[jdev] When to use extended service discovery vs jabber search
First post to the list - hi everyone! We develop the 'community' area of an online gaming site - basically using MUC with 20+ rooms ranging from almost empty to sometimes up to 500 odd occupants. The 'chat hosts' in these rooms are people with the moderator role. Where possible we follow the protocols rather than implement our own. I need to return a packet to the end user that contains a brief summary of the rooms, consisting of basic room information (name, description) plus room occupancy and which moderators are currently in the room. I'm stumped for her to do this, as no XEP seems to fit the bill: Basic Service Discovery (0030) - In order to retrieve full information about an entity and its associated items, the requesting application needs to "walk the tree" of items. Naturally, this can result in a large number of requests and responses. The requesting application SHOULD NOT send follow-up requests to all items associated with an entity if the list of such items is long (e.g., more than twenty items). Problem - There will likely be more than 20 rooms to query individually. Extended Service Discovery (0128) - An entity MUST NOT supply extended information about associated children communicated via the 'http://jabber.org/protocol/disco#items' namespace, since a core principle of Service Discovery is that an entity must define its own identity only and must not define the identity of any children associated with the entity. Problem - As the entity being queried here (I imagine) is the MUC service itself, am I breaking protocol by asking for a lot of information about it's children? Jabber search doesn't seem quite right as it doesn't feel like a search - I always query for the same information so service discovery seems the natural fit. Any help would be greatly appreciated : ) Michael ___ JDev mailing list Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
[jdev] Fwd: RFP: Requirements Development for Community Draft Tracking Tool
Thought this may be of interest to people. I'd imagine that such a tool, carefully crafted, would be of use to the XSF if licensing allowed. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:d...@cridland.net - xmpp:d...@dave.cridland.net - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade --- Begin Message --- The IETF Administrative Oversight Committee (IAOC), on behalf of the IETF, announces this Request for Proposal to develop the requirements for a community draft tracking tool. The successful bidder will enter into a contract with the Internet Society. The primary goal of this project is to develop consensus on a set of requirements for extending the Data Tracker to give individual IETF community members, including IETF leadership, easy methods for tracking the progress of the Internet Drafts (I-Ds) of interest to them. The tools that will eventually be provided to individuals in the community include the ability to create one or more (possibly large) lists of I-Ds that they want to follow; the ability to get notifications when individual drafts from a list changes state; the ability to see all of the state changes that have occurred on all the drafts in a list over a specified range of dates; the ability to set the granularity of the changes (such as "every change", "just approvals and publication", and so on); the ability to organize their views of a list in many fashions that would be useful to different types of community members; and the ability to share and merge lists with other community members. Because there many different types of community members, there needs to be a significant amount of outreach when creating these requirements. This outreach includes a separate mailing list for discussion, a face-to-face BoF at IETF 79 in Beijing, virtual meetings after IETF 79, and directed communications with specific communities such as the I* groups, WG chairs, and SDOs with whom the IETF has liaison relationships. The expected outcome is requirements for multiple methods for an individual to interact with the system that will eventually be deployed. The RFP can be found at: http://iaoc.ietf.org/rfpsrfis.html. Proposals must be received via email at rpellet...@isoc.org no later than October 11, 2010, 5:00 P.M. EDT. All questions/inquiries must be submitted in writing and must be received no later than midnight, EDT, September 27, 2010. Responses to questions and inquiries shall be posted on the IAOC website, iaoc.ietf.org/rfpsrfis.html by midnight, EDT, October 4, 2010. The point of contact regarding this RFP is the IETF Administrative Director, Ray Pelletier. Ray Pelletier IETF Administrative Director ___ Ietf mailing list i...@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf --- End Message --- ___ JDev mailing list Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
Re: [jdev] Best ways for a JID to advertise what services it uses?
On Tuesday 21 September 2010 07:15:40 Dave Cridland wrote: > On Tue Sep 21 14:34:54 2010, Stephen Pendleton wrote: > > The answer to this is key to interoperability for pubsub. If I can't > > discover the location your nodes I cannot interoperate with you. > > Right, and the ideal answer is to use PEP - or rather, > pubsub-onna-jid. > > But in some cases you don't want to (because your PEP service is > minimal) or can't (because you have no PEP at all). > > It's not yet clear to me that a solution is possible. And maybe you're not always looking for a pubsub service. There's all sorts of additional metadata and application logic that one might want to associate with a user account. However, it's not practical that every XMPP user account server in the world implement every extension. And having to limit your application to only those user accounts with special baked-in extensions sucks. At Livefyre, we've attempted to solve this problem by introducing the idea of delegate services. Instead of adding extensions to the user accounts themselves, any arbitrary user account is able associate itself with a delegate service which provides the extensions. The problem with this, of course, is the same as that of the pubsub problem: given a user account JID alone there is currently no way to know what or where the delegated services for that JID are. Something like this might help: http://jabber.org/protocol/delegate"/> http://jabber.org/protocol/delegate";> Just tossing it out as a rough idea to start from. -Justin ___ JDev mailing list Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
Re: [jdev] Best ways for a JID to advertise what services it uses?
Hi, On 21 September 2010 17:07, Dave Cridland wrote: > On Tue Sep 21 15:56:09 2010, Tuomas Koski wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> On 21 September 2010 16:15, Dave Cridland wrote: >> > On Tue Sep 21 14:34:54 2010, Stephen Pendleton wrote: >> >> >> >> The answer to this is key to interoperability for pubsub. If I can't >> >> discover the location your nodes I cannot interoperate with you. >> > >> > Right, and the ideal answer is to use PEP - or rather, pubsub-onna-jid. >> >> Yes ... but ... >> >> >> On 21 September 2010 16:15, Dave Cridland wrote: >> > But in some cases you don't want to (because your PEP service is >> > minimal) or >> > can't (because you have no PEP at all). >> >> Exactly. The above is my limitation. >> >> >> On 21 September 2010 16:15, Dave Cridland wrote: >> > It's not yet clear to me that a solution is possible. >> >> Yeah. I will do a demo using the LRDD. It will not be beautiful but I >> think it'll get us started. > > What we need is a case of fallbacks. > > So we expect to find a microblog in the pubsub service rooted at the user's > bare jid. > > Failing that, we expect to find a pointer advertised over PEP (Not ideal, > since this would mean every time I come online, I'll get a copy of your > advertisment). Yes, and the publisher of the "microblog notices" does not always want the microblog subscriber to be "associated with an instant messaging and presence account". On 21 September 2010 17:07, Dave Cridland wrote: > Failing that, we try webfinger/LRDD. > > Failing that, we see if the user's client(s) support some discovery method, > and use that. (A special disco node?). This is really not ideal, as we need > to catch the user online. > > Failing that, we assume that the user has no microblog unless configured. Thanks Dave! Great! That's way better than what I was about to offer. I'll do that. I think I can set up a demo pretty quickly. To be continued ... Br, -- Tuomas ___ JDev mailing list Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
Re: [jdev] Best ways for a JID to advertise what services it uses?
On Tue Sep 21 15:56:09 2010, Tuomas Koski wrote: Hi, On 21 September 2010 16:15, Dave Cridland wrote: > On Tue Sep 21 14:34:54 2010, Stephen Pendleton wrote: >> >> The answer to this is key to interoperability for pubsub. If I can't >> discover the location your nodes I cannot interoperate with you. > > Right, and the ideal answer is to use PEP - or rather, pubsub-onna-jid. Yes ... but ... On 21 September 2010 16:15, Dave Cridland wrote: > But in some cases you don't want to (because your PEP service is minimal) or > can't (because you have no PEP at all). Exactly. The above is my limitation. On 21 September 2010 16:15, Dave Cridland wrote: > It's not yet clear to me that a solution is possible. Yeah. I will do a demo using the LRDD. It will not be beautiful but I think it'll get us started. What we need is a case of fallbacks. So we expect to find a microblog in the pubsub service rooted at the user's bare jid. Failing that, we expect to find a pointer advertised over PEP (Not ideal, since this would mean every time I come online, I'll get a copy of your advertisment). Failing that, we try webfinger/LRDD. Failing that, we see if the user's client(s) support some discovery method, and use that. (A special disco node?). This is really not ideal, as we need to catch the user online. Failing that, we assume that the user has no microblog unless configured. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:d...@cridland.net - xmpp:d...@dave.cridland.net - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ JDev mailing list Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
Re: [jdev] Best ways for a JID to advertise what services it uses?
Hi, On 21 September 2010 16:15, Dave Cridland wrote: > On Tue Sep 21 14:34:54 2010, Stephen Pendleton wrote: >> >> The answer to this is key to interoperability for pubsub. If I can't >> discover the location your nodes I cannot interoperate with you. > > Right, and the ideal answer is to use PEP - or rather, pubsub-onna-jid. Yes ... but ... On 21 September 2010 16:15, Dave Cridland wrote: > But in some cases you don't want to (because your PEP service is minimal) or > can't (because you have no PEP at all). Exactly. The above is my limitation. On 21 September 2010 16:15, Dave Cridland wrote: > It's not yet clear to me that a solution is possible. Yeah. I will do a demo using the LRDD. It will not be beautiful but I think it'll get us started. Cheers, -- Tuomas ___ JDev mailing list Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
Re: [jdev] Best ways for a JID to advertise what services it uses?
On Tue Sep 21 14:34:54 2010, Stephen Pendleton wrote: The answer to this is key to interoperability for pubsub. If I can't discover the location your nodes I cannot interoperate with you. Right, and the ideal answer is to use PEP - or rather, pubsub-onna-jid. But in some cases you don't want to (because your PEP service is minimal) or can't (because you have no PEP at all). It's not yet clear to me that a solution is possible. Dave. -- Dave Cridland - mailto:d...@cridland.net - xmpp:d...@dave.cridland.net - acap://acap.dave.cridland.net/byowner/user/dwd/bookmarks/ - http://dave.cridland.net/ Infotrope Polymer - ACAP, IMAP, ESMTP, and Lemonade ___ JDev mailing list Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
Re: [jdev] Best ways for a JID to advertise what services it uses?
-Original Message- From: jdev-boun...@jabber.org [mailto:jdev-boun...@jabber.org] On Behalf Of Tuomas Koski Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 7:16 AM To: Jabber/XMPP software development list Subject: [jdev] Best ways for a JID to advertise what services it uses? >... >what are the best ways for a JID to advertise what services it uses ? >... >So, what would be the best way to archive the same using XMPP? I had this discussion a while ago on the same subject here: http://www.mail-archive.com/standa...@xmpp.org/msg07797.html The answer to this is key to interoperability for pubsub. If I can't discover the location your nodes I cannot interoperate with you. ___ JDev mailing list Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
[jdev] Best ways for a JID to advertise what services it uses?
Hi all, (I have been thinking about this quite a while now and I think it's better to ask from the smarter men) what are the best ways for a JID to advertise what services it uses ? Let's take an example: User mis...@gmail.com wants the whole wild XMPP world to be able to discover that her "microblog" can be found from URI "xmpp:pubsub.microblog.com.?;node=tech_lady", her global avatar can be found from "http://en.gravatar.com/12365432151321351.png"; and her "magic-public-key" is "just_an_example_magic-public-key". In the HTTP world this could be achieved by using for example http://code.google.com/p/webfinger/ . In short it works in a way that if one would like to discover ko...@lobstermonste.org's info, one would first query http://lobstermonster.org/.well-known/host-meta and then discover the LRDD of the user, in this case using the url http://www.lobstermonster.org/lrdd?uri=ko...@lobstermonster.org . So, what would be the best way to archive the same using XMPP? Cheers, -- Tuomas ___ JDev mailing list Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
Re: [jdev] XEP-0115 Caps Verification
Also, here's a patch to fix the HTML generated by capscan.
--
Will
# HG changeset patch
# User w...@willthompson.co.uk
# Date 1285060950 -3600
# Node ID db500386b9c4a4ff5b91367da2230f0c520a2f36
# Parent 9a4a18d111661f052a470883ee5e6c46f4d233af
Correctly close tag in report.html
diff -r 9a4a18d11166 -r db500386b9c4 capscan.lua
--- a/capscan.lua Sat Sep 18 18:57:41 2010 +0100
+++ b/capscan.lua Tue Sep 21 10:22:30 2010 +0100
@@ -89,7 +89,8 @@
]];
report:write("Entity capabilities validity for contacts of ", jid);
-report:write[[
+report:write[[
+
]];
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Re: [jdev] XEP-0115 Caps Verification
On 20/09/10 21:02, Matthew Wild wrote: 2 had invalid caps. Of those with invalid caps, one was a bot (mine, using gloox), the other was an N900 - but it may be that it returned an error or empty disco result rather than an invalid hash as such. Oh dear. :/ Any more details on the N900 failure? I briefly broke the hash generation there (when making it identify as a phone, not a pc) but re-tested at the time pretty thoroughly. Also, I ran your tool (nice!) and all the N900s on my roster check out fine. (Though I do wonder why the client name isn't showing up.) Cheers, -- Will ___ JDev mailing list Forum: http://www.jabberforum.org/forumdisplay.php?f=20 Info: http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev Unsubscribe: jdev-unsubscr...@jabber.org ___
