in the view of Ms. Meta. Decoupling of all content (class instances) from all semantics (cl/assembler) would be better IMHO. One of the key issues is supporting the old deployments, by translating them into the new object model. jaxb doesn't cut it, it has limited/no support for changing schemas or an already established object model. The XSD is the Object Model regardless of the content of the referenced XML, so one may apply different XSD on the same XML - or even on the XSD's. Ok, at last you may generate the .java's :))) 2.4 DD+2.4XSD - XSLT - 4.xXSD+4.xDD; 4.xXSD+4.xCMPDD - XSLT - anyServiceDD RelaxNG friends could provide the direction. bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Thanks for pointing me at this :) I rather think of the special JBoss.org (in my case the not-JAAS-JavaSecurity, JMX, Service and Adapter parts) metamodel additions. Maybe sometimes a XSLT of the spec xsd will do the trick ;-))) thanks b/readingax When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC Is anybody working on this DTD - XSD transition ? Couldn't it be handy in this case, could it ? bax It's already done: http://java.sun.com/xml/ns/j2ee/ It's part of the 1.4 spec! Ricardo Argüello --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Give me an example of this meaningful description of an applied security model that needs to be mapped into a declarative j2ee security descriptor. -- Scott Stark Chief Technology Officer JBoss Group, LLC Holger Baxmann @ mac wrote: ... And, again: You can generate the whole code out of XSD meta and XML content in a standard way, but not vice versa. Java code is only a special case of formulating MEANING, it is ugly in this. XSD is make for describe MEANING. For example MEANING of an applied security model. Ok, it is regarding the level of the USER of JBoss, not the level of the coder of JBoss. Sorry for beeing one of the first. bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 06:36:33 -0800, Scott M Stark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Give me an example of this meaningful description of an applied security model that needs to be mapped into a declarative j2ee security descriptor. The security of the whole system, where j2ee is only a part of, is less secure than the weakest part. Maybe j2ee-jaas is the strongest here, but only maybe. So you will have either two different mapping systems about party,place,thing - time - role or you are using a standardized kind of security infrastruture. In both, the j2ee and the other parts of the solution. So it should be mapped below the j2ee security, in an osi-fied point of view :) Use java.securityManager. All j2ee .?ar's sealed into crosscertified CA's certs. j2ee could inherit the identities from this, at least the one of the server/instance. It is mostly all about what the 'Identity' mean - in Authorization, Authentification and Auditing - in my example X.509 certs (I know they do not really exist), self signed or CA based. So my example will be: Security as a process of working with jboss, using it, audit it - beyound these j2ee marketing stuff in the real world where you have the all-use-the-same-password-user and the i-should tell you the password syndromes, by resting the social engeneering of credentials. Strongest identification, not fakable. Scalable and effortless in usage. PK based VPN between several JBoss nodes in a cluster - secured. your turn bax -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
[JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Posting to jbosxs-dev. Let's keep it there please! Bill Bill Burke wrote: LETS TAKE THESE DISCUSSIONS TO JBOSS-DEV PLEASE! Yes, IMO, migration should be a separate distinct tool/step. We should not be maintaining past versions of deployment descriptors in 4.0, 3.2, or 3.0. Anybody know what other vendors do? Bill Scott M Stark wrote: That is a possibility that Bill suggested before, but it excludes the possibility of supporting hot deploy with migration, something we can do. They will be exposed to xsl if there is a problem with the migration. Maybe migration should be a separate step. Juha Lindfors wrote: Migration yes. But for that XSL would work just as well, you just run the script to convert between the descriptors, right? The admin is never actually exposed to reading or modifying the XSLT... ? -- Juha ___ the.core mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/the.core -- Bill Burke Chief Architect JBoss Group LLC. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
[JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Posting to jboss dev Juha Lindfors wrote: Getting the scripts done would be the first step and itself helpful for most current admins, regardless of the language used in the script. Once those exist, it should not be a huge step to integrate the scripts with a new MigrationSubDeployer that registers to accept any legacy descriptor DTD. It would eliminate the last step (running the script) from the process. The difference between the two is first one modifies the package to contain new up-to-date descriptors where you can now add new configuration supported by the newer document type. In the latter there's no additional work on the admin but package would not be updated with new document type, something you'd want people to do eventually. -- Bill Burke Chief Architect JBoss Group LLC. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Am 04.11.2003 um 17:22 schrieb Bill Burke: Posting to jbosxs-dev. Let's keep it there please! Bill Bill Burke wrote: LETS TAKE THESE DISCUSSIONS TO JBOSS-DEV PLEASE! Yes, IMO, migration should be a separate distinct tool/step. We should not be maintaining past versions of deployment descriptors in 4.0, 3.2, or 3.0. Anybody know what other vendors do? Bill Scott M Stark wrote: That is a possibility that Bill suggested before, but it excludes the possibility of supporting hot deploy with migration, something we can do. They will be exposed to xsl if there is a problem with the migration. Maybe migration should be a separate step. Juha Lindfors wrote: Migration yes. But for that XSL would work just as well, you just run the script to convert between the descriptors, right? The admin is never actually exposed to reading or modifying the XSLT... ? When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. IMHO bax -- Juha ___ the.core mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/the.core -- Bill Burke Chief Architect JBoss Group LLC. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Holger Baxmann - bitwind wrote: Bill Burke wrote: LETS TAKE THESE DISCUSSIONS TO JBOSS-DEV PLEASE! Yes, IMO, migration should be a separate distinct tool/step. We should not be maintaining past versions of deployment descriptors in 4.0, 3.2, or 3.0. Anybody know what other vendors do? Bill Scott M Stark wrote: That is a possibility that Bill suggested before, but it excludes the possibility of supporting hot deploy with migration, something we can do. They will be exposed to xsl if there is a problem with the migration. Maybe migration should be a separate step. Juha Lindfors wrote: Migration yes. But for that XSL would work just as well, you just run the script to convert between the descriptors, right? The admin is never actually exposed to reading or modifying the XSLT... ? When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC -- Juha IMHO bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Am 05.11.2003 um 02:53 schrieb Juha Lindfors: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Holger Baxmann - bitwind wrote: Bill Burke wrote: LETS TAKE THESE DISCUSSIONS TO JBOSS-DEV PLEASE! Yes, IMO, migration should be a separate distinct tool/step. We should not be maintaining past versions of deployment descriptors in 4.0, 3.2, or 3.0. Anybody know what other vendors do? Bill Scott M Stark wrote: That is a possibility that Bill suggested before, but it excludes the possibility of supporting hot deploy with migration, something we can do. They will be exposed to xsl if there is a problem with the migration. Maybe migration should be a separate step. Juha Lindfors wrote: Migration yes. But for that XSL would work just as well, you just run the script to convert between the descriptors, right? The admin is never actually exposed to reading or modifying the XSLT... ? When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC Is anybody working on this DTD - XSD transition ? Couldn't it be handy in this case, could it ? bax -- Juha IMHO bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 01:53, Juha Lindfors wrote: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Holger Baxmann - bitwind wrote: Bill Burke wrote: LETS TAKE THESE DISCUSSIONS TO JBOSS-DEV PLEASE! Yes, IMO, migration should be a separate distinct tool/step. We should not be maintaining past versions of deployment descriptors in 4.0, 3.2, or 3.0. Anybody know what other vendors do? Bill Scott M Stark wrote: That is a possibility that Bill suggested before, but it excludes the possibility of supporting hot deploy with migration, something we can do. They will be exposed to xsl if there is a problem with the migration. Maybe migration should be a separate step. Juha Lindfors wrote: Migration yes. But for that XSL would work just as well, you just run the script to convert between the descriptors, right? The admin is never actually exposed to reading or modifying the XSLT... ? When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC Why don't we start different threads for different issues? This thread start out as discussing making management easier. e.g. Joe Windows Admin wants a GUI Wizard entitled Configure datasource preferably one that does not ask if he writing letter :-) How does Joe hates-GUIs programmer (i.e. me) maintain that wizard and other management interfaces when I add configuration options to the jdbc rars or db specifc plugins? The datasource is a good/pathological example because it also includes advanced configurations like the CMP mappings, jbossmq persistence config and the pad=true xid for Oracle. Showing disparate metadata needs to be combined in the management view/tool. Regards, Adrian -- Juha IMHO bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development -- Adrian Brock Director of Support Back Office JBoss Group, LLC --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 02:08, Holger Baxmann @ mac wrote: Am 05.11.2003 um 02:53 schrieb Juha Lindfors: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Holger Baxmann - bitwind wrote: Bill Burke wrote: LETS TAKE THESE DISCUSSIONS TO JBOSS-DEV PLEASE! Yes, IMO, migration should be a separate distinct tool/step. We should not be maintaining past versions of deployment descriptors in 4.0, 3.2, or 3.0. Anybody know what other vendors do? Bill Scott M Stark wrote: That is a possibility that Bill suggested before, but it excludes the possibility of supporting hot deploy with migration, something we can do. They will be exposed to xsl if there is a problem with the migration. Maybe migration should be a separate step. Juha Lindfors wrote: Migration yes. But for that XSL would work just as well, you just run the script to convert between the descriptors, right? The admin is never actually exposed to reading or modifying the XSLT... ? When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC Is anybody working on this DTD - XSD transition ? Couldn't it be handy in this case, could it ? Hi think Dr Jung has done something for web services, otherwise did you just volunteer? Regards, Adrian bax -- Juha IMHO bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development -- Adrian Brock Director of Support Back Office JBoss Group, LLC --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Am 05.11.2003 um 02:53 schrieb Juha Lindfors: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Holger Baxmann - bitwind wrote: Bill Burke wrote: LETS TAKE THESE DISCUSSIONS TO JBOSS-DEV PLEASE! Yes, IMO, migration should be a separate distinct tool/step. We should not be maintaining past versions of deployment descriptors in 4.0, 3.2, or 3.0. Anybody know what other vendors do? Bill Scott M Stark wrote: That is a possibility that Bill suggested before, but it excludes the possibility of supporting hot deploy with migration, something we can do. They will be exposed to xsl if there is a problem with the migration. Maybe migration should be a separate step. Juha Lindfors wrote: Migration yes. But for that XSL would work just as well, you just run the script to convert between the descriptors, right? The admin is never actually exposed to reading or modifying the XSLT... ? When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC Is anybody working on this DTD - XSD transition ? Couldn't it be handy in this case, could it ? bax -- Juha IMHO bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Am 05.11.2003 um 03:11 schrieb Adrian Brock: On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 02:08, Holger Baxmann @ mac wrote: When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC Is anybody working on this DTD - XSD transition ? Couldn't it be handy in this case, could it ? Hi think Dr Jung has done something for web services, otherwise did you just volunteer? I may have a look at this in my really spare time ... have a maybe-job for a winxp virtual device driver ;-))) I know about the beauty and the beast in XSD. Any sources of info/man/doc about the DTD content except the source? bax Regards, Adrian bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 02:22, Holger Baxmann @ mac wrote: Am 05.11.2003 um 03:11 schrieb Adrian Brock: On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 02:08, Holger Baxmann @ mac wrote: When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC Is anybody working on this DTD - XSD transition ? Couldn't it be handy in this case, could it ? Hi think Dr Jung has done something for web services, otherwise did you just volunteer? I may have a look at this in my really spare time ... have a maybe-job for a winxp virtual device driver ;-))) I know about the beauty and the beast in XSD. Any sources of info/man/doc about the DTD content except the source? Scott's posted some of the requirements in the past, e.g. removing all the xml fluff. Let the container deal with the metadata as objects. One of the key issues is supporting the old deployments, by translating them into the new object model. jaxb doesn't cut it, it has limited/no support for changing schemas or an already established object model. Regards, Adrian bax Regards, Adrian bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development -- Adrian Brock Director of Support Back Office JBoss Group, LLC --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Adrian Brock wrote: When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC Is anybody working on this DTD - XSD transition ? Couldn't it be handy in this case, could it ? Hi think Dr Jung has done something for web services, otherwise did you just volunteer? IIRC there's a tool at W3C that converts your DTD to XSD. Then you need to add the semantic part to the schema. -- Juha --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Adrian Brock wrote: How does Joe hates-GUIs programmer (i.e. me) maintain that wizard and other management interfaces when I add configuration options to the jdbc rars or db specifc plugins? You don't. That's the fundamental problem with a rich GUI ;-) -- Juha --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Am 05.11.2003 um 03:08 schrieb Adrian Brock: On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 01:53, Juha Lindfors wrote: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Holger Baxmann - bitwind wrote: Bill Burke wrote: LETS TAKE THESE DISCUSSIONS TO JBOSS-DEV PLEASE! Yes, IMO, migration should be a separate distinct tool/step. We should not be maintaining past versions of deployment descriptors in 4.0, 3.2, or 3.0. Anybody know what other vendors do? Bill Scott M Stark wrote: That is a possibility that Bill suggested before, but it excludes the possibility of supporting hot deploy with migration, something we can do. They will be exposed to xsl if there is a problem with the migration. Maybe migration should be a separate step. Juha Lindfors wrote: Migration yes. But for that XSL would work just as well, you just run the script to convert between the descriptors, right? The admin is never actually exposed to reading or modifying the XSLT... ? When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC Why don't we start different threads for different issues? This thread start out as discussing making management easier. e.g. Joe Windows Admin wants a GUI Wizard entitled Configure datasource preferably one that does not ask if he writing letter :-) How does Joe hates-GUIs programmer (i.e. me) maintain that wizard and other management interfaces when I add configuration options to the jdbc rars or db specifc plugins? The datasource is a good/pathological example because it also includes advanced configurations like the CMP mappings, jbossmq persistence config and the pad=true xid for Oracle. Showing disparate metadata needs to be combined in the management view/tool. But this is exactly the use-case for a xsd-xslt. JBoss.org is providing a wholesale XML based on a wholesale XSD and joe average is xslt'ing it to fit his needs. Or bax is able to customize the build-test-deploy-configure cycle for his client without trial-and-error-sometime-look-into-the-source crap. Why not generating the gui out of the xsd? Why not using the jdbc metadata for datasource config by changing the appropriate xml schema description, naturally on the fly at invocation time? What about a metadata interceptor? ;-) Same content - different semantics. bax Regards, Adrian -- Juha IMHO bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development -- Adrian Brock Director of Support Back Office JBoss Group, LLC --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Am 05.11.2003 um 03:25 schrieb Adrian Brock: On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 02:22, Holger Baxmann @ mac wrote: Am 05.11.2003 um 03:11 schrieb Adrian Brock: On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 02:08, Holger Baxmann @ mac wrote: When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC Is anybody working on this DTD - XSD transition ? Couldn't it be handy in this case, could it ? Hi think Dr Jung has done something for web services, otherwise did you just volunteer? I may have a look at this in my really spare time ... have a maybe-job for a winxp virtual device driver ;-))) I know about the beauty and the beast in XSD. Any sources of info/man/doc about the DTD content except the source? Scott's posted some of the requirements in the past, e.g. removing all the xml fluff. Let the container deal with the metadata as objects. Mhhhm, this will make some Objects statefull in the view of Ms. Meta. Decoupling of all content (class instances) from all semantics (cl/assembler) would be better IMHO. One of the key issues is supporting the old deployments, by translating them into the new object model. jaxb doesn't cut it, it has limited/no support for changing schemas or an already established object model. The XSD is the Object Model regardless of the content of the referenced XML, so one may apply different XSD on the same XML - or even on the XSD's. Ok, at last you may generate the .java's :))) 2.4 DD+2.4XSD - XSLT - 4.xXSD+4.xDD; 4.xXSD+4.xCMPDD - XSLT - anyServiceDD RelaxNG friends could provide the direction. bax Regards, Adrian bax Regards, Adrian bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development -- Adrian Brock Director of Support Back Office JBoss Group, LLC --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Its required for j2ee1.4, but you don't need an xsd to use xsl to transform and xml document. -- Scott Stark Chief Technology Officer JBoss Group, LLC Holger Baxmann - bitwind wrote: When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. IMHO bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Explain how xsd is actually the object model in terms of what the metadata handling code is using. Its directly manipulating xml instances that conform to the xsd or is there is a binding of the xsd to a java object model? If there is a binding, then that is the object model, not the xsd as that is what the code is dependent on. Why would I want to directly use some xml api and propagate around dependencies on xml parsing (which we already do to much of), rather than handling one particular externalized form of the metadata and then passing the object model around? -- Scott Stark Chief Technology Officer JBoss Group, LLC Holger Baxmann @ mac wrote: ... Scott's posted some of the requirements in the past, e.g. removing all the xml fluff. Let the container deal with the metadata as objects. Mhhhm, this will make some Objects statefull in the view of Ms. Meta. Decoupling of all content (class instances) from all semantics (cl/assembler) would be better IMHO. One of the key issues is supporting the old deployments, by translating them into the new object model. jaxb doesn't cut it, it has limited/no support for changing schemas or an already established object model. The XSD is the Object Model regardless of the content of the referenced XML, so one may apply different XSD on the same XML - or even on the XSD's. Ok, at last you may generate the .java's :))) 2.4 DD+2.4XSD - XSLT - 4.xXSD+4.xDD; 4.xXSD+4.xCMPDD - XSLT - anyServiceDD RelaxNG friends could provide the direction. bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
Re: [JBoss-dev] Re: [Core] WG: Comparison between BEA JBoss
Holger Baxmann - bitwind wrote: Am 05.11.2003 um 02:53 schrieb Juha Lindfors: On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Holger Baxmann - bitwind wrote: Bill Burke wrote: LETS TAKE THESE DISCUSSIONS TO JBOSS-DEV PLEASE! Yes, IMO, migration should be a separate distinct tool/step. We should not be maintaining past versions of deployment descriptors in 4.0, 3.2, or 3.0. Anybody know what other vendors do? Bill Scott M Stark wrote: That is a possibility that Bill suggested before, but it excludes the possibility of supporting hot deploy with migration, something we can do. They will be exposed to xsl if there is a problem with the migration. Maybe migration should be a separate step. Juha Lindfors wrote: Migration yes. But for that XSL would work just as well, you just run the script to convert between the descriptors, right? The admin is never actually exposed to reading or modifying the XSLT... ? When does JBoss.org have the meta-model of the whole stuff defined in XSD and throuw the ugly DTD's away? Then one is able to appy XSLT on the XSD's and all migration things belonging to the meta-level are handled by the meta-level. EJB 2.1 J2EE 1.4 IIRC Is anybody working on this DTD - XSD transition ? Couldn't it be handy in this case, could it ? bax It's already done: http://java.sun.com/xml/ns/j2ee/ It's part of the 1.4 spec! Ricardo Argüello -- Juha IMHO bax --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SF.net Giveback Program. Does SourceForge.net help you be more productive? Does it help you create better code? SHARE THE LOVE, and help us help YOU! Click Here: http://sourceforge.net/donate/ ___ JBoss-Development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
