[JDEV] (no subject)
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[JDEV] Customizing Jabber server
Hello, I'm new to IM and also to Jabber of course. I'm working on a project which purpose is to plug some Jabber functionalities into an Application server. So I'm looking to informations on how to customize the Jabber server so that it could delegate some requests like authentication, rosters, etc to the Application server I had a look to the server sources but didn't exactly found the entry points to start from. Any Idea ? Thanks -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Atlantide - http://www.ago.fr/atlantide/ Technopole Brest Iroise BP 80802 - Site du Vernis - 29608 Brest cedex - France Tel. : +33 2 98 05 43 21 - Fax. : +33 2 98 05 20 34 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Centre Affaires Oberthur - 74D, rue de Paris - 35700 Rennes - France Tel. : +33 2 99 84 15 84 - Fax : +33 2 99 84 15 85 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Re: [JDEV] Customizing Jabber server
we're working on similar types of issues and my take on it this... jabber isn't an application server itself. it facilitates the routing of messages to the appropriate destination - normally a human for chat. of course the destination can be an agent or a transport with business/application logic coded for a purpose which returns some data or whatever. an agent could be a stock watcher, a weather man, a news grabber, data mine - the list is endless. you can write an agent in almost any language with all the cool tools the dev guys have done - Net::Jabber, JabberCOM, JabberBeans, etc... i'm partial to JabberBeans 'cause we do a lot of Java programming. then again, as JAM develops, jabber could become more application server-ish. not sure if that's the sorta explanation you're looking for, but i hope it helps. and if i'm wrong or off base in any way, someone let me know! ;-) -wasted On Wed, 9 May 2001, Gerard BUNEL wrote: Not exactly if my understanding of jabber protocol is correct. I beleive that the Jabber server acts simply as a router for messages whose destination is another server. But in my case, the Jabber user is also an Application Server user. So I try to not constraint the user to log twice for example I also want that some data already managed by the Application Server could be used as Jabber user's Data (vCard, Rosters, etc...). My first starting point seems to be XDB module. If my understanding is correct I should have to patch or replace the default xdb_file so that all persistent data could be completely managed by the Application Server. But, in that case, what about authentication data for example. Should they really be retreived from the Application Server. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Re: [JDEV] Customizing Jabber server
Part of the reason for the Jabber Foundation is to separate the linking between the Jabber protocol and an 'official' Jabber server implementation. Hopefully one of the many tasks the foundation will handle is clarifying some of the rough edges in the current client and interserver protocol, and possibly define some standards for intraserver protocol (for different server implementations to be capable of sharing the same components) -David Waite Peter Saint-Andre wrote: I've been wondering why the Jabber Server hasn't been implemented in other languages such as Java or Python with Um, 'cause it's a lot of work? :) But seriously, we are currently working to document the internal protocols for the server, and once we have those it will be much easier to write servers in other languages. I know of one effort underway (by Iain Shigeoka) to write a server in Java, but I'm sure others would be interested in Perl, Python, C++, etc. I think these will happen over time, but it ain't easy Peter -- Peter Saint-Andre [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] Strange Packets
I don't find anything in the source code. Randy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Todd Bradley Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 12:45 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [JDEV] Strange Packets Maybe this is a stupid question, but have you already looked into the possibility that one of your users has an offline message for someone at that address and the server-to-server component is trying to deliver it? Todd. -Original Message- From: Denny Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 10:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [JDEV] Strange Packets Does anyone know why when I start up my jabber server that it starts sending out packets to kelvinator.websavvy.com? Has anyone else looked at sniffer traffic of jabber, and are you seeing the same thing? Thanks, -- Denny Chambers ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Implementing Jabber Server in other Languages (Was RE: [JDEV] Customizing Jabber server)
Title: Implementing Jabber Server in other Languages (Was RE: [JDEV] Customizing Jabber server) I've been wondering why the Jabber Server hasn't been implemented in other languages such as Java or Python with C calls to the appropriate libs. It seems that multiple server platform implementations could only help in the adoption of Jabber. This is something I've been thinking about for a while, and would like to open up to some discussion. I really don't see implementation of Jabber in other languages as being that practical or necessary. I must confess, I really don't like changing server code to change server behavior (registration, I'm looking at you). But, I really can't see how/when/where/why a server in, say Python is all that advantageous, save for its multiplatform capabilities. But, I must say, given the speed Jabber must work to route messages, I don't see a Python (or any other language of your choice) server as a) useful b) practical This demands the inside-out reworking of the Jabber server in a variety of languages, and the development of alternate servers that can anticipate future changes to Jabber internal protocols and such. Now - the ability to change certain server behaviors does make itself attractive, and is a pretty compelling argument for implementing Jabber in other languages, but I'm not sure there aren't simply better ways around this, particularly ones that don't require wholesale server rewrite whenever fundamental changes in the default Jabber server occur. I think the focus of current server developers should be to first document all internal protocols - (s2s and xdb being fine examples), and then to worry about making Jabber as portable as possible. I've got a pretty hefty RS6K sitting next to my desk begging to run Jabber, but even IBM's porting efforts have only been partially successful. Which, in many ways - is a pretty strong argument for much more platform-agnostic languages (perl, python, java), but I think we need to look at Apache as a good model. Yes, I know that Apache is only a server (well not so much these days) and Jabber is a set of related technologies, but I feel that making the current Jabber server as fast/friendly/portable as possible is the real key here, and maintaining a variety of separate server implementations would be... On second thought - David Waite's right - we have to look at separating protocol from server implementation. You know - I just contradicted myself. Matthew D. Diez [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [JDEV] Strange Packets
No worries. Jabber.org port 5222 ends up going to kelvinator.websavvy.com. My guess is it's doing some forwarding. Go ahead and telnet to jabber.org at port 5222. Do a netstat.. 8) From: Denny Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [JDEV] Strange Packets Does anyone know why when I start up my jabber server that it starts sending out packets to kelvinator.websavvy.com? Has anyone else looked at sniffer traffic of jabber, and are you seeing the same thing? ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
[JDEV] performance numbers.. questions
I am actually now getting some hard numbers from the jabbertest tools. One test I ran connected 1000 users to a Jabber server running on a Pentium III 600 with 192MB of RAM. I saw some odd results. But first, here is how the test works: active_jab basically connects 1..n users serially, and sends x messages when each user connects. It does NOT send messages concurrently for each connected user. (Although that would be an excellent feature--to be added soon!) Instead, if you want to simulate multiple users sending messages at the same time to the same server then you just run muliple instances of active_jab on the same or different client machines. (Very simple.) The basic idea is: for user 1..n do connect user to jabber send x messages and track delivery times done for user 1..n do disconnect user from jabber done Memory === First of all, I assumed that Jabber would consume a lot of memory, which turned out to be a wrong assumption. I saw my %memused jump from a rough minimum of 81% to maybe 95%. My %swpused did not change significantly, which indicates that I had enough core memory for the job. (Remember Linux always uses as much memory as it can for buffers, so the starting value of 81% isn't surprising.) The big issue here is that there was only a small jump--around 14%. CPU === Big surprise here. Jabber seems to *quickly* begin eating CPU cycles as the number of connected users increases. Here is some data: users idle user sys 0 99% 1%0% 200 70% 24% 3% 500 45% 50% 5% 800 30% 64% 6% 100020% 70% 10% (Yes, the totals may be more or less that 100%. I am getting these numbers from graphs and quickly jotting them down.) Note that Jabber is consuming 24% of the CPU at 200 users on a Pentium III 600. I also noticed that as more users are connected the message delivery time decreased. The progession was slow.. usually going from 0 seconds to 2 seconds as the number of users went from 0..1000. But still.. why is that? Remember I am not sending message concurrently. Instead, as each user connects active_jab sends x messages (defaults to 5), and then proceeds to the next user. I would like some feedback on this data. Does this look like what everyone else has been experiencing? Are my numbers out of wack?! What other numbers would be useful? I think the next logical step is to run active_jab on several machines at once. That way we can test how many *concurrent* users can connect and send messages. Regards, Dustin -- Dustin Puryear [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear In the beginning the Universe was created. This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
[JDEV] RE: Implementing Jabber Server in other Languages (Was RE: [JDEV]Cus tomizing Jabber server)
It seems like the prototyping point here is the strongest. From a perf perspective, C/C++ all the way seems pretty important for carriers and large ISPs (like us if I may be so bold), but not for people tooling around with new features... If we all agree with this, the nice thing might be that a second/alternate language version would have an EXPLICIT goal of being readable and modifiable and NOT being efficient or cheaply/quickly scalable. Of course, we'd never agree on the language, so there'd end up being 10. -Original Message- From: John Hebert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 3:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Implementing Jabber Server in other Languages (Was RE: [JDEV] Cus tomizing Jabber server) 5/9/01 8:03:42 AM, Matt Diez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really don't see implementation of Jabber in other languages as being that practical or necessary. I must confess, I really don't like changing server code to change server behavior (registration, I'm looking at you). But, I really can't see how/when/where/why a server in, say Python is all that advantageous, Quicker to prototype and test new capabilities, for one. Lots of XML libs/tools for another. Python works best as a glue scripting language between components. save for its multiplatform capabilities. But, I must say, given the speed Jabber must work to route messages, That's why I mentioned calling C binaries from Python or language X if needed. Also, performance may not be a priority. I can imagine using the jabber server for other tasks besides IM chatting. I don't see a Python (or any other language of your choice) server as a) useful b) practical Oh yeah? Moldy bread. This demands the inside-out reworking of the Jabber server in a variety of languages, and the development of alternate servers that can anticipate future changes to Jabber internal protocols and such. Interesting. Kinda like Apache httpd's DSO modules. Now - the ability to change certain server behaviors does make itself attractive, and is a pretty compelling argument for implementing Jabber in other languages, but I'm not sure there aren't simply better ways around this, particularly ones that don't require wholesale server rewrite whenever fundamental changes in the default Jabber server occur. I'm getting confused... didn't you just say something to the contrary before this? And don't you mean protocol instead of your last use of server in the above paragraph? If so, agreed, server rewrites for protocol changes is icky. I think the focus of current server developers should be to first document all internal protocols - (s2s and xdb being fine examples), and then to worry about making Jabber as portable as possible. I've got a pretty hefty RS6K sitting next to my desk begging to run Jabber, but even IBM's porting efforts have only been partially successful. Yup, you are correct. St. Peter mentioned that this work is being done. Bring out the cat o' nine tails. Which, in many ways - is a pretty strong argument for much more platform-agnostic languages (perl, python, java), but I think we need to look at Apache as a good model. Are you skipping on your Lithium again? Yes, I know that Apache is only a server (well not so much these days) and Jabber is a set of related technologies, but I feel that making the current Jabber server as fast/friendly/portable as possible is the real key here, and maintaining a variety of separate server implementations would be... Jabber = related technologies? That's not what I thought Jer had in mind. On second thought - David Waite's right - we have to look at separating protocol from server implementation. My point all along. Apache has the W3C. What does Jabber have? Do we need a separate jabber protocol effort separate from the server devel effort? You know - I just contradicted myself. I'm getting used to it. -- John Hebert System Engineer http://www.vedalabs.com Changing your state of mind through sound. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] RE: Implementing Jabber Server in other Languages (Was RE: [JDEV] Cus tomizing Jabber server)
It seems like the prototyping point here is the strongest. From a perf perspective, C/C++ all the way seems pretty important for carriers and large ISPs (like us if I may be so bold), but not for people tooling around with new features... If we all agree with this, the nice thing might be that a second/alternate language version would have an EXPLICIT goal of being readable and modifiable and NOT being efficient or cheaply/quickly scalable. These goals are not mutually exclusive. The meeting/common point is called elegance. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
[JDEV] Possible Fix for SSL Woes
I was helping reatmon fix his server for SSL usage and it turns out he had the same error as everyone else, so I poked it a bit and behold I found an answer. Line 168 of mio_ssl.c (jabberd directory) Change: if(SSL_accept(ssl) = 0) to if(SSL_accept(ssl) 0) I guess the = 0 was from my usage of 0.9.6 and newer versions, the problem crept in from 0.9.5 versions. It probably should be just a 0 scenario anyway. Please let me know if this works. --temas ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
[JDEV] Re: Implementing Jabber Server in other Languages (Was RE: [JDEV]Cus tomizing Jabber server)
I personally (and I believe jer too) would love love love to see the server implemented in other languages. The more options available the stronger I can see the growth of Jabber as a whole. The whole reason we have a common protocol is so we can have many servers. Yes, some of the servers may not scale as well, some might not expose more advanced functionality, but having a more dynamic server to test on could be helpful in many scenarios. Just had to throw in my $0.02 --temas On 09 May 2001 14:42:37 -0500, John Hebert wrote: 5/9/01 8:03:42 AM, Matt Diez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really don't see implementation of Jabber in other languages as being that practical or necessary. I must confess, I really don't like changing server code to change server behavior (registration, I'm looking at you). But, I really can't see how/when/where/why a server in, say Python is all that advantageous, Quicker to prototype and test new capabilities, for one. Lots of XML libs/tools for another. Python works best as a glue scripting language between components. save for its multiplatform capabilities. But, I must say, given the speed Jabber must work to route messages, That's why I mentioned calling C binaries from Python or language X if needed. Also, performance may not be a priority. I can imagine using the jabber server for other tasks besides IM chatting. I don't see a Python (or any other language of your choice) server as a) useful b) practical Oh yeah? Moldy bread. This demands the inside-out reworking of the Jabber server in a variety of languages, and the development of alternate servers that can anticipate future changes to Jabber internal protocols and such. Interesting. Kinda like Apache httpd's DSO modules. Now - the ability to change certain server behaviors does make itself attractive, and is a pretty compelling argument for implementing Jabber in other languages, but I'm not sure there aren't simply better ways around this, particularly ones that don't require wholesale server rewrite whenever fundamental changes in the default Jabber server occur. I'm getting confused... didn't you just say something to the contrary before this? And don't you mean protocol instead of your last use of server in the above paragraph? If so, agreed, server rewrites for protocol changes is icky. I think the focus of current server developers should be to first document all internal protocols - (s2s and xdb being fine examples), and then to worry about making Jabber as portable as possible. I've got a pretty hefty RS6K sitting next to my desk begging to run Jabber, but even IBM's porting efforts have only been partially successful. Yup, you are correct. St. Peter mentioned that this work is being done. Bring out the cat o' nine tails. Which, in many ways - is a pretty strong argument for much more platform-agnostic languages (perl, python, java), but I think we need to look at Apache as a good model. Are you skipping on your Lithium again? Yes, I know that Apache is only a server (well not so much these days) and Jabber is a set of related technologies, but I feel that making the current Jabber server as fast/friendly/portable as possible is the real key here, and maintaining a variety of separate server implementations would be... Jabber = related technologies? That's not what I thought Jer had in mind. On second thought - David Waite's right - we have to look at separating protocol from server implementation. My point all along. Apache has the W3C. What does Jabber have? Do we need a separate jabber protocol effort separate from the server devel effort? You know - I just contradicted myself. I'm getting used to it. -- John Hebert System Engineer http://www.vedalabs.com Changing your state of mind through sound. ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Re: [JDEV] performance numbers.. questions
Hey, Dustin, congratulations on actually getting real-live numbers! Getting a test harness working is a tremendous accomplishment! Thanks! At 02:52 PM 5/9/01 -0500, you wrote: ...here is how the test works: active_jab basically connects 1..n users serially, and sends x messages when each user connects. It does NOT send messages concurrently for each connected user. If I understand you, the sequence of events is this, for each user: a. connect b. log in. c. send x messages as fast as possible. d. stay connected, but stop sending messages. When you run the test, you run these steps for each virtual user in turn. Right? Some questions about your test sequence: --Does the log-in step also create an account for the virtual user? --What kind of authentication are you using? --To what user do the x messages get sent? --Is the recipient online or are the messages getting stashed in jspool? --Does the volume of the x messages sent cross the karma threshold? You proposed this scenario: for user 1..n do connect user to jabber send x messages and track delivery times done for user 1..n do disconnect user from jabber done I'd like to see tests that figure out the load that comes on when many users connect and authenticate at once. The question to ask might be, -- when 500 users are already connected to jabber but not doing much, how many new user connections can jabber accept each second? A subsidiary question might be how the choice of authentication method affects this, and how the choice of xdb_file or other jspool module affects it. Another subsidiary question might be how many NEW user accounts can be created in a second. I'd like to see tests that figure out the load that comes on when many connected users send lots of messages. The question to ask might be, -- when 1000 users are already connected, how many messages a second can each user send to some other user -- what's the message throughput? Memory === First of all, I assumed that Jabber would consume a lot of memory, which turned out to be a wrong assumption. This agrees with my observation. Our jabber setup typically runs with several hundred users connected -- and neither jabberd nor the half-dozen jpollds we operate take much memory at all. (Check out our jabber-enabled music community at http://dotclick.com.) CPU=== Big surprise here. Jabber seems to *quickly* begin eating CPU cycles as the number of connected users increases. Here is some data: Our jabberd and jpollds take very little CPU time, but our users stay connected for long periods and typically don't send huge numbers of messages -- dozens a day. Your high CPU usage may be due to overhead on new connections, or overhead on karma-throttling virtual users who are sending big bursts of data. Great progress. Ollie Jones ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
RE: [JDEV] RE: Implementing Jabber Server in other Languages (Was RE: [JDEV] Cus tomizing Jabber server)
All too true (your being right, of course). But the elegance concept is a philosphy, not based on any language. Far too few who call themselves programmers possess it. -Original Message- From: Max Metral [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 14:07 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [JDEV] RE: Implementing Jabber Server in other Languages (Was RE: [JDEV] Cus tomizing Jabber server) ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
[JDEV] returning all spool directory members
Can anyone tell me what the jabber protocol call is to return the users? I can't seem to find docs on it. greg ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
Re: [JDEV] Re: Implementing Jabber Server in other Languages (Was RE: [JDEV]
Rahul Dave wrote: Java would be ideal from a portability standpoint, and jython or jpe means I can have my scripting too.. And then this almost forgotten but still very much alive language Smalltalk, especially the open source variant Squeak (squeak.org). It even runs on a Playstation II. There are two partially complete Jabber clients written in Squeak, but both at this time not really publicly available. Just to add to the language war ;-) Michael ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
[JDEV] Multithreading in XDB?
Hi all! I'm new to jabber server development,and I want to connect jabberd into my database. The xdb access seems to be single threading. Does it efficient enough to handle heavy traffic,e.g. thousands of clients online synchronously? Regards ___ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.jabber.org/listinfo/jdev
