Re: [josm-dev] JOSM Plugin no_more_mapping

[Paul Hartmann]

On 10/19/2012 10:36 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Hi,

Someone noticed that there is a plugin called "no more mapping" which
claims to "stop JOSM from working forever".

The plugin has been added to SVN by user zverik and it seems to be a
relatively harmless prank. I don't know the motivation but if the
motivation was to demonstrate that even "bad" plugins can easily be
offered by JOSM to the unsuspecting user then it succeeded ;)

I will remove it from SVN now. Zverik, are you reading this? Can you
explain why you did that?


I think there is no harmful intent, but the target audience is power 
mappers that are suffering from OSM addiction. In this case the plugin 
is supposed to help you concentrate on things other than mapping.


Sometimes users install a bunch of plugins (all of them in extreme 
cases) without reading the plugin description. If you unintentionally 
install this plugin, it will be very irritating, so I agree we shouldn't 
keep it in the main plugin repository.


Paul

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[josm-dev] Java api of josm

[Frans Thamura]

Hi all

I try to create a module between my system and osm.

And i find that josm . The famous osm tool develop using java

Any idea to make me can use the engine or java api of josm in my apps

Frans Thamura
Meruvian
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[josm-dev] JOSM Plugin no_more_mapping

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi. Paul got it right, I've made this plugin just because there has to 
be an option. It even counted days without mapping. My record is a week.


As for installing without reading, I've made all the precautions 
possible. There was a big warning in plugin list, standing-out red icon 
and extensive instructions on how to disable it after it's been 
installed. I'd put more warnings if there was a way.


I guess the user that was offended didn't even try to install it. And 
based on his words it got removed along with the source code. Oh well. 
Have fun knowing that any of your plugins could be deleted because 
someone didn't like the description.



IZ

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Re: [josm-dev] JOSM Plugin no_more_mapping

[Dirk Stöcker]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2012, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Someone noticed that there is a plugin called "no more mapping" which claims 
to "stop JOSM from working forever".


The plugin has been added to SVN by user zverik and it seems to be a 
relatively harmless prank. I don't know the motivation but if the motivation 
was to demonstrate that even "bad" plugins can easily be offered by JOSM to 
the unsuspecting user then it succeeded ;)


I've seen and checked it and considered it relatively harmless :-) Not 
useful, but also not dangerous.


Ciao
--
http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)


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Re: [josm-dev] JOSM Plugin no_more_mapping

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 10/20/2012 03:51 PM, Dirk Stöcker wrote:

I've seen and checked it and considered it relatively harmless :-) Not
useful, but also not dangerous.


It is certainly not dangerous. But it only took a day on talk-de for 
someone to suggest that the next plugin is probably going to be "upload 
your bank data to fraudsters".


On the one hand, this has the positive effect of heightening people's 
awareness - you can't trust a JOSM plugin to do only good, you have to 
read the description (and ideally the source).


On the other hand, we *want* people to update frequently, instead of 
waiting until they have the time to actually read through the 
description or even source code yet again. We want them to trust us that 
we do the right thing.


There is a "market" for editors out there, and our editor, JOSM, is one 
of the "products". We are in friendly competition with other editors and 
we want to make our editor the best one, at least I think we do. 
Offering a plugin that "bricks" JOSM, even if meant as a tongue-in-cheek 
feature, makes it too easy for JOSM's detractors. I can already see the 
snarky Twitter comments such jokes might lead to - and the resulting 
image is "JOSM, the editor that stops working as soon as you hit one 
wrong button."


Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [josm-dev] JOSM Plugin no_more_mapping

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2012/10/20 Frederik Ramm :
> There is a "market" for editors out there, and our editor, JOSM, is one of
> the "products". We are in friendly competition with other editors and we
> want to make our editor the best one, at least I think we do
.
> I can already see the snarky Twitter
> comments such jokes might lead to - and the resulting image is "JOSM, the
> editor that stops working as soon as you hit one wrong button."


nice idea, here it is:
https://twitter.com/dieterdreist/status/259719381368586240
(didn't want to steal this from you, but I thought you would never
post it yourself). Following your ideas above I was remembered of the
old marketing verdict, that also bad news can be useful (raise
popularity).

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [josm-dev] JOSM Plugin no_more_mapping

[Dirk Stöcker]

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012, Frederik Ramm wrote:


 I've seen and checked it and considered it relatively harmless :-) Not
 useful, but also not dangerous.


It is certainly not dangerous. But it only took a day on talk-de for someone 
to suggest that the next plugin is probably going to be "upload your bank 
data to fraudsters".


On the one hand, this has the positive effect of heightening people's 
awareness - you can't trust a JOSM plugin to do only good, you have to read 
the description (and ideally the source).


On the other hand, we *want* people to update frequently, instead of waiting 
until they have the time to actually read through the description or even 
source code yet again. We want them to trust us that we do the right thing.


Nobody should "trust" JOSM. Users should always be aware of the fact that 
all software can be malicious. If a joke helps remembering that fact then 
it was not only funny, but helpful. Even if I would check every single 
line of new JOSM code (which I don't do) I would not be able to prevent 
bad code.


There is a "market" for editors out there, and our editor, JOSM, is one of 
the "products". We are in friendly competition with other editors and we want 
to make our editor the best one, at least I think we do. Offering a plugin 
that "bricks" JOSM, even if meant as a tongue-in-cheek feature, makes it too 
easy for JOSM's detractors. I can already see the snarky Twitter comments 
such jokes might lead to - and the resulting image is "JOSM, the editor that 
stops working as soon as you hit one wrong button."


Well. I'm relatively liberal. As long as it does no harm I tend to leave 
the developers a lot of freedom. We are still doing OpenSource here. If 
somebody expects industrial standards, then he can pay for it. In this 
case a JOSM license probably would be around 5.000 to 10.000 Euro and a 
warranty probably something like 5 times of that value a year.


Developing OpenSource should still make fun and a joke sometimes is ok I 
think :-)


I myself will not fight against such stuff, but I will also not encourage 
that.


Ciao
--
http://www.dstoecker.eu/ (PGP key available)


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Re: [josm-dev] JOSM Plugin no_more_mapping

[Paul Hartmann]

On 10/20/2012 03:35 PM, Ilya Zverev wrote:

Hi. Paul got it right, I've made this plugin just because there has to
be an option. It even counted days without mapping. My record is a week.

As for installing without reading, I've made all the precautions
possible. There was a big warning in plugin list, standing-out red icon
and extensive instructions on how to disable it after it's been
installed. I'd put more warnings if there was a way.


If all these warnings are necessary, this is a good indication, the 
plugin isn't suitable for the main repository. I'm afraid, many users 
won't get the humorous part and will just be irritated.



I guess the user that was offended didn't even try to install it. And
based on his words it got removed along with the source code.


The source code is still available in the svn history:



Oh well.
Have fun knowing that any of your plugins could be deleted because
someone didn't like the description.


I don't see that happening to the other plugins you wrote - they are 
actually useful. ;)


Paul


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[josm-dev] Ubuntu package Depends

[Stefan]

Hello,

as far I see has the josm Package from the Ubuntu repository at 
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/apt has a Depends on java 6, but it uses a 
java 7 if installed. As far this is the only program I had installed 
that depends on java 6, I could not uninstall java 6.


The Depends line:
Depends: openjdk-6-jre | sun-java6-jre

$ josm
Using /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/bin/java to execute josm.

Is java 7 Missing in the Depends line? The Depends line of the Debian 
Maintained contains openjdk-7-jre.


http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-osm/josm.git;a=blob;f=debian/control

Greetings
Stefan

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Re: [josm-dev] Ubuntu package Depends

[Paul Hartmann]

On 10/20/2012 10:07 PM, Stefan wrote:

Hello,

as far I see has the josm Package from the Ubuntu repository at
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/apt has a Depends on java 6, but it uses a
java 7 if installed. As far this is the only program I had installed
that depends on java 6, I could not uninstall java 6.

The Depends line:
Depends: openjdk-6-jre | sun-java6-jre

$ josm
Using /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/bin/java to execute josm.

Is java 7 Missing in the Depends line? The Depends line of the Debian
Maintained contains openjdk-7-jre.

http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-osm/josm.git;a=blob;f=debian/control


Thanks, should be fixed now.

Paul


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Re: [josm-dev] Ubuntu package Depends

[Stefan]

Woh,

that was fast. I could no remove java 6. Thanks a lot.

Stefan


Am 20.10.2012 22:53, schrieb Paul Hartmann:

On 10/20/2012 10:07 PM, Stefan wrote:

Hello,

as far I see has the josm Package from the Ubuntu repository at
http://josm.openstreetmap.de/apt has a Depends on java 6, but it uses a
java 7 if installed. As far this is the only program I had installed
that depends on java 6, I could not uninstall java 6.

The Depends line:
Depends: openjdk-6-jre | sun-java6-jre

$ josm
Using /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-openjdk-amd64/bin/java to execute josm.

Is java 7 Missing in the Depends line? The Depends line of the Debian
Maintained contains openjdk-7-jre.

http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-osm/josm.git;a=blob;f=debian/control 



Thanks, should be fixed now.

Paul


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Re: [josm-dev] JOSM Plugin no_more_mapping

[Russell Edwards]

My 0.02 on this storm in a teacup.

Isn't all of this one of the key points about open source software?

The source is open. Ordinary users can place a degree of trust in it 
because others in the community will review code for safety.  And that's 
exactly what we've just seen on this list. Any ordinary user who doesn't 
trust others to do this for him/her can educate him/herself and vet the 
source code personally.


Russell


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