Re: JuJu, LXC, OpenStack charm problem w/Nova Quantum

2014-03-19 Thread James Page
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

On 18/03/14 18:42, brian mullan wrote:
 hey good to see you diving in g.   not sure if you read the
 whole thread but on my orig. post I mentioned I was testing ,,, in
 ubuntu 14.04.. lxc 1.x, juju and juju-gui and the new juju-bundle
 for -- openstack.
 
 On my system... everything on juju-gui eventually showed green
 except.. nova and what was indicated as quantum-gateway which
 juju-gui reported as Red due to some hook failure.
 
 Now that I think of it.. the fact that the charm referred to 
 quantum-gateway instead of the newer Neutron terminology makes
 me wonder whether this code has just not been updated lately?

It has - we just lack a good way to rename a charm and facilitate a
switch to the new charm name for existing deployments.

- -- 
James Page
Ubuntu and Debian Developer
james.p...@ubuntu.com
jamesp...@debian.org
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Re: JuJu, LXC, OpenStack charm problem w/Nova Quantum

2014-03-18 Thread brian mullan
mark..

hey good to see you diving in g.   not sure if you read the whole thread
but on my orig. post I mentioned
I was testing ,,, in ubuntu 14.04.. lxc 1.x, juju and juju-gui and the new
juju-bundle for -- openstack.

On my system... everything on juju-gui eventually showed green except..
nova and what was indicated as quantum-gateway which juju-gui reported as
Red due to some hook failure.

Now that I think of it.. the fact that the charm referred to
quantum-gateway instead of the newer Neutron terminology makes me
wonder whether this code has just not been updated lately?
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Re: JuJu, LXC, OpenStack charm problem w/Nova Quantum

2014-03-17 Thread brian mullan
John thanks for your note.   Yes I have used Juju before to deploy and use
OpenStack on KVM as well as on vmware..

*This was an experiment*.   But in OpenStack the virtualization type of the
vm is specified by the hypervisor configured for OpenStack (kvm, xen,
vmware etc).

The OpenStack site documentation does say LXC is one of the supported
options but the site doesn't say much else in regards to what does or does
not work.

If OpenStack could be made to work with LXC then for linux based
workloads...  OpenStack would be a great management system for a
multi-tenant capable LXC based cloud environment.

LXC 1.0 introduced a great deal of new capabilities to LXC including
support for fully *unprivileged* containers and a host of new backingstore
options.

Stephane Graber did a great series of blog posts introducing LXC 1.0's new
features - found
herehttps://www.stgraber.org/2013/12/20/lxc-1-0-blog-post-series/.

And yes, nested LXC does work and I've been using it for about a year now
myself.


On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 8:44 AM, John Meinel j...@arbash-meinel.com wrote:

 I believe that Nova Compute itself prefers to deploy its units as KVM.
 (So when a user connects to your Openstack deployment and asks for a
 VM, they will get a KVM backed machine).
 IIRC, you *cannot*  create a KVM container inside an LXC container. So
 you wouldn't be able to deploy Nova-compute into an LXC if it then
 wanted to deploy KVM instances. Perhaps you could do something where
 you tell Nova-compute to create LXC containers. You would then end up
 with nested LXC, which I know had some bugs in the past (If you get
 the cgroups wrong, the nested containers will refuse to run do to App
 Armor profiles, etc).

 So I'm guessing that the Openstack charms are designed to deploy onto
 more real-metal than containers, and barring that,probably KVM
 containers rather than LXC.

 John
 =:-


 On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 4:08 PM, brian mullan bmullan.m...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  OpenStack itself says it supports LXC:
  http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/config-reference/content/lxc.html
 
  and although a bit dated this OpenStack doc shows (under Ubuntu Natty)...
  some config setup info:
 
  https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/LXC
 
  My orig post had said 2 OpenStack services were left in Red State with
  some sort of message about problem with hooks.
 
  The two were:
 
  nova-compute
  quantum-gateway
 
  I can kind of understand the quantum-gateway
  due to lxc/host networking being a bit different.
 
  But I just wasn't comfortable that the nova-compute part of the charm
 had a
  problem because that is just for compute resources.
  The storage services of OpenStack in the Charm had already gone into a
  green state.
 
  I would like to suggest that there may be a bug in the JuJu OpenStack
  Charm's hooks related either/both of the above 2 services
  when used with LXC (re local provider).
 
  Now as I have not tried to deploy that charm to say Amazon... I guess  I
  could be jumping the gun and perhaps this problem
  exists w/other environments?
 
 
 
  On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Adam Stokes adam.sto...@ubuntu.com
 wrote:
 
  I also think that nova and lxc do not mingle well either. I've
  typically deployed nova in a kvm instance instead
 
  On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:26 PM, John Meinel j...@arbash-meinel.com
  wrote:
   I'm pretty sure Quantum can't be deployed in LXC because it needs
 direct
   access to block devices. I could be wrong.
  
   John
   =:-
  
   On Mar 15, 2014 2:08 PM, brian mullan bmullan.m...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  
   I thought I'd try using some of the cool new stuff.. so with latest
   lxc
   1.0 JuJu  JuJu-gui installed I decided to look at JuJu Bundles.
  
   I set my environment to local and started the OpenStack bundle.
  
   Everything eventually turns green except:
  
   Nova-Compute
   Quantum-Gateway
  
   Which stay in a red state and provide a message that the charm had
   failed
   hooks.
  
   Just out of curiousity has anyone else tried to do this yet ?
  
   I believe the problem is related to how openstack requires addressing
   setup for nova ( probably quantum) but not sure how to troubleshoot
   the
   charm further myself.
  
   Thanks
  
   Brian Mullan
   Raleigh NC
  
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RE: JuJu, LXC, OpenStack charm problem w/Nova Quantum

2014-03-17 Thread Sameer Zeidat
I'm curious about what the juju logs showed for those charms that failed 
(stayed red per the OP).

Personally, and not specific to juju, I tried Havana on LXC a couple of months 
ago. It worked well except for Neutron. The moment it starts the whole machine 
froze. I noticed it happens around when its supposed to create the bridges. I 
thoght it had to do with trying to bridge virtual interfaces that are already 
bridged outside LXC, but didn't spend any time to troubleshoot.

-Original Message-
From: brian mullan bmullan.m...@gmail.com
Sent: ‎17/‎03/‎2014 11:30 PM
To: James Page james.p...@ubuntu.com
Cc: juju juju@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: JuJu, LXC, OpenStack charm problem w/Nova  Quantum

great information.. thanks James!




On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 8:21 AM, James Page james.p...@ubuntu.com wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Hi Brian

I responded to your original mail as well - but also detailing a bit
more here.

On 17/03/14 12:09, brian mullan wrote:
[...]

 If OpenStack could be made to work with LXC then for linux based
 workloads...  OpenStack would be a great management system for a
 multi-tenant capable LXC based cloud environment.

 LXC 1.0 introduced a great deal of new capabilities to LXC

 including support for fully *unprivileged* containers and a host of

 new backingstore options.

 Stephane Graber did a great series of blog posts introducing LXC
 1.0's new features - found here

 https://www.stgraber.org/2013/12/20/lxc-1-0-blog-post-series/.


 And yes, nested LXC does work and I've been using it for about a
 year now myself.


Aside from the problems I detailed in my first response about running
nova-compute and quantum-gateway in LXC containers, this configuration
is 100% supported by the OpenStack charms; infact this was one of the
configuration options that Mark Shuttleworth demo'ed live on-stage at
the OpenStack Summit in Hong Kong last November.

The nova-compute charm has a virt-type configuration option that
defaults to kvm; this can be switch to lxc (amongst other things).
Neutron works fine with LXC containers as the integration is by
libvirt which makes the networking part exactly the same as with KVM.

You could run this nested on a KVM based cloud or directly on
hardware; however out-of-the box you can't run this LXC in LXC.

- --
James Page
Ubuntu and Debian Developer
james.p...@ubuntu.com
jamesp...@debian.org

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Re: JuJu, LXC, OpenStack charm problem w/Nova Quantum

2014-03-17 Thread Tim Fall
Just to clear up a little confusion. OpenStack does support LXC as a “compute 
hypervisor” (i.e. it can be used instead of kvm, qemu, esxi, etc.). Be sure to 
check out the Compute Hypervisor Support Matrix for what features are supported 
on each (and whether they’ll be removed in the future).

Juju deployment on LXC as the “provider” is a different case, and likely fails 
for the reasons mentioned below.

If you were really itching to test the new JuJu features, you could deploy an 
OpenStack all-in-one on a single box (currently no existing easy way to do this 
with Ubuntu, equivalent to Packstack), then deploy JuJu with the “OpenStack” 
provider, and finally deploy another OpenStack (“OpenStack on OpenStack” or 
“Triple O”) using the JuJu charms. It’s really sucks, but it can work.

-Tim

On Mar 17, 2014, at 1:05 PM, Sebastian sebas5...@gmail.com wrote:

 Would love to see OpenStack running in my local dev environment, but also I 
 could use it in a dedicated server, to even use it with a juju openstack env.
 
 So, today we can't deploy OpenStack with all lxc, right? (sorry if thats the 
 wrong question, trying to catch up)
 
 
 
 Abs,
 Sebas.
 
 
 
 2014-03-17 16:50 GMT-03:00 Kapil Thangavelu kapil.thangav...@canonical.com:
 
 
 
 On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Tim Penhey tim.pen...@canonical.com wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 On 18/03/14 05:35, Matt Rae wrote:
  On Mon, Mar 17, 2014 at 7:04 AM, James Page james.p...@ubuntu.com
  It would be interesting to know what are the blockers for this to
  work. Using the local provider has been very convenient and it
  would be nice to be able to deploy openstack without maas.
 
  Would switching to nova-network be a workaround for neutron? Could
  nova-compute use the virt-type=lxc to get around the hypervisor
  issues?
 
 Just idly wondering, but what are the minimum kvm requirements for
 nova-compute and quantum-gateway?
 
 hardware supports nested virt on compute (if using kvm on nova-compute lxc 
 should work okay), quantum is a bit of a mystery.
 
 Currently the juju local provider has just one container factory (used
 for creating machines). It is just a simple manner of code to make it
 work with both kvm and lxc.
 
 i noticed that limitation with the local provider, i think mixed container 
 usage would help, we would need to direct both to the same bridge. not sure 
 if that the will resolve all the issues.
 
  Did you realize that you can use the
 local provider configured to use kvm containers?
 
  
 /me nods
 
 kvm machine per openstack instance are a bit overkill, hulk smash/deploy-to 
 would help though but needs a bundle/deployer config with co-location for 
 folks to use.
  
 Now I've not put too much thought into this yet, and we don't have any
 time before 14.04, but could be an interesting spike to show something
 off at ODS.
 
 
 i was thinking it would be nice for 14.10 to have a dev/demo on one machine 
 to prod workflow on openstack. tbd, there are a few other projects working on 
 the same.
  
 We could have some bundle that described an openstack local deployment
 where you could go 'juju quickstart local-openstack' and have a
 complete openstack deployment on your laptop in a combination of lxc
 and kvm containers.
 
 Thoughts?
 
 openstack as dev or demo on local sounds awesome.
 
 -k
 
  
 
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Re: JuJu, LXC, OpenStack charm problem w/Nova Quantum

2014-03-17 Thread brian mullan
Here are a couple of scenario's for openstack/lxc that I think are
interesting.

ARM x64 cpu are now available and use 1/8th the power of an intel cpu ...
given its hard to compare apples to oranges here.

Ubuntu  LXC can both be used on ARM x64 systems.

For today's DataCenters the biggest constraint  expense is power.

I am thinking that running Linux based work-loads in LXC virtual machines
may, combined ARM x64 cpu, actually perform better than intel cpu w/hw
virtualization (kvm, vmware et al) at a much lower power utilization.

If you are a Cloud SP that can be a big deal.

But what if we looked at a end goal and worked backward using some
assumptions::

   - Linux work-loads only
   - JuJu and JuJu-gui... provide seamless cloud, server  application
   deployment, scaling and network connectivity management.
   - LXC is a choice for the virtualizaton
   - SDN - OVS (openvswitch), ovsdb and VxLAN supported
   - OpenStack, Horizon Gui, Neutron/Quantum networking (via plugins), etc
   to allow utilization of all of the above

Networking could become really interesting here.   Implementation of VxLAN
support enables a physical server to become a multi-tenant, LXC based
cloud with point-to-point interconnect to any other like
machines/clusters/clouds as a VTEP (Virtual Tunnel End-Point).

The beauty of it is that you can have Multiple VTEPs for a single LXC
host Server.

Each VTEP *could* be the VxLAN network connection for a different
tenant's cloud of lxc based applications managed by Nova on that server.

This has a good overview of OpenStack over VxLAN:

http://www.openstack.org/assets/presentation-media/OpenStackOverVxlan.pdf

Staying focused on my original post regarding the possibilities *if you
could* use OpenStack to manage an LXC based cloud interconnected via an
SDN VxLAN network setup.

The above URL describes how to configure VxLAN via OpenStack using Neutron
(sorry I realized in prev email's I was still calling it Quantum).
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Re: JuJu, LXC, OpenStack charm problem w/Nova Quantum

2014-03-16 Thread brian mullan
OpenStack itself says it supports LXC:
http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/config-reference/content/lxc.html

and although a bit dated this OpenStack doc shows (under Ubuntu Natty)...
some config setup info:

https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/LXC

My orig post had said 2 OpenStack services were left in Red State with
some sort of message about problem with hooks.

The two were:

   - nova-compute
   - quantum-gateway

I can kind of understand the quantum-gateway
due to lxc/host networking being a bit different.

But I just wasn't comfortable that the *nova-compute* part of the charm had
a problem because that is just for compute resources.
The storage services of OpenStack in the Charm had already gone into a
green state.

I would like to suggest that there may be a bug in the JuJu OpenStack
Charm's hooks related either/both of the above 2 services
when used with LXC (re local provider).

Now as I have not tried to deploy that charm to say Amazon... I guess  I
could be jumping the gun and perhaps this problem
exists w/other environments?



On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Adam Stokes adam.sto...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 I also think that nova and lxc do not mingle well either. I've
 typically deployed nova in a kvm instance instead

 On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:26 PM, John Meinel j...@arbash-meinel.com
 wrote:
  I'm pretty sure Quantum can't be deployed in LXC because it needs direct
  access to block devices. I could be wrong.
 
  John
  =:-
 
  On Mar 15, 2014 2:08 PM, brian mullan bmullan.m...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I thought I'd try using some of the cool new stuff.. so with latest
 lxc
  1.0 JuJu  JuJu-gui installed I decided to look at JuJu Bundles.
 
  I set my environment to local and started the OpenStack bundle.
 
  Everything eventually turns green except:
 
  Nova-Compute
  Quantum-Gateway
 
  Which stay in a red state and provide a message that the charm had
 failed
  hooks.
 
  Just out of curiousity has anyone else tried to do this yet ?
 
  I believe the problem is related to how openstack requires addressing
  setup for nova ( probably quantum) but not sure how to troubleshoot the
  charm further myself.
 
  Thanks
 
  Brian Mullan
  Raleigh NC
 
  --
  Juju mailing list
  Juju@lists.ubuntu.com
  Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
  https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/juju
 
 
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 --
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Re: JuJu, LXC, OpenStack charm problem w/Nova Quantum

2014-03-16 Thread John Meinel
I believe that Nova Compute itself prefers to deploy its units as KVM.
(So when a user connects to your Openstack deployment and asks for a
VM, they will get a KVM backed machine).
IIRC, you *cannot*  create a KVM container inside an LXC container. So
you wouldn't be able to deploy Nova-compute into an LXC if it then
wanted to deploy KVM instances. Perhaps you could do something where
you tell Nova-compute to create LXC containers. You would then end up
with nested LXC, which I know had some bugs in the past (If you get
the cgroups wrong, the nested containers will refuse to run do to App
Armor profiles, etc).

So I'm guessing that the Openstack charms are designed to deploy onto
more real-metal than containers, and barring that,probably KVM
containers rather than LXC.

John
=:-


On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 4:08 PM, brian mullan bmullan.m...@gmail.com wrote:
 OpenStack itself says it supports LXC:
 http://docs.openstack.org/trunk/config-reference/content/lxc.html

 and although a bit dated this OpenStack doc shows (under Ubuntu Natty)...
 some config setup info:

 https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/LXC

 My orig post had said 2 OpenStack services were left in Red State with
 some sort of message about problem with hooks.

 The two were:

 nova-compute
 quantum-gateway

 I can kind of understand the quantum-gateway
 due to lxc/host networking being a bit different.

 But I just wasn't comfortable that the nova-compute part of the charm had a
 problem because that is just for compute resources.
 The storage services of OpenStack in the Charm had already gone into a
 green state.

 I would like to suggest that there may be a bug in the JuJu OpenStack
 Charm's hooks related either/both of the above 2 services
 when used with LXC (re local provider).

 Now as I have not tried to deploy that charm to say Amazon... I guess  I
 could be jumping the gun and perhaps this problem
 exists w/other environments?



 On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Adam Stokes adam.sto...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 I also think that nova and lxc do not mingle well either. I've
 typically deployed nova in a kvm instance instead

 On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:26 PM, John Meinel j...@arbash-meinel.com
 wrote:
  I'm pretty sure Quantum can't be deployed in LXC because it needs direct
  access to block devices. I could be wrong.
 
  John
  =:-
 
  On Mar 15, 2014 2:08 PM, brian mullan bmullan.m...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I thought I'd try using some of the cool new stuff.. so with latest
  lxc
  1.0 JuJu  JuJu-gui installed I decided to look at JuJu Bundles.
 
  I set my environment to local and started the OpenStack bundle.
 
  Everything eventually turns green except:
 
  Nova-Compute
  Quantum-Gateway
 
  Which stay in a red state and provide a message that the charm had
  failed
  hooks.
 
  Just out of curiousity has anyone else tried to do this yet ?
 
  I believe the problem is related to how openstack requires addressing
  setup for nova ( probably quantum) but not sure how to troubleshoot
  the
  charm further myself.
 
  Thanks
 
  Brian Mullan
  Raleigh NC
 
  --
  Juju mailing list
  Juju@lists.ubuntu.com
  Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
  https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/juju
 
 
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Re: JuJu, LXC, OpenStack charm problem w/Nova Quantum

2014-03-15 Thread John Meinel
I'm pretty sure Quantum can't be deployed in LXC because it needs direct
access to block devices. I could be wrong.

John
=:-
On Mar 15, 2014 2:08 PM, brian mullan bmullan.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 I thought I'd try using some of the cool new stuff.. so with latest lxc
 1.0 JuJu  JuJu-gui installed I decided to look at JuJu Bundles.

 I set my environment to local and started the OpenStack bundle.

 Everything eventually turns green except:

 Nova-Compute
 Quantum-Gateway

 Which stay in a red state and provide a message that the charm had failed
 hooks.

 Just out of curiousity has anyone else tried to do this yet ?

 I believe the problem is related to how openstack requires addressing
 setup for nova ( probably quantum) but not sure how to troubleshoot the
 charm further myself.

 Thanks

 Brian Mullan
 Raleigh NC

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Re: JuJu, LXC, OpenStack charm problem w/Nova Quantum

2014-03-15 Thread Adam Stokes
I also think that nova and lxc do not mingle well either. I've
typically deployed nova in a kvm instance instead

On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:26 PM, John Meinel j...@arbash-meinel.com wrote:
 I'm pretty sure Quantum can't be deployed in LXC because it needs direct
 access to block devices. I could be wrong.

 John
 =:-

 On Mar 15, 2014 2:08 PM, brian mullan bmullan.m...@gmail.com wrote:

 I thought I'd try using some of the cool new stuff.. so with latest lxc
 1.0 JuJu  JuJu-gui installed I decided to look at JuJu Bundles.

 I set my environment to local and started the OpenStack bundle.

 Everything eventually turns green except:

 Nova-Compute
 Quantum-Gateway

 Which stay in a red state and provide a message that the charm had failed
 hooks.

 Just out of curiousity has anyone else tried to do this yet ?

 I believe the problem is related to how openstack requires addressing
 setup for nova ( probably quantum) but not sure how to troubleshoot the
 charm further myself.

 Thanks

 Brian Mullan
 Raleigh NC

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[ Adam Stokes ]

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