[JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[MbahSapto]

Wah ini pasti gaji gede kalo butuh skill nya gede gan, belajar clouds ma 
cassandra dulu nih...sundul gan
--- In jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com, "don_wjy"  wrote:
>
> Hi friends, ada lowongan menarik di Singapore buat Java Developer ;)
> Gue tinggalin job descriptionnya disini. Kali-kali ada yg tertarik.
> 
> WEB DEVELOPER / FRONT-END DEVELOPER
> 
> Talented Web developers sought to design and develop rich user interfaces for 
> Java EE based high performance, distributed social networking site. We are a 
> start up company with many positions to fill. You will be working within a 
> highly talented development team with many opportunities for career 
> progression.
> 
> To be involved as a Web/Front End Developer and to experience a creative 
> environment second to none where a bright developers are respected and have a 
> real sense of ownership you MUST have:
> - Strong UI experience with JavaScript, AJAX, CSS, DHTML, cross browser 
> development.
> - Experience working with complex layouts with frames/iframes and developing 
> for IE, Firefox, Safari, Opera, Netscape
> - Solid experience and understanding of common JavaScript libraries like 
> Dojo, jQuery, YUI, GWT, ExtJS, Prototype, DWR
> - Experience with Selenium and Maven
> - Excellent written and spoken English
> 
> All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could be 
> ideal: 
> - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG
> - JavaScript development knowledge
> - Python development knowledge
> - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open source 
> platforms
> 
> JAVA DEVELOPER / TEAM LEAD
> 
> To be involved as a Server-side Java Developer with this leading online 
> gaming outfit and to experience a creative environment second to none where 
> bright developers are respected and have a real sense of ownership you MUST 
> have:
> - Strong server-side Java development experience.
> - Practical understanding of massively scalable system design (think YouTube, 
> Facebook, Google, etc)
> - Pure development - ability to get the job done without big web frameworks 
> or libraries.
> - SQL knowledge
> - High level of attention to detail
> - Flexibility - the ability to quickly prototype and then to evolve these 
> prototypes into production-quality-massively-scalable systems
> - Demonstrable record of full SDLC involvement in high-quality client-server 
> applications.
> - Excellent written and spoken English.
> 
> All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could be 
> ideal: 
> - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG
> - JavaScript development knowledge
> - Python development knowledge
> - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open source 
> platforms
> 
> If you are interested, please email your resume to Ruban (ru...@...)
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> Donny
>

[JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[MbahSapto]

Aji Mumpung: @All
1. gaji disana range nya berapa  sih?:)
2. Behaviour kerjaan nya gimana ya?kaku banget ndak ya?



--- In jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com, "don_wjy"  wrote:
>
> Hi friends, ada lowongan menarik di Singapore buat Java Developer ;)
> Gue tinggalin job descriptionnya disini. Kali-kali ada yg tertarik.
> 
> WEB DEVELOPER / FRONT-END DEVELOPER
> 
> Talented Web developers sought to design and develop rich user interfaces for 
> Java EE based high performance, distributed social networking site. We are a 
> start up company with many positions to fill. You will be working within a 
> highly talented development team with many opportunities for career 
> progression.
> 
> To be involved as a Web/Front End Developer and to experience a creative 
> environment second to none where a bright developers are respected and have a 
> real sense of ownership you MUST have:
> - Strong UI experience with JavaScript, AJAX, CSS, DHTML, cross browser 
> development.
> - Experience working with complex layouts with frames/iframes and developing 
> for IE, Firefox, Safari, Opera, Netscape
> - Solid experience and understanding of common JavaScript libraries like 
> Dojo, jQuery, YUI, GWT, ExtJS, Prototype, DWR
> - Experience with Selenium and Maven
> - Excellent written and spoken English
> 
> All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could be 
> ideal: 
> - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG
> - JavaScript development knowledge
> - Python development knowledge
> - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open source 
> platforms
> 
> JAVA DEVELOPER / TEAM LEAD
> 
> To be involved as a Server-side Java Developer with this leading online 
> gaming outfit and to experience a creative environment second to none where 
> bright developers are respected and have a real sense of ownership you MUST 
> have:
> - Strong server-side Java development experience.
> - Practical understanding of massively scalable system design (think YouTube, 
> Facebook, Google, etc)
> - Pure development - ability to get the job done without big web frameworks 
> or libraries.
> - SQL knowledge
> - High level of attention to detail
> - Flexibility - the ability to quickly prototype and then to evolve these 
> prototypes into production-quality-massively-scalable systems
> - Demonstrable record of full SDLC involvement in high-quality client-server 
> applications.
> - Excellent written and spoken English.
> 
> All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could be 
> ideal: 
> - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG
> - JavaScript development knowledge
> - Python development knowledge
> - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open source 
> platforms
> 
> If you are interested, please email your resume to Ruban (ru...@...)
> 
> Thanks!!!
> 
> Donny
>

[JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[don_wjy]

Thanks buat pertanyaan2nya. Sebelum gue jawab pertanyaan2nya.. yg pasti ada 
satu hal yg perlu diketahui: gue bukan employer-nya untuk lowongan2 ini. Gue 
cuma mengedarkan lowongan aja kali2 ada yg tertarik :D

Untuk soal pakai framework atau kagak.. gue juga kurang tau yg pastinya. Gue 
juga kaget pas liat bagian ini: "ability to get the job done without big web 
frameworks or libraries" Menurut gue sama sekali gak mungkin kalau mereka 
bener2 mau develop tanpa framework hari2 gini. Yg pasti gue bakal confirm lagi 
untuk yg posisi kedua ;) 

Kalau untuk gaji... buat junior developer biasanya 3k - 4k (buat gue harusnya 
3.5k minimal buat junior). Buat senior developer, analyst, team lead mungkin 
3.5k - 5k tergantung jumlah experience. Semuanya tergantung dari perusahaannya 
juga.

Soal kaku atau nggaknya kerjaan bisa tergantung dari byk faktor, role kita, 
projek yg kita garap, team, supervisor, project manager, etc ;)

Thanks buat pertanyaannya. Silahkan nanya2.

Best Regards,


Donny



--- In jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com, "MbahSapto"  wrote:
>
> Aji Mumpung: @All
> 1. gaji disana range nya berapa  sih?:)
> 2. Behaviour kerjaan nya gimana ya?kaku banget ndak ya?
> 
> 
> 
> --- In jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com, "don_wjy"  wrote:
> >
> > Hi friends, ada lowongan menarik di Singapore buat Java Developer ;)
> > Gue tinggalin job descriptionnya disini. Kali-kali ada yg tertarik.
> > 
> > WEB DEVELOPER / FRONT-END DEVELOPER
> > 
> > Talented Web developers sought to design and develop rich user interfaces 
> > for Java EE based high performance, distributed social networking site. We 
> > are a start up company with many positions to fill. You will be working 
> > within a highly talented development team with many opportunities for 
> > career progression.
> > 
> > To be involved as a Web/Front End Developer and to experience a creative 
> > environment second to none where a bright developers are respected and have 
> > a real sense of ownership you MUST have:
> > - Strong UI experience with JavaScript, AJAX, CSS, DHTML, cross browser 
> > development.
> > - Experience working with complex layouts with frames/iframes and 
> > developing for IE, Firefox, Safari, Opera, Netscape
> > - Solid experience and understanding of common JavaScript libraries like 
> > Dojo, jQuery, YUI, GWT, ExtJS, Prototype, DWR
> > - Experience with Selenium and Maven
> > - Excellent written and spoken English
> > 
> > All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could be 
> > ideal: 
> > - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG
> > - JavaScript development knowledge
> > - Python development knowledge
> > - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open source 
> > platforms
> > 
> > JAVA DEVELOPER / TEAM LEAD
> > 
> > To be involved as a Server-side Java Developer with this leading online 
> > gaming outfit and to experience a creative environment second to none where 
> > bright developers are respected and have a real sense of ownership you MUST 
> > have:
> > - Strong server-side Java development experience.
> > - Practical understanding of massively scalable system design (think 
> > YouTube, Facebook, Google, etc)
> > - Pure development - ability to get the job done without big web frameworks 
> > or libraries.
> > - SQL knowledge
> > - High level of attention to detail
> > - Flexibility - the ability to quickly prototype and then to evolve these 
> > prototypes into production-quality-massively-scalable systems
> > - Demonstrable record of full SDLC involvement in high-quality 
> > client-server applications.
> > - Excellent written and spoken English.
> > 
> > All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could be 
> > ideal: 
> > - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG
> > - JavaScript development knowledge
> > - Python development knowledge
> > - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open source 
> > platforms
> > 
> > If you are interested, please email your resume to Ruban (ruban@)
> > 
> > Thanks!!!
> > 
> > Donny
> >
>

[JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[nono nini]

>>Kalau untuk gaji... buat junior developer biasanya 3k - 4k (buat gue
harusnya 3.5k minimal >>buat junior). Buat senior developer, analyst,
team lead mungkin 3.5k - 5k tergantung jumlah >>experience. Semuanya
tergantung dari perusahaannya juga.

wah yang bener ni bosini sama kayak lokal donk, malah ada yang ngasih 5k 
lho untuk fresh...lha trus value added nya dimana?


__
Apakah Anda Yahoo!?
Lelah menerima spam?  Surat Yahoo! memiliki perlindungan terbaik terhadap spam  
http://id.mail.yahoo.com 

[JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[don_wjy]

LOL dalam SGD lah... ;p 

Tega banget perusahaannya nge gaji dalam rupiah ^^

K = x1000 SGD ;)

Best Regards,


Donny


--- In jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com, nono nini  wrote:
>
> >>Kalau untuk gaji... buat junior developer biasanya 3k - 4k (buat gue
> harusnya 3.5k minimal >>buat junior). Buat senior developer, analyst,
> team lead mungkin 3.5k - 5k tergantung jumlah >>experience. Semuanya
> tergantung dari perusahaannya juga.
> 
> wah yang bener ni bosini sama kayak lokal donk, malah ada yang ngasih 5k 
> lho untuk fresh...lha trus value added nya dimana?
> 
> 
> __
> Apakah Anda Yahoo!?
> Lelah menerima spam?  Surat Yahoo! memiliki perlindungan terbaik terhadap 
> spam  
> http://id.mail.yahoo.com
>

[JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[don_wjy]

Untuk posisi yg ini gw ralat dikit. Gue ganti yg bagian ini "Pure
development - ability to get the job done without big web frameworks or
libraries" karena sedikit misleading. Aplikasi yg di develop bukan
aplikasi web. Jadi gue tanya orang yg bersangkutan dan dia sendiri
kurang tau apa aja framework atau libraries yg bakal dipakai, karena dia
sendiri bukan technical guy. Yg dia butuh orang yg punya problem solving
skill yang handal di samping technical skill ^^
JAVA DEVELOPER / TEAM LEAD

To be involved as a Server-side Java Developer with this leading online
gaming
outfit and to experience a creative environment second to none where
bright
developers are respected and have a real sense of ownership you MUST
have:
- Strong server-side Java development experience.
- Practical understanding of massively scalable system design (think
YouTube,
Facebook, Google, etc)
- Excellent analytical/problem solving skills.
- SQL knowledge
- High level of attention to detail
- Flexibility - the ability to quickly prototype and then to evolve
these
prototypes into production-quality-massively-scalable systems
- Demonstrable record of full SDLC involvement in high-quality
client-server
applications.
- Excellent written and spoken English.

All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could
be ideal:
- Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG
- JavaScript development knowledge
- Python development knowledge
- Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open
source
platforms

Kalau butuh pertanyaan lebih lanjut silahkan kontak langsung ke Ruban di
ru...@compit.com.sg 
Thanks.
Donny

[JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[MbahSapto]

wah..ni ndak maen web ..tp patokan kannya FB and Tweet..back end ya?
--- In jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com, "don_wjy"  wrote:
>
> Untuk posisi yg ini gw ralat dikit. Gue ganti yg bagian ini "Pure
> development - ability to get the job done without big web frameworks or
> libraries" karena sedikit misleading. Aplikasi yg di develop bukan
> aplikasi web. Jadi gue tanya orang yg bersangkutan dan dia sendiri
> kurang tau apa aja framework atau libraries yg bakal dipakai, karena dia
> sendiri bukan technical guy. Yg dia butuh orang yg punya problem solving
> skill yang handal di samping technical skill ^^
> JAVA DEVELOPER / TEAM LEAD
> 
> To be involved as a Server-side Java Developer with this leading online
> gaming
> outfit and to experience a creative environment second to none where
> bright
> developers are respected and have a real sense of ownership you MUST
> have:
> - Strong server-side Java development experience.
> - Practical understanding of massively scalable system design (think
> YouTube,
> Facebook, Google, etc)
> - Excellent analytical/problem solving skills.
> - SQL knowledge
> - High level of attention to detail
> - Flexibility - the ability to quickly prototype and then to evolve
> these
> prototypes into production-quality-massively-scalable systems
> - Demonstrable record of full SDLC involvement in high-quality
> client-server
> applications.
> - Excellent written and spoken English.
> 
> All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could
> be ideal:
> - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG
> - JavaScript development knowledge
> - Python development knowledge
> - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open
> source
> platforms
> 
> Kalau butuh pertanyaan lebih lanjut silahkan kontak langsung ke Ruban di
> ru...@... 
> Thanks.
> Donny
>

Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Dion Azani]

Saya tertarik dengan requirement:

Pure development - ability to get the job done without big web 
frameworks or libraries.

Kontras dengan yang saya lihat di lowongan pada beberapa media, terutama media 
internet. Disana mensyaratkan juga menguasai atau berpengalaman framework 
seperti Spring, Struts dan sebagainya. Seolah-olah, apabila kita tidak 
menguasai framework tersebut, kita ketinggalan jaman, meskipun kita sudah 
berpengalaman programming Java sekian tahun.

Just intermezzo .. 


--- On Wed, 3/31/10, MbahSapto  wrote:

From: MbahSapto 
Subject: [JUG-Indonesia]  Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team 
Lead/Web Developer)
To: jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 5:57 AM







 



  



  
  
  

Wah ini pasti gaji gede kalo butuh skill nya gede gan, belajar clouds ma 
cassandra dulu nih...sundul gan

--- In jug-indonesia@ yahoogroups. com, "don_wjy"  wrote:

>

> Hi friends, ada lowongan menarik di Singapore buat Java Developer ;)

> Gue tinggalin job descriptionnya disini. Kali-kali ada yg tertarik.

> 

> WEB DEVELOPER / FRONT-END DEVELOPER

> 

> Talented Web developers sought to design and develop rich user interfaces for 
> Java EE based high performance, distributed social networking site. We are a 
> start up company with many positions to fill. You will be working within a 
> highly talented development team with many opportunities for career 
> progression.

> 

> To be involved as a Web/Front End Developer and to experience a creative 
> environment second to none where a bright developers are respected and have a 
> real sense of ownership you MUST have:

> - Strong UI experience with JavaScript, AJAX, CSS, DHTML, cross browser 
> development.

> - Experience working with complex layouts with frames/iframes and developing 
> for IE, Firefox, Safari, Opera, Netscape

> - Solid experience and understanding of common JavaScript libraries like 
> Dojo, jQuery, YUI, GWT, ExtJS, Prototype, DWR

> - Experience with Selenium and Maven

> - Excellent written and spoken English

> 

> All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could be 
> ideal: 

> - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG

> - JavaScript development knowledge

> - Python development knowledge

> - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open source 
> platforms

> 

> JAVA DEVELOPER / TEAM LEAD

> 

> To be involved as a Server-side Java Developer with this leading online 
> gaming outfit and to experience a creative environment second to none where 
> bright developers are respected and have a real sense of ownership you MUST 
> have:

> - Strong server-side Java development experience.

> - Practical understanding of massively scalable system design (think YouTube, 
> Facebook, Google, etc)

> - Pure development - ability to get the job done without big web frameworks 
> or libraries.

> - SQL knowledge

> - High level of attention to detail

> - Flexibility - the ability to quickly prototype and then to evolve these 
> prototypes into production-quality- massively- scalable systems

> - Demonstrable record of full SDLC involvement in high-quality client-server 
> applications.

> - Excellent written and spoken English.

> 

> All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could be 
> ideal: 

> - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG

> - JavaScript development knowledge

> - Python development knowledge

> - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open source 
> platforms

> 

> If you are interested, please email your resume to Ruban (ru...@...)

> 

> Thanks!!!

> 

> Donny

>






 





 



  






  

Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[dir dir]

Belum tentu Mbah... aku pikir orang singapore itu cari tenaga kerja
indonesia
karena mereka ingin dapat developer bagus dengan gaji yang lebih murah.

Coba mereka datengin orang bule dari California dgn skill set seperti itu,
mereka mau kasih gaji berapa?

Dir.


On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 5:57 PM, MbahSapto  wrote:

>
>
>
> Wah ini pasti gaji gede kalo butuh skill nya gede gan, belajar clouds ma
> cassandra dulu nih...sundul gan
>
> --- In jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com ,
> "don_wjy"  wrote:
> >
> > Hi friends, ada lowongan menarik di Singapore buat Java Developer ;)
> > Gue tinggalin job descriptionnya disini. Kali-kali ada yg tertarik.
> >
> > WEB DEVELOPER / FRONT-END DEVELOPER
> >
> > Talented Web developers sought to design and develop rich user interfaces
> for Java EE based high performance, distributed social networking site. We
> are a start up company with many positions to fill. You will be working
> within a highly talented development team with many opportunities for career
> progression.
> >
> > To be involved as a Web/Front End Developer and to experience a creative
> environment second to none where a bright developers are respected and have
> a real sense of ownership you MUST have:
> > - Strong UI experience with JavaScript, AJAX, CSS, DHTML, cross browser
> development.
> > - Experience working with complex layouts with frames/iframes and
> developing for IE, Firefox, Safari, Opera, Netscape
> > - Solid experience and understanding of common JavaScript libraries like
> Dojo, jQuery, YUI, GWT, ExtJS, Prototype, DWR
> > - Experience with Selenium and Maven
> > - Excellent written and spoken English
> >
> > All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could be
> ideal:
> > - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG
> > - JavaScript development knowledge
> > - Python development knowledge
> > - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open
> source platforms
> >
> > JAVA DEVELOPER / TEAM LEAD
> >
> > To be involved as a Server-side Java Developer with this leading online
> gaming outfit and to experience a creative environment second to none where
> bright developers are respected and have a real sense of ownership you MUST
> have:
> > - Strong server-side Java development experience.
> > - Practical understanding of massively scalable system design (think
> YouTube, Facebook, Google, etc)
> > - Pure development - ability to get the job done without big web
> frameworks or libraries.
> > - SQL knowledge
> > - High level of attention to detail
> > - Flexibility - the ability to quickly prototype and then to evolve these
> prototypes into production-quality-massively-scalable systems
> > - Demonstrable record of full SDLC involvement in high-quality
> client-server applications.
> > - Excellent written and spoken English.
> >
> > All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could be
> ideal:
> > - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG
> > - JavaScript development knowledge
> > - Python development knowledge
> > - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open
> source platforms
> >
> > If you are interested, please email your resume to Ruban (ru...@...)
> >
> > Thanks!!!
> >
> > Donny
> >
>
>  
>

Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Adelwin Handoyo]

Nah ini mindset yang gak tepat...
Tapi emang bener sih mindset nya pada begitu..
Import talent dari negara bule emang di anggap lebih mahal...
Tapi yang membuat begitu sebenernya adalah employee nya juga..
Banyakan pada mau datang ke singapore walopun hanya dengan gaji seadanya ato
secukupnya..
I must say.. This doesn¹t really help the market...
Tapi paling enggak.. Satu prinsip nya yang gue liat dari consulting company
disini... Yang tepat..
Adalah.. Skill ituh sebanding harga..
They wouldn¹t mind paying a hefty amount for the right guy with the right
knowledge, no matter where he¹s from...

Nah soal pengalaman dengan framework..
Bukan nya struts, spring, hibernate, ibatis, ejb is sort of already the
standard around here? In the development world I mean...
Justru bedanya yang gue liat disini adalah..mereka enggak ngoyo mau
implement the newest technology just to get ahead...
They do the right thing..(if you don¹t mind me saying), they don¹t implement
a technology just for the sake of technology...
They try anything to get the job dong...
Contoh nya.. Kalo requirement nya batch job.. In 3 hours..
So.. Apa pilihannya agak program nya jalan smooth and fast, and reliable..
If it¹s java.. Then be it.. Kalo pake shell and sql doang bisa as reliable,
and even faster.. So be it..
Damn I even know a guy who got paid like 7 grand a month for his knowledge
in clipper and sybase...

Now, I¹m not saying that I am *that* good.. Hahahah far from it..(luck also
played a big part :p)
I¹m not even competent enough on hibernate to help troubleshoot bugs...
But that¹s the situation..
Skills sebanding harga..
Dan juga karna singapore economy nya berkembang cepet banget in the last
decade.. So.. A lot of people are flocking in
Just my two cents...

Adelwin Handoyo
- adel...@gmail.com -
Sent from my Mac



From: dir dir 
Reply-To: JUG-Indonesia 
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:02:42 +0700
To: JUG-Indonesia 
Subject: Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java
Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)













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Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Endy Muhardin]

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Dion Azani  wrote:
>
>
>
> Saya tertarik dengan requirement:
>
> Pure development - ability to get the job done without big web frameworks or 
> libraries.
>
> Kontras dengan yang saya lihat di lowongan pada beberapa media, terutama 
> media internet. Disana mensyaratkan juga menguasai atau berpengalaman 
> framework seperti Spring, Struts dan sebagainya. Seolah-olah, apabila kita 
> tidak menguasai framework tersebut, kita ketinggalan jaman, meskipun kita 
> sudah berpengalaman programming Java sekian tahun.
>
> Just intermezzo ..
>
>

Intermezzo dari saya :
Tahukah Anda, bahwa bikin aplikasi *dengan baik* *tanpa framework*
adalah *jauh lebih sulit* daripada pakai framework?
Please note *dengan baik* :D

Mari kita ambil contoh, misalnya kita gak pakai Spring, Hibernate,
EJB, dkk dan pakai pure JDBC.
Apakah kita :
1. Melakukan koneksi database di satu tempat saja, preferably pas startup
2. Menggunakan PreparedStatement, bukannya sambung menyambung String
3. Menginstankan PreparedStatement sekali saja dan digunakan berkali2
4. Membuat interceptor untuk memanage transaction supaya tidak duplikasi
5. Mentranslate exception supaya abstraction gak bocor ke UI
6. dst

Ini baru bicara service layer dan data access layer.
Gimana kalo kita bikin aplikasi web tanpa framework?
Rasanya pasti kayak coding PHP di tahun 2001, atau coding Swing di
tahun 2010 (ya 2010 dan Swing masih belum ada f/w yang bagus ;p)

My point, kalo harus bisa bikin aplikasi yang bagus tanpa framework,
ini sama dengan harus bisa bikin framework.
Jadi, requirementnya jelas reasonable, dan dibuat oleh orang yang
sudah ampun menginterview framework-coder ;p

--
Endy Muhardin
http://endy.artivisi.com
Y! : endymuhardin
-- life learn contribute --

Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Andrian Kurniady]

Kalau negeri tetangga bayar lebih murah dari yang bule, tapi masih lebih
makmur / worthed dari negeri sendiri, pasti banyak yang minat pindah
merantau ke negeri sebelah koq. Tapi ya kalau skill nggak sebanding dengan
bulenya ya jangan komplen kalau dibayar murah... In some countries it is
somewhat illegal to offer different pay based on the country you're from
(but it is legal to offer different pay for different skill / expertise
level), and most of the multinationals won't do that anyway. The companies
pay proportionally to what they think they'll get.

Jelas company berani bayar mahal untuk sewa yang expert, kalau dia bisa
bayar expert dengan gaji 10k tapi kerjanya 5x lebih efektif dari yang
gajinya 3k... Yes, I've seen this, untuk task yang complex, there's usually
multifold productivity difference between the experienced and the
inexperienced. And the produced code differs in quality too - significantly.

Soal pengalaman dengan framework menurut saya relatif sih. Kalau
foundational knowledgenya bagus (design patterns, algorithms, coding
practice, etc.) belajar framework bukan hal yang sulit. I'd prefer to use
tools that are fit for whatever purpose I'm using it for, not limited to the
tools that I'm familiar with. Tapi kalau sewa contracting employee spesifik
untuk project ya cari yang skillsetnya cocok biar gak repot2 diajarin lagi
hehe...

-Kurniady

On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 1:09 AM, Adelwin Handoyo  wrote:

>
>
> Nah ini mindset yang gak tepat...
> Tapi emang bener sih mindset nya pada begitu..
> Import talent dari negara bule emang di anggap lebih mahal...
> Tapi yang membuat begitu sebenernya adalah employee nya juga..
> Banyakan pada mau datang ke singapore walopun hanya dengan gaji seadanya
> ato secukupnya..
> I must say.. This doesn’t really help the market...
> Tapi paling enggak.. Satu prinsip nya yang gue liat dari consulting company
> disini... Yang tepat..
> Adalah.. Skill ituh sebanding harga..
> They wouldn’t mind paying a hefty amount for the right guy with the right
> knowledge, no matter where he’s from...
>
> Nah soal pengalaman dengan framework..
> Bukan nya struts, spring, hibernate, ibatis, ejb is sort of already the
> standard around here? In the development world I mean...
> Justru bedanya yang gue liat disini adalah..mereka enggak ngoyo mau
> implement the newest technology just to get ahead...
> They do the right thing..(if you don’t mind me saying), they don’t
> implement a technology just for the sake of technology...
> They try anything to get the job dong...
> Contoh nya.. Kalo requirement nya batch job.. In 3 hours..
> So.. Apa pilihannya agak program nya jalan smooth and fast, and reliable..
> If it’s java.. Then be it.. Kalo pake shell and sql doang bisa as reliable,
> and even faster.. So be it..
> Damn I even know a guy who got paid like 7 grand a month for his knowledge
> in clipper and sybase...
>
> Now, I’m not saying that I am *that* good.. Hahahah far from it..(luck also
> played a big part :p)
> I’m not even competent enough on hibernate to help troubleshoot bugs...
> But that’s the situation..
> Skills sebanding harga..
> Dan juga karna singapore economy nya berkembang cepet banget in the last
> decade.. So.. A lot of people are flocking in
> Just my two cents...
> *
> Adelwin Handoyo
> *- adel...@gmail.com -
> Sent from my Mac
>
>
> --------------
> *From: *dir dir 
> *Reply-To: *JUG-Indonesia 
> *Date: *Wed, 31 Mar 2010 20:02:42 +0700
> *To: *JUG-Indonesia 
> *Subject: *Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java
>  Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)
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Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[dir dir]

Saya setuju dengan anda. Bikin app dgn baik tanpa framework
akan lebih sulit dibandingkan dgn framework.

Cuma begini... di singapore sebenarnya ada ngak suatu
standard baku yang bersifat umum dan public yang mengklasifikasikan
standard gaji bagi seseorang yang memiliki pengalaman dan skill
set dari range-range tertentu??

Saya berfikir agaknya saya kurang sependapat jika ada sebuah
argumen yang menyatakan kebanyakan orang indonesia mau
datang kerja ke singapore dengan gaji secukupnya atau bahkan
seadanya. saya lebih percaya bahwa penawaran gaji dari
perusahaan yang bersangkutan memang sedarimula sebelum
interview sudah dipatok "sekian".

mana ada sih orang indo yang nolak digaji sama denga bule
dari California?

Dir.


2010/3/31 Endy Muhardin 

>
>
> On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Dion Azani 
> >
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Saya tertarik dengan requirement:
> >
> > Pure development - ability to get the job done without big web frameworks
> or libraries.
> >
> > Kontras dengan yang saya lihat di lowongan pada beberapa media, terutama
> media internet. Disana mensyaratkan juga menguasai atau berpengalaman
> framework seperti Spring, Struts dan sebagainya. Seolah-olah, apabila kita
> tidak menguasai framework tersebut, kita ketinggalan jaman, meskipun kita
> sudah berpengalaman programming Java sekian tahun.
> >
> > Just intermezzo ..
> >
> >
>
> Intermezzo dari saya :
> Tahukah Anda, bahwa bikin aplikasi *dengan baik* *tanpa framework*
> adalah *jauh lebih sulit* daripada pakai framework?
> Please note *dengan baik* :D
>
> Mari kita ambil contoh, misalnya kita gak pakai Spring, Hibernate,
> EJB, dkk dan pakai pure JDBC.
> Apakah kita :
> 1. Melakukan koneksi database di satu tempat saja, preferably pas startup
> 2. Menggunakan PreparedStatement, bukannya sambung menyambung String
> 3. Menginstankan PreparedStatement sekali saja dan digunakan berkali2
> 4. Membuat interceptor untuk memanage transaction supaya tidak duplikasi
> 5. Mentranslate exception supaya abstraction gak bocor ke UI
> 6. dst
>
> Ini baru bicara service layer dan data access layer.
> Gimana kalo kita bikin aplikasi web tanpa framework?
> Rasanya pasti kayak coding PHP di tahun 2001, atau coding Swing di
> tahun 2010 (ya 2010 dan Swing masih belum ada f/w yang bagus ;p)
>
> My point, kalo harus bisa bikin aplikasi yang bagus tanpa framework,
> ini sama dengan harus bisa bikin framework.
> Jadi, requirementnya jelas reasonable, dan dibuat oleh orang yang
> sudah ampun menginterview framework-coder ;p
>
>
> --
> Endy Muhardin
> http://endy.artivisi.com
> Y! : endymuhardin
> -- life learn contribute --
>  
>

RE: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Adelwin, Adelwin]

Simple really,

Say gaji X Dollar...

Y Portion nya di pakai buat hidup sehari2...

Y Portion ini gede banget dalam rupiah...

Tapi X ini angka nya masi jauh lebih kecil dari angka pasaran...

Mungkin bisa 1000-1500 di bawah pasaran...

Tapi angka X di kurang Y... call it Z... ini khan savings per bulan...

Savings per bulan ini dalam rupiah juga tetep jauu lebih besar dari yang 
bisa di save kalo kerja di jakarta...

Kenapa begini? Simple... economy nya Singapore udah berkembang jauh dari 
Indonesia...

But... I'm not an economist... my opinion here would mean squat... just what I 
see and what I feel here...

 

One more thing...

Sapa sih yang nolak kalo di gaji sama kayak bule2 gituuu...

Gile...

Tapi biaya hidup nya juga harus di perhitungkan...

Nominal gaji di indo mungkin kecil... tapi biaya hidup juga kecil toh...

 

 

Adelwin Handoyo  |  Senior Consultant - Wholesale Bank
Standard Chartered Bank
Standard Chartered @ CBP #03-00, 7 Changi Business Park Crescent. Singapore 
(486028)
T : (65) 659 61395  | E adelwin.adel...@sc.com 

 

 



From: jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jug-indone...@yahoogroups.com] On 
Behalf Of dir dir
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 11:43 PM
To: jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java 
Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

 

  

Saya setuju dengan anda. Bikin app dgn baik tanpa framework
akan lebih sulit dibandingkan dgn framework. 

Cuma begini... di singapore sebenarnya ada ngak suatu
standard baku yang bersifat umum dan public yang mengklasifikasikan
standard gaji bagi seseorang yang memiliki pengalaman dan skill
set dari range-range tertentu??

Saya berfikir agaknya saya kurang sependapat jika ada sebuah 
argumen yang menyatakan kebanyakan orang indonesia mau
datang kerja ke singapore dengan gaji secukupnya atau bahkan
seadanya. saya lebih percaya bahwa penawaran gaji dari 
perusahaan yang bersangkutan memang sedarimula sebelum
interview sudah dipatok "sekian". 

mana ada sih orang indo yang nolak digaji sama denga bule
dari California? 

Dir.



2010/3/31 Endy Muhardin mailto:endy.muhar...@gmail.com> >

  

On Wed, Mar 31, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Dion Azani mailto:dion_azani%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
>
>
>
> Saya tertarik dengan requirement:
>
> Pure development - ability to get the job done without big web frameworks or 
> libraries.
>
> Kontras dengan yang saya lihat di lowongan pada beberapa media, terutama 
> media internet. Disana mensyaratkan juga menguasai atau berpengalaman 
> framework seperti Spring, Struts dan sebagainya. Seolah-olah, apabila kita 
> tidak menguasai framework tersebut, kita ketinggalan jaman, meskipun kita 
> sudah berpengalaman programming Java sekian tahun.
>
> Just intermezzo ..
>
>

Intermezzo dari saya :
Tahukah Anda, bahwa bikin aplikasi *dengan baik* *tanpa framework*
adalah *jauh lebih sulit* daripada pakai framework?
Please note *dengan baik* :D

Mari kita ambil contoh, misalnya kita gak pakai Spring, Hibernate,
EJB, dkk dan pakai pure JDBC.
Apakah kita :
1. Melakukan koneksi database di satu tempat saja, preferably pas startup
2. Menggunakan PreparedStatement, bukannya sambung menyambung String
3. Menginstankan PreparedStatement sekali saja dan digunakan berkali2
4. Membuat interceptor untuk memanage transaction supaya tidak duplikasi
5. Mentranslate exception supaya abstraction gak bocor ke UI
6. dst

Ini baru bicara service layer dan data access layer.
Gimana kalo kita bikin aplikasi web tanpa framework?
Rasanya pasti kayak coding PHP di tahun 2001, atau coding Swing di
tahun 2010 (ya 2010 dan Swing masih belum ada f/w yang bagus ;p)

My point, kalo harus bisa bikin aplikasi yang bagus tanpa framework,
ini sama dengan harus bisa bikin framework.
Jadi, requirementnya jelas reasonable, dan dibuat oleh orang yang
sudah ampun menginterview framework-coder ;p



--
Endy Muhardin
http://endy.artivisi.com <http://endy.artivisi.com> 
Y! : endymuhardin
-- life learn contribute --

 




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use or rely on the information contained in this email or any attachments.  If 
received in error, notify the sender immediately and delete this email and any 
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error free as the message and any attachments could be intercepted, corrupted, 
lost, delayed, incomplete or amended.  Standard Chartered PLC and its 
subsidiaries do not accept liability for damage caused by this email or any 
attachments and may monitor email traffic.

 

Standard Chartered PLC is incorporated in England with limited liability under 
company number 966425 and has its registered office at 1 Aldermanbury Square, 
London, EC2V 7SB.

 

Standard Chartered Bank ("SCB") 

Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Hamzah]

kayaknya itu maksudnya 3.500 dolar singapore deh. kalo ga salah kursnya 1
dolar = 6500 rupiah.

2010/4/8 nono nini 

>
>
> >>Kalau untuk gaji... buat junior developer biasanya 3k - 4k (buat gue
> harusnya 3.5k minimal >>buat junior). Buat senior developer, analyst, team
> lead mungkin 3.5k - 5k tergantung jumlah >>experience. Semuanya tergantung
> dari perusahaannya juga.
>
> wah yang bener ni bosini sama kayak lokal donk, malah ada yang ngasih
> 5k lho untuk fresh...lha trus value added nya dimana?
>
> __
> Apakah Anda Yahoo!?
> Lelah menerima spam? Surat Yahoo! memiliki perlindungan terbaik terhadap
> spam
> http://id.mail.yahoo.com
>
>  
>

Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Wempi Satria]

Value addednya bisa lihat patung singa yang bisa ngeluarin air dari mulutnya
:D

2010/4/8 nono nini 

>
>
> >>Kalau untuk gaji... buat junior developer biasanya 3k - 4k (buat gue
> harusnya 3.5k minimal >>buat junior). Buat senior developer, analyst, team
> lead mungkin 3.5k - 5k tergantung jumlah >>experience. Semuanya tergantung
> dari perusahaannya juga.
>
> wah yang bener ni bosini sama kayak lokal donk, malah ada yang ngasih
> 5k lho untuk fresh...lha trus value added nya dimana?
>
> __
> Apakah Anda Yahoo!?
> Lelah menerima spam? Surat Yahoo! memiliki perlindungan terbaik terhadap
> spam
> http://id.mail.yahoo.com
> 
>



-- 
http://wempi.nokspi.com

Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Alif Sulistiyanto]

errr... ini K-nya pake dollar sg kan ye? :D

SOL

2010/4/8 Wempi Satria 

>
>
> Value addednya bisa lihat patung singa yang bisa ngeluarin air dari
> mulutnya :D
>
> 2010/4/8 nono nini 
>
>>
>>
>> >>Kalau untuk gaji... buat junior developer biasanya 3k - 4k (buat gue
>> harusnya 3.5k minimal >>buat junior). Buat senior developer, analyst, team
>> lead mungkin 3.5k - 5k tergantung jumlah >>experience. Semuanya tergantung
>> dari perusahaannya juga.
>>
>>
>> wah yang bener ni bosini sama kayak lokal donk, malah ada yang ngasih
>> 5k lho untuk fresh...lha trus value added nya dimana?
>>
>> __
>> Apakah Anda Yahoo!?
>> Lelah menerima spam? Surat Yahoo! memiliki perlindungan terbaik terhadap
>> spam
>> http://id.mail.yahoo.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://wempi.nokspi.com
>
>
> 
>

Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Robby Budi S.]

Jadi luchu yach..kalau kita kerja di SG tapi gajinya tetap dalam IDR bkn SGD..

On 4/8/10, Alif Sulistiyanto  wrote:
> errr... ini K-nya pake dollar sg kan ye? :D
>
> SOL
>
> 2010/4/8 Wempi Satria 
>
>>
>>
>> Value addednya bisa lihat patung singa yang bisa ngeluarin air dari
>> mulutnya :D
>>
>> 2010/4/8 nono nini 
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >>Kalau untuk gaji... buat junior developer biasanya 3k - 4k (buat gue
>>> harusnya 3.5k minimal >>buat junior). Buat senior developer, analyst,
>>> team
>>> lead mungkin 3.5k - 5k tergantung jumlah >>experience. Semuanya
>>> tergantung
>>> dari perusahaannya juga.
>>>
>>>
>>> wah yang bener ni bosini sama kayak lokal donk, malah ada yang ngasih
>>> 5k lho untuk fresh...lha trus value added nya dimana?
>>>
>>> __
>>> Apakah Anda Yahoo!?
>>> Lelah menerima spam? Surat Yahoo! memiliki perlindungan terbaik terhadap
>>> spam
>>> http://id.mail.yahoo.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> http://wempi.nokspi.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Ishak]

Yang ndak lucu, temenku.
Jadi expat di negeri sendiri

Mantap kan?
Pengeluaran rupiah, tapi gaji SGD. :D

Warm Regards,

Ishak
--



2010/4/8 Robby Budi S. 

>
>
> Jadi luchu yach..kalau kita kerja di SG tapi gajinya tetap dalam IDR bkn
> SGD..
>
>
>

Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Daniel Baktiar]

kirain K = kepeng (mata uang majapahit jaman panji koming).

-o--o---( ^  ^ )---o--o-
And e-sau said, Behold, I am at the point to reboot: and what profit shall
this public/private key certificate do to me?
Daniel Baktiar (http://danielbaktiar.com)



2010/4/9 don_wjy 

>
>
> LOL dalam SGD lah... ;p
>
> Tega banget perusahaannya nge gaji dalam rupiah ^^
>
> K = x1000 SGD ;)
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Donny
>
> --- In jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com ,
> nono nini  wrote:
> >
> > >>Kalau untuk gaji... buat junior developer biasanya 3k - 4k (buat gue
> > harusnya 3.5k minimal >>buat junior). Buat senior developer, analyst,
> > team lead mungkin 3.5k - 5k tergantung jumlah >>experience. Semuanya
> > tergantung dari perusahaannya juga.
> >
> > wah yang bener ni bosini sama kayak lokal donk, malah ada yang ngasih
> 5k lho untuk fresh...lha trus value added nya dimana?
>
> >
> >
> > __
> > Apakah Anda Yahoo!?
> > Lelah menerima spam? Surat Yahoo! memiliki perlindungan terbaik terhadap
> spam
> > http://id.mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>  
>

Re: [JUG-Indonesia] Re: Lowongan Kerja di Singapore (Java Developer/Team Lead/Web Developer)

[Robby Budi S.]

kalau bukan back end..
apakah semacam middleware kah?

On 4/19/10, MbahSapto  wrote:
>
> wah..ni ndak maen web ..tp patokan kannya FB and Tweet..back end ya?
> --- In jug-indonesia@yahoogroups.com, "don_wjy"  wrote:
>>
>> Untuk posisi yg ini gw ralat dikit. Gue ganti yg bagian ini "Pure
>> development - ability to get the job done without big web frameworks or
>> libraries" karena sedikit misleading. Aplikasi yg di develop bukan
>> aplikasi web. Jadi gue tanya orang yg bersangkutan dan dia sendiri
>> kurang tau apa aja framework atau libraries yg bakal dipakai, karena dia
>> sendiri bukan technical guy. Yg dia butuh orang yg punya problem solving
>> skill yang handal di samping technical skill ^^
>> JAVA DEVELOPER / TEAM LEAD
>>
>> To be involved as a Server-side Java Developer with this leading online
>> gaming
>> outfit and to experience a creative environment second to none where
>> bright
>> developers are respected and have a real sense of ownership you MUST
>> have:
>> - Strong server-side Java development experience.
>> - Practical understanding of massively scalable system design (think
>> YouTube,
>> Facebook, Google, etc)
>> - Excellent analytical/problem solving skills.
>> - SQL knowledge
>> - High level of attention to detail
>> - Flexibility - the ability to quickly prototype and then to evolve
>> these
>> prototypes into production-quality-massively-scalable systems
>> - Demonstrable record of full SDLC involvement in high-quality
>> client-server
>> applications.
>> - Excellent written and spoken English.
>>
>> All the above are essential - if you have the following then you could
>> be ideal:
>> - Enthusiasm for social networking and online games or MMORPG
>> - JavaScript development knowledge
>> - Python development knowledge
>> - Linux experience and a preference for open source technology, open
>> source
>> platforms
>>
>> Kalau butuh pertanyaan lebih lanjut silahkan kontak langsung ke Ruban di
>> ru...@... 
>> Thanks.
>> Donny
>>
>
>
>